We have about 400 acres of pasture that are infested with honey locust trees. Some of the trees are 6 to 8 inches in diameters with sprouts ranging in all sizes. Since we use this land for cow pasture I want to keep the ground intact on the top layer, so that eliminates digging them up. We were thinking about using a forestry mulcher then following up with a herbicide control. Any ideas or past success stories. I am desperate as these things are controlling our pastures. thousands of them.
there are several threads related exactly to this, do a search for honey locust trees. There are contractors on here who specialize in clearing pasture too.
Thanks @skyking1 new to the forum but happy to be here.
I've never had experience with Honey Locust but I've years of experience with landclearing. Which ever way you deal with clearing, forestry Mulching or total removal is only the first part of a big and expensive job. Depending on how deep your pockets are depends on how big an area you can clear and maintain. My opinion is to divide up your land into smaller areas,knock them into shape and then move to the next area. The cleared area then has a higher stock carrying capacity there for that income helps offset further clearing. Forestry Mulching is the least invasive way of clearing but the stumps will remain and if these trees can reshoot they will. A vertical grab is another tool. It simply lifts the whole tree out of the ground roots and all without the need to dig around the stump, just like pulling weeds out. They then can be burnt, put though a grinder or mulched using a forestry mulcher.
I cleared 2000 acres in north central Texas, that was filled with Honey Locust. We used a forestry mulcher. I can tell you those 6" size trees are very hard to shred. You need at least a 200HP machine. I had a machine with a 140hP JD diesel. First pass over a Honey locust would grind limbs and lots if needles, but would shoot the whole unmulched log out the back of the Fecon mulcher. I had to back up over the remaining "log", and go very slow. It would then grind that darn thing into mulch. The trees will then resprout. We did not use any chemicals to control this sprouting, we just ran a brush hog over it rather low, about 3 times/year. That seemed to work for the most part, but you must keep everything mowed down all year long. Miss one or two mowings and you are in trouble.
Personally, I'd hire an airplane and kill all the trees first. It will take a few years. That way you don't have to worry about resprouts. Then you can remove the trees or not as desired, but as soon as you get the leaves off you will get more sunshine for your grass. Another solution to control small trees and resprouts is to get into the goat business. Lots of money in selling goats for ethnic celebrations.
I've heard not to try burning them down and that it makes the thorns worse. I don't know that first hand but I do have a few in the yard that are dead and due to be cut down soon, I'm interested to mess with the wood that comes out as it's supposed to be incredibly robust. Maybe siding for the door side of my shop...
This is the best way to do it. Recut at least 3x a year for the first year or two to keep the sprouts from regaining a foot hold. Otherwise, chemical treatments to the stump sprouts to kill those stumps off. For anyone NOT familiar with Honey Locust - this is what that tree from hell looks like. This one was only about 10"-12" DBH. I've cut some over 3' DBH over the years. The thorns do make good long lasting tooth picks and tire killers. I've got a customer that, even after I explained to them the situation, did not call me back in for 2 years and the HL got thicker and up to 12' tall in that amount of time. The thorns got beyond the tractor-safe length so I had to do a reclear and expansion of cut with the tracked machine. It's cheaper to keep it maintained than let it get out of hand. Large rubber tire mulchers handle the thorns without problems but the ground needs to be relatively flat for a rubber tire machine, in my experience. HL are a tough, brittle tree that shreds fairly easily but you need plenty of hp to get it done quickly without stalling the head all of the time. It's not a skid-steer friendly tree unless it's a young sprout.
Just to re-emphasize, not that they look it, but those thorns are no joke. I didn't think of using them for toothpicks! That's a great idea!
There is some on are farm . I know most places have to many to do this but a guy cut some for fire wood here he ringed them and left them for a year this didnt produce any sprouts . I have cut them down before and had sprout problems for years after wards. I have them over maybe 20 acres i may ring the bigger ones a little at a time ans spray the smaller ones. Treemuncher if it wasnt raining i would show you what happens when you burn the thorns off . One other problem is if you cut them and pile them to burn after some time they will get allmost fireproof. Then i have ceders. I want to find what is the cheapest way to clean some of this up that i could do my self.
Welcome to the Forums!
Old Doug, the procedure for cuting down Eucalyptus in Australia, cut at 12-24 inches to fall the tree then cut at near ground level and spray with Round up or similar. The spray must be done within 30 seconds of the final cut, after that the stump scabs over and spraying doesn't work. HL maybe the same
TORDON is your friend with Honey Locust. Have them here where they propagate two ways, from seed pods devoured by Cattle and Wildlife that deposit the indigestible seeds from them EVERYWHERE then by Root Sprouts. Renter here sprayed our pastures with a Home Made Concocted Pasture Clear formula. Mix pint/pint/pint of Tordon, 2-4-D and Crossbow to associated gallonage of water, increase gallons and pints to fill a 100 gal sprayer with booms that can be adjust above the tops of Saplings or mow them and as come back while short spray them, MUST Coat ALL the Leaves and Stem. we had several of the nastier parent trees suffer the first two years after that initial spraying of our pastures, since then there have been DOZENS of the parent trees die out as the mixture enters the saplings and then the root structures of the parent. Will take 4-6 years and retreatment is required every Two until they are decimated. then can access the more difficult to access trees, ring with chainsaw and then add SECOND ring, spray as make all cuts with Tordon RTU, be dead the following year. As to firewood, a Single split log PIECE of NO Spikes HL placed into a WOOD STOVE with other specie of wood burns almost too hot, very Oily, cannot place very much at all in a existing fire and NEVER add it to a Open Fireplace.
And I thought kudzu was bad! You can hear the kudzu vines crack in the summertime as they grow that fast but thankfully no thorns. The kudzu growth at our dump is massive, if we don't bring any loads in for 1-2 weeks it will grow completely across the road to the dumping face. Have to check on the loader from time to time to make sure it doesn't get engulfed. On the flip side kudzu is one heck of an erosion control plant.
I hear kudzu is edible at least. Not much a goat would do to those honey locust. They might keep the sprouts down if the tops are cut first. I'd be girdling the big ones and hack and spray the little ones. Look at the active ingredients to save some money, this isn't going to be cheap. Crossbow is a mix of triclopyr and 24D, Remedy is cheaper triclopyr. Tordon is the gold standard for killing trees. Leave them stand and weather, the little bit of shade from the standing dead trees won't hurt the grass. The trees I've killed with herbicide seem to rot faster than if they had been cut.
I would consider the Black Locust the Hell Tree. Just as spiky as Honey Locust and the thorns produce a phytotoxin. If even a small piece breaks off under the skin it will cause localized swelling, intense pain, and few other fun side effects.
Honey Locust thorns are that way as well.
Growing up in South Texas, I used to think scrub mesquite was the worst tree around. After being on this forum and listening to ya'll deal with honey locust, I think I'll stick with my mesquite and let ya'll handle the HL. YIKES! PS- At least mesquite makes some damn nice wood for the BBQ and fireplace.
How do "Honey", or "Black Locust" trees rip out with a dozer? Is there a problem with regrowth if they are taken out this way? I have a few to deal with on our property and they've not really been a problem but will need removed. The "Tree of Heaven" species had been a problem in my back yard but it you "ring" them level, duct tape the ring for a dam and fill the cut with sulfuric acid a couple times they die off and don't come back. I almost had a small "Jungle" of them in my back yard as they are prolific if not controlled. I deal a lot with lead acid batteries so sulfuric is easily attained.
The first winter after we built the house here dad left some locust in the yard the deer would jump the fence and dig the pods up to eat. We burnt alot of locust green but we had a pile of it from were we cleared off for the house that layed there 2 years i like to never got it burnt up.We had alot of lawn mower tire problems for about 5 years. Dad wished he would have had more trees sheared around the house later on. My skid steer is smaller i want to build one of the saw blades were you cut them like using a hand saw but then it wont push a very large tree into a pile. I dont care about the stumps so they can stay and rot. I am ether going to have some one shear and pile some or cut them my self and have someone push them up. I will probably do a test hiring a shear to see what it will cost in the long run.
My most productive day ever was a seek and destroy job for a farmer that had a HL problem. He called me in after several of his cattle suffered blindness due to thorns in the eyes. My first day I covered about 5 acres of medium thick total clear along a terrace full of HL, cherries, cedar and oak. I thought that was very productive until the second day when it was "destroy any/every HL you can find in the rest of the fields". It was sporadic cutting of 1/2"-6" trees and thickets of trees and I covered 22 acres that one day. This was accomplished with the Barko 937. The ground speed and horsepower of that machine is pure productivity when the terrain is relatively flat. I realize that this is not a DIY method unless you already have a 937. However, remember this, more $/hr for a bigger machine usually translates to lowest $/acre worked and results in saving the customer money. I've found nothing else that mulches as fast as the rubber tire machine due to its ground speed and horsepower. As for alternative chemical treatments, bleach used to be about $1 gallon but I hear that has gotten expensive. Trees also hate paint thinner and other strong chemicals, and so do I in my well. There is a dry granule product called Spike that will leach into the soil and kill every tree in the area. Depending on the time of year of application and species, I've had excellent results with this stuff. There are also "wet hatchets" that deliver chemical products into the cambium of the tree (think of it like a syringe for a tree) and ensure good dosing on problem trees. You might also do some searching on ForestryForum.com and other tree/logging/farming forums for more ideas on other herbicides and application ideas to control your growing problems.
When you apply a herbicide treatment to a cut stump, you only need to treat the sap wood, the outside growing tissue. No need to waste expensive chemical in the center of the stump.
One OH BTW, If treat a HL with Tordon, Any other tree with roots in contact will ALSO Die. I really did not care as want the damn HL Dead!! Can Dozer push them out or dig out with a Excavator but ANY root left in the ground and untreated will Sprout a Sapling or Saplings.
DMillar, would a mesquite grubber type attachment on an excavator do the job as a mechanical means of removal? I looked at this idea for the removal of Prickly Acacia of which there's 4.4 million acres at the last count just in Queensland, Australia. There's good reports from the University of Texas, Dallas Campus on its effectiveness.
Not for Honey or even Black Locust, all the Feeder roots have to either be Poison KILLED or Removed from the ground, Neither a Dainty or time efficient task. One 1/2" diameter four foot long root can nest up a half dozen sprouts all fanning out MORE Feeders with ever more sprouts.
Know if several farms around that mow them down early spring, by time they regrow Sprouts they use 'Pasture Clear' sprays and work to destroy al the HL organics in the ground. Will still come back, seeds lay dormant for years then decide time to run, then go all thru it again. Native Trees yet Invasive as all get out.
HL are easily controlled with fire, as with Western Red Cedar. But to many structures for easy usage of fire.
The best part of a mesquite grubber on an excavator would be piling them to burn without getting near the thorns. They'd come back, but more susceptible to herbicides, mowing, or grazing by goats.
We had a couple locust trees on our property. dad pulled one out with the tractor and the roots were insanely long
We have Honey Locust trees here, but they certainly don't look like that! I guess there is one or two benefits of a shorter growing season, and cold winters!
There are Black Locust and Honey Locust, Blacks still have limb spikes but generally minimal on the trunk.
We have honey locust, but they're probably not native, they were sold as thornless and planted a lot for yard trees. Then they got thorns, but not like THAT. So that might be why we don't have as thorny of honey locust in the north.
Thankfully, I’ve had no experience with Honey Locust, but I have killed many acres of Eucalypt with Tebuthiuron pellets (Spike). 400 acres would warrant aerial application. Advantages are.. almost 100% kill, the residual action limits regrowth for at least a number of years and you don’t have to lift a finger if flying it on. Downside is that it is difficult to leave desirable trees through the paddock.
If those poisons last that long, can animals (cows) ingest that stuff when they are grazing ?
Funny should ask Guy I worked with had issues with neighbors dog crapping all over HIS lawn Made the pup a drinking dish 10% Tordon Never hurt the dog, killed every shrub in the neighbors yard!! Everything the dog pissed on!
Reminds me of the loaded dog. (Old Aussie short story) No, there are no withholding periods etc. for livestock. The pellets dissolve after the first light shower of rain. It is not as toxic as you might think….at least not for humans and animals.
Yeah, the loaded dog is a good yarn, but I'm thinking for originality DM wins.
My neighbor used to use a pair of Belgian draft horses to skid logs. One time he was clearing the edge of an old field he hitched the horses to a Black locust tree while he was sawing. The horses munched on the locust bark; causing them to founder and they had to be euthanised. Black locust is toxic to livestock.
LMAO! Now I've got to thinkin'.....I could go almost hippie vegan solar-windmill electrified green and get off the diesel addiction. I could buy/build a herd of goats for vegetation control and keep them fed a steady diet of Spike to eradicate any trees in a work area! I could wander the world with my herd and build pastures from **** & poop. No way. I'll never give up my coffee or diesel....nor my guns. Ain't NO hippie blood in my veins.
Treemuncher what does it cost to have some one like you clear trees? I need to have a reality check i may never have the time to do it my self.
Treemuncher, just as well you added that last sentence, It was doing my head in thinking you'd become a Crispy Critter.
I'd wager two, or four semi truck type tires leaning against the trunk and some used engine oil would be an environmentally conscience way to control the vegetation once fire was added to the equation? True multitasking potential no?
Maybe not. Out here where fires are a regular thing, we have lots of species that sprout from the roots when the tops burn off.
Every job is VERY different in cost analysis and your local markets will vary, too. The 5 factors for mulching jobs are Size, Species, Density, Terrain and Finish Quality. I've seen jobs range from less than $500/acre to over $10k/acre. Most jobs fall in the $1k-$2.5k/acre range these days in my area for most of what I'm asked to do. I usually look at a job and recommend the machine needed to make the most cost effective approach. Generally speaking, bottom land softwoods are faster and cheaper, upland hardwoods most expensive. However, an overgrown bottom field with Sweet Gum thicker than a dog's hair is much more work than most any oak stand ever is. Bigger machines (hp wise) that are true mulching machines are the most cost efficient for the end consumer in my experience. The best thing you can do is get quotes from local contractors and go from there.
Common practice around here really. Of course the tires give the fire "dwell time" on the roots of the offending tree and surrounding ground. Lots of fields and ditches are "burnt off" annually to control vegetation.
Yeah most of our wattle species need fire to germinate the seed. I'm sure rc, Queenslander and tones would agree that they're lovely trees?
Yeah the national flower is all there're good for. Can't eat them, Can't smoke them, cannot eat then, won't keep the home worm and can't even build a home with them.
Eerily similar to HL here!! Cannot smoke or eat or feed to other specie as toxic, Deer and Cattle can eat seed pods and distribute as the seeds are not digestible. Fire drives the tree resurgence fiercely.
Fire will kill a lot of the standing acacia (wattle) species trees. However it will then germinate ten seeds to replace the one dead tree. Most wattles are actually very easy to kill, however eradication can be difficult.
This is a tree my Dad burnt the thorns off of.
Looks like the fire did not work. I see thorns.
They grow back ANGRILY!!!
Bingo
I don't feel so bad for having pear cactus, porcupines and barbed wire around here now.