I have been questioned and emailed as well addressed personally face to face by people asking me of machines that are still out there they wish to buy, most often the Orphan Manufacturer Bargain Basement machines(IE Allis, FA, IHC/Dresser/Drott/Dressta, and a few others) I try to explain that parts supplies Most Especially for a weekend warrior use it once or twice a year machine is almost worthless, that yes some items can be modified/re-enganeared or just outright changed to a different standard but by then the expense or time wasted outweighs the value saved. Anyone else in these positions?
I read the thread title as
i always advise if asked: don't buy anything you can't get parts for, even new stuff if you don't have a local dealer. that's why around here probably 50% of farm equipment is deere. they probably have 50% of the dealerships- not that their equipment is any better. the owner of a dealership i worked at many years ago always said that the sales department gained him a customer but the parts and service departments kept him coming back
I make my living finding or making replacement or substitute parts for obsolete machines. I typically deal with a very small select make and model set though, lol. Even I am not a magician, my hat is often rabbitless.
Oh god I hate when we get an orphan or an obsolete in. And because it’s a cheap machine the customer is invariably a cheap customer who is employs creative maintenance practices. Go to take something apart and half the bolts are stripped out with safety wire wrapped around it, duct tape air piping boots, wiring twisted together...it comes in and dies in the bay for months
That tends to be a common song of the owners, bought on the cheap, trying to keep it cheap, just need enough repaired to get another day out of it, etc.
I see that all the time. Sales rep throws a lot of blue sky about how a machine can do one project and then be sold for more than was paid originally. The other lie is how a machine can pay for itself on one job. The truth is usually that the machine is one failed part away from the scrap yard. My rating system on used machines is fully operational, operational, runner, salvage and scrap candidate. The orphan ratings never go above runner. A runner and below is usually not able to produce at a point of making a profit on operation. These are the ranch and farmer machines and things like tail hold dozers. The common refrain is "it isn't going to be used more than a hundred hours a year." What are some of the other brands you can think of that meet the requirements of being an orphan. Terex and Euclid come to mind. Mack off highway trucks are another. How about Letourneau scrapers? Northwest and Koehring cranes maybe. A recent orphan could be Exodus material handlers. Probably a big one will soon be Cat highway trucks. How are people doing for parts on Timberjack skidders? A list of what you have run into would be real interesting.
More and more these days orphan does not even mean some brand that is no longer available. Manufacturers simply make parts obsolete which as far as I’m concerned make the machine an orphan. 40 years ago you could get parts for some pretty old machines. Now it seems anything over 15 years is obsolete. By most standards much of what we have here is obsolete orphans. Most is carefully maintained runners but getting parts is often hard or you make them. Volvo and now even Cat have laughed at some of my parts requests. I had trouble getting some parts for my truck that is not even 10 years old. They told me after 5 or 6 years parts start dropping rapidly.
A few times I have looked up on machinery trader for sale, and noted the number of units of a particular model that are offered for sale. If its not one of the top 2 or 3, I try for another model. If the number is in double digits (or lower) even a supply of used parts is very iffy. Even Cat and Deere have made orphans.
Deere has been working to orphan equipment for 40 years. Can't sell new tractors if you keep selling the parts to keep 40 year old units running. The Soundguard 30-70 series is a great example. Highly valuable, usable and capable machines that Deere is working hard to obsolete serviceable parts for so they can sell more tractors. We had issues finding parts for a couple 40 series tractors we had and finally got rid of them.
Same as Microsoft, we no longer support your XP so buy our new Win10 or else. Joe H
It like this with everything .try to get parts for a 10 year old washer ,dryer. Had a repairman tell me they are designed to last 4-5 years .
Some people will always buy machinery they know nothing about because it's cheap, some of it having no id tags, name or anything else on it anymore. Then they cry when it dies as it's being unloaded in their yard and parts are made from un-obtainum. They do not have the skills / knowledge to fix it either. One has to stop feeling sorry for them, nobody made them buy it. Ed
If you need Deere tractor parts that aren't easily available call Don's Tractor Salvage in Beattie, KS. Don is a former shop foreman for a Deere dealer, and Deere tractors is all he does. Cleanest salvage yard you will ever see.
I know 2 people that did exactly that. Zero research, but the guy selling it told them “ no problem getting parts” so they bought it. No skills to fix it or even understand the problem. Blunder after blunder on the so called repairs. Duct tape and baling wire would be an improvement. I can’t go over there anymore. There is just no helping some people.
AGRISON (2) ALLIS-CHALMERS (12) BELL (6) BUHRER (1) CASE (378) CAT (5761) CHTZ (1) DAEWOO (1) DEERE (1613) DRESSER (84) DRESSTA (58) EIMCO (1) FIAT HITACHI (5) FIATALLIS (35) HANOMAG (3) HITACHI (1) HYUNDAI (1) INTERNATIONAL (23) KOMATSU (1191) LIEBHERR (129) MASSEY-FERGUSON (1) MITSUBISHI (3) NEW HOLLAND (9) OLIVER (2) OLIVER CLETRAC (1) RHINO (10) RICHARD CONTINENTAL (1) SAMSUNG (2) SEM (3) SHANGHAI PENGPU (2) SHANTUI (24) TEREX (7) TRACK MARSHALL (3) ZOOMLION ( ALLIS-CHALMERS (2) BENATI (1) CASE (22) CAT (636) DEERE (88) DRESSER (4) FIAT HITACHI (2) FIATALLIS (22) IMECA (1) INTERNATIONAL (6) KOMATSU (27) LIEBHERR (20) MASSEY-FERGUSON (1) MOVEX INNOVATION INC (1) OLIVER (1) RHINO (3) Crawler Dozers from Top then Crawler loaders, at least Half are now orphans As noted Euc, Bucyrus, Wabco, Clark, Bell, Hancock so many names have fallen thru the cracks
With the advent of all electronic machines, it was a death knell for keeping them going past about ten years from end of production, the modules once deadlisted are usually not reparable, and if they require internal software, no dice. I didn't follow it, how did the farmers make out fighting Deere when they claimed they owned the software in perpetuity?
Deere retains propriety AFAIK Local Independent guys use pirated software diagnostics machines with some capability but the newer stuff Deere is the only source. They did have to add a convenience feature as Cat did to code read but I cannot recall to what value it is, do not work with them.
I have several orphans- a tamponed packer, New holland 450 etc. We only use them for ourselves and most the times we are going to the hydraulic or bearing shops and ignoring dealerships- cheaper- Never buy a machine unless you have manuals.--- People always forget about carrying costs and tie themselves into payments instead of patience!!
And this is why we only buy caterpillar equipment. May not be the best at times but I can get parts. Also if theres something I cant seem to figure out theres always help to be found.
You left out some of the best buys out there a Cat Truck, Sterling, Iveco, Isuzu, Mid size Chevy/GMC with 3116. Freightliner with MB 4000, International Max Farce, Anything with a DDEC V or ISX engine dating from 2005 to 2014. Freightliner Columbia, Kenworth T660, Ford 6.0 pickup, and lets not forget the greatest buy of them all and coolest looking, makes a great pizza delivery rig--a great buy.
Forgot the Chevy SSR!!
Thank you DM I was trying to remember Chevys waterloo--What a Pile and ugly too, another pizza delivery car.
Speaking of sterling im repair some leaks on ours tonight cant seem to find a number for this valve
Yeah, I have an EIMCO LHD (underground mine loader). Go figure there's only EIMCO machine on that list - their dozers and loaders are NOT common anymore. I think I saw an EIMCO 103 in Moab and that's about it! The good thing with EIMCO mining equipment is that it's still used quite a bit, unlike their dozers and overshot track loaders. Parts availability follows. Pillar Manufacturing up in Michigan sells a lot of smaller parts like brake and hydraulic components, and Mining Equipment Ltd. in Farmington evidently rebuilds the things. There isn't a whole lot going on with those older EIMCOs - Deutz engine, a big hydraulic pump, drive motor, and differentials. Lots of big-name stuff like Sundstrand. The electrical system is your run-of-the-mill 12VDC negative-ground. The machine has halfway paid for itself with only 100 hours (essentially bought new old stock); I've got full manuals for it too.
stone construction equipment, love have 2 in our fleet and some companies have taken up some parts for them but slim pickings and dont get me started on John deere our tracked skid steer blew up a final drive, sent to local rebuilder, told not worth it its beyond fixing, get a new one, great ok will do that, oh wait john deere doesnt have any in stock and no know lead time for seeing one, slim pickings on used ones as well. sending the old one to cr components to get it rebuilt as said he can make it happen direct
You missed one, Zetor easy to work on hard to find parts!
Where I grew up on an island in the SW Pacific dealerships didn't always have parts a available and shipping parts in from the States could take 6 months. So owners become inventive and made or had someone make the parts.Even new machine were orphans. 2 outfits still running Wabcos there, Goodmans and Yeatmans Bros use that philosophy today
Truck Shop, That’s a very comprehensive & contemporary list you have and I agree. Special mention, the Cat CT660. I had high hopes for that rig and rather enjoyed the product launch and hype, just to watch it fizzle out. There are a couple of them in my AO. That poor owner could not keep them on the road. Always at the dealer for some problem that couldn’t be fixed. “Cat Truck, Sterling, Iveco, Isuzu, Mid size Chevy/GMC with 3116. Freightliner with MB 4000, International Max Farce, Anything with a DDEC V or ISX engine dating from 2005 to 2014. Freightliner Columbia, Kenworth T660, Ford 6.0”
It’s surprising how much of this oddball gear ends up in bush Alaska. It gets purchased at auctions for cheap, some purchasing officer thinks they got a good deal. Until it breaks down in bethel. I imagine it’s challenging enough to maintain these odd-ball rigs when you have the typical resources available. Add the logistics of remote travel and freight and it gets stupid expensive. My former employer placed a Fusu in Haines, of all places. I don’t think anyone has mentioned Fuso, yet. Actually, not too bad to get most parts for except service info, engine diagnostic software and electronics. 2oo5 model with wedge brakes? Holy moly.