Hi All, So I go to help my buddy clear cedars that he has removed with a back hoe - he is on his dads 1835 Case diesel - Me on my Volvo SS - when he motions over to me, he has been pushing trees for about 30 minutes - he says hey this things running funny, I hadn't shut mine off so couldn't really hear the engine, I said well it is smoking a lil more than usual I think - I could smell engine oil it seemed in the exhaust when all of a sudden it sounded like a bomb went off - the top of the engine had a huge puff of smoke come out and it blew out the valve cover gaskets on both sides like some giant explosion inside the engine, it will not turn over now - I don't think that is a good sign, I have never heard what was about 5 x that of a backfire in a gas engine. Any ideas what the heck happened, are those lil diesel engines known for that kind of a problem? We checking the engine oil and it showed about a quart low. The radiator was not terribly hot I could actually keep my hand on it for at least 30 seconds. Thanks in advance, R
Could be a lot of things... Have you tried rotating the crank, by hand, 360º?
That would be the first thing I'd try. However from the description of the failure I would not be holding out too much hope. Just wild guessing here any chance someone grabbed the wrong fuel can and dumped gas into it, assuming it is a diesel?
thanks guys, we didn't have any tools out in the field that would turn the crank - I had to keep working to get our project done then later we backed the trailer off into a runoff ditch after dragging the 1835 to a place we could get his truck/trailer with his white 105, my SS would not pull it in the slick grass/dirt. Its not entirely impossible that someone accidently put some gas in it I suppose but his dad is usually the one that puts fuel in it and they have had it at least 5 yrs. and sorry yes, it is a diesel - and I mean to say, I have never heard an explosion like that out of a diesel engine, almost like a backfire on steroids but it was internal to the engine.
No knocking, skipping or anything.. just a big boom?? Wonder if it lost a tip on the injector{black smoke} & blew the valve cover?? I guess we could guess for "pages".. so nuthin left to do but pull the head & have a look..
I will say as soon as he hit the key to crank it, it locked the starter and yes I think it will have to be disassembled to find more info just didn't know if these things were prone to some failure that might sound like this
The 188d engine is pretty reliable.. never heard one "blow-up" .. LOTS of run-away's due to inj. pump neglect {flex ring} but never a blow-up.. I'm real interested in whatcha find.. sorry for your troubles.. good luck w/ the repair.
We had a few 188D's in skid steers and small crane and an old tractor with a broom on it at the shop try as we could never had one out right fail. In 30+ years thing I rebuilt maybe two out of all the ones we had and those were beat hard before we ever got hold of them. I would rate them as one of the toughest small diesels I have seen. So will be very interested to see what the problem is with yours.
im trying to get more info from my buddy who was driving it - I was just sitting on my machine about 10 feet away reading his lips and looking at smoke due the the noise of my machine so didn't have time to even shut mine down to listen I was looking square at the thing when I saw/heard the explosion - im like someone said on here, thinking it is possibly gas in the fuel, my buddies dad is old and sometimes forgets which can he filled with what at the station last time he went. = that would explain the excessive smoke, my cousin put gasoline in their diesel garden tractor and it basically got hot and locked up - had to be torn down and rebuilt - I know you can get by with a little gasoline in diesel to thin it in the winter but im thinking his might have been more like 50/50 or who knows.........not sure what that would do to a diesel engine but im sure not good things.
ok so my buddy says it was WOT, seemed to be a little numb on power noticed smoke, and then he motioned to me..........he said it was running same WOT, never slowed never sped up engine rpm just hear a slight tick and then POW!!! the explosion and died. then engine did not reduce rpm and stop it was an instant stop with the explosion.
My guess is>> flex ring failure/contamination caused the Low Power. The TICK was the pump locking up & drive shaft breaking & the POW was the front timing gears jumping..
Blowing the valve cover gaskets out sounds like an internal mechanical failure, of the head removal requiring sort.
ok well - the SS is about 80 miles from us at my buddys dads, his dad was supposed to be back today and possibly try to look at turning crank or other such things.........not sure how much he will be able to do short trying the battery again. but he might be able to get his arm down in there and see if it moves at all. he is 82 or 84 I cant remember but I know he will want to fiddle with it - im just trying to figure out how something could snort up thru the engine cavity and burst air/compression out from under the valve covers?
May have a hole in a piston and the crankcase loaded up with unburned fuel. Sad event, but interesting.
I did pull the dipstick and it had oil, about 1 qt low I presume it was on the low/add line - the radiator was not hot to the touch I could lay my hand on it so either it didn't have water in it or it was just not overly hot. don't thing the crankcase is flooded with fuel due to dipstick reading
Yes hope this one does get worked on and not just pushed aside. Not saying it's not possible but am having a little problem thinking of diesel fuel in crankcase causing an explosion. Now if it turned out that gasoline had got into the fuel tank in error and that caused a piston to hole then I could see a gas explosion Not trying to say that is the only possible cause, just thinking off the top of my head while typing.
I was thinking more like maybe vaporized fuel. Not liquid fuel.
well just form the violence of the explosion and what I know from being around things, I do not think its going to be good news, most likely going to have to require rebuild/teardown/disassembly, something like that - or maybe its easier to find a used unit to swap but with the age not sure what would be easy to find......its not the greatest of machines but......I think he only paid like 5500 for it a couple yrs ago
my buddies dad got it to turn over - it doesn't make any horrible noises so he says - doesn't start so the theory here around pump/shaft/etc....might be part of it - when asked about the fuel filter he said no idea where its at never have changed it since I bought it.........I think hes had it 5 or 6 yrs - I think he plans to start with that - if that thing isn't hurt after the explosion I would be more than surprised - I just cant imagine something that violent and nothing broken - im going with you guys and the pump thing at this point - or possibly gas in with the diesel - more to come as they dig deeper
Searcyfarms, One has to love the optimism of some people. I have to agree with you, from your description of the "Big Bang" event a fuel filter change is not that likely to turn this thing into a smooth running machine! Thanks for the update I and I'm sure other are interested in what the final story is to this one. Any chance you can convince him to sell it to me for scrap iron price and bring it to Syracuse NY??? I promise to post lots of pictures of the rebuild process. Just need to figure out how to hide it from Diane! Oh that skid steer? You didn't notice that sitting in the back of the shed for the last 17 years?
oh boy............well I have no clue what they are going to do with it just yet - my guess is their grandson, my buddies boy will tear into it - he works at a case/ih dealership and is in the middle of diesel mechanic school so he just might get interested in the old thing - I was just out in your country last fall, matter of fact I think I drove right thru Syracuse - I bought a skid steer out in newbury port mass - I think it was north of boston a lil ways almost to new Hampshire a mile from the ocean, boy was that a pretty trip. being a Midwest flatlander I was pleasantly surprised as was my wife at the wonderful country out there - it was just beautiful - we want to go back for sure, we stopped thru Niagara falls on the US side - it was a haul, left on a weds nite got back on a sun nite. I think it was over 3000 miles if I remember right. It was a great excuse to see Niagara falls!!!! Buy a skid steer see the falls LOL
the latest...............my buddies dad has decided that the battery is bad and it needs replaced LOL - they had a family reunion this weekend so no work on it - his dad plans to run a compression check on it once he gets the battery replaced and can spin the engine adequately - baby steps ;-)
Well sure a weak battery often causes the valve cover to blow off a diesel! Just joking! I know how it is dealing with some people. Keep us in the loop will be interesting I'm sure!
LOL yea so funny - I told my buddy last night - " ya know, I think its going to take more than a battery to fix it - just saying " he said yea dad wants to get a fresh battery in it, the old one wont spin it good enough to do a compression check so gotta do that first - hes got his work cut out for him - my buddy tried to get his dad to just take it to his sons shop but hes holding out he can figure it out.
ok so heres the latest, bless his heart, my buddies dad got a new battery and said well.........it STILL doesn't want to turn over very good - it turns really slow............so he has decided he is going to unhook the hydro pump/motors try that and if that yields nothing he is pulling the motor - so i said......some how I knew after that explosion that motor was going to have to come out!!!! - disassembly should commence around thanksgiving if I know his dad and might be back together by next spring LOL - that is of course if we help him on the weekends when we are up at the farm - ;-)
Thanks for the update. We know you are just reporting from the sidelines so don't think any comments are aimed at you. I hope you understand that any laughing is us laughing with you and not at you! Once disassembly starts pictures would add to the story a lot! Just be a pal and when the disassembly gets going to let us know so we can order in a supply of popcorn and barley soda!
yea I will get some pix one of these days - I think I might be heading up there next weekend if all holds together I need to get to whacking on some CRP and some disking to prep for burns
Ok everyone I finally have news....................so since I last replied, the battery, the alternator, the starter, have all been removed/tested - battery was bad, alternator fine, starter fine - reinstalled - engine was able to be turned over by hand so my buddies dad just put it all back together and Vroooooooom it started right up - WTHeck!!! while it doesn't make any strange noises and he still has one weak drive motor it runs. BUT - the radiator has a large hole in the center of it which I am guessing was caused by pressure when the thing backfired - still amiss as to what could have caused the backfire. I am going to be up there in a couple weeks and I am going to suck some fuel out and put it in a glass jar so I can be satisfied with what is going on in the fuel. They haven't done that and I haven't been able to convince him to do it LOL. Maybe now that its running he will get that checked off his list. So it sounds like a radiator repair is in order for starters but I wonder what is going to happen once it gets warm and starts building pressure. More to come obviously and I do not think this is the end of this story. Still have to get the valve cover gasket replaced/repaired as its blown out all the way around it. So obviously there was violent pressure that went through the engine.
WOW!!! That's UN-REAL.. I had an old Plymouth Fury along time ago that spun a rod brg.. Slapped like it was keeping time.. I drove it another 50 miles at hiway speeds & parked it.. Came back out afew weeks later, turned the key & she purred like a kitten.. reved it up & it idles for afew more seconds & THEN started keepin a beat.. a LOUD beat.. lol
yea it will be interesting to see what happens when the radiator gets replaced/repaired and pressurized and the motor comes up to temp and things get put under a load - again I think there is going to be way more to this story before its over -