looking at new dump truck :Banghead will be an allison trans what the opinion on new engines MX13 or ISX12 the cummings looks simpler and easier to work on but there is a lot more paccars in stock pete and kw's.
More Paccars because they own Kenworth, and right now are one of only 2 options for engines in new Kenworth or Peterbilt trucks. Law of averages says they will be more prevalent. Myself, would not own a Paccar. Have heard way more trouble stories than Cummins. Anymore, I would never own a new truck.
I don't like the new stuff ether got plenty of tractors setting around just nothing to make a quad axle dump out of. been looking all year nothing in the used market thats any better than the one I already running and mine needs to be gone through (painted ,new bed ,typical 500,mile refurb)can't down it that long.
Having been a Kenworth tech, get the Cummins. Paccar doesn't have their issues worked out yet and even their engineers don't know what do when they don't work.
Thats kinda the jest I get from the shop guys that seem to be honest with me and not the salesman.
Only $850.00 for one oil change not including the filter for the wonder oil Cummins is using to stop oil consumption in ISX. Truck Shop
oil consumption? wonder oil?
Some Cummins ISX have had an issue of using more oil than normal. I believe It's Valvoline that makes the special oil that Cummins uses to stop the high oil consumption in some their ISX engines. We have an outside customer that has 9 550 to 600 hp units and one that is 370 I believe, ranging in years from 013 to 016. Three have had the wonder oil cure by Cummins. Run it for 15,000 miles dump it and go back to your regular oil. Truck Shop
Sounds like the stuff they added to the oil in Caterpillar dozers 60 to 90 years ago to seat the rings when all else failed. Run an abrasive oil thru it for awhile. Probably don't want it in there for any longer than they say.
I test drove mx13 455 with allison and a ISX 12 450 8LL. The paccar did not impress me any there wasn't good throttle response and it shifted at 1700 (I already have to allison's in mack/volvo's)I think it was in the programming good jake brake though. the ISX felt more like the older engines and seemed to pull better.
Our company owns 3 trucks. 2 roll off trucks, 1 is a MX13 and the other ISX15. We also run a tri axle dump truck with a ISX15. The Cummins motors have a little over 140,000 miles on the and the Paccar just has 80,000 on it. All 3 are 18 speed eaton fuller transmissions. I would not buy a Paccar. Ours consistently has small electrical issues with it. It usually is in the shop every couple of months for an engine light for something. The Paccar definitely doesn't have the history behind it like the Cummins. Also it is a few hundred more on service the Paccar compared to our Cummins. The Cummins to me seems to be the better choice. Although one of ours burns oil and the other just went through an egr cooler and a rebuild of the whole after treatment system. I would still be looking at a Cummins as a new purchase. They run good and the do a little better on fuel economy compared to the Paccar.
the first impression when I opened the hood's. There is a lot of stuff to go wrong on the paccar and the more you got the more you got to work on
Is there any truth to the rumor that a Paccar starts out life as a Cummins?
Yes and no. The PX motors are a Cummins rebadge, the MX engines are not even remotely similar to a Cummins and not affiliated at all.
IIRC, the MX engine is a worked over DAF engine from Europe. I got to see one of the prototype/test engines in a Peterbilt in '08... on the side of I-90 with a rod sticking out the side of the block. High pressure turbo went bad and she ran away.
Yes the PX used to be 5.9 and 8.3 Cummins or whatever the displacement has changed to now. Those engines were fine for the most part although did have teething problems with DPF. We took them to the Cummins shop for warranty work. The knew what they were doing and could deal with mother Cummins better than the KW or Pete shop who just threw on a bandaid and said it was fixed. But this question is about the larger engines which are European in origin and everybody knows that is trouble. As for the Allison shifting at 1700 or whatever, they put some pretty sluggish programs in them from the factory. Ours always needed to be gone over with a fine tooth comb from the engineering guy with a laptop in the passenger seat. But once that was done they shifted really great.
Yair . . . . I hadn't heard of that one old-iron-habit. It was pretty common to run a couple of teaspoons of Bon Ami into the intake of various engines back in the day not just Cat. Cheers
Thats the stuff. I did not know it was used in other engines as well. Makes sense it would have been though. This oil has to be doing the same thing, introducing an abrasive to wear parts in.
I don't see how that is possible given the state of oil filters these days. One would think it would all end up in the filter immediately.
What you say makes sense. Any idea on what is in this "miracle" oil to make it work. I can see only two possibles, a abrasive to seat the rings, or a overhall in a can to fill in the worn spots. I wonder if they use a standard filter or something different one with this special oil. I am certainly curious now. Hopefully someone can give us more info on what it is and does.
I have a hard time believing they would put an abrasivein in the oil as it would wear on all the rotating parts. I could see them use an oil without some additives though, or maybe a little on the thin side. I'm sure Cummins knows what properties affect the rings most without killing the cam. ISZ
We had the Cummins and we're not happy at all. It had some electrical issues, nothing bad but a pain. The truck had an 18 speed and I thought it was sluggish and the fast drop off in rpms made it hard to shift. We now have two Paccars, no issues so far and the drive more like a Cat. The Paccar get anywhere from .5 to 1 mpg better also. We got ours from Whited Pete and the salesman said they are now selling more Paccars than Cummins. He said he has several customers that are trading the Cummins in on the Paccar. He did say the 455hp with 1650 torque up to 2013 were not good but the new 500 hp are doing real well and are well liked.
Yair . . . I suppose some of the Bon Ami would end up in the oil but as mentioned it was introduced into the intake manifold with the turbo disconnected. Some of the low speed marine/stationary engines had ports in the necks of the manifold so the "seating compound" could be applied as a matter of course to individual cylinders. . . these engines could have individual cylinders refurbished as part of the normal maintenance regime. Cheers.
It wearing everything was what was bugging me also. Sure would like to know what the magic is.
I knew when I said something about Cummins wonder oil this thread would buzzzzz. I don't know what's in it [snake oil I guess] but I will find out if someone else doesn't first. The oil costs 65 to 70 a gallon and the large ISX holds 12.5 to 13 gallons. The 013 to present ISX isn't as bad as the 012 and down engines. We had three 2010's rated at 550 that burned a gallon a week from new till 400,000. Each truck was constantly in the shop it seemed. Because of the oil usage those trucks were always having a plugged particulate filter problem, plus each truck had them crack twice and replaced at big bucks. Cummins didn't have the wonder oil at that time, we got rid of them at 400 and not to soon. One month after the next owner bought them from that dealer two of those trucks had major engine failure, $40,000 worth. Not trying to scare anyone or talk bad about big red, just some trouble we had. Truck Shop
I don't think any body had any thing worth owning (engine wise) from 08-13. But now y'all got me wondering about these now. I would rather have a glider with a 60 series or a 6nz but I haven't found any thing with an allison have heard that they are out there just can't locate one in any specs