Let me clarify that I currently run a 770D Deere. With that said, I got a chance to run my friend's 140M yesterday for about an hour. The joystick controls would take several hours to get comfortable with. That was expected and understood. Steve didn't like them at all when he started until he had about 100 hours of gravel road maintenance under his belt, now he loves them. I struggled with them but totally understand the concept. I believe they would be very efficient if doing complex work that required a lot of blade and machine adjustment. I think they would be faster than old style controls in those situations. The general cab design is so different from what I'm used to. Overall visibility out of the cab is very poor. Good visibility toward the moldboard. Bad visibility every other direction. Especially behind the machine. I found myself turning around to look behind me because the mirrors didn't cover everything. Forget looking at the front tires or front axle. I felt like I was sitting down in the middle of the machine rather than on top of it. The cab is very, very quiet. Noticeably quieter than the Deere cab. Feels spacious inside because of all the glass. Absolutely no storage space. Kinda odd since there is plenty of places to put something like that. I didn't like the pedal design. It requires you to pick up your foot to use the brake or engine speed pedal. The Deere brake and fuel pedal are located side by side and floor mounted so the heel doesn't have to be lifted to use. Seat is comfortable. Arm rests suck, especially since you will have your arms on them all the time to use the joysticks. The 140M is on 14" Micheln Radials. My 770D is on 17.5" Micheln Radials. I really noticed that difference. The 140M didn't feel as stable and I could feel more tire movement. Also the 140M bounced real bad when trying to blade at 6mph. I didn't ask Steve how much air pressure he is running so that might be some of it. On the surface it appears the chassis design contributes to the bounce but again, it might be the tire difference. It doesn't appear that the 140M turns as sharp as the 770D. I haven't read the specifications to verify that. I'm just going by seat of the pants feel when turning it around. The rear steer was jerky to me, almost felt like it had slack somewhere. The transmission is extremely rough compared to the 770D. At one point I had a loaded blade and downshifted from 6th to 5th and again from 5th to 4th. The machine almost came to a complete stop before completing the shift. Upshifts with a loaded blade weren't quite as rough but still nowhere near the smoothness of the 770D. Reminded me of a 770BH we had in 1995. I kinda got lost in the joystick confusion but I think one time I was in 5F and changed to reverse, the machine put itself in 3R and I had to button back up to get it back to 5R. I didn't try a test of that to make sure. One other time I was in 4F and switched to reverse. I think that time it went into 4R. I just assumed the 140M would change direction and shift itself back into whatever gear you selected previously. For example I can move the 770D shifter from 8th forward to 8th reverse and the machine will start in a lower gear and shift itself back up to whatever you selected. I just expected the 140M to do that also. Maybe it was operator error on my part. The 140M has no guts. Obviously a lot smaller displacement engine. No big deal when doing light blading. But as I mentioned above, when I loaded it and tried to run a higher gear it couldn't handle it. I didn't have an opportunity to do heavy cutting to see if the torque/Hp and traction of the machine are well matched. Our previous 770CH on 14" Radials had way more power than traction. Our current 770D on 17.5" Radials is very well matched traction to power. On the surface it would appear the 140M would feel underpowered in those situations but again, I couldn't verify that. I never had the 140M in a position where it lacked traction. It always lacked power. Overall I think the joystick method of control is more efficient and could result in better performance in the right hands. It's definitely the way of the future. The general design of the 140M was disappointing to me. Poor visibility, no storage, no power, rough transmission, etc. These things could have all been designed better at no cost to CAT. JD seems to put those things at a higher priority. I wish we could get a CAT/JD crossbreed machine. :cool2
ovrszd, what a great explaination of the differences between the two machines. I felt as though I was sitting in the seat . Good stuff..thanks..
Very good comments on the 140M, I haven't chance to operate it yet, but I can partly imagine how it works after your explaination. By the way, find a 3D imitation of the CAT Joystick,hope it could help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czgb2sssxhI&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWyOWUlOjy8&NR=1
nice find, that first video is great.
Very interesting. I've seen lots of M's going up country on the backs of trucks, but have not seen even one operating. Not even in Jo'burg, or Pretoria, despite the on going preparations for 2010. Very interesting. Will deffinately keep all of that info in mind.
You did great... ovrszd - - Glad to hear you got on the seat and drove, you learn way more doing that than reading and looking. The M is a lot of changes, likely more than your mind was ready to handle. Give it another 400 hours or so, see what you think then. The armrests - seat - pedals - visibility thing, armrests adjust up/down, fore/aft, tilt, plus the wrist rest has an up/down adjustment as well. When you find the right combination of all that with the seat where you need it, then you can eliminate that concern and focus on the controls. Get those mirrors set so they work for you, my neck is touchy so I seldom turn to see out the back, just learn to use the mirrors. Your comments on the 17.5 tires vs 14 are interesting. Bounce on our machine is speed related, I would be happy to have that issue disappear. I still think in a few years the discussions related to M graders will be on different topics. Some people can't think they will ever be happy with joystick steering. On our farm we have an old Hesston 500 windrower with no steering wheel, it uses two levers and runs sort of like a dozer, the right lever has a trim steer function for fine tuning. My dad has run that thing for decades (he is 87) with no fuss, just what you get used to, I guess. You did not mention fuel consumption, that is a significant issue.
response Yeah, I messed with the armrest adjustments. Steve uses an added pad on the wrist rests. The killer for me is that the armrests don't move fore and aft with the seat??? What's up with that???? So if you are short legged and you slide the seat forward, the armrests won't adjust forward far enough so you have to sit with your elbows behind the line of your back??? As for the mirrors, the bracket they are on is not adjustable as far as length. So to get the mirrors outside the machine you twist the bracket on the vertical bar they are mounted to. Steve has his adjusted out as far as they can be and still be able to open the doors. Still can't see behind the machine, could easily hide a car parked on your rear!!! Bounce is primarily related to speed but can be adjusted for by changing air pressure or even blade pitch. I'm just used to more stable tires and a machine chassis that minimizes bounce. I don't think the M is that chassis. I have no issues with the conceptual design of the joystick controls. Although I think it would be extremely difficult for an operator to regularly switch between two machines that weren't both joystick or both standard controls. I didn't comment on fuel efficiency because I didn't think an hour in the seat made me a credable witness to that fact. Finally I think if I had came out of an older machine of either brand I might not have been as critical. But then my comments wouldn't have as much comparable value either. But I don't operate an older machine. I operate the current latest Deere model. The M is the current latest CAT model. I just feel that as usual, CAT puts operator comfort issues at the bottom of their priority list and something as simple as a storage compartment or ergonomically correctly mounted pedals or mirrors that you can actually see directly behind you with or some form of visibility of the circle and front tires isn't too much to ask for.
would luv to run a deer i run a 140h for a company here in amarillo that only runs cat equipment but would like to spend some hours on a deer heard lots of good things about the deers .... but will probably never get a chance