Been noticing many newer Vocational Trailers have returned to Solid Hub Caps/Packed Bearings, are any seeing this in Long Distance Trailers or even Front Truck/Tractor Hubs?
Way back forever ago when still a kid, I worked for American freight (previously Arkansas freight) they grease packed every bearing, trailers, steers, anything that didn't share lube with a diff. I can't remember the last time I saw a container chassis with wet hubs. I always look around for bad things at traffic lights. I had noticed some vocational tractors coming through Pre-Delivery when at Navistar with packed hubs. i just thought it was spec'd that way by some ol' timer who didn't want to waste money on seals
Some are, usually you find that with Tip Lease and companies like that. The problem that comes into play is when it lands in a shop and during service and someone adds gear lube because they see nothing in the window. In the olden days it was common practice grease hubs were painted red. In the olden days. With 75X90 synthetic the bearings last three times longer.
One old story around here was of guy hauling double loads of steel coils across the turnpike. Then one of them got a new trailer with packed bearings and it didn't make the first trip.
I pack a hay trailer for the farm and feared some one would fill them up but they dont look at any thing unless the smoke turns to flames.
I grease packed some a few years ago that do more sitting than moving and the farthest trip they make is about 2 miles this is what we used for them
Pack the hub well full pack the bearings and set at .005 to zero end play and will run just fine.
Yessir, more times change the more they repeat. Have grease packed more than my share from little single wheel trailers to the old Eaton truck drives with inboard and outboard axle seals, the older Eucs had a similar design greased bearings and seals inner/outer on axle stubs. Just did not expect to see and hear of so many coming back into use, greases are far superior than even 30-40 years ago withstand heat and pressure loads far better.
I heard from some cattle haulers that they were sick of wheel seals not holding up, and running all the oil out. Then they get dinged at the scale for leaking hubs. So back to grease they go. I'll admit I was considering grease for one that I couldn't get a seal to hold on. It was not a pristine seating surface for the seal, but I didn't think it was bad enough to not seal. Finally got one to hold.
Must have been either not packed or faulty bearing from the factory. My bet is they were dry as a popcorn fart.
It is funny, I thought I remembered a discussion on here years ago where the participants were all in agreement that grease hubs were the way to go, and that oil hubs got converted to grease when the opportunity came. I don't think most participants run the kind of miles as TS, it is good info to have that bearings last longer in oil. But is that because it is oil or because is synthetic? And would there be a synthetic grease that would do as good? One problem I might suspect is that packing bearings is kind of an art, and we all know how many artsy mechanical tasks get handled these days. Do you suppose the experienced or the green mechanic gets assigned to service a grease bearing job? It is a lot more fun doing an oil hub, that's for sure.
Is a LOT cleaner resealing a Oil Hub rather than sit and hand pack or even bearing packer load cones and rollers. Last several New to Me Grease packed bearings on a early repack as ran warm were found to have had NO Grease placed in the center reservoir, cheapskates. Have had several friends machines show up same way, no reason to save PENNIES on not filling the center with lube.
Oil hubs run cooler, check them with infrared gun. Cattle haulers get dinged because it's a cattle hauler, notorious. Oil bath seals go bad prematurely because- #1 Used a **** poor brand. #2 Did not properly clean surface area of hub where seal makes contact to hub. #3 Did not drive seal straight. #4 Did not use proper seal driver for particular brand of seal, which leads to. #5 Distorted inner seal race. #6 Did not check seal inner race for distortion and free movement and rotation after installation. #7 Did not properly dress seal area on spindle and spindle shows no uneven wear where seal rides. #8 Did not use proper equipment such as wheel dolly, or adapter on jack for air disc hubs and damaged seal installing hub over spindle. I change a minimum of one a week, sometimes four- trailer or tractor. I only use CR brand 46305 for trailer, 42623 for Wabash-Fruehauf, 47697 for drives and 35066 for steer and drop. I have all the CR seal drivers and never a problem, With CR drivers you mount the seal and inboard bearing and drive with bearing held straight on driver. If you buy enough CR seals and or ask CR will give you the drivers.
Wait, are you saying a socket "almost" the same size as the seal isn't a "proper" seal driver???
I was about to mention that as I read the post!
Can't justify packing center cavity unless it's a really liquidy grease. The old bearing grease of the 60's and 70's used to stay right where you left it. I'd pull hubs and rotors and see the marks the previous guy left in the grease. Grease doesn't seem to move without help, in my experience anyway.
What about the old block o wood in the corner, we shouldn't use that and a 12lb to drive the seal in?
At an average price for drive seals at $36.00 I suppose Harbor Freight has something on the shelf to smash it into place and mangle it.
I use a five pound-three swats till it rings.
I'm with you except I lay the block of wood on it flat and aim for the center. Still holding up a year later...
Mine. Made this about 35 years or so ago. 6" cast steel disc, and a piece of 1-3/4" C-1018 CRS. Drives them nice and flat:
Yeah, but, ya run the risk of deforming the area where the floating lip rides. As TS says, ya should knock her in with the correct tool. It takes the guess work outta the equation. BTW , regarding spindle seal surfaces. Does nobody use a flapper wheel or 3ft of emery cloth to polish the spindle of rust n scale. For really tore up spindles I've used speedi-sleeves, and Stemco seals with integrated wear sleeves. Those, you abso#uckinlutely have to use the installer. It's infuriating when you see a brand new set o shoes and some yahoo has half-a$$ed a seal or seal surface ruining the whole enchilada.
And since we're on the subject, did you guys hear about this kid in Colorado? Terrible for all concerned.
Used a great deal of CR Stemco and National seals years ago, used tge old style Grit Guard seal rings on Stemco and seal installed with inner bearing, with CR earlier style was drive in hub wrench into place with axle nut. Nationals could be either way.
Sometimes with CR seals it will deform the inner seal race on unitized seals.
Stemco Grit Guard are a turd, same with Stemco Voyager. When I change a seal it's {one ping only}
Never liked Stemco’s but what was purchased by the owner or shop and had to use. Actually preferred the Nationals until quality went to hell.
Always liked Chicago Rawhide myself.
Obviously the owner never replaced any and he liked repeat leaks to keep the shop busy.
What about the Colorado Kid?
23 yr old truck driver, inexperienced, hauling lumber. Brake failure,missed a runaway ramp. 4 dead, many injured a couple years ago. Sentenced to 110 years. Truckers across the country calling to boycott the state.
What was the cause of brake failure? Incorrect/no gear causing repeated application until they turned red and fell off? Failure to inspect/adjust? Or something mechanical? Last I checked there were 10 of them, and even if one was completely missing you would hardly know the difference....
Details are slim, haven't found any. What I have found is allegedly speeding and weaving. Was that a result of brake failure, or did it contribute to brake failure? Was it heat soak or fail to function? Why did he bypass the runaway escape ramp? It's been said he attempted to take the shoulder but another tractor trailer had already occupied the space. Age is another factor. This young man was only 23. Did he have proper training, had he been instructed on proper gear selection and to pre-select before the decline? So many questions and no one seems to have the answers. The judge was stating, I have no choice, the law is clear. Each conviction carries a minimum and must be served consecutively. The states attorney was a little over-zealous imho.
Never have had problems with packed bearings myself. My old 57 Mack still has grease packed bearings which I believe are original to the truck. I purchased from the original owner and he was adamant about bearing service. I have a NOS set of National seals for this truck which are still leather in the cabinet as are the seals in the hubs. They've been knocked out and remounted a couple times over the years but still don't leak.
That CO thing seems like a real dumpster fire on both sides, I'd love to read a real accident investigation not all the news crap. I much prefer oil hubs, they def run cooler. We use a 75/25 mix of gear oil and lucas hub oil when we do hub jobs, customers are happy, no call backs. Prefer national seals and metal stemco caps, I change out a lot of cracked SKF/CR plastic caps.
The second a driver pushes the yellow button in and starts to move he assumes responsibility for his driving and condition of the truck he is driving, Period. Even with E-log and or paper log he has to sign the VIR. If there was a malfunction with the air system or foundation brakes as a driver you are responsible to report it get it repaired or not drive it. About 6 years ago we had a driver lay one of our trucks on it's side in Montana. There were no injury's and no other vehicles involved. The first thing out of his mouth to Montana patrol was the steering malfunctioned. So a independent firm/lab removed the steering gear and tested it. It was found there was no problem and the rest off the steering system was in good working condition. All this happened because he fell asleep at the wheel, then lied his *** off got fired, filed a wrongful termination lawsuit that drug on for a year costing the company a ton in legal fees. The morning it happened about a hour later I was shown photos of the wreck. {I told the boss-it's pretty obvious he fell asleep, even the Montana Patrol/DOT said the same thing. People lie like a cheap rug!
I have used the big socket, the block of wood, a delrin block, and the but of a wooden handled sledgehammer to install seals. I swear you guys are watching all my mistakes and laughing at me. I do get along better with CR seals than National ones, but I get the national seals local and the CR ones are a hour away. So I'm not sure if its the seals, or the fact that the first time I get the national, and the second time I make a trip and get a CR and then try to do a better job installing it, because one of the nationals didn't hold. Anything is possible when I have a hammer in my hand.
This is the article I first saw on it : https://jalopnik.com/truck-driver-sentenced-110-years-for-deadly-crash-stemm-1848226110 The one thing that article didn't mention, is that he ran off after the accident- fled the scene. He had a interpreter during the court proceedings, but I don't know if that means no english at all, or that the lawyers are just covering their bases- so no chance of appeals because of a potential language barrier.
More to the story. Only so much you can get since AP all run the same story.
I used every thing and any thing i could find to put seals in and i had very good luck i even put a rear main in a 3406 with out the wright tool and it worked but now i have several of the drivers and a lathe to make them i sleep alot better.
You have all the make it easy tools. Your probably like me started off with a rock and a stick and worked your way to some stuff that you needed when you started out.
No, I took the time to get the right tools. I don't like taking chances and never wanted to roll the dice on a wheel failure that could cause a accident or worse. Just not willing to try that.
Depends who does the pre-trip, in many cases here companies have mechanics doing them and signing off. In that case if something is wrong unless the driver would be able to tell from driving it, it's the mechanic who is at fault. Also could be a million things going wrong that isn't caught in a pre-trip I can't speak for what is required there but until a few years ago the pre-trip here was very minor. Also not going to catch everything. I had a cotter pin come off a s-cam on my trailer on first trip out of the shop, the only reason I caught it was threw a hole in the deck while tying down equipment, had I missed it could have easily written off the entire unit and been very ugly, when the shop got the call about it they tried to brush it off like it wasn't their fault and no big deal. Ironically, the most throughout pre-trips I do now are after having something worked on because too many times something is messed up. I will bet anything that in a regular pre-trip most if not all drivers would not catch something so small, nor is it something that is specifically listed to check. Other factor is you could have brakes working just fine in regular service, but do a emergency stop loaded and they could fail.
Lets see--you have a whole in your deck-that is defective equipment by US and state Dot guidelines. The driver is responsible for his vehicle inspection report not the mechanic, the mechanic signs off on repaired violations and FHWA annual inspections. The mechanic is not driving the vehicle and is not responsible for logs or daily vehicle inspections, if driver finds a issue it is to be written out and passed on to shop for repairs and noted on company service work order. OTR drivers do not pull into a shop for daily vehicle inspections several states away. No mechanic should be doing daily inspections. Brakes just don't fail in a emergency situation, But drivers make poor decisions that lead up to a braking issue or lack of maintenance to the brake system either or. If you need to find a better shop if everyone else's work is messed up.
There would have to be a major problem with brakes if one panic stop because a kid runs out in the road after his baseball caused a failure. Now a if driver who does not know how to drive on hilly roads burns up the brakes trying to hold back a 80,000 pound rig that is not what I would call an emergency situation! And how can one blame the mechanic for the failure in that case?
The issue of brake fade has been brought up by every manufacture of air disc brakes. Their big selling point is the disc wont fade like drum brakes. Bull! But aside from that my question to them is--- Why is a driver experiencing brake fade to begin with? Obviously they don't know how to drive.
That's why I use Stemco seals.
If the Driver cant do his own pretrip he shouldnt be driving. The mechanic needs to go over the truck and or trailer every time its in the shop but if some does the pretrip for the driver and he gets 20 miles from the shop he notices something maybe wrong he will think the mechanic said it was ok i dont need to take time to stop and check it out.
Maybe I should have said "a spot where there is no decking". There is no requirement to have a completely decked trailer, you can have it open between frame rails if you choose. The trailer was perfectly legal decking wise. You are assuming all trucks are OTR, many leave and return to the exact same yard every single day. I know of one large construction company here, drivers do not touch ANYTHING. Every night there is mechanics who do the pre-trips and check the trucks and sign off on them. The drivers are not allowed to open the hood, let alone touch anything. They do it because they had to many issues with drivers putting wrong fluids in, not checking stuff, etc. While you may not agree with their approach, it is perfectly legal, and actually much smarter and more cost-effective. They pay a few mechanics to pre-trip 30-40 trucks a night, instead of paying a bunch of steering wheel holders to screw them up and not check over anything anyway. I wasn't referring to brake fade, I was referring to failure from a issue that would not be evident on a pre-trip and would likely only appear on a heavy brake application. I think you are over estimating the requirements of a pre-trip, maybe it's different there but it's very minor here and if you only follow the guidelines you could easily miss a ton of things.
While I agree with you if every company treated it like that they would never find drivers. Unless it is something glaringly obvious a lot of drivers wouldn't have any idea if someone is wrong or if it's fine anyway.
First-your in canada I really don't care about there regulations even though I trucked all through BC and carried canadian authority. Any trailer any truck with a full deck covering that has holes in deck down here is in violation. Second-you just said above that you recheck everything you have a shop repair because they mess it up. Then you say mechanics should do pre-trips because the drivers will miss something. The rules are the same for OTR as local there is no difference. A CDL is a CDL. When It comes to brakes-you obviously don't understand much how air systems work. Brakes fail because of neglect or improper use. If the brakes lost air in the case of the Colorado incident the maxi cans would have locked the brakes up providing the shoes, drums and s-cams were properly maintained. If those were not maintained then it falls to driver and or owner. Have you ever been audited by DOT? When they come in after several red flags/violations and or a wreck that involves injuries or fatalities it isn't good. They will want to see every work order and files from any piece of equipment from owner. DOT will turn a business upside down looking through all paperwork. They love to go after farmers and construction businesses because they know they are trying to fly under the wire. A friend of mine is a Washington State DOT officer-he spends 70% of his time chasing down local trucks, construction trucks and farm trucks because he knows there are tons of violations to be had. Tickets are written to the driver not the mechanic or owner.
Hell of a friend, lol.
If I wasn't in compliance he would write me a ticket also. He's by the book.
I see the judge just today reduced the sentence to 10 years.
Seems like a fair sentence to me. He really screwed up and needs to learn from it, but not bad enough to spend rest of his life in jail.
The main deal is did anyone else learn anything?