hello. I was just wondering if anyone knows if it's legal to operate operator training schools on an active quarry or opencast mine. Here in England some of my dozers are used at a quarry where rookie drivers are taught by a training school company.It isn't in house training by the quarry company itself but a totally seperate enterprise.I won't go into the hypocracy surrounding this so called 'training center of excellence' just yet but am curious whether they should be there at all.I totally understand that we need to train young operators up and in my opinion a seperate area should be used to train total novices until they can have a deacent level of understanding of the site and the machines that surround them.Then and only then should they enter the active mine to futher their experiance. My question is just about the actual legality of using mines or quarries for this purpose.I dont seem to be able to find the UK mines and quarries act yet. Many thanks in advance for any opinions or facts. Best regards.
Don't see a problem if it's in a separate area, segregated from the live mine. It's to be applauded if a mine/quarry has taken this kind of initiative. However, I sense a sub-text here. What is the real issue?
You need to check on a post in another thread. I'm of the same opinion. So long as the training operation and the "live" operation are kept completely separate from one another I personally see no problem. In fact I've seen a couple of operations in Europe that were run the same way, even down to all the machines being maintained in the same shop.
as owner of the older plant on this site I have had quite abit of criticism this year about the 'Old steam engines' and the'old men' that operate them.This has come indirectly from the instructor of the training school who also has a small number of new machines(that are up to their necks in finance)He has tried to get my work off me which is all fair in love and war but the quarry owners are happy to keep my equipment.I feel he's trying to get me out on the grounds that my kit is 'unfit for purpose' and 'past it'.My kit is in good order although he reported the D6 to be unsafe last month due to the steering brake been fairly worn out.I was happy with their suggestion to park it up and get someone elses in until mine is repaired.Imagine my surprise on Thursday when I went to check on the D8's to find that the instructor was using it to teach a rookie on batters without my consent just because he didn't want to pay to hire another dozer in.Not only was he using an unsafe dozer (in his words) but he had a total novice trying to use it on steep batters!.The lad was clearly struggling with this task and the instructor was getting way too close to him waving his arms at him to raise and lower the blade. I was genuinely concerned about the machine and the instructors safety that I made an official report to a quarry employee stating that the operation should be stoped and that an accident would likely occur.a moment later the accident did indeed happen(exactly as I had predicted) and the dozer nearly rolled.a quick thinking 980 shovel driver used his bucket to steady it.I myself then took charge and sorted it out with a D8.Nothing has been said yet about the incident but I feel something will in due course.I also have the day on camera both before and during the incident clearly showing the instructor and the rookie putting them selves in futher danger by parking another dozer directly above themselves on the batter with the blade up.......
I understand your predicament, especially having a vested interest with your kit rented to the quarry. Tread carefully with the quarry owners would be my advice, unless you're really good friends with them in which case a quiet word down the pub (or anywhere else off the job site for that matter) would more than likely work wonders. My one question would be - If your machines on the site are rented to the quarry owners how come the "driving school" gets to use them if they are a separate entity..? Is the "driving school instructor" a direct employee of the quarry, if not, who employs him..? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get my head around the situation.
nige,the quarry owners pay my bill as all my kit is just on a self drive basis.the men on site are good men and we get on very well.i'm not sure what arrangement the instructor has with the quarry manager.the instructor also has new machinery on a self drive basis on hire to them.I am hoping that nothing more will be said about it and it will hopefully just get brushed under the carpet but I like to be ready just in case.His embarrassment might make him keep quiet or he may get defensive and start mouthing off.I'm not sure he realises his teaching method was wrong at all........ will update later as I am going down today unannounced.
I feel your pain. I have to deal with training germs every day and I'm sure it's in the job requirement that they have a frontal lobotomy at birth ............. It may well be worth you doing a bit of digging to find out exactly what relationship the training instructor has with the quarry. In your shoes I wouldn't want either him or his trainees geting their hands on my kit without me knowing about it.
Nige,your dry humour is up my street mate. I went down to the quarry today on spec to see what the 'inquest' had traweled up.I know the instructor has had a meeting with the quarry manager on another issue and didn't bring up the incident at all apparently which suits me.It turns out that he himself was on the dozer and is been very sheepish about it all.He has also done himself no favours with some of the other operators on site due to his 'superior' attitude with them.Basically,he has made a right arse of himself and they are laughing at him. One more test is due next week so I have arranged with the muckshifting forman to take my d6 out of service on Friday night on a 'breakdown'. The instructor will have to hire in another dozer himself.He won't use my D8's as he says they are far too old and the technology is dated.That suits me just fine.
Being born in Derbyshire and having 30+ years of exposure to Big Yellow Iron can do that to a man. Let's face it the only way from there has to be up .......... I once worked with a GF who would've be right up your alley. Picture this - 6'-4", ex-Irish Guards, in the mob 20+ years IIRC, and built like the proverbial brick toilet. Wore his trousers tucked inside his socks and carried a swagger stick (OMG.!). When I told him one day that we couldn't get one of his 9G's up that day because it was too big a job he threw a **** fit. So I was like, "Calm down Mick (his first name actually was Mick BTW), Rome wasn't built in a day" - to which he responded in his broad Irish accent (and you'll have to imagine this) "I know. I wasn't on that job..!"
Starting to get a bit clearer now, Nicky. My only issue is, what is he doing jumping on your machines as he likes? Is he paying day hire? Regardless of his relationship with management, and I know you have to careful here, he is bang out of order and I doubt the management would condone what he does with your machines. The problem is, you're standing real close to this situation, you need to step back and look at it through our eyes. This could end up costing you all ends up, financially if he wrecks your kit and legally if someone gets hurt and heaven forbid the HSE get involved. Lock the buggers off when you aren't using them, if there's another episode like this there could be an issue around not taking measures to ensure unauthorised dickheads don't jump in the saddle. Make it clear next time one goes over, he'll be under it. Speaking with my trainer's hat on, if he has such a superior attitude he probably shouldn't be an instructor. And if he trains the way you describe and can't keep the legs underneath a D8 he definitely shouldn't be one. My guess is he's come up the hard way on high-drives and aircon and basically he doesn't like the older kit as he doesn't have a bloody clue.
This makes me laugh a bit, it's amazing how spoiled some "operators" have become over the years. I came up with mostly high drives, but with some nice low tracks as well. If I was offered a brand new D8T or a nice old open cab D8H, I'd take the H every time........cuz it's more fun. Just to clarify, I mean the type who don't have a clue, and wasn't referring to you with that ih100. I read it after I posted, and thought it could be taken the wrong way.
ih100.I have agreed with the muck forman to have the D6 'broken down' on Friday so it cant be used.It's a tidy 1992 D6H series 2 by the way.He would,nt touch the D8H'K's as I only allow 2 of the site personell to even look at them.I myself have been training up a young lad of theirs on one of the D8's.He loves it and after a half hour I knew he could handle the basic driving of it and was happy to leave him on the haulroads to get experience of actually operating it and 'putting it work'.He has now progressed under his own steam to working the tip area and he is working well.This has been done with the consent of the muckshifting forman initially when the dmptrucks were on tea brake.
alco.I will be removing the D6 early next year to do a few jobs on it so the problem will go away.To be honest I was on a D5N yesterday to clean up the batter and it reminded me just how different the controles are from a D5H for instance and therefore I can't understand why he uses the older one to train up rookies when as soon as they qualify and turn up on a site to operate a nice new D5N or similar,they don't actually know how to steer it or shift the transmission.only the blade controle is similar.
No problem, Alco, I understand exactly what you meant. Got to be honest, I can operate some of the older kit, but my old bones prefer the newer stuff - until it goes wrong. Nicky, that sounds like a plan. I'm glad you're getting things sorted.
TBH I prefer the newer kit if for no other reason that the air-suspended seats are easier on old bones.....
I liked the sofas on the old 6's and 8's, but not those long sticky things that grew through the floor. Too much pulling and pushing. And those pedals.... How old are you, Nige? Pre-war, if so which one? I'm post-Suez, pre-Vietnam.