Since the weather's gotten colder, the old Trojan 114 seems to have a lot of slip in the transmission for a few to several minutes before it just works as it should. I've never worked on a transmission like it, I have no books, etc. but would like to do something with it if it's possible. Would thinner oil help? I don't even know what oil is in it. Any help here would be appreciated - ?
What oil are you using right now ..? Sorry, just read the OP a bit more closely. Must try to wake up in the mornings ............ Judging by the symptoms you are describing maybe even an oil change to new oil the same as what's in it right now might benefit you. Finding out what that oil should be is the kicker.
My bet is wrong oil. Could be anything in there. Usually somebody says "They all take the same oil". Wouldn't surprise me if somebody put 90 weight in it. Need to find out what's supposed to be in it. just a guess would be ATF or 10 weight but need to be sure. I seem to be cursed with "90 weight" syndrome. Just with our small number of units I've had guys (my guys and service places)put it in hydraulic system (supposed to be 10 WT), steering (ATF), truck transmission (10w30 or 50 WT) and the most popular pick up transfer cases (ATF) at least 4 times. Sorry to rant.
Agree 100%. Without knowing exactly what make of transmission is in it a lot of transmissions from that generation were Clarks and most if not all of them used ATF. Is there any sort of manufacturer's data plate on the tranny and (if you can read it) what does it say..? I've just gone through the same thing this morning with our lube guys. We get bad oil samples back, or at least suggesting we put them on our "Watch List" and in more than 50% of cases we can see straight away from the viscosity of the oil in the analysis that someone put the wrong oil in the compartment the last time it was changed. Examples would be using SAE50 TO-4 in grader tandems instead of SAE30, and using SAE50 TO-4 oil in grader circle drives & tractor final drives instead of SAE60 FD-1 oil. We have pretty much done away with EP oils here, the only place we use them is in our Light Vehicle shop for pickup trucks and similar. We don't carry them on the lube truck or in the heavy equipment shop at all. In a similar fashion we only carry one 10W oil (a TO-4) that can do both hydraulic systems and torque converters/brakes. Therefore we don't get someone putting a straight 10W hydraulic oil into a converter tank that needs TO-4 spec oil.
I'll have to wipe some years of grease off it tomorrow & try to find a nameplate. I can always post a pic of it too. Thanks for the replys, as to the oil. If all ATF is red, then it's not that. It doesn't seem as thick as 90W on the dipstick. When not running, it's overful by that dipstick. I didn't check it running, but will tomorrow.
All ATF is red AFAIK. Could someone have possibly put engine oil in it in the past ..? How does the viscosity of the transmission oil look like compared to any new engine oil you might have kicking around ..?
It looks like an engine oil, or old hydraulic oil maybe?
I had the same problem in a old deere loader, it was only when it was cold out and it got to the point were it wouldn't even move when it was really cold. I put Amsoil Synthetic Powershift Transmission Fluid SAE 30 and it stopped the problem. I am sure any new fluid you put in it will work doesn't need to be amsoil but I have had really good luck with that stuff. I would say change the fluid like I did and lets hope that is your fix... If it doesn't fix it, well it doesn't hurt anything putting new fluid in it I am sure it is due...
I would say that if it's a Clark transmission it would require something like ATF in it. ATF is about equivalent to an SAE10 or a maybe even little lighter IIRC. Putting SAE30 in it might not fix the problem as the oil will still be a bit too heavy when the transmission is cold which is exactly the problem the OP is having right now. Better to do some investigation regarding the transmission first IMHO.
My favorite story with regard to using the wrong oil is this. I had the Komatsu dealer do a service on our 150 when it was pretty new. They changed everything took oil samples, etc. A few days later i got an urgent message from the service manager: "The engine sample shows the wrong oil! someone put straight mineral oil in it instead of diesel oil!" I told him they had done the last service also. His response: "Oh"
Kerching ........!!! That's usually followed by a comment from my side - "How big's your cheque book...? because if anything goes wrong with this now it's on your account."
I couldn't find a nameplate, but here's two photos.
some have external oil pump with a line that come off the bottom of the transmission, could be sucking air right a first. if you find out it would be help full i have a 3 speed Alison in a terex 72-31 that doing the same thing
I'm pretty sure I have a happy ending here, as I finally found an owners book for this Trojan. The transmission is a Trojan T-22 it says, and it's supposed to have ATF type A in it. NAPA found me a new filter, and today I drained the transmission & put new ATF in. Not sure what came out, looked & smelled like oil, maybe hydraulic oil, deffinitly not ATF. Not solid black, but close. The book says it holds 15 quarts, I guess if you could drain the converter & all the cooler lines it would. 9 quarts refilled it for me. When I got done, the machine had a little snap to it I'd never seen, even at idle it would creep forward or back, which it wouldn't do before without a few hundred rpm mpre than idle. I'm pretty sure this will help the cold weather issue. I might run it till fall and change it again to get more of that old fluid out.
Be sure you check the oil level at idle. If too low it will not have the right amount of power. My old **-70 was the same as what you said yours was. The guy I bought it from had the wrong oil and not enough. The machine would not even move when the weather got cold. Changed the oil and I had to add about 8 quarts more to put it at the right level. I had a different machine, like night and day.....
What sort of viscosity was the old fluid (I'm not going to call it oil based on your description) that you drained compared to the new ATF you put in it..? I would hazard a guess that it was much heavier. I think I would not leave it even that long to change again, especially if you only got 9 quarts out of a supposed 15 quart system, that's only a little better than half of the oil. Personally I'd drain it again after say a month and refill with more ATF. If you need to, drain again in the fall.
I will keep an eye on the level, and plan to change it again. I got the loader last June and only put 40 hours on it, mostly move logs around the sawmill and pallets of wood. I'd have to say the old fluid was like motor oil, not as black as some I've seen, but no red in it either. May have been hydraulic oil too ? I used it again today, and there was no hesitation or slipping like before. The clutch pressure gauge still works, before it would vary from 50 to 60 and go as high as 100, only to fall back again. Today it was a steady 120.
Mike Van - I have a trojan 164 loader (a little bigger than yours) I am interested in the forks that you use on your loader as I need to find or make a set for mine. any chance you have a pic of your forks set up? -thanks
Make sure you check the transmission idling in neutral with transmission warmed up.
forks Chris - I just took them off today [saw your post too] I'll get a few pics tomorrow, get them on here.
forks Here's the story on the forks, with a few pics. These were off and old 60's era Yale, they're 5' long. Originally I made them up to use on a tractor 3 ph, you can still see some of the frame. They're on my loader 90% of the time. When I first got it, I mounted them in the bucket on some pins, but this was about useless as you can't see them. I made up a tool carrier first, to line up with the pins from the bucket. Looked like this, and ended like this - The top hooks go under the top pins where the hyd cly's pushed/pulled, the lower ones line up with the pivots. I have to get off and pull/replace these when I change from one to the other. The bucket pretty much stayed the same. Next I had to make the holder for the forks match the back of the bucket - They do work well, I've moved some logs that scaled out to over 5000 pounds. I put firewood on 1/2 cord pallets, almost 50 of them, this setup moved them around with ease.