here are some pics of my newest toy. i believe its 1956 according to previous owner i changed all fluids & bump started it with JD 350 it started and ran great after 9 yrs. blade not lifting. is there hydraulic resivoir or does it use the trans fluid? also left brake pedal going to floor ? lastly how much does it weigh? what model is it? and what does anybody think about its over all condition? i want to fix pony motor where can i get the parts? any input would be
No matter how hard I concentrate and visualize, I still can't see your photos
The power of positive thinking!
positive thinking definately is key
It's hard to tell much from only close ups, but the sprockets look good. It looks like it might be a d6, but I'm not sure. I'd only consider fixing the pony motor if you are doing a historically correct restoration. You can buy an electric starter that will go in it's place. It almost certainly has a hydraulic reservoir. Find the serial number and we can tell you a lot about her. On edit: I see it already has the electric conversion.
how can utell has conversion will it start in cold with out pony to warm it up?thanks for ur time
That's a D6 model, either wide 9U or narrow gauge 8U, can't tell from picture but I'm thinking 8U model. Does appear to be in good shape from what can be seen. It has a front mounted hydraulic control #46. Pony parts are still available from Cat and if it's a "56" model will have provision to mount a direct electric start. Look for the starter cover plate on LH side below the pony clutch. A complete installation would include glow plugs for cold starting.
wher can i find serial num? the numbers i found only told me about engine its d318
wher can i find direct start local dealer told me wont start in cold without pony motor
hows this:
Isn't that an electric starter motor with a solenoid and battery cable on the left rear of engine? It should start fine in everything but really cold weather as long as your battery and starter are in good shape and spin it fast enough. I guess you could use a heater in real cold weather, though I'm not the one to ask, as my experiences are from SC, Fl, and Suriname.
Check rear upper LH side of the steering clutch housing and behind the magneto LH rear of engine for s/n.
thanks s/n 8U 5630 is it tough machine? does direct start kit crank over main engine or crank over pony? if i went direct start i wouldnt want pony on there if its not operational thank u for ur time. i got it two months ago. pony was set up so i pulled plugs and filled with two stroke oil. tonight when looking for s/n i grabbed pulley on crank of pony and it turned a half turn. who has direct start and how much? i might have somthing to trade somebody but id rather fix pony. i think battery and starter in picture are for pony motor. i want to pull pony and set on bench. however i think pony circulates main engine coolant so if i decide to jumpstart it again to work on blade hydraulics i might have to block off coolant ports? forgive my computer illiteracy. i had to have my wife help me post pictures
Well, 8U5630 is a 1952 model that pre-dates the direct start option so the flywheel/clutch housing would have to be bored to receive a direct start mounting. Yes, you have the electric start/cranking option for the pony motor. Yes on needing some blank off plates to isolate the cooling system if you remove the pony. I'd advise looking into what's wrong with the pony motor before attempting the direct start option, some folks actually run both. Also would require changing the main engine head to the larger bore pre-combustion chambers that accomodate the glo-plugs.
thankyou. waiting on service manual, carburetor and intake manifold from previous owner. pony engine turning smothly,seem to have couple of sticky valves,starter motor setup. lots of work to do disapointed that i dont have direct start option but this is good because im forced to fix pony wich will make bitter cold starts easier.im sure magneto will need servicing as well
i went to a new to me salvage yard today and ran across this about 25 miles from my home Im gonna have hell of time explainin this one to wife!
I finally got pony intake manifold and carb from previous owner. unfortunately no manual. i drained antifreeze and pulled pony heads cylinders look farely good. no slop between pistons and sleeves. i think new rings and honing will do the trick. vales need work all four stuck open. heres my questions. can i do these engine repairs by just removing the intake/exhaust manifold with pony still on machine? i think i will need a new carb among other things. can i purchase these items from cat or can someone point me in a solid direction? the tag on carb is barely legible-5f3525 pony number-4f8395 thnks
It looks as if it does already have an electric starter to me too. I surely would'nt put the pony motor back on it,,,
the electric starter is for the pony motor my down time is in the winter and i would like to start it on a sub zero day with the coolant circulation,exhaust heat,ect method
Yes, you can do those repairs with the pony in place.....but before you get to excited you need to know if the starter pinion mechanism and clutch are working right, otherwise you will need to lift the pony to remove the clutch/pinion for repairs (very common to have a buggered up pinion/latch mechanism on these old units as they are a poor design/weak link.
working levers and turning pony pulley revealed main engine turning over the brass bushing inside the gear behind the magneto looks worn. some play in that gear thanks old magnet
Those pony motors had drains on the bottom os the 2 cylinders, the carburators are notorious for leaking fuel into the cylinders while the main engine is running and the machine bounces around. Open the drains and see if it turns freely, they look like an air tanks drain. We have an old D4 with a pony, and we work more on the pony than we do the rest of the machine. (although it is yard art lol) Good luck on getting the ol' girl going.
Standard procedure for that is to shut off the gas and let the pony run until it's out of gas. Still fairly common to have the float stick when gas flow is restored, often cured with a slight rap to the float bowl.
I agree, but when the young guys run these ol' machines they forget about that stuff. lol
I don't have any connection to this Ebay person but thought it may be of interest. Just a thought: Search Ebay for this: 330815980211 Might have some information that would help you. I was trying to find information on Cat's Online Parts Store but seems they don't have the real old equipment available there.
thankyou idont have the time for this project but im making it because it brings me great joy
I was told once that if you have time to work at a full time job you need more hobbies!
Monserandsons, Do NOT buy that book on Ebay!!! Why because I just found one in my office at work. Email me at my home address [email protected] and for the cost of shipping it's yours just let me know where to mail it. I'm over near Syracuse NY so it should not be much. Also found a parts book for a D318 dated October 1952. both are in good to almost new condition.
edit ordered it last night because it said one day left. that is very kind of you though ilive in cherry valley about 2 hours from syracuse would love 318 book cant figure what im doing wrong but cant seem to email you maybe wife can help me tomorrow
manuals are great! Thanks so much! today i pulled pony and made all temporary block off plates. i was going to do pony work in place but after feeling a lot of play in bearings i decided best to rebuild on bench. i may send it to my father as this will be a good reason for us to keep in touch more. after reading numerous threads and reading about similiar problems i realize i have alot of work to do. does anyone have a cardboard template for the required hole to be drilled for an electric starter? im sure i have enough room to do this on the tractor. also did i read somewhere that a direct start system that bolts in place off the pony clutch is available?
Yes. there is someone out there that advertised a starter mounted to the pony clutch. I didn't think much of it because it still uses the problematic pinion engagement system. This fits the D6 only without running into the governor. You can look at my starter conversion website and get the dimensions for a template. Problem is the only thing you can index from are the engine mount bolt holes. Also that's very tight space to work in but can be bored depending on the setup you use. http://sites.google.com/site/oldmagcat/
ok now what? its on the bench
didn't want to go here yet but might as well what does this cob tell you?there was two muffler clamps over that sleeve I presume to hold the idler wheel out
Couple of things, first the adjustment is over extended, usually results in stripping the threads thus requiring the spacer. Means the rails are worn beyond the adjustment range. Other thing is the equalizer spring is supposed to be under that bracket. That makes it a safety issue as that's the only thing that holds the front of the tractor down.
I like pony motors, if the pony has electric start, lol. Once they're running properly a tiny bit of care and maintenance will keep them spinning for years. Aside from neglect, the magneto is I think the most common problem area, followed of course by the carburetor especially with the new gas.
I knew the spring was supposed to be under, just wondering how and why, the other side is correct. as far as track adjustment goes I found the information required to build up the rails, would it not be simpler to remove a link? I want to remove the bellypan, does it in any way give structural strength to the chasis? come winter I may want to bring it in to the garge and if the bellypan adds strength moving it may be a problem. more than likely it will be striped down to nothing as that is my style. iv never had a cat before so I think I have the "fever"
No issue with the belly pan other than heavy and awkward. Lot's of them run without one. Removing a link is a bandaid fix that will get you by for a while but sprocket and chain wear accelerates as the track pitch changes. Still depends on a proper working track adjuster.
im putting track adjuster/suspension issues on back burner for now. I have downloaded all of your conversion information and think I will be better off trying to drill my housing. The pony isn't going anywhere and if I screw up alignment ican put a cover on it and go back to pony. I fully intend to rebuild pony but I think its condition will make for an expensive and long build based on my schedule/budget. couple questions, the graphed template is that centered on the boss? does the boss have to be ground down flush with rest of housing? How do I know if I need a eleven or twelve toothe, what direction it must rotate, and lastly can my generator for the pony starter be set uo for the conversion?thanks for all your input and some others have also made this more interesting
Centering on the raised boss is not really accurate enough, that's why I based it off the engine mount bolts, not handy but that's about all there is to reference. The boss does not have to be machined but it does effect pinion engagement depth a little. Starter needs to be clockwise rotation. Check the pony pinion and match the tooth count,should be 11 tooth and RH helical. The 6 volt generator can be rebuilt to provide 12v but not 24v. My preference is 24v, especially if you ever expect to add glow plugs.
tonight I did a layout on the boss and discovered only one starter bolt will be entering housing within raised boss area. the other two will be on edge of raised boss making for a more difficult drill/tap Assuming I get the layout correct and drilling goes well, will the irregularities on the surface area around the bottom bolt and left bolt affect clamping pressure? I guess this would depend on the thickness/strength and surface area of the drive end housing against raised boss. I remember you mentioning that the three bolts would supply ample clamping pressure, but Im not sure if that applies when the boss isn't machined down.after installation is complete how do you determine best possible flywheel to helical gear clearance? Ive read many threads and posts here and elsewhere and im surprised you havnt grown tired of pony to direct questions. would definitely appreciate your opinion. P.S. ill try not to ask to many more questions. p.
If the raised boss has exceptional rough/high spots it would be a good idea to hit them with a grinder. Plenty of these conversions have been done without machine facing the raised boss. The way to check fit of the drive is to take the solenoid housing cover off and work the solenoid plunger by hand. It is possible to die grind the hole if your a little off along with oversizing the drive end housing bolt holes. Also can remove the starter lever housing from the motor and just work with that portion for fit up. Makes it not quite so awkward.
Not sure how to determine right or left helical, but it definitely has 13 teeth counted them at least thirteen times Hope this doesn't limit my options. I had quite the time getting that mechanism out.
Pinion and latch mechanism appear to be in good shape. It's those short bolts on the sleeve that give up and the whole works comes off. If you reuse, adding permanent lock-tite as well as the tab plate is a good idea. Not to worry, original bendix type starter drive was an 11 tooth, still on the same flywheel ring gear.
Forgot one. RH helix means teeth are going down and to the right when facing the drive end.
thanks Old Magnet
I have some new rails that should fit this tractor if your interested, posted them on the stuff for sale section , best of luck with you bully-doozer either way
Speaking of old iron. This old iron is unidentified. I'm new to the forum but not to dirt work. Wonder if I can post a pic? It's a straight 6 GM w GM tranny.
Any guesses as to what it is? I had someone goes 60's case?