I have a 963 model 21z04421 and Wanted to service it right the first time (it's a new machine to me). According to the book, the lower bucket bushings are oil filled. Mine seem to be a dry type. Did cat change to a dry type, or do i have an older version, or am I just not looking at something right? I took the 2 bolts and washers off of the outside of the pin ( on one side- there are 2 pins and 4 bolts and washers of course) but I can't see where there is any type of check plugs to put oil in. What's the deal????
Dirtfarmer, they are Pin Assemblies. If they aren't flopping around loose they are good. They consist of a pin inside of a bushing, sealed with oil inside. The center bushing clamps inside of the lift arms. The pin has a large taper welded onto each end and the tapered collets tighten onto them and jam into the bucket bracket bores. If the collets are installed correctly you can clean out a couple of holes at 9:00 or 3:00 O'clock and take out a plug to see oil. If pin isn't loose leave it alone. Later Bob
Mine aren't loose what so ever but the book says to check the oil. Guess sometimes the book doesn't know everything lol. I'll take your advise and just leave them alone. Thanks.
You can check them if the holes in the collets are inline with the small plugs in the pins. Need small socket about 1/4", clean dirt out and see. Holes should be at 3:00 or 9:00 Oclock. Later Bob
dirtfarmer, Can you take a PIC or two? Would like to see what that pin setup looks like! Thanks
I would if I could my friend but my "old" cell phone doesn't take pictures with enough pixxels or something and I can't load them on a computer--- well, someone smarter than me probably could lol.
Yeah me too. I am having a hard time visualizing the lower bucket bushings being oil filled. Is this where the bucket pivots on the loader arms? I don't think I have ever seen one that is oil filled, only the normal greased pin and bushing.
Picture this, A large bushing that clamps into the bores of the lower lift arms. Each end of the bushing is machines to accept a Duo Cone seal(less expensive with plastic rings) that is used in the sealed and lubricated track links. The pin through the bushing has two ends welded on that accept the other halves of the duo cones. These ends have the tapers machined to fit the collets that fit into the bucket. The collets have a few holes in them, three are threaded for removal with forceing bolts and one is for access to the plug to check oil level we are talking about. To put these together you use a rod through the center and a press to force the tapers together then install a bolt and tighten the nut. CM1995 wash off the end of one of your lower pins and post a pic please. Later Bob
Thanks Bob, I was starting to think that I read the book wrong and they weren't oil filled lol. I hope your friend sends a picture to help prove that I ain't plum dumb lol. It did make me feel better that the other guys didn't know of such a set up in those bushings. Thanks to all, this is a great site for info!!!!
Here's the P&B's on the bucket of my 953.
OOPS, that's a regular pin sorry guys. Need to find a pic or dwg for you and where they are used. Thougt the C's had them. Later Bob
I will take some pics of my 963 bucket pins tomorrow and post them for you guys to see tomorrow night.
Whew! OK I am not loosing my mind.
here's a sectioned drawing of a cartridge pin joint. The pin joint basically consists of 3 items: - 1. The Cartridge Pin Assembly (marked 8A). 2. 2 collets (marked 1), parallel outside and tapered inside. 3. A long bolt, nut, and washers to pull the whole lot together. As Bob said before, the cartridge pin assembly is made up of 6 individual pieces. A centre shaft. 2 conical end pieces. A sleeve that fits in between the 2 end pieces. 2 Duo-Cone seals. When it's assembled at the factory one conical end piece with half a Duo-Cone seal already installed in it is welded to the centre shaft, then the sleeve with half a Duo-Cone seal installed in each end of it is slid over the centre shaft, finally the other conical end piece with its half a Duo-Cone seal is installed on the other end and welded in place to make a complete assembly. There is a 1/8 NPT plug (not shown) in each conical end piece that are used to fill the assembly with oil (One to fill, the other at the other end to let the air out). The oil fills the space inside the pin assembly between the centre shaft and the bush, plus there is usually a chamber somewhere to act as an oil reservoir. Whatever link, bucket bore, etc, that the pin is installed into (the centre of the photo) has a split in it which can be forced open using a bolt (or bolts) so that the pin slides in by hand. Once the pin is in place the split is closed and tightened up using bolts, thus securely clamping the centre sleeve of the cartridge pin assembly to the link/bucket, whatever. Then the 2 collets are installed, one in each end. Beat the **** out of them with a sledge and the conical I/D of the collet grips fast to the conical O/D of each end of the cartridge pin assembly. Install the centre bolt and tighten it to an unbelievable torque and there you have it. The sleeve on the cartidge pin is securely clamped to the centre link, the conical parts at the ends are securely clamped to the outer links via the collets, so when the joint rotates the sleeve is forced to rotate on the centre shaft of the pin. The problems start when one of the Duo-Cones fails and the pin loses its oil - usually it's a thermic lance job to get the pin out, but that's a story for another day .......!!
Thanks for pic, under the large washer will be some forcing bolt holes and one access hole to the oil check plug. Later Bob
I tried to find some old caps so the others could see those holes but I must have put them somewhere where I would remember where I put them.
I have a C machine that needs a pin does anyone have a part number ?
I just bought a set for my 63 today. The shop I use can get them aftermarket which is probably the same place cat gets them but at a third of the price of cat.
Cat has an aftermarket (genuine cat?) I just bought some for my C they were about 200each, takes about 10 min to install...... It was crazy how easy they was to change
Changing them this weekend. 125 each with new end bolts. Cat doesn't make much of their stuff anymore. Most of it is outsourced.
What a over complicated method to pin a bucket in place. Where on the old machines a little grease went a long way on a simple pin. Can't believe they have to be so complex and so movement restrictive.
Movement restrictive? I bet the oil filled pin would outlast the average grease able pin and bushing by quite a margin.
But does the expense outweigh the benefit? My old Allis has greased pins/bushings, it is not sloppy and is 40 years old. May have been re-pinned during that time but even at that the pins are still available at less than $50 each, bushings at $35 each. Deere still uses a simple pin/bushing on their machines as does Case on backhoes and excavators. Will these outlast as well be cheaper when replacement needed? How bad is damage as these fail, does it take more machining to repair after a failure than a simple pin/bushing? Just seems to be over engineered for the basic purpose at hand.
If the pin assem and collet are clamped firmly no bore repair should be needed. Pin and bushings will last a long time if greased regularly. Years ago I saw an old 988 with 10,000 hrs and all pins and bushings where as new except one that the automatic grease hose had broken off. With the pins and bushings unworn the bores were not pounded out either. Later Bob
It looks to be a good setup. Sealed just like the links on the tracks. Unless the pin locks to the outer bosses you will get no wear on threw bushings into the bucket or arms. Might be higher to replace but a lot cheaper that line boring or welding all new bosses on the bucket and arms.
The system does work pretty well.All the Cat Loaders from 980 up used to use the system. It does wear out eventually but it doesn't cost any more to line bore it than any other set up. The Cat size for the bores that take the collets is usually about 4 thou clearance on the collet. I usually machine the bores to the same size and on the 994's a bit smaller. That makes them last a lot better. The system is still used on the Cat/Elphinstone underground 2900's and similar. They get a lot heavier service and I still do them pretty regularly
How similar is this to the Expander type pins?
Only the collets. The Cat set up has the pin clamped into the loader frame bore. The outer end of the pin is clamped by the collet and can rotate with the bucket movement. Unless the pin comes loose in the loader frame bore there is no face wear. I reckon its as good a bucket pin system that Cat have had. Some of the newer stuff like the 993K's are overly complex and they don't seem to be able to get them to work right.
Got them in, one was easy the other one took half a day. Had to heat the loader brackets to get the collets loose. 3/4 impact on the pusher bolt wouldn't budge them. Then the pin had wallowed the hole in the arm a little. I wrapped a hard steel .030 shim material around the center of the pin real tight with hose clamps and spot welded the small gap. This fit really tight, had to spread the clamp end some more to hammer it in. Shop I use said this is how they fix them if they aren't to worn.
Now I know what this looks like in person. Yesterday I was loading out of a pit with an old 963 that had this style bucket pins. She's an old girl but still runs strong and will dig a load of chert.
I really like the 963a's if they are in good shape. Pretty tough old machine.
You can't beat them they are Hydro/Mechanical not electronic controlled. Set them up right and they stay setup. Later Bob
New found respect for the old girls.
I was mistaken on the price, they were a few dollars under 250 each. Just got the bill.