Been looking ever since shut down on the 16B Allis that thank goodness is gone to someone else. I looked into the D7E at Lebanon MO, even made a call as to price negotiable where told no. No chance for inspection either unless put money down which is NOT gonna happen. Could not get a straight answer as to maintenance records, nor would the seller(supposedly NOT the owner) get a s/n for back chasing and checking pedigree. $20,000 seems a lot for a pig in a poke. Made a offer of $15k, was told GTH and got hung up on. Had a run in with a guy named Edgar from Lebanon some time back, on the parts donor I own but did not buy from him. Had made a offer of $2500 as a parts machine yet he "Knew" it to be a viable machine just needed a head and some small work which was so much a stretch as to be a out and out lie. I am suspecting he as the seller here too. When I got to buy the donor machine AFTER he sold it to Zimmerman from Zimmerman I found out how rough it was save the newer chains on the rails. Machine remains on Craigslist but I suspect I won't be the buyer. Still looking.
Does Zimmerman still have a bunch of SA/AG tractors?
Used to. Cat, Allis mainly. At one time counted twenty on his yard most with rear PTO set ups and aux hydraulics for implements
I was hoping you would get the 16 -B bought DMiller . I passed on a JD 450C combo unit with the backhoe last month at an auction . Someone wanted it worse then me Nice machine but needed a little work & went higher then I wanted to pay . Strange part is when they went to start & demonstrate the machine before bidding it blew hydro hose lifting the front loader . Machine sold and few day's later I get a service call from the buyer to replace a hydro hose on it so they could load it on a trailer . Went to the auction thinking of spending & ended up earning . LOL !
This one just got listed 2 days ago- don't know anything about it, but it wouldn't be to far from you. https://springfield.craigslist.org/hvo/6108094154.html
That's almost "just around the corner" from me! If that is where I think it is, my wife works about 1/2 mile away from there. It's a mess up by the interstate (I-44) for now--a 60 mile stretch is closed due to flooding and it has everything clogged up. We had 10 inches of rain the last few days (and some folks had more), rivers are above their all-time records (exceeding them by several feet!) so if anyone wants to look at that machine you might want to wait a week.
I saw the big piney was up- west plains got nailed pretty hard too. I was in springfield saturday, and it was really flooding in the flat areas there. Galena on the james river set a all time record high, table rock dam is shoving a pile of water downstream now, because they really can't hold anymore. Hope you're dry jim, anyone else in low lying areas stay safe, and don't drive through running water.
I went down and looked at the 11B last month, would be a good machine except the price. $10K is high for one of these and the 60% rails is pads only, is at 95% used up pins/bushings which the owner disagreed with my measuring. Are 7" pitch just as my 7G but metric, are at 7.115 each link average, he did not understand how I could figure that. I offered $8500 where was declined, has been listed for a few weeks with a few lookers but no takers. Was a battery cable fire burned 11B with newer rails near to Kirksville, was advertised at $5000, got $3500 from a salvager in IA. Would have needed both to keep one moving on the cheap.
BTW, that old 16B sold to a neighbor of the previous owner, $18500
That's interesting that the neighbor bought it and the machine is still in the area . That 16 looked pretty nice for the money plus given it's history sounded like the owner took pretty good care of it . If your not in a hurry on a machine I would keep an eye on it . You never know what the new owner will do . They may knock out a few projects with it & put her up for sale ? Might not hurt to introduce yourself to the new owner with interest plus your mechanical skills having worked on them in the past . May get another chance at it in the near future ?
I did speak to the man as he was picking the unit up, mid thirties and running his own small grading/excavation business, will not be a daily user but will get hard use.
Have looked at a few D7E 48A and D series 17A, not the prettiest and again the owners are pretty proud with prices all above $25k until you look at the rails they say are 90% and tell them to re-adjust that figure to 40, 30 or 0% where they just get mad or ask to hear it run when they say "Won't start needs batteries" and they won't buy any or even try to jump start. One actually told me "look at those shoes, at least 80% left" when I told him the shoes were the least of the issue that the bushings were worn thru in two links which were already turned, he either had no clue what he was speaking of and realized it or knew was caught in a lie got embarrassed and walked away. Kind of regret not taking on the 16B but something kept steering me away, may have just been the age and parts but for some reason could not see it coming home at the price quoted. May have just been fate knowing the other fella needed it more than I.
That's cool ! Stay in contact with him as you never know ? He may need an experienced Allis Chalmers mechanic in the near future .
Spotted this Fiat - Allis 11B clutch tractor in KC . Sounds like it needs a little work but could imagine that for $ 8,000.00 asking price . They also mention can deliver . Might be worth a trip to go kick the tires / tracks . https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/18768591/1970-fiatallis-11b
I think that the 11B advertised as a 1970 may be a later model, as it has a single carrier roller. The earlier ones like this one that I ran had two. The one in the pictures I am posting was a 1972 model year. Sorry for the picture quality.
Found that a lot of owners deleted the upper carriers to save money, my donor 7G was set up as a 7G-B that had single. All had to do is rotate the rear unit to the front mounting as then would sit almost centered. Still has Allis engine so would be early series, later had the Iveco and did not hang in very well.
I decided to Google Allis 11B, got a load of you tube videos and then the ads showed out. Considerably a few on auction sites with no reserve, most do have issues but might pick off at low figures. One is at Camdenton MO on purple wave.
Keep looking DMiller . Something will turn up . Haggle hard on the junk machines that won't start with no maintenance . If you come across another like that 16B that was taken care of ...... Write the owner a check & take it home . Big difference in buying a project verses something ready to go . Learned that lesson years ago . Don't seem to matter what brand or type of equipment . If the seller has taken good care of it and we can put it on a job after we buy it I generally won't make any offers on it . Will either buy for the asking price or pass on it as I have a pretty good idea on maintenance costs Sometimes you have to put a little money in the kitty to move forward Bro .
D M, saw this old 11-B at the Toronto Ritches preview today. I tried to start it but it was a no go. It has been 40 yrs since I last sat on the seat of one of those! Had to scratch my head to locate the starter button.....then it clicked......it is in the cubby hole under the steering clutch levers. It would not start though........... On another sad note, found out today that one of our newer employees was killed in a car crash last night; a rollover... single vehicle accident. Left work yesterday afternoon, never to return.............. Was weighing on me pretty heavy today after learning that.
Not bad shape but seen better days. Had you turned on the master switch in the battery box? I am awaiting some other funds, won't be until after July that I can access them, may not be any of these around when I get there. I know that emotion pretty well, have lost many a dear friend and confidant over the years just as quickly and needlessly.
Yes I did find the master. Here is the link for the 11-B. https://www.rbauction.com/1974-FIATALLIS?invId=9973381&id=ci&auction=TORONTO-ON-2017282
Little bit far away!!
Sorry to hear about loosing a fellow worker in the car accident Metalman 55 . That was a nice looking 11B you spotted . I see several F/A tractors up in your area . https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/11783055/1972-fiatallis-11b Wonder what trucking cost would be to middle America ? 3 to 5 thousand ?
Here's a dandy for ya..... just popped up tonight like it was meant to be. Must have been a high horsepower option https://tulsa.craigslist.org/hvo/6117968573.html
Some nice iron for someone local. Would require oversize permit and over 400 miles to get the contraption here. At the local hauling rate is over $3000 to move it from Ok City to Hermann not including fuel surcharge. I am also learning as to what machines will interchange components. The Allis 7G and the 11B series used 7.0 rails, close match with little mods is Cat 6.906 rails with the smaller bushing will ride on the sprockets reasonably the 16's have no interchange 7.850 requiring sprocket mods to use any other rail. Other issues as well so am really starting to concentrate to still existing manufacturers. Is a 11B up for absolute auction on Purple Wave relatively close Camdenton MO. As with all old machines issues and noted in sales add of final leak, rails weak, "head gasket pinhole" whatever that might really be, other small leaks but fairly clean with the bids already over $4100 and to the 25th before final.
777 horsepower or the engine is out of a 777 ? either way it sounds fun
Should be around a 180-200hp engine in there, don't know where they would have come up with the figure!
It would have to be close to $5k to haul that far I would think. When I bought the D6C in Albany NY (230 ish miles) 4 years ago, I think it was $2,300 US. If you could have someone do it on a back haul, that would bring the price down. I just sold my nice old D4D dozer to a man in Gladstone Manitoba (not to be confused with where Scrub is from!!) a distance of 1350 miles from me & he is having it shipped on a backhaul for a good rate. I am going to miss that tractor, but hardly use it anymore. No ROPS, so it must stay on private property.
I did some checking as to haul price when looking at the 16B. $4.50/loaded mile LOCAL in-state haul out of state would be a contract hauler and could end up quite a bit higher than I quoted above. The Allis in Camdenton is sold at $4100. The major issue they will have is the right final, I own the last seal package know to exist stateside for my 7G(same p/n) and it will be used when I rebuild the right final on it. No one(seal makers) makes a similar or interchangeable kit for these where will require a machine shop to convert to something else. Neoprene crushable donut woven fiber reinforced with two wear washers crushed into tension when torque final sprocket or flange in place.
Did you see this D7? It's not far from you either (same auction as the camdenton one)- Looks like they've been using it, but looks like the engine compartment and pans could use a good cleaning to stop a fire. Too bad they don't show the pins, but its close enough you could go take a look. https://www.purplewave.com/auction/170525/item/DB1314
I've always taken that approach as well td. Iam just buying a truck, from a private seller, at the moment and when it came to closing the deal he was on the defensive, expecting me to beat him down. When I agreed to his asking price providing he obtain an engine report and fix a couple of small oil leaks, his demeanour changed immediately. I think I'll be much better off than the few k I may have gained by haggling. Buying from dealers may be a different story, you usually have nothing to lose by sticking it to them.
I went to the auction, seems 76440 has a bounty to pursue on the machine as they outbid everyone else to end up getting the machine.
I also hesitate to think that belly pan has been welded up in place in the photos, is also FULL, this machine is a fire awaiting a site to go off!
It's only at $6,200 right now. It doesn't close until the 25th of the month, which would give you time to drive over there and give it a good look, that way you can decide if its something your real interested in. Whoever that bidder is, has probably put a 10k or something priority bid in. Whenever someone bids, it will automatically bid for him until his maximum is reached. If I'm looking at spending that kind of $, I like to go look, and talk to the owner if I can. Closer to home can save you $ on trucking, or enable you to pay a little more for it. At least being Cat, you wouldn't have the parts availability issues like the Allis- you just have to be able to afford them. Good luck finding something- I'll try to keep my eye out.
I thought all those sales closed the 25th, that Allis 11B is already sold and gone $4100. I think I will stick with the open sales and hard prices.
The allis and the cat are both still open for bidding. When it shows winning bid- that's just the current winning bid price, it won't close until the last day of the auction. They don't close until may 25, not april 25, so you could still bid on either item, or go look at either one. I have bought several items through purplewave, you need to remember the buyers premium also. 10% adds up.
Good points Queenslander ! Come to think of it I've gotten most the best deals over the years buying trucks & equipment without any haggling or offers . The asking price may even be over market value but if the machine is tight , work ready and can make the numbers work we would go after it . Many times paying a little more up front on something good makes money down the long road . What the hell is " market value " anyway ? My equipment dealer buddy schooled me on this topic years ago . Dealers need it to buy & sell equipment in short time frame and make a little coin in the process . He then stated it has little or no effect on operators buying for long term putting it on job sites earning . I tend to agree with him . If the " market value " is down on a piece of equipment just keep it on a job site earning cash .
If you're a contractor and have a job coming up where you would put a couple hundred hours on the machine in question, then thousands more later on other jobs, what you can resell it for is not the main consideration, but as the thread title goes, a guy like me who buys a machine with the intention of improving his property and then reselling the machine in a few years after putting 2 or 3 hundred hours on it, an assessment of market value is important because one can easily end up spending more than one would hiring the work done. I am able to do this only because I'm able to understand markets and follow them closely. I could never do this if I purchased a machine from any dealer. I have seen quite a few Craigslist deals by private sellers which I would not have haggled on, but they were sold to someone else within a day after the ad went up.
The Fiat Allis 11-B sold for $10,500 CDN today at Ritchie Bros. Toronto. That would be approx. $7,500 US.
I take it they got it running? Looks a lot straighter than the one on Purple wave at Camdenton MO. That one needs some work! Bidding war is all out on for the D7, went from $7300 to $11,500 in a blink, now at $12k. 15 days to go the 11B in MO sits at $4100.
I was not there, so don't know if it was running. We bid online from the office. We were successful on this JLG Boomlift (lot # 513) & also (lot #520) as well. https://www.rbauction.com/2007-JLG-600AJ-4x4-Articulated?invId=9835275&id=ci Not sure if you can open it or not?
https://www.rbauction.com/2008-JLG-...nvId=9903504&id=ci&auction=TORONTO-ON-2017282 This is the other one if it can be opened.
For good shipping deals try Uship.com. I found a guy needing to get back from Kentucky to Amarillo,TX to haul a dozer for a great price. You put the load out there and people bid on it.
That's good to know........thanks.
When I bought my 955K I tried uship and also called local HE dealers (Cat and Deere) and some dirt contractors (they'll occasionally haul a piece of equipment if they're not busy). The Deere dealer very close to where the 955K was located referred me to their local contract hauler. He knew where it was and where I was and they moved it for about $4 a loaded mile. The uship quotes I got back were nearly 4x that! If you're moving something locally (around here that's about 200 miles), call around and be creative. I've found I can almost always find someone in the range of $4 to $5 a loaded mile. I once had 10 tons of steel delivered at no cost 'cause they were "going my way"! Never hurts to ask.
I think it was right at an 800 mile trip and the seller wanted $2,500 for the shipper he usually uses. I ended up getting it moved for $1,300. This was a 18,000# dozer. I imagine any bigger and the price would go way up. Never hurts to try. Took about 10 minutes to sign up and had a shipper in a couple hours. They started at $2,500 but the bids came down pretty quick. Like I say this guy was in Kentucky needed to get home so delivered to me then ran 30 miles down the road to PJ trailers picked up a load of trailers and headed home to Amarillo.
I've used USHIP 4 times. Three of those times the rates were exorbitant. One of the drivers told me he made about 17% less than what I paid USHIP. I haven't tried needahauler.com yet but will try it next time. When you buy at Ritchie bros, you have a very short time to get your iron out of their yard and that deadline exponentially increases shipping costs.
Whoever you choose verify they have appropriate authority and insurance. You can look any carrier up on safer. Don't want an accident and then find out they have cargo coverage lower than the value of your machine or it only pays pennies per pound. Quite a few brokers are pretty shady, can't rely on them to properly check everything. Junkyard
Good advice Junkyard. I verified insurance but didn't think to look at how much he was covered up to. Bought the dozer sight unseen and wired the money so I was in a bit of a hurry to get it moved.
Metalman55, looks like bargains were to be had even at those prices. Machines look very good just be careful on them!
Hey, TD25C! You asked, "What... is " market value " anyway ?" Market value is what the market for an item/a property thinks that item/property is worth at any particular moment. I guess you could say it is a collective opinion. Appraisers develop, and report, their opinion of the opinion of the market. Given good, recent/current data, appraisals may be pretty precise, but the market can change in an instant. Value is best reported, and understood, as a range of value. Back to you, Neill
We actually have 3 other boom lifts, so they are not new to us & all operators have full training (I think every 2 years) with safety harness always worn when operating. Here is an 80' that we purchased from Ritchie's about 3-4 years ago. After we bought it, we painted it. See before & after pics.
That's a good summery of " Market Value " in the short term Tarhe Driver . Opinions of opinions & speculating what people might buy or sell an item for ? Like my equipment dealer buddy .... He's working on short term buying & trading iron and hopefully please some customers & earn a little coin at the same time . He would have to pay close attention to the " opinions of opinions " to get a feel of what he could move something for quickly ? I generally look at long term when buying anything . Don't trade around much or try to " flip " equipment or property . If I buy something it's because I wanted it and probably gonna keep it for the long haul . If maintained it will only go up in value over time . Back to you ,
TD25C, you may be sorry you asked!!! You bring up two components of market value. If somebody comes on your yard and tries to buy a dozer that is about to go to a good job you have, that buyer is going to have to pay a premium to compensate you for the aggravation that you are going to have to experience to do whatever you will have to do to get that "good job" done according to your contract for that job. However, if you have just put a for-sale sign on that dozer and stuck it in the front of the yard on a high-trafficked road, but you're in no hurry to sell it, the first person who "kicks the tire" may be the best buyer, or it might take six months to find "the best buyer; in this case, if the dozer is priced right, the price is probably not going to change over those six months. And on the third hand (appraisers have lots of hands), if you're in a cash crunch and need money, you might "make a deal" and give that first buyer a discount, in effect, accepting a lower price for that dozer in lieu of a possible long marketing time. In a "normal" market value, the seller has not restricted the exposure time that the property is exposed to the market; but when the seller needs cash quickly, the seller may shorten the exposure time by agreeing to take a lesser price than a "normal" market time is projected to bring. (hope I'm not being too wordy) Another definition of market value is the current or present value of all future benefits that are perceived by the market. In it's simplest form, you can calculate the present value of an annuity that will pay X dollars a month for Y years (sort of like a state-lottery pay-out) by using a supported discount rate. You asked >He would have to pay close attention to the " opinions of opinions " to get a feel of what he could move something for quickly ?< Exactly. Some people have the ability to almost intuitively understand market-values and market-value movements, and probably have excellent intuition, as well as being able to read sellers and buyers very well. The best way to get that knowledge is to be immersed in the market by buying and selling, as well as staying knowledgeable about the factors that are affecting that market, which means a lot of reading of the news and lots of talking with market participants. Knowledge is power, without a doubt. Back to you, Neill
I always considered 'Market Value' was what the open market would tolerate to pay for any machine I was looking at. Around here AC or Komatsu is cheap but Deere and Cat command big bucks no matter the year or type.
DMiller, I think that you are saying the same thing. Neill
I used Uship once and learned a lesson to not try that again. I paid Uship for a 212 Cat grader to be delivered from NC. It was to be delivered that same Friday, 5 days later. It never showed. I was given every excuse from the trucker, the most common being that his haul back did not work out. I also heard that he lost a u-joint, and also that he was in the hospital with the *****. He did not know which hospital when I asked. After 3 weeks, my next door neighbor had a load going 50 miles from my grader. He offered to bring it back. I contacted U-ship and they told me that they would take 10% off the top for me cancelling and credit the rest to be used for shipping in the next 12 months. They will not refund nothing. It did not matter that there driver did not perform. He finally brought it 4 weeks after it was promised in the contract. Then he had the balls to ask me to do a favorable post on his behalf. I posted all right but he probably did not want the truth.
After that, Uship is probably trying to change its name. What a horrible way to do business. Thanks for posting, old-iron-habit! Neill
I've had decent luck with them, though had to wrangle the final shipping fees from the winning bidder, wanted to charge oversize even though the width was listed, agreed to pay overweight as it was 8-10k heavier than usual due to a heavier bucket, extra counterweight and solid tires. Refused to pay the permit company fees as they were needed for the over width. I enjoy a good haggle sometimes.
A bit off subject.....but we went & picked up the two manlifts at the auction yard yesterday & brought them home....had posted about them a week or so ago on this thread. Our mechanic is busy checking them out today. They require an annual inspection each year & every 10 yrs an NDT inspection on the frame/boom components.
I understand the testing, used to do it but that was 24 years ago I did my last one. At the plant they use the manufacturer service techs to do those tests and certs. Is quite an experience checking the over-center bearing play on 60-110' line crew work booms. You do it IN The basket!!
fr8star sometimes has better prices. doesn't hurt to compare.
Does Uship not guarantee delivery? You can always use other platforms that have better assurances (veritread, fr8star, etc.)
FR8Star.com has the same idea - but the carriers are all heavy haulers so you don't have to mess with someone who maybe doesn't know how to move the load.
https://springfield.craigslist.org/hvo/6137944392.html
Not a bad old cable unit, been well kept by appearance, will be a good buy for someone. I just filed my retirement papers as my back won't do what they want me to do anymore. Once I get this figured out then maybe I can get back in the look. Thanks for thinking of me.
No problem. Sorry to hear of the more health issues. Keep plugging along.