serial# 94n8370-----(3n25287?)----arrangment 3p7734----(4n880?) engine-3306.......haven't used the tractor in about a year. Went to check all the fluids before using it and found both final drives to be overflowing. What could be the cause?. I bet I let 1 gallon flow out of the left side before I replaced the check plug.( it would keep flowing if I would let it) Right side was milky I assume from pressure washing and rain getting in the vent. I plan to replace the right side fluids. It's worth mentioning the model does have a winch. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated... where do I start?
Probably leaking from the steering clutch housing through the pinion seal into the final drive at least on the left side. That would not account for the water in the right side though.
i'm not as concerned with the water on the right side. I believe the only way it could be contaminated is by condensation or rain/ pressure washing. I plan to check the vent and replace that fluid. However both sides are overflowing . If the pinion seal was the cause wouldn't it be low on trans fluid? Isn't the steering clutches serviced within the trans fluid? The only fluid which is routinely low is the hydraulic fluid. I've always assumed the hydraulic was leaking from the tank seal. You can see a leak but it was way more cost effective to continue replacing the fluid than remove the cab and tank to replace the seal.
A failed hydraulic pump seal would allow hydraulic fluid to migrate to the transmission/steering clutch compartments. Still would have to get by the pinion seals. That's about the only way I can think of that would get it there.
Not uncommon, we used to have it happen on D8H's, never worried to much about it unless there was signs of metal in the final filter otherwise we would run it until teardown for another reason.
Our finals were overfilling from the bevel gear compartment on our old D6C a couple of years ago & when we pulled it apart to repair some steering clutch issues we changed out the pinion seals at that time & it corrected the problem for us. Finals just stay at the full mark now & do not overflow at all. HeavyEquipmentForums
Yair . . . First thing I'd do is check drain plug magnets. Others will know but I thought transmission was separate to clutches . . . but I could be confusing my Allis's and my Cats. Cheers.
Well, I have to replace the right side fluid anyway from water contamination so I will check the magnets then. I'm hearing from ya'll that it's not worth worrying about until it's time to rebuild. Correct? My problem is I'm too OCD for an old machine. The leaks and grease drives me crazy. I try to clean the grease off and get water into everything which cost me more money in fluids. But hey all the fluids have been changed twice in about 100 hrs. I hate to sell the machine but not running it is worse thing possible. It's always a joy to run and have on hand but I'm almost finished clearing the farm. Anyone have an idea how much it's worth? My uncle sold it to me and he has had it since the 80s.
Does your machine have a winch or a ripper?
Winch
I think you will find the oil in the winch contaminated with water and overfull. They like to leak on the top plate just forward of the drum. There is only a lip seal on the input shaft and the proper oil level is lower than that shaft. Overfill the winch and the contaminated oil runs into the bevel gear case. Let us know what you find.
What's the proper oil for the winch and how much? My operators manual is generic and doesn't have winch recommendations. I'll change that too.
If that's the Hyster D7K winch it takes 20 gallons SAE10 and current spec would be TDTO (TO-4)
this is a tip of the iceberg thingy..
Yair . . . Yup, the can of worms . . . hope he has clean magnets. Cheers.
Ok . What is a tip of the iceberg and opening a can of worms mean? I was thinking everything was about average for this year of machine . Change fluids wait for serious mech failure then replace the piñon seals. Did I hear something different? Ya'll saying it's something more serious ?
Yair . . . rhudson1. Not necessarily mate. However in my experience leaking pinion seals often mean pinion bearings are on their way out. When that happens and the the pinion starts running out of alignment it starts to shed metal very quickly. I don't think in thirty odd years of running large conventional crawlers I ever went in there and just replaced the seals, it's a big job so you may as well do the business while you're in there. If there is just a metal sludge on the final drive magnets and no slivers or large flakes you should be good to go. I would just keep an eye on fluid levels . . . it's been a long time and there were a lot of different tractors but I think it may have been a D7 where the oil found it's own level but the final drives were over full, never seemed to hurt. Cheers.
Thank you... I assume the magnets on the final drive are actually the drain plug like some small engines . Correct ? So when I change the final fluids I will find the metal if any on the actual drain plug? I picture the inside of the final drive as one large drum like the rear diff on a normal car or truck.
Yair . . . Correct. Magnets should be part of the drain plug. I used to check them every service, had a spare plug to whack in there and a frypan that fitted under to catch the first oil and the chips. Its messy but always best to catch failures early. One of our problems was if an operator got tangled in the chain, it often went unreported and could result in shed teeth. Cheers.
You're reading my mind I was trying to measure the drain plug and fill plug so I could go to the local hardware store and purchase a temporary which would give me time to pull out the original pop a temp one in and clean the magnet on the drain plug then put the original back in. 2" or 2 1/2". If no metal found I could just top off the left side. Then I've tried to figure a way to capture all the oil on the right side after a quick sample. Half a 25 gallon drum won't fit under the final...
What oil services the bevel gears? How does winch leak into bevel gears? Bevel gears serviced with final drives or trans oil?
Transmission oil also handles the bevel gears. As I recall a D8 might hold 30 gallons in the transmission and about 5 gallons in each final. The winch will hold somewhere around 10 gallon as I recall. I've seen plenty of final drives over full on D6 through D9 and they ran a long time that way. I've also pulled lots of steel out of the bottom of a final drive will no ill affects while it was in my charge. The time to start tearing things apart is when steering clutches and brakes start giving problems, sprocket seals start leaking or one side locks up.
Good news! I would have never known of the problem if I wouldn't have checked the finals. All runs fine... any idea of the final Plug sizes ? 2 or 2 1/2? I plan to guickly change the lower plugs while I clean the magnets without losing all the fluid. Also have to rig an upper filler plug with a hose to allow the fluid to overflow in a bucket instead of the ground until it's back to a normal level. Thanks to all in advance.
Magnetic drain plug part #2K0744 is a 1" x 11-1/2 tpi pipe thread with 1/2" square head.
Thanks old magnet . I'll pick up one.
here is what I meant. it was explained to me by a very well experienced cat mechanic I had hired to r&r a final drive. he said if a seal is out, the bearings are already gone causing shaft looseness which then takes out the seal. he also said, after finding about everything in that final was shot, that the other side would most likely look exactly like it. (haven't found out yet, but I am sure I will) what I am getting at is you are dealing with a tractor that has enough hours on it that just about everything you tear down will probably need new parts to go back. this is why you should never pay much for these things up front!! it is also why so many decent machines end up in the salvage yard.
I am No expert but don't be thinking that the top pinion seal is the only way that oil is moving about in the back case, there can be a housing for the intermediate gear set that can let in oil. also breather pipe issues plus damage within, on D8H/K's I always open the level plugs with my sleeve rolled up and standing clear as its common to see a fountain, I have pulled the pinion flanges off tractors with totally knackered Duo-Cone seals that have not suffered with oil transfer? if you have brake peddle dance you have trouble, if you have nasty noise you have trouble, on the oil drain out I would just drive it up on timbers or push out a grip to get a pot in and let it fly, you will get wet enough just getting the plug out never mind trying to poke a plug back in against the flow, I would tend to leave things to develop for the next few years as it never seems to cause an issue, you could argue the fact that something is wrong, you could also say well it's still working? I know of 1 D8K that has been filling the cases from the transmission for more than 14 years doing about 600 hrs work a year, the brake bands are going to be worn out soon well within 2 or 3 years so I might cop the job if I am still sunny side up. leave it to develop tctractors
This is why a forum is so great. You hear so many different views and experiences. Just little tools to start investigating . What I do know is the machine runs great and pushes anything in front of me. i would have never known of the overflow if I didn't check the fluids so often . When the weather warms I plan to drain the right side and let the left drain back to normal range . Then check the winch for water contamination. if I keep looking i will continue to find things to fix. I trust the machine and have pampered it since it was bought. Once I finish the few final Projects on the farm I will sell it and feel confident that someone will be getting a reliable machine. If I wanted one with no leaks and in perfect condition then I should have forked out another 100k.
I'm getting rid of the water contamination and letting it ride. Like you said it may run for some time with zero problems .
T tractors,well another year has come and gone. Another hour till the festivities begin in your land. All the very best to you,your family and also Nige and any others still awake there. Best to everyone on this side of the world. Bp
Blk prince, Wishing you and your family a Super Christmas and the best of years to come. tctactors.