Just want to start off saying hello! I'm an industrial design student in my final year, and I've decided to re-design backhoe loaders (specifically the operators cab) so that they are more up-to-date with current gen technology, while still being easy to control. This isn't just an aesthetic thing, I'm looking to re-design the entire interior so that everything flows flawlessly and hopefully makes sense. I've set up a short 10 question survey that would help me get a better understanding of what features are important when looking at operators cabs. I'm specifically looking at backhoe loaders, and ideally if you are an operator, or have used these machines your input would be amazingly helpful. If you could comment and tell me any additional information that you think would help me out for a project like this would be great! Thanks so much if you guys can lend a helping hand https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XHXB92C
more leg room when turning seat around
Erku, I looked at your survey, questions 8 and 9 only had negative choices. I like the controls and seats that we have. The combination backhoes are rear end heavy. If you could figure out a way to balance the machine so when your driving forward it does not bounce so much.
sometimes if a backhoe has a bouncy springy fancy seat and you are short like me. you step on the thorttle and hit a bump and the seat bounces and your leg bounces. you get into a positve feedback cycle of bouncing the machine and goosing the throttle wich makes it worse. i wind up haveing to drive by reaching behind be and running the hand throttle because the gas pedal is poorly designed.
gusbratz i have the same problem as you im 5'6 it seems to happen allot
Yair . . . Erku . Top marks for drawing the logical conclusion that a cross section of operators/owners/maintenance hands should be involved at all stages of machinery design. Too often I reckon industrial design folks get their ideas incorporated because of looks or styling. Things like visibility for the operator, and serviceability tend to be neglected in the quest for sharp appearance. I would add that I believe some things are changed for sake of change, if something works why alter it? I have had a Journalist tell me a particular vehicle had been in production for too long and the design was "tired" and "dated". . . to me that sometimes translates to "proven" and "reliable". Good luck with your design career. Cheers.
I have a better idea, re-design the zero tail excavator cab so you can fit and oversize operator, his coat, lunchbox, hard hat etc in there and still be able to wiggle your toes. Backhoes have been designed, re-design, over and over. Almost anyone that makes heavy machinery makes backhoes, and on their own design.
8 and 9 require answers but I don't dislike joy sticks at all, I learned on a ford 4 stick anything is a treat compared to them, and I can sit all day in my seat.I'm not a diva just glad to do a days work
I don't think there's that much wrong in the cab of a backhoe the way they are. I think there all pretty decent in most ways, but if the need to improve I think it's probably outside the cab.
I see how the question gives off that bias, I suppose I was hoping for the lesser of a couple of evils, if someone had to choose a feature they didn't like. Thank you everyone so much for your replies, this is really helping me get a grasp on what the issues are. For everyone who had a concern about the vibration and bouncing, hopefully if my research makes sense, it would allow for basically no vibrational feedback to the operator while driving/operating. I'm hoping this helps with general fatigue, focus, as well as irritating issues such as gusbratz talking about the bouncy seat. I am however looking into feedback for when the excavator side hits something hard (like a rock or pipe) that would allow the operator to 'feel' that happening. I was told that because electronic controls take away from a lot of the 'feel' of the machine, some operators do not prefer it. Thanks again everyone for your replies and input. I hope that if you notice something else that bothers you, or you feel could be improved about the operators area of the backhoe (or some general design ideas for the machine shape) you'll post it up here so I can look into it for my design.
How about some sensor's hooked to gauge's in the cab tell you roughly how deep your digging... that shouldn't be too hard.
grandpa , I can see where that would be handy at times but part of running a machine is having your hands, eyes and ass all hooked together .isn't that being an ''OPERATOR'' not just going through the motions . if you are totally isolated how in the world can you tell how the machine is working, the ground conditions changing or that 10'' watermain that's way over there. we used to do a lot of state aid road work and ditches backslopes and subgrades all done by eye, as I am shure a lot of you have, only shoot grade to check things here and there , generally real close. Friend of mine has a gps laser level thing-a-ma jig on his 450j , he swears by it ,says I am living in the past cuz we don't have one, he sent me a picture of his dozer under a waterfall last week, I suppose that fire plug didn't show up on that gps deal, go figure!
A few features I think need to be explored: Incorporate inductive probe technology in the boom/bucket to sense the EM field of a power line. Get within 12"....alarm sounds. Just like the probe tools electricians use. A basic set of automated functions. Someplace between "manual" and "you need a 3D terrain model and GPS on board" should be the ability for the operator to select "waypoints". Say you are trenching into a dump truck. You set the boom over the dead center of the trench and hit "Set WPT 1". You take a scoop and swing up over the truck. Hit "Set WPT 2" (buttons on the joystick). Hit "Return to 1". Boom moves back to dead center over the trench at maximum speed. Take another scoop. Hit "Return to WPT 2". Machine moves back up over the truck at top speed. Something like that? Other basic automation features should be things like depth limits. Again, no GPS. Just tell the machine "Don't let any part of the bucket go below -10.0' below the ground". Force feedback would be interesting, if you could toggle it on and off. I really see the future being simpler automated functions that can be used anywhere with no 3D model setup or GPS. Sortof like auto-travel on a lathe or power feeds on a manual milling machine. Its not CNC, but it does make things an awful lot easier. Good luck!
Feedback on feel? That comes with experience. It's a mixture of all your senses and feed back through out the machine. Listening to the engine, is the pump stressing more, did the bucket jump, ground conditions change, resistance through the boom and stick, etc. I run 4stick case but it's hard to find guys to run them anymore. Either can't or just don't want to. I think its really about ease of operation and being universal now. Key with pilots is the pattern changer and being able to swap operators quick. In my area utility hit tolerance is almost none, youd better not break anything with the bucket.
Grandpa - that has already been done. Go back about 6-7 years or so and look at Cats optional AccuGrade system on their backhoes. They had a system with sensors in each cylinder so you always knew exactly where the bucket teeth were relative to the ground and the pivot pin. It could be used standalone or with a laser for better accuracy. it was super accurate. You could dig a grave, or excavate/trench indefinitely. At the time it seemed relatively reasonable in cost. I wasn't in the market at the time, but a couple years ago I was, but found they had since discontinued making it due to low sales. Haven't been able to find a used machine anywhere equipped with it. Must have been a bit ahead of its time. Maybe they will bring it back when the market is ready. CraneInnovations - I got to test a machine several years ago that did almost exactly what you described in semi or auto mode - although no 'force feedback' . Even had the ability to push off and reset the machine to continue trenching. Don't believe it ever got to production, but it's probably coming in the future. As far as feedback is concerned, you just have to know your machine very well, no matter what brand or control system. Good luck with your study and keep us posted.