I was browsing through Iron Planet and ran across this 2005 315CL with 1700 hours on it. If that was my machine there would be an operator(s) that would be standing in the soup kitchen line! I don't care what application this hoe was used in but abusing a machine like that is uncalled for.
thats very sad site!! thats what happens when people dont care,,its just a paycheck to them,,i cant stand that type of attitude,,and cant stand that type of abuse should go do the same thing to his personal vechile ointhead boy he'd probably jump alrite............
Looks like a rental! It's amazing how some morons will run a machine, especially if they aren't the ones making the payment.
Ouch..... maybe that 1700 was a typo... I hope.....
Man that is good likening compared to the one 290 Link Belt we have at work. The operator before my brother got it ripped off 2 belly pans running stuff over and last year while my brother was in the hospital there was something like 3 different people running it and they beat the hell out it. I know it is in a scrap yard and it is going to get dents and scraps but dented fuel tank and smashed engine rad and hydraulic doors are un called for. It is all do to the fact that other people don’t have respect for the equipment that is making them a pay check. I will get some pictures of the machine for you guys tomorrow.
man thats terrible, a machine taking that much abuse with 1700 hours, if i was that rental company (or contractor) i would be just a tad upset
Thats horrible When I run a machine and I gouge the paint on the counter weight do minor body damage on the machine it bugs the h*ll out of me.
Devils advocate here: Cant always just say poor op. Take for example, one of the mills around here is always fixing equipment because of the frenetic pace they set. It is all about production.
i dont know, unless it was involved in a horrible quarry accident or hes doin some SERIOUS frantic work it shouldnt be that tore up but it looks like (a) bad careless operator(s)
You may not want to look at this counter weight then. This is one of our 290's. I will get some close ups of it tomorrow.
I agree that pushing to meet production deadlines can put equipment into situations where it gets dinged up, but that looks to me like operator negligence. Sometimes I wonder why some people are allowed to be operators. I had an operator working for me running our 375 excavator. He was cutting the corner joint where two 60' 2:1 slopes came together. In doing so he had pulled an 8-9' boulder out of the slope. When he got down towards the bottom of the slope, he had the rock up close/against his tracks. He somehow lost track of the rock, and spun the machine around and slammed the rock into the side of the counterweight. This enlightened operating engineer couldn't figure out why the machine stopped spinning so he started ramming the rock until the back end of the machine lifted up over it and caved in the belly pans, the counterweight hoists broke, etc. At this point he was pointed in the direction he wanted to go and tried to start walking the machine forward but only spun the tracks. The genius then decided to put his bucket out in front of him (which pushed his back end down a little farther) and try to pull himself forward. It worked but the additional downward pressure on the back end of the machine broke a hydraulic pump and oil started spraying everywhere. At that point he noticed what he'd done and saw some other operators yelling, waving and pointing at him, so he shut down. I'll try to get pictures next time I'm on that side of the project where the machine is and post them. The machine got put back together but looks like it's been through hell.
those sound like quite moronic moves, i cant wait to see some pics of this geniuses work
A genious like that in a 375, that cant be cheap. sounds like he belongs on something more like a roller. Is this guy normally a good operator or what? im trying to figure out how he worked his way into the cab of a 375.
I had a guy put a tree through the radiator on a 345 when we were grubbing a lot. He had cut the tree trunk down to like 5 or 6 feet and spun around was uneven bounced in the area pulling on another stump and when it puleled out of the ground he smashed it right through the radiator! Sometimes the things these guys do get me going. Little things help all the time. What gets me the most is when guys say " O yeah that was there" when the doors hanging off its hinges.
tylermckee: "Is this guy normally a good operator or what?" No. When he hired on he claimed to be a finish grade dozer hand, which was far from the truth, so he got put in a backfill excavator. We didn't have any operators who would go fast while loading ADT's in the 375 due to stability concerns loading the heavy rock with the 7.5yd bucket. This guy said he'd do it, so he got to run it. He was decent until the previously mentioned incident. I fired him after the incident, but this is the real kicker. Since any company working within 75 miles of Salt Lake City is desperate for operators our HR Dept. decided to go ahead and hire the guy back on two weeks later. tylermckee: "sounds like he belongs on something more like a roller." When he came back, I couldn't believe it, so I put him in an 825G and I won't let him in anything else.
" O yeah that was there" Well that is one of the 3 basic sayings that will get you through life: 1.cover for me 2.O great idea boss! 3.it was like that when i got here sorry couldnt resist quoting homer simpson
That story about the 375 hurts the most:crying This 315 is in horrible shape. The "im still getting paid" attitude towards damaging a machine is inexcusable. :thumbdown The company I work for has ways of keeping this behavior to a minimum... everything from getting reprimanded if you even scratch the counterweight to a drug test and or time off for more serious incidents. The best deterrent though is giving the operator a sense of ownership, on the doors of a lot of our machines it will say "Operated and Maintained by: John Doe " Which I think helps along with having good operators who honestly care what shape the machine is in. Letting a machine get banged up like that is also a safety risk when you think about it, if someone can do that much damage cause they "forgot" something was that close, what happens if that was a power line, another machine, or god forbid a person? OK, sorry... I'll get off the :soapbox and let it be at that:my2c
I think its operator abuse judging by the numerous scratches and dents all over the machine. Some of the scratches look older and some newer but no machine should look like that whether its 1700 hrs or 17000 hrs. :nono A machine should not be abused for all the reasons above but also because you're gonna have a hard time selling it with it looking like that. I know I wouldn't even take a second glance at it because "battle scars tell the tale of war".
Damage like THAT. Hi, Folks. WHAT am I doing wrong? In over 42 years of full-time operating, I haven't done THAT much damage to ALL the machines I've operated combined. For mine, it IS excusable - - - - if a tree fell on it (But what was he doing there in the first place?) or if he happened to get hit by a rockfall (But what was he doing there in the first place?) or if some clown ran into him. Or if the boss got on the machine at smoko or lunch???????????? LOL. When I first started operating, the guiding influence for most operators was taking pride in the job they left behind them. These days it seems the feel of the pay packet in the lunch-hook is the only thing a lot of them care about. Oh, and getting to the boozer by the shortest possible route. Yeah! I know. The 'Good Old Days'. Well, I'm here to tell you that there were some rather undesirable types operating back then too. It just seems looking at it from here that there weren't as many. Maybe I'm getting alittle forgetful in my dotage. Unfortunately, I had the dubious privilege of working with one of these undesirables for a couple of hours today. He is almost my age (Did I hear some smart-a** say, "Nobody's THAT old"?), well about 50-52, and lays claim to being a GOOD loader operator. He was on a Cat 988B loading me in a Cat 769D and another bloke in a 773B. We were both being rattled around in our cabs like ping pong balls in a tumble dryer. Now maybe he was just having an 'off' day but I doubt it. The rear wheels of the loader were off the ground about every second bucket he threw in the truck and they were off the ground EVERY time he threw a bucket of over-size rock over the bank to the floor below. And 'threw' is the operative word here. If he gets on a loader again and starts loading me the same way again, I will TELL - not ask but TELL - him to slow down and be more gentle. If he doesn't do it, I'll just park the truck and head for home and he can explain why I did so to the quarry management. I don't need that at my delicate age. LOL. 'Sides, I'm just too old to put up with that sort of crap any more. Especially when I've been doing better for 40+ years. There is almost NO damage to a machine that could not be avoided with a little bit of care. I ran a Cat 953B with A/C cab and even OUTSIDE rear view mirrors on the upper part of the doors for over 2 years and put one - repeat O-N-E - scratch on it, when a rock balanced on the ripper beam and came up with it to put a small dent about the size of the end of your thumb in the panel under the radiator. You can't see the middle of the ripper beam from the seat. I did light and heavy clearing, rock work, loading trucks, cutting to levels, working in tight spaces, steep slopes, in fact everything that they threw at me. Almost NIL damage. Even the bucket leveller still worked. Two months after I got off it and started running the firm's Cat D5B dozer, both mirrors were gone, one door was bent where another operator had chain-sawed a tree down on it and the other door was bent where a mug float driver had put it over the side of the float. C'est la vie. And I don't really think that it made the boss appreciate me any more. His attitude was still the reason I left 2 years later. Now how about that? Could that sort of attitude from employers be a factor in this sort of damage? Or is it the other way around?
Sayings Of Note. Hi, Chevy94. Quote: "" O yeah that was there" Well that is one of the 3 basic sayings that will get you through life: 1.cover for me 2.O great idea boss! 3.it was like that when i got here" Unquote. Reminds me of the derelict who was rescued from the burning abandoned house. When the firemen asked him if he'd been smoking in there, he replied, "No, it was on fire when I laid down in it." Yeah! Right!
I sure wasn't saying that wasn't operator abuse. I think Deas made my point. Why wasn't he more appreciated?
You know after thinking about what I said I would like to clarify: I wouldn't let my machine get to that stage of deterioration. Not to say there wouldn't be multiple hack lever pullers (I really don't like using the word "Operator" to describe a hack lever puller) in the soup kitchen line. Unfortunately being managers and owners is like running an adult daycare- sometimes. That is the tough part of the job. But I am fortunate that I have some really good Operators. My hoe Operator keeps his cab immaculate. The cab is clean, the machine is not beat up or scratched and he has his CD and MP3 player hooked up to a FM modulator - just a neat guy and a very good operator. :notworthy If I run his 325 I am always cleaning the floorboard and wiping it down on the inside. I have another artic driver the same way. You better not run his truck and leave it dirty or heaven forbid put a scratch on it. And by the way the 2 above mentioned Operators both have '06 models the 2 newest machines in the fleet. I don't want to use the term Operator for every person that runs equipment - an Operator is a PROFESSIONAL. Here's to all the Operators out there :notworthy :notworthy :drinkup You have my utmost respect.:usa
I agree, if that was my machine, that guy would be out of a job.....at least with us. We have a 2001 315C with 4,300 hrs on it and it looks almost brand new. We do alot of lot clearing with it too.
Operators Vs 'Lever Monkeys' Hi, CM1995. I once levelled a house site for a pilot/pilot instructor who sounded rather wise in the ways of people using machines. His thoughts and ideas were specific to his line of work in the flying game but they translate pretty well to our industry too. One of his comments about the level of intelligence required to do something has stuck with me ever since. "You can teach a monkey to ride a bike. When the chain comes off, the monkey is stuffed." There are, unfortunately, a LOT of lever monkeys out there. Having said that, I also have to admit that some employers bring some of this on themselves by always thinking that their operators/staff are dumb and incapable of constructive thought on their own. They also don't give their employees credit for their efforts. The bloke I mentioned above that I left because of his attitude never seemed to get his head around the notion that his operators were/are the public face of his company. It's his operators that the various building supervisors, construction managers and other clients are dealing with every day out on the site. The boss is mostly just a voice on the other end of the phone. It's also his operators that determine the quality of the finished work that they leave behind - which in turn determines what kind of reputation his business will ultimately have. He had about 30 years of levelling house sites as his experience base when I left him, exclusively using track front end loaders with 4-in-1 buckets. I had over 40 years of doing all manner of different jobs with all manner of different machines. On top of that, my main specialty is dozers, yet he still reckoned he could tell me how to run a dozer when he bought his very first dozer, a Cat D5B. He couldn't level a house site with it yet he wanted to tell me how to do it. And he treated all his operators the same, as dummies. Give a dog a bad name??????????? Ready for a surprise. This bloke's son is every bit as bad at this as his father. That's not to say that there aren't dud operators/aimers/lever monkeys out there but some employers don't do a lot to help their own cause either. A good operator is not necessarily going to keep his cab or his machine spotless but he IS going to do GOOD work with it and look after it in the process. He WILL check the oils and water at the start of every shift, grease it regularly, look for leaks and loose, broken or worn parts, monitor the gauges, keep one ear tuned to the machine for any different noises and generally be on the alert for any potentially expensive problems. He WILL take care not to damage the machine or anything else in his work area and he WILL take care not to damage his own reputation or that of his employer while doing the job. I respect good operators AND GOOD employers. There are some of both for whom I have a little less respect, to put it diplomatically - which is unusual for me.
I expect the Operators to do a daily check of the machine, notify the supervisor if any problems in addition to protecting work in place and producing quality work. If they are not capable of doing these things then they are not Operators. But the true character of a person is in the details IE: keeping the cabs clean and taking pride in their work. This is what seperates the good Operators from the great Operators. That is why the great Operators get their choice of the newest equipment.:thumbsup
Employer/ employee relationships are a two way street. The Operators are not the only thing that determines a businesses reputation although they are a very large part of it. Running an excavtion/construction business is not just what goes on in the field. You spend many a sleepless night worrying about payroll, collections, future workload, insurance, taxes, legal liability, workers comp., etc, etc. As far as the boss being "just a voice on the other end of the phone" is akin to saying an Operator is just a warm butt in the seat. Estimating, financing, cash flow, revenue and job backlog are VERY important items in running a successful business. To get back to my point is Employers cannot operate a business with out Employees and Employees do not have a means of making a living without an Employer. The Employer has a responsibility to pay "an honest wage for honest work" and the employee has a responsibility to "give and honest day of work for an honest day of pay". It is also the responsibility of the Employer to run the company in such a way that they can provide job security for their employees - which factors into alot of decisions I make.
CM I think what Deas was saying is that to the client and general puplic. Not that the owner does nothing. Only that the owner is the office, not the store front so to speak.
I agree that employees are what the general public sees but for a small company like mine there has not been a client that I have not personnaly met with on a number of occassions both prior and after the sale.
That 'voice on the phone'. Hi, CM1995. I agree wholeheartedly with you about a boss being more than just a voice on the phone. What I meant and I stand by it is that on most of their jobs where they are using this company, the clients ONLY get to see the operator. Many of them may have met that particular boss at some time or another as he has a LOT of repeat customers, like 30 years of repeat business in some cases. So he must be doing something right. And every operator is a permanent employee, provided with a company utility (pick-up to you U.S./Canadian readers.) which has a fuel tank in it for re-fuelling the machine, a tool box to store the laser gear and various other items and carrying space for several 4 gallon drums of various oils. Each employee also has a company mobile phone. What each employee DOES NOT have there is an employer who will treat him with respect and dignity. F'rinstance, the first 4 years I was with him, even though I asked to be paid only two weeks annual leave each Christmas as I wanted to take the remaining two weeks later in the year, I was paid the full 4 weeks, only allowed the two weeks over the Christmas/New year period off and not allowed to take any further leave during the year. One year, I even worked through Christmas/New Year repairing machines for the next year. He then didn't want to allow me 2 weeks off in the middle of the year to take a trip, even though I had had no break over the holiday period and in spite of me telling him that that was my plan before the Christmas break. I went anyway. There is not one of his operators who likes him as a man. They sort of respect his ability to keep the work coming in and that fact that they get paid on time and correct weight but that is about it. Hell, most of his customers and sub-contractors don't even like the man. Or his son. And this man and this busniness are NOT an isolated case. I have seen a few like that. The only reason they manage to stay in business is the quality of the work done by their operators and other employees.
Hey Deas- First of all I cannot begin to understand what goes on in a company that is thousands of miles away from me. What I am saying is what I believe and practice every day. Of course I cannot speak for every owner or operator out there - just my personal convictions and experiences. This particular owner you describe is not someone I would try to defend or justify much less work for. But here in the US we have a free market workplace which means you can either decide to go out on your own or work for the company of your choice. What I have found out is that there are more WORTHLESS LEVER PULLERS calling themselves Operators than true Professional Operators. My suggestion would be that you go out and get the financing, licenses, office, overhead, operators,ect and take the business away from such hack owners that do not treat their operators right. It should be easy since most customers do not even like the owner anyway. Quote "Hell, most of his customers and sub-contractors don't even like the man. Or his son." unquote. And do not get me wrong - I am not being a smart aXX, I am just one to see an opportunity to provide a better service at the same price and make a profit in the mean time.
I keep the equipment that i run in good order, i dont get so anal as to keep the floor swept clean as I don't see the point. I check my fluids and grease daily, keep my windows clean, and i wipe the bulk of the dirt out of the cab about every week or two. If i see something loose/broken i take the time to stop work to fix it. Its hard to unerstand how someone can trash a machine so bad so quickly. I have swung around and smacked my counderweight into something once, i was clearing a small trail in the woods and forgot to check behind me before i swung, careless mistake but it happens.I got lucky and all it did was put a dent below one of the side doors.
My point is how much time/effort does it take to clean up everyday? 5 mins. at the beginning or end of the day? The machine needs to come to operating temp. in the morning anyway so why not take a little extra effort to keep your cab clean.
You take care of it and it will take care of you. DP
Hi There, Just had too add my thoughts on this one!! From across the pond:waving I simply cannot understand how these muppets can do this kind of stuff to a machine it really annoys me to see equipment being abused. It saddens me to report that unfortunately we have our fair share of these kind of guys here in England. I myself am very particular about keeping a clean,tidy & well maintained machine infact my nickname on site is "Polish" !! I just think it says something about the guy in the seat, and if you keep on top of things it doesn't take long to keep it tidy. Here is a photo of my current mount a Hitachi Zaxis 180 with 1,775 hrs on the clock, Slightly different than the poor Cat at the beginning of this thread!!
Whats with the luggage rack on the cab.
Hi Lashlander, The "Luggage Rack" is used to carry Vandal Screens which are not in there in this photo. Vandal Screens are much needed I'm afraid to say in this country as some of our awful youngsters seem to think it is acceptable to go around smashing cab windows!!! I hope this explains it for you??
I think a lot of you are jumping the gun on some operators. I have had 2 machines I have completely destroyed not because I'm a "lever puller" because that is what I was given to do the job I was told to do. I work to get paid I'm sure most of you wouldn't do this for free, free don't put food on the table. I do take pride in my work and I'm probably my worse critic, but I do what I have to do. I don't believe that there is hardly one of you with more then a few years in the seat that have push a machine hard then you should of or put it in a position where damaged could of occurred. I agree, but when the boss wants it done on my time.
Yes, Thanks for the reply. I've been on jobs like that. I don't understand what is so fun about vandalism. Sad Sad!:guns
No I can't Agree with that one Dozerboy I Have always done the job that is asked of me but In 25yrs of operating I have NEVER done any damage to a machine apart from the odd light scratch which I have always sorted the next day!! There are simply no excuses for machine abuse, I guess the fact that I used to run my own machine business has made me all the more careful. My Late Father always tought me to respect the kit you work with, at the end of the day it is that kit that puts the bread on the table. Dozerboy, Good luck with the wedding by the way
I unfortunatly know where dozer is coming from. My current boss is the same way. He smashes stuff and says its my machine ill do w/it what i want. HE is the hardest of anyone on machines, granted they are his machines to do w/waht he wants, but when the owner has no respect and doesnt care, most employees and see it and dont care. Not right but the fact. I also know where dozers coming from on the "do what your told, do what you have to." I got bills like everyone else, I aint looking to get rich, I want a decent wage and will give you a good days work. But like i said I ahve bills to apy. When the boss tells you to take that machine put it on that truck and get it to &#@)_ delivered over there, or taken there, even if you know its not good, you know its not right, you have to do what the boss says if you want to keep your job. We have loaded machines on trucks and broken frames. You know its over loaded you know its not right but if its the biggest/only truck you got and the boss says to do it what sdo you do if youw ant to keep your job. You do your best and try to stay safe.As fror doing stuff on your own time for free depends on the boss. Ive been at companies that id show up early punch out and get asked to do something and never thoguht twice. I knew id need a day off and the boss would say ok, or id need something and hte boss would give it to you no charge, let you take something home over the weekend, dont mind helping those guys yout. My current employer I woudnt do anything on my own time for him, dont work w/me i dont work w/you. Dont help me I dont help you. IF you treat me w/respect and help me out ill help you out no problem.
This is starting to sound a bit scary!!!! You must have some crazy bosses out there in the US of A Please tell me these guys are in the minority!!??:Banghead ointhead Look after that equipment you all :notworthy Nick
I sat with a truck driver once as a labourer teased us for being anal about the condition of my backhoe and his dump and we laughed and I told him since I spend more time in that hoe than my own bed why shouldn't it be clean?,to this day the labourer still doesn't get it.
Dozer Boy I agree with you 100 % on this with the boss. The guy I use to pull for I now operate for. I can under stand machines like our Link Belts being dented and scratched because of the environment they live in, but I don’t under stand how a machine that digs dirt all its life winds up like the firs picture. The bottom line is I do with the machine what the owner tells me to when he is there and I do what is right when he is not. When he is there and wants something moved or loaded and you have to run scrap over and you tell him it might damage the machine he yells I told you to do it so I do it and say OK.
self drive heres a machine delivered to me on self drive hire its a 2005 model ,the cab was so bent the front window would not fit ,apparently it was hit by another machine glad i was not sat in it ,the 4 foot bucket had teeth missing the 18 " was so bent it could not be used. it constantly broke down due to crap in the fuel tank . im with dozerboy and tylermckee i keep them greased and check fluids and brush them out when needed the jcb 3cx i have at the moment has not seen a pressure washer since new in 2003 its never been back to the yard
Thats what I was saying earlier. Not all bosses want things done right. Ever heard the ol saying theres a right way and a wrong way and there is my way to do things. Do them my way or hit the hiway. So if you want to get paid which way you going to do it. Because no matter how much you try and convince some that there is a better more efficent. less destructive way to do things it is still there way or the hiway. Now smoe my take the high road but most cant afford to.
:iagree :exactly That is exactly my point.
Here is the next problem, so let say you do the "right thing" and stand up to the boss. You get fired, now does the boss care on why you stood up to him or do anything to rectify the situation? NO, but he will make damn sure that the next guy is ignorant or more with the program. Now you have a guy that don't know or care about the damage and doesn't take precautions that you might of. IMO that could be a lot more hazardous situation. For the most part yes. I have had the same thing happened to me several times. In fact I now work for a company that doesn't mind me taking the time to take care of there equipment.
around here we call them hackers
Looks like one of our rental Kobelcos! So far this year I have replaced numerous windshields, many side moldings, battery boxes. I have done 2 complete cabs and rewelded 3 fixed thumbs that were ripped from the boom. Cab steps and railings, mirrors and boom lights pretty much round out the list. I have to muck out the cabs, everything from spilled over spit cups, clothes, old food ect. We deal with a few good, professional operators. I treat em like gold when I go to service their machines! Part of the cost of a rental goes into the upkeep from abuse. And of course its the jack leg SOB that abuses the machine that gripes about the rental cost and when it breaks down. Go figure!
I worked for a company for 5 years that were hacks. I needed the money, so I stuck it out. They would scoff at me for washing the truck I drove, complaining that they wouldn't pay me for the added time at the end of the day. They refused to buy paper towels and windex for cleaning the glass. Armour All, windex, wax, car wash all came out of my pocket. They'd even go get MY paper towels out of the cab when they ran out in the garage. Unfortunately, it took me a while to break myself of some of their bad habits. I still tend to work too fast trying to push to get done ahead of schedule, that's a habit that's hard to break.
Our 1996 CAT 312 had 6600 hours on it when we sold it and although it was scratched on the counter weight(not a whole lot but still), it was still in very nice shape. We have used it for all types of excavation, building demoliton, making rip rap, and many other things and even when you used the tracks to help get a rock or large tree stump in the bucket we never once let it go into the cab or any other part of the machine. Was cleaning up after a barn fire a few years back and brought a steel beam up around the tracks and it bashed the window in and dented the corner of the cab a bit, it was my own machine and boy was I P!$$ed. But I look around and see some of the other machines in our area and think, you know the few little mishaps with ours aint too bad compared to what some guys put theirs through daily.
Hi Xcopterdoc, I know what you are talking about, because I have had that extra treatment a lot when using rental equipment. I think mostly because the mechanic knows that you are knowledgable about the machine. I do keep the windows clean beacuse I can't bare to look out of dirty ones and I do sweep the cab out. I don't abuse a machine but on the other hand I will not nurse a machine either! I have worked with guys that do abuse things or don't care, likewise I have worked with operators that spend more time cleaning and fussing round a machine than they do putting it to work. I would not want to employ either type given the option, they both make me burr up. I mentioned in a previous post that I ran a brand new HD7 Fiat Allis about 15 or 16 years ago on a job in Italy. For a lot of the work I needed a bigger dozer,mainly due to the type of material I was working in. I made this fact known but they would not get me one. I worked that dozer and did not abuse it, other than the fact it was having to work in material that in my opinion it was not really designed for and that I am normaly under pressure to get a job done as soon as posible. That machine was breaking up inside of a year. In my opinion that was not my fault A) They should have got me a bigger machine. B) If it had been doing top soil respread or some other light duty work it would have held together better for sure. I admit, I didn't nurse it , I couldn't I needed to get the job done. I have had other situations like this one, it is not an isolated case. Where I have really seen the wheels fall of is when their is production bonus invloved. I think I would get to much flack from a lot of you guys if I was to give details of some of the things I have seen done and at times been a part of, so I won't go there!
Hey! I think I used to work with him. If it wasn't him, I'm pretty sure he and this guy were related...lol. Brian
some people don't care that it's your money they are destroying. i had a highschool kid tell me he had run a three wheeled terra-gator many a day on his home farm. then he put mine on it's side. I'm still paying my insurance deductible down! health and comercial! stupid SOB wasn't wearing a seatbelt the proceeded to get out of the cab and walk through 15 tons of granular statrer fertilizer in flipflops! EERG shankes fist and this was only a few weeks after he's done with OSHA courses i paid for him to take !! erg shakes fist:Banghead :guns :cussing
I know were you are coming from. I was on a job a few weeks ago and the union hall sent two young guys out to the job. I asked if they could run a skid loader and they said yes. I had one grade an area, and told him to stay 3 or 4 ft. away from a fiber optic cable. (marked it and showed him) Few minutes later he cut it. That got fixed and I had the other one running my 953C Loader and he had the bucket as high as it would go running on a 2.5 to 1 slope I told him to keep the bucket low, Next thing I know the loader is on it's side. A couple more things happened like that and I sent them both back to the hall. They did not care and did not figure out anything. One told me he would be on a job tomorrow so he did not care to do things right. I have owned a company and worked as a operator. So I have seen both sides. I guess the best thing to do, is do the best you can and try to please your boss. I know that some bosses are impossible to please.
Hrm, takes pride in his machine, enough to actually go out and buy cleaning supplies?! (I can't belive they didn't comp you all that and then some.) works fast almost too fast and has to slow down a few percent to care for the equipment? Wanna move to CA and work for me? I give raises not punishment for that kind of behavior
Absolutely!:iagree If you ever move to Alabama, I will hire you. BTW - 30 mins on the clock at the end of the day to clean and grease your piece of equipment and the cleaning supplies are provided.
The pushing to get things done isn't always a good thing. When all you were taught was production, taking the time to fine tune stuff has to be re-learned. I used to get so mad when they would use "my" truck on the weekend, I'd come back on Monday and the truck would be filthy, all my supplies had been raided, they'd alwats leave the windows open and it would rain, seat all wet, my personal tool stash missing. Man, that would PMO! :Banghead
After having sold my business in '94 and moved to eastern Oregon, I decided to go back to work, when I felt like it to earn some extra cash. I drove dump truck for several outfits, only one of which gave time to do greasing/ cleaning/ adjustments. The rest of 'em wanted ya ta highball, never mind what was wrong with the truck, then gripe about having to have a mechanic fix something when you broke down on road. Never could understand that mentality:Banghead . I worked at a local mine a few years ago. .the owner was VERY particular about machines being kept in good shape. .really enjoyed working there. I take care of what I drive. .can't STAND a filthy cab! Same thing with a Cat or an excavator! And having something get "grease burnt" from lack of lubrication REALLY irritates me. It only takes a few minutes to get the grease gun out and lube whatever needs lube at the start of the shift ( I don't care if the night shift supposedly greased it) and wipe the mirrors and windows off. Then at the end of the day, do the same things and leave a clean rig for the next guy.
Well ive seen worse. Least the business end and the running gear looks ok. Cosmetic damage is minor and maybe its been vandalised?
Welcome to HEF ol' Grump! :drinkup
Umm- have you ever bought Cat sheet metal? Hold on to your ankles!
Woah, big tipoff there. Any good operator will show up in BOOTS, I don't care if all they do is walk 15 feet through dirt to their cab and back once at the begining and end of the day, they will have a good set of (usually steel toed) boots.
So that would mean any operator that doesn't wear boots is a bad one? Thats a stretch, I have worked with a lot that could blow that theory out of the water. What about the developing world?
I agree. Sometimes we have folks show up on the site looking for a job. If they are wearing anything except work boots we won't even talk to them until they come back with boots on. ( I know I will catch it on this one - but rules are rules) I think what artherd meant was a professional operator will have boots on. (I believe he was refering to the States.) We have a gazzillion rules to apply by here in the States - it's more than just being a good operator. BTW - third world countries are another ball game and I don't doubt for a minute there are good operators around the world that show up to work in whatever they have to put on. I am not saying they are not good or professional - it's just a different set of rules to play by.
yeah key word is highschool kid. but damn how hard is to drive up and down a field. the compuer does all the work!
Yeah,we have similiar rules in the uk about wearing steel toed boots etc,it is one health and safety rule that makes sense. I do not agree with Tylermckee about keeping the floor brushed out,apart from the health and safety aspect its nice to get into a nice clean machine. As for those guys who do not encourage their operators to look after their machines,what a bunch of fools, they strive like mad to keep the yardage up to earn more dollars but lose that money when they trade in their machine. due its bad condition. I have a friend who runs a zaxis 130 and when he let it be known he was trading the previous 4 year old machine in for this one the dealers were literally swamped with potential buyers. He is an excellent operator who can extract the work from the machine without leaving it in a pile of bits indeed the machine still looked as new. Neil
Awww crap I guess Im not as good of an operater as I thought I like to wear flipflops especially if Im in a scraper, 12 hours in boots cooks my feet in there :beatsme I keep my boots in the truck in case I need them. But at least I got it right taking care of the machine. I keep it very clean. Often wear just white socks in it and at the end of the day they are still white. I keep an air hose with me and blow it out/whipe it down at least twice a week. Even pull the floor mats out so I can clean all the dirt and crap out from under them.
Hey Brian, I am in the same boat I have run dozers in flipflops, hell on occasion I have gone bare foot if the mood has taken me. I like to take care of my boots though, just in case I have to go looking for another job! If I was hiring, I for sure wouldn't turn a guy away just because I didn't like his choice of footwear, now maybe if I didn't like his hairstyle?
Right on LDK. The amount of time we spend in our machines I like to be as comfortable as I can be. Steel toes are not necessary for an operater, I have met very few that disagree with that. Most could care less what I wear in my cab unless we are on a high profile job with some saftey nut watching our every move. Even then steel toes for operators is not often enforced. But if they are I wear them for the time we are on that job and toss them back in my truck for the next one. If I went to talk to someone about a job and he would not talk to me because I didnt have boots on I would get a good laugh out of that. I wouldnt bother going back to talk to him again.
Laugh all you want- right off my jobsite. There will be someone behind you that takes the job seriously.
I take my job very seriously. I also take it very serious who I work for. When I consider a perspective employer I scrutinize your resume just as much as you do mine. There are a ton of jobs out there for a guy with my qualifications and I know the odds of the next guy coming to talk to you having as much to offer your company as I do are very slim. He will likley fit right in with the rest of the adults you babysit.
Whoa! Ego party of one. I have dealt with many operators that think they are so good - only to find out they can't hit the ground with a blade. These guys usually think so much of themselves that they don't have to follow any rules since "the company can't do without them since they are so good" - wrong. When I see a prospective employee show up in flipflops, it tells me he is not serious about his profession. Do you clean your undercarriage out daily? If so do you do this in flipflops? I think it is a great stretch to single out the guys that operate for me are not the operator someone else is - since you do not know any of them. Likewise I do not know your operating abilities so I am not in any way debating your operating skills just your attitude towards company/safety policies. Furthermore I am not lumping you into the above mentioned category - this is just what I have experienced. See the real deal is this - you may not care about your toes, head, eyes or other essential body parts.(Now I might be totally wrong in this assumption) If you lost a toe on a job because you were not wearing boots what would likely happen? A WC claim possibly followed by a disability claim would be filed against the employing company. This in turn would raise insurance rates which affects the bottom line of the company - all because your feet were hot and you didn't want to wear boots. And don't forget that you are missing a few toes as well. Now which one is more sensible? Wearing boots and following normal safety procedures or just winging it with flipflops since you can't take your feet getting hot? The main goal of safety rules are that everyone goes home at the end of the day just like they started the day. I wish I had a dollar for everyone that has told me they have been in the business for X number of years and nothing happened. All it takes is a split second for an accident to happen. I adhear to the rules and reg's that my guys have to abide by. Steel toe boots 12 hrs per day, long pants and hard hat. I would not subject anyone to something that I am not willing to do myself. BTW - the Adult Babysitter line is for all the bankers, bank inspectors, gov't inspectors, geotechs, architects, land planners, civil engineers, structural engineers, environmental engineers, storm water management tech's, DOT engineers, accountants, clients and the general public that I have to deal with.
I know, I for one, have a great respect for people that show professionalism on this site. It usually means they show even more on the Job Site. I'm putting yall in the professional category. Having said that, I hope we aren't stooping to the level of taking cheap shots. :cool2 Let the debate continue but in a way where we are actually accomplishing something productive. I shall stay neutral in this but will ask that yall take a look at the 2 quotes below. These should cover most people in their respective careers in construction or mining, in the States. Brian, I realise that you are from Canada, so if you are not under these regulatory Administrations then I think we have found where the disagreement is coming from. Just want to point this out so we all are sitting at the same table. Thanks :drinkup
OK - that was a cheap shot and I apologize.
No appology necessary CM That was probably easy to be read as if I have a big ego. I dont though, I am experienced but I dont think I am the best there is. There are plenty of operators out there better then I am and I still learn everyday. As for being better then your guys, like you said I dont know them so I have no idea how my skills compare to theirs. I just thought your signiture was referring to your employees so thats what I was going by. Im sure others read it that way as well. What I meant was Experienced operators are hard find nowadays. If one employer is not interested in me its not a big deal, there are plenty more who are. That does not mean that I am indispensable to an employer though, the company would do just fine without me. And on the same note the company is dispensable to me too. Maybe even more so with the shortage of operators here. Its far easier for me to find a new job then it is for an employer to find a new experienced operator. If I was leaving the house with the intention of going to see you on the job, I would be wearing my boots and possibly a vest as well. But if I just happened to be in the neighborhood and spotted you working I wouldnt go home and get them. I would wait for an opportunity to catch your attention and flag you over to the edge of the job to talk. If you told me to get my boots before you would talk to me I would not be back. If you told me to go get them and get to work I would. As I said before if its enforced on the job site I wear them. If not then they are in my truck ready for if I gotta get out and work on the ground. I think our saftey rules read almost exactly the same as yours. Steel toes in the cab of a machine is something that has been debated plenty. Partly because of how its worded. It says steel toes must be worn were there is a danger of injury to your feet....were is the danger inside the cab? Or even walking from your vehicle to your machine? lol Countryboy no worries :drinkup I dont think I have ever seen a thread locked in HEF and I dont think there will be a need to lock one any time soon. HEF is full of good people and even though we may not always agree with eachother its still all good.
I had to laugh tonight on some of CM1995's comment's in his post. You'll see why in a minute. I'm starting a new job Monday after being basically out of work on disability since 2004, when I had both worn-out and arthritic knees replaced. I did do a little cat skinning last summer, before coming down with Valley Fever, but that was almost more play than serious work. (The cat-skinnin that is!) Anyway, I had to pick up my son today after he drops his Chev off for some warranty work, and it's close to the new job, so we head out there after, so my wife and he can see the place. Most everyone is gone as it's afternoon on a Friday you know, but two of the owner-managers are in and so I introduce the son and wife and we get to talking. The one lady asks if I really use 'surfer-joe' as a handle on the internet and I said yes, I do. She and the other gal burst out laughing cause they knew I was from California, and they had gotten this e-mail from surfer-joe, so they just knew I was a tattooed young buck with a pair of salty baggies, stringy long hair, and a beat-up old VW Microbus with a shark-chewed surf-board tied down on top. You know, sorta like squizzy. And there I was today, a gray-haired pot-bellied ole dirt stiff in Nike flip-flops, a paint-spattered tee-shirt, a pair of dusty stretch pants, and an old sweaty and battered Seabee hat. Another gal came up and asked the others who I was, and they told her I was the new Fleet Manager. "Ahuh," she said, with that sceptical look in her eye like she knew her leg was being pulled. "No, no, honest," the others exclaimed, and we all busted out laughing. I could see this other gal was thinking that "this is sloppy Friday, but really!" I didn't explain to her that when I go to the VA for a medical appointment, as I was today, I wear the minimum clothing I can get away without scaring all the old women and little kids. It's just easier to pull stuff up or down as the doctor directs if you don't have shoes and socks on, or other things like belts, zippers, buttons or snaps. Course, for the last four or five years, I have usually looked like this or worse all the time anyway, as I battled my way thru the many ailments I've had. But it was great fun today. The ladies weren't dressed much better than I was, but yesterday they all looked real nice, and that's the way they look most of the time. By the way, this is the first construction company office I've ever been in that had one large room dedicated to being a day-care center for little kids. I think there were several grandkids in there plus a couple of other urchins that drifted in from down the street. 1995 has a point in that what we wear at work is designed more to protect us from not only the elements, but from the additional hazards we face every day on the job. Hard hats, ear-plugs, safety glasses, gloves, long-sleeved shirts, long pants, (no slight to our down-under brethren intended) and a good pair of high top boots. You can get away with wearing or not wearing some items at one time or another, but all this stuff is mandated for a very good reason, and that reason is primarily to get YOU, the individual worker, back home in as good of condition as when you went into work. I've done all the things Brian mentioned, as I'm sure many here have. I have a lot of hours operating equipment with no shirt, just a pair of flip-flops or tennis shoes, and I was never hurt or in any particular danger because of it. I grew up that way and those I worked around in those days basically showed me the way. I can also remember tiny ole Vietnamese fellers wearing nothing but a pair of raggedy shorts and a rice-straw hat barreling down the haul road bare-footed on a TS24 scraper in a big cloud of dust and diesel smoke. When I was in Antigua, the Bi-Wi's didn't wear much more as they toiled on the international airport expansion for a contractor out of Montreal. But, they didn't have our laws to contend with, and they hadn't a clue what a safety culture was. Even some folks from foreign countries working here in our area still do not. I saw a crew of obvious illegal's in south Phoenix the other day working in a narrow slab-sided trench about six or 7 feet deep, no lay-back, no trench-box, no safety ropes, no ladders, no hard hats, no English, no nothing. The evening news will report some of those guys as dead or injured one of these days soon for sure. I could say that things might have stayed loose like the old days, but as time went on, more and more people were getting hurt, and lack of proper protective clothing was a big factor. Insurance companies, medical providers and others began to take notice and here we are today, especially when our politicians found out thay could appear to be real noble and forward thinking when they passed laws mandating protective clothing, gear, and methods, and all the while their brother-in-laws were raking in the dough from the hard-hats and safety goggles they was making and selling. You know, back years ago on a job, I started getting complaints that the 651B's wouldn't shift into reverse. My mechanics were starting to report the same thing as they tried to start the bloomin things in the severe cold. So nothing for it but to head on out and see what the matter was. My ace mechanic climbed into one cab and said, "I'll bet these here sunflower seeds have something to do with it." Sure enough, there was a thick layer of dirt, seed hulls, Twinkie wrappers, butts, candy wrappers, newspapers, dirty old clothes and gloves, and all of this had managed to migrate in under the shift quadrant. In that quadrant there is a long shifter lever that is mostly parallel to the floor, and it goes DOWN for reverse. But with all the crap on the floor in this cab, and many others we found, the shifter didn't have a prayer of going far enough to affect a reverse gear. I received a Michigan loader all the way back from Vietnam in 1972 at my college in Michigan, and it was served up the same way. Old clothes and hats and gloves. Dusty Vietnamese newspapers, drink containers, lots of butts, dirty magazines, and a ton of just plain dirt. One of my real pet peeves is the guys that chew tobacco and can't be bothered to either spit in a bottle or at least outside the cab. There is almost nothing worse than having to operate a machine behind a fella that is a real slob with tobacco juice, or even worse, having to work on a machine coated with the filthy stuff! With some operators, I guess it just doesn't feel natural if they aren't wallowing IN the same dirt they are working on moving around. So, CM1995, you go fella! Brian, you and LDK are going to have to tighten up.
Congrats on the new job Joe :thumbsup
Disagreement is educational but animosity expressd with witty remarks usually leads to a downward spiral. Glad to see its settled. :thumbsup After all, I'd hate to see yall, like the cowboys in the old Westerns, drawing at High Noon over a pair of Flippy Floppies. I don't think they even had them back then. :beatsme Congrats on the job Joe. :drinkup Does this mean you will have to spend less time on your interesting "ramblings" and more time doing work?
Resolved???????????????? Hi, Folks. Glad to see that the safety issue, if not totally resolved, has at least arrived at the point of agreeing to disagree. Here is a little story with some preamble and an aftermath. The story is from a book that I am (slowly) writing about my experiences on the operating game and other things. "One of the more noticeable of the operators on this project was a man whom we could call ‘Brian’ 'cos that was his name but he was known to almost everyone on the job as ‘Wildcat’ so that is the name that we’ll use. Wildcat mostly drove scrapers which suited him as it enabled him to indulge his ’need for speed’ and still get paid for rushing madly about the place. He was able however, to operate several other types of plant quite well, including ‘dozers. Now, it just happened that, as a result of an accident where an employee was injured, the contractor’s insurance company decreed that all non-office employees had to wear hard hats and boots at all times. We eventually got them to relent and allow those travelling in vehicles to remove their hard hats. (We ARE talking 1970 here.) This direction was met with some resistance from a number of employees, Wildcat among them. One day whilst Wildcat was driving his scraper at a his usual speed of flat out down the haul road, his foreman pulled him up to give him some new instructions. The first thing the foreman noticed was that Wildcat was not wearing his hard hat and, knowing his man, the foreman suspected that the feet might be bare too, so he asked, â€Where are your hard hat and boots, Wildcat?†Our hero reached down beside his seat, picked up the requested items, held them up and said, “Here, Boss.†The foreman said, “Put ‘em on, Wildcat.†Next question, “Aw, do I hafta?†The answer, “Yeah. Put ‘em on.†And the foreman departed after giving his further instructions. About an hour later, the same foreman drove into the pit where the scrapers were being loaded and almost the first thing he saw was that Wildcat had switched machines with one of the ‘dozer operators and was now operating one of the ‘dozers push-loading the scrapers. As soon as Wildcat saw the foreman, he raised the hard hat from his head in a mock salute, lifted his feet, one at a time, from the pedals of the ‘dozer to show his safety boots --- and then stood up and flapped his penis at the foreman. Except for a huge grin, his hard hat and boots were ALL he was wearing (The insurance company didn’t say we had to wear anything else – not even SP15+ sunscreen, which wasn’t even a twinkle in a chemical company’s financial report way back then.) When this foreman had finished telling me this story he asked, “What the hell can you do with a man like that?†Good question. About a month later, Wildcat was dead. Working night shift at the time, he had been drinking all afternoon with his foreman (A different foreman.) and some other men from his shift. As the men were getting on the man-hauler to go out to work that evening, the foreman called out, “Wildcat, your scraper is in the workshop. Pick it up and take it out to the job.†Being a good employee when it suited him, Wildcat went to the workshop, got on his scraper and away he went at his usual leisurely flat out. About two miles from camp, there was a fairly sharp left hand bend around the side of a hill. Wildcat missed the bend, went over the side, was thrown out of the seat (The insurance company hadn’t said anything about wearing seat belts on the scrapers either.) and was killed when the back wheel of the scraper ran over his head. The insurance company argued about paying up on the accident because Wildcat apparently was not wearing his hard hat at the time. Fat lot of good that would have done with nearly eight tons of scraper (the weight on that one wheel) running squarely over his head. There is also a moral to this story: You can NEVER tell for 100% certain sure that something is NOT going to go wrong and cause an injury. For mine, it is better to be wearing the correct safety apparel in the event of the unexpected than to be dressed as you choose and curse the insurance company for the rest of your life. That's just my 0.02 - - - and hey, it's getting closer to being on a par with topside dollars. On a different note, still connected with currency values though. On Feb., 14, 1966, Australia went to decimal currency - dollars and cents. Can anybody here tell me what the cross rate was on that date? (LOL. I KNOW what it was but how many of the rest of you do?)
Surfer Joe, How's yer arthritis? Hi, Surfer Joe. I too have had a little tussle with osteo-arthritis, mainly in my left knee, about 14 months ago but now have it under control and pain-free. If you're interested, drop me an e-mail and I'll tell you how I handled it. It's not an instant cure but I was back to pretty much normal in about 2 1/2 months. The same methods have helped several others since.
Gratulations Joe.:drinkup Hope u will be happy in your new job. It's a interresting discussion here regarding wearing boots. But i tend to say, that if u don't wear your boots all the time, u will take shortcuts and forget to take them on when u should have. And u can bet that something happends at that time. We have very strict rules on fysical demands for our operators that wan't to go abroad with us. In one mision we didn't apply the security rules strict enough, so people used sandals all day long. (It is hot in Iraq.) So one day a plate of steel came over, hitting the foot of one of our guys. 2 years later he still has some broken bones inside his wrist/ancle.(they don't heal properly, he may have to remove some) He will be disabled for the rest of his life. I can't say if a steel toe would have saved him. But it would maybe redused the damage. So now i have lost one good operator, and he is disabled for the rest of his life. He can't walk properly on that foot. But he is still operating machinery in his sivilian job. (they don't have the same regulations as we.) Last mision i bought new boots for everybody. And insisted on that they should use them. And i know that we saved one pair of toes! So the investment payd off! And thats the reason behind that i can be a pain in th ***, when discussing this with my guy's at work. So how can we get everybody to wear boots?:cool2 Regulations must come first, if not people would go naked. I then think next is to find boots that are good on your feet. Last the way people think and behave must be right. And i know from our shooepusher that he got something for everybody. There are so many produsers that i beliewe everybody will find a pair of shoes that is very good to wear. I have ended up with a pair of theese. Gore-tex, nailprotection, chem/oilresistant, shock absorbed, antistatic and water peel off. Rather expensive, but the Army pays for it.200$(the firms have to buy u workwear here in Norway.) I wear out one pair a year, and they function in cold and hot climate as well. Give them some polish and they look like the army boots.
Well, that's what it's come down to. We now have to wear our protective gear all the time whilst on the job. Hard hat, safety glasses, steel-toed boots, and now a days, a bright vest or orange shirt or jacket. Now I'm positive that the vest doesn't help do anything for an equipment operator sitting in the seat of his dozer. But the idea is that sooner or later that operator is going to get off to take a whiz or go talk to a grade-checker or something, and that's when he needs the vest. It's those guys that have not worn the protective gear and gotten hurt that have spoiled it if you will, for the rest. In 1974 one of the machines on one of my jobs was an old Cat 631 hard hitch water wagon. It was ugly as sin but fast once you got it cranked up. The general superintendent had a son that wasn't the brightest lamp in the room, but he was a good kid all the same and we were bringing him along on the iron so that eventually he could be an operator and make a living for himself. He was doing alright when his dad put him on the 631. We had a crew of Wyoming cowboys on 651 scrapers and were setting new production records almost every week. They were hard riding and hard drinking fellas and really pushed the limits. The dirt super was a guy that was the spitting image of Chief Sitting Bull, but he knew dirt and how to get it moved. He tweaked the haul roads, cuts, and fills till there was something moving everywhere all the time. One of the things he was really good at was haul road layout. He'd study on a portion of the route that was slowing things up, then make some changes to it that allowed the scrapers to hi-ball thorough. One part of our road at the bottom end of the lake had a sharp curve in it with an uphill jog right after. It was the uphill part that was the problem for the loaded scrapers as they had to slow way down for the curve and couldn't get back up to speed for the climb. So he had a D9 and the 16 blade go over and construct a "super" elevation in that curve. They kept fussing with it till it was pretty high and smooth on the outside and those big ole 651's barreled around it at top speed without slowing down a lick. Production picked up immediately and everyone was happy. Now the kid on the water wagon was happy too because he could stay with the scrapers and not be in the way. He was zooming around splashing water everywhere and keeping the haul road wet down just right. Course that old hard hitch pitched him around quite a bit compared to the 51's, all of which were cushion hitched. But he rode it hard and compared it to bronc riding, which he'd done some of. So round and round he went and things were going fine one morning when the elevation in that curve started to develop a pothole. There are two machines that will destroy a haul road or start a pothole faster than anything else I've ever seen, and that's loaded 651 scrapers and loaded 777 haul trucks. There is just something about them that moves the earth out from under and quickly at that. So the pothole gets worse and the kid gets a load of lake water and round the road he goes. When he takes the curve he is flat out just ahead of a couple of scrapers and he hits the by now very deep pothole. The 631 dips the right front wheel and then pitches up like a snake. This throws the kid around a bit and his hard hat flies off his head over to the right, back behind the engine firewall and ahead of the hitch. This old tractor had one of those old pipe ROPS deals, it wasn't an engineered design, just something the company threw together to satisfy the Corps of Engineers on a job in southern Colorado some time before where everything had to have some sort of ROPS. Because of the way it had to be mounted on the tractor, the rear legs were very close to the operators station and the inner rear leg was bent and curved somewhat inwards to clear the hitch in a full 90 degree hard right turn against the stops. Well, when the kid's hard hat flew off, he immediately let go of the steering wheel and twisting around, he grabbed for it as it sailed off over the hood. One other bad feature of this model 631 was that they tended to straighten themselves out without the steering wheel being held in a turning position, so the ole girl did what came naturally and straightened out -- and promptly flew right off that 16 or 20 foot high elevation. At about the same time, the kid is stretched out fully trying to grab his hat, and the rear wheels of the tanker hit the pothole. This all happened at once faster than the blink of an eye you know. The rear wheels hitting the pothole slammed the tanker back over to the left against the stops in the hitch. That slammed the tractor, which was no longer on the ground but in the air, sharply back to the left. That motion slammed the kids head up against the right rear ROPS leg, smacking him sharply in the right forehead area and smashing his skull bone into several pieces, probably knocking him unconscious in the process, which was a good thing for what happened next. The machine, now entirely mobile in the air, did what all things do and came back to mother earth. It hit very hard about 75 or a 100 feet out from the curve, then it bounced. We measured that bounce at 110 feet before it came down again, and it bounced several more times before finally rolling to a stop up against a little outcropping of rock. Several of us had actually watched this happen as we were sitting a little ways off discussing production and maintenance issues along with the general important issues of the time, which included who hit who at the bar the night before and where the biggest Mule Deer were to found. The kid's old man also witnessed this event from his perch on top of a rocky little crag where he could see the entire operation, and privately drink his Scotch whisky without anyone seeing him. So we all rush over and find the kid leaning out the left side of the seat. His seat belt held him in, which we thought was probably a good thing actually. He was bleeding like crazy, but still breathing. He was not responsive. We drug him out of the seat and laid him on the ground. A couple of us cleaned him up a bit and wrapped some shirts around his head -- which we could see was damaged very badly. Meanwhile someone had called into our office and asked them to get an ambulance up to our end of the job right away. I got up on the water wagon and set the brakes, then placed the shifter into neutral and shut the engine off. There was blood and gore everywhere. We figured out later that the kid got thrown around like a marble in a tin can while the machine was gyrating wildly. We don't know how many times he hit his head after the first time. He also suffered several busted ribs, a broken shoulder, and his right arm was broken. He displaced several vertebra in his neck and compressed some on his lower spine. One of his legs was broken too as were some of his fingers and one wrist. The ambulance eventually arrived and took him to local hospital, then he was air-lifted to Casper and later to Cheyenne. We shut the job down for the rest of the day and sent all the hands home except a few who were witnesses. I of course had to stay both as a witness and an accident investigator. The upshot of all this was that the kid should have let the hardhat go and concentrated on his steering. But he was young and inexperienced and really did what comes naturally to most folks. You grab for something of yours that's falling off. The rest was as I described it. The young fellow spent nearly a year in hospital -- six months in an induced coma -- with surgery after surgery and lots of therapy. The doctors were able to repair his busted noggin with a big silver plate and some screws to hold it down. They couldn't cover it all up because the skin over that area had been torn off and we never found it. So he had this silvery plate sticking out, wherever he didn't have the watch cap he took to wearing pulled down over it. Surprisingly, he wasn't in much worse shape mentally than before the accident. Physically, he was a mess. He told me one time that he didn't remember a thing about nothing after reaching for his hat, untill he awoke screaming several months later. The point I'm demonstrating, is that protective gear doesn't always save you from injury, sometimes it's part of the problem. One hears of an orange vest getting hooked on a tailgate or a lever, causing injury. I've seen the guy with the smashed foot right behind the boot steel toe, which had to be surgically removed as it had bent down on top of the area right behind the big toe clamping the boot onto his foot. The gloves that catch, the coveralls that burn, all things designed to help protect your hide from injury and wind up actually causing it instead or making what might have been a minor hurt worse. One can also say that humans cause their own accidents, and I think that true to a point. But sometimes you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and occasionally things you are using or wearing make things worse instead of better. I never saw the kid again after leaving Wyoming. We finished the job -- with the 631 water wagon in right to the end -- and everyone scattered as construction hands do. I think of the kid from time to time, wondering how he's doing and still amazed at the resilience and tenacity of a man that keeps him alive after going through something so terrible. I understand it having been thorough it myself, but it's still a wonder.
Im with Brian Hay here.... If Im driving past a jobsite and am lookin for a job, I will stop in and say hello... regardless of what Im wearing. No reason to drive 30 mins home and 30 back so I can put on boots to get out of my car and walk 30 feet to talk to somone. And someone who would not talk to me because I didnt have boots on is someone that would probably be a pain to deal with on numerous other issues, so I would not be comming back regardless. Also, steel toed boots can actually be quite dangerous. Ive heard of people having their feet ran over by trucks, and all the steel toe did was neatly amputate their toes...
Well, a sad story. But when u have spent time in this business you get to see some accidents. For the west, nearly nobody wears it here in the country.(everybody must have one in their car anyway.) It came an regulation connected to the workers health law, that said u got to wear visibility clothes nearly everywhere. When the companys had to buy workers clothes they combined the two. So everywhere u go u see workers clothes acording to EU regulations. Either in the bright yellow or bright orange with the firmlogo on the shoulders and on the front.(EN 471/472 standard) Thats way u get the sharp colour and all that reflecting area. You don't find any operator working without clothing like this. And if u take off the jacket there is enough colour and reflecting area on the trousers.
I tend to look at it another way. If someone shows up on a large jobsite with many pieces of equipment and people working with flip flops, no shirt or shorts on it tells me they - a) Don't understand basic jobsite rules, which could mean they are green b) they know and they just don't care or c) know the rules but think it is alright "just this one time". Either way I don't have time to train someone new with the basics only to leave for a few pennies more later on down the road after I have OJT invested in them, deal with a cowboy that thinks the rules don't apply to them or have someone that knows better but will take shortcuts. Now this is my view and I am in no way making a blanket statement about anyone. Small business owners have tremendous amounts of liability everyday - for all sorts of things. My risk management approach is to try and weed out any problems before they constitute a major issue. And yes this is "one size fits all approach" but the world is not mine raise. There is alot more to running a small business than just pushing dirt. Take for example: If a guy gets hurt on a jobsite and decides to hire one of those ambulance chasers - what is the first thing lawyer will bring up? The employer did not provide adequate safety training and gear for this guy to perform his job. WC and GL (if the insurance companies will still write you a policy) rates go through the roof and hopefully there is still a company left after it is all over with. Employers have the responsibility not only to the individual employee but all of the employee's. This means safeguarding the company from exposure to incidents/accidents that may very well take their job security away. I am not willing to let one guy take away what I have stressed, struggled and worked my behind off for 12 years to achieve. And if this means not talking to someone because they come onto the jobsite in flipflops then so be it - the world is a tough place. I agree with Surfer-joe that alot of the safety standards have been placed into law through countless lobbyists for mutliple safety supply companies. Never the less, "it is what it is" and owners have to abide by the rules. If I thought I could influence Washington DC on legistlative issues I would start with border security and all those billions of dollars of "aid" we send to foreign countries that hate the US - whoa slipping into another whole discussion. If I get on my :soapbox about that I will be here all day. Another anology : Discussions in various threads on this forum have been about how a clean, well kept trucks and equipment are one of the best marketing tools to potential customers. I don't think anyone would say a dirty, smashed up machine gives a better impression to a new customer than a clean, well kept machine. I view these two issues similiarly. A potential hire showing up in flipflops instead of "ready to work" shows me alot about them. Of course we all have to run our businesses/ careers and lives in a manner that works for us. Would I miss out on a great operator over the flip flop issue - probably. I am just trying to present another view from across the table.
boots well here in the uk if you turn up to a construction job without steel toecap boots you dont get on site its as simple as that,usualy hiviz jacket , hardhat ,ear defenders are included. i am in and out of the machine all day so boots are on all the time also we have to wear proban clothing,trousers and long sleeved shirts
I have done a ton of job hunting just driving from job to job and everywhere in between. I didn't dress fancy, but I didn't wear surfin' clothes either. All the same, a guy looking for a job and the fella looking for help should be able to get together at the jobsite without either one being overly stiff-lipped about how the guy looking for work is dressed at the moment. This really is a time-honored tradition here in the states, I don't know how it's done elsewhere. Obviously the potential employee is not going to work at that very instant, not these days anyway, and he'll have plenty of time to go home and get what he needs if he doesn't already have it with him as I usually did. Just for example, I'm going to start a new job Monday. They gave me a packet about an inch and a half thick with forms to fill out, instructions on how to fill out the forms, warnings, an employee manual and I don't know what all yet. I'm on my 3rd day reading and filling in the blanks or signing off where indicated and I'm maybe a little better than half done. We didn't used to have all this you know, back in the bad old days. In the times at present, with good experienced hands hard to come by, someone looking for help -- might want to be receptive to those just dropping by. Always remember, clothes, nor the way a person wears them, make the man!
False. Disproved by "Myth Busters". I saw the episode.
On Clothes Making The Man. Hi, CM1995 and SurferJoe. The only reference I have ever used when applying for a job is what I can do with a machine when I put my ample butt in the seat. Similarly, I have applied for a lot of jobs where I walked in off the street just 'cos I saw the site while I was going past and mostly I was wearing something less than current regulation footwear. I got starts on most of those sites. If I was going for a job where I had made an appointment for an interview, I would front for that appointment looking like I was ready to start work but that is a whole different ball game from just walking in 'cos you've seen the site while driving past. Many years ago on a pipeline job in Sydney, New South Wales, DownUnder, there was a welder who was selling pipeliner caps as a sideline. He suggested to me one day that I ought to buy one of his caps and BE a pipeliner. He was a little put out when I pointed out to him that it was the man under the cap that made the pipeliner rather than the cap itself and that I didn't need one of his caps to be who and what I was. One thing we DON'T have to deal with DownUnder is any Corps Of Engineers. ALL site inspection/control/etc., is done by private companies separate from the principal contractor. ON major projects, there is usually one contract for the work to be done and another for the inspection, quality and safety control. On smaller jobs where compaction and/or environment are issues, there is usually a 'resident' dirt doctor who is responsible to his company for any compaction issues and responsible to his company and the dept. of environment and whoever else might be involved for environment issues. That 'resident' is required to be there at all times while work is in progress. They are also often responsible for keeping an eye on broader safety issues but the main safety resposnsibility still comes down to the employer and the workers. Let the discussion continue.
Were they the bad old days? Hey Joe, they were good days as far as I'm concerned. When you pulled up on a job looking for the start, if they had a machine standing they wanted you in the seat straight away. The work had more of a buzz about it and was way more fun on and off site than most of the jobs now in my opinion. That said most of my time is spent overseas now so it doesn't matter I suppose. Good luck with the new job too.
Some great stories in here for the safety competition eh? Thats the same reason why I would not go back biggixxerjim. I really dont think anyone working on the jobsite would change their habits with their saftey gear because of a breif conversation with a perspective new hire who stopped in. Now if the new guy showed up for work still dressed that way, that is different. That would for sure be a problem. To think that a person is not going to take care of a machine because of the type of footwear they choose I think is a poor analogy. Because I like to wear flipflops does not mean I am a lazy slob. Any machine I operate is very well looked after. It is not neglected in any way. It is my bread and butter and where I spend more time then anywhere else. It never starves for grease or oil and my cab is cleaner then the cab of most pickups. And I clean my cab on my own time as well. Usualy on a break or after hours with my own cleaning supplies.
I miss those times as well LDK. We worked hard and we played hard. Everyone was happy (for the most part) and a lot less stressed. Things were a lot simpler but no less productive because of it....I wonder what things will be like when our kids are our age.
I think I might have not explained my analogy the way I meant it. The point was perception. Perception is often perceived as reality - whether good or bad. I didn't mean that everyone who showed up in flip flops would be a lazy slob who wouldn't take care of a machine. Just like it doesn't mean that the guy with the dirty, smashed up equipment might not be the best guy in town. But he will limit his potential new customers through the image he puts forth. Conversely, the guy with the cleanest, newest equipment in town may be a crook. There are exceptions to everything. My point was you should show your best side in the business world regardless. It's a tough world out there and you need to use everything you have to your advantage - within ethical reasons. If you are out looking for a job with that specific purpose in mind wouldn't you dress the part? If I were a desk jocky (heaven forbid) I wouldn't go into a nice office building with flip flops on to see if they were hiring. Just like a suit is required to work for corporate America, boots and all the related items are required for the construction field. I believe there is no difference in professionalism between the two just different costumes. I totally agree. Things were alot less stressed and alot less regulations. And I am not so sure we are any better off for it. But these are the rules you have to play the game by now. Gov't pinheads, trial lawyers and insurance companies put forth the rules we have to abide by whether you or I ,like it or not. It's scary to think of how it will be for our children and grandchildren.
Yes that is true I agree 100%. Like I said in one of my previous posts if I left the house with the intention of going to your jobsite, I would be wearing the right costume. But if I was just out and about and spotted your job I would not hesitate to stop in the way I was dressed. When I introduced myself I would let you know in some way that I was passing by and decided to stop. Almost every job I have ever gotten has been from stopping in on a jobsite like that. I find out who is in charge and wait for an appropriate time to aprouch him. When he is away from most of the action. None of use like an unknown tourist venturing out into the action on foot or in a vehicle no mater how they are dressed. I extend my hand for a handshake and say somthing like. Hi my name is Brian Hay I was driving past and spotted your job thought I would stop in and see if you were looking for any operators. I have always gotten a positive welcome. Some ask, do you have boots? We have to wear them on our jobs. I reply, I sure do. I would be wearing them now but wasnt expecting to be stopping. The normal response is. Right on glad you stopped Brian, see you in the morning?
i would like to know where the owner of the machine has been ,because that all didn't happen in a day by all the rust on the counter weight.....contractor that lets his equipment get like that isn't going to be in buisness for long with expenses like those......
Who do you work for ?:usa
After seeing that link belt i now know what my Jonyang is a copy of , it's a dead ringer . One small point about trashed machines working in scrap yards etc is that sometimes the machines are bought out of auction yards damaged . It could have had a rollover or fallen off a lowboy , same as storm chasers buy late model low milage cars with hail damage from auctions as they are going to get beat up anyway .
MKTEF: Like the spiffy looking yellow and orange jackets, me like. Now please tell me why operator training was invented and why it was such a good idea??
Regulations, safety and operator ability. Hi, Folks. Yesterday, I was running a Cat 943 track loader spreading fill material that was being trucked in on a pond wall. I was using a spreader bar with the loader to leave pretty much finished product behind me. There was a vibrating sheepsfoot roller looking after compaction. After he had done his thing, I would run the spreader bar over the area again and a vibrating smooth-drum, run by the same roller operator, was used to seal it off in the event of rain. So far, so good. Now we come to the tragic bit. The roller operator saw me run the spreader bar over an area for the second time so that he could seal it off with the smooth-drum. He drove the sheepsfoot roller almost 200 yards around the haul road and up onto the fill in an area that had already been sealed off, turned it around on the sealed-off area and parked it. He then switched over to the the smooth-drum to seal off the area that I had just brushed over, leaving the surface of the area where he had parked the sheepsfoot somewhat chewed up and no longer sealed. The real rub here is that the sheepsfoot roller was still required where he had just driven it from. He finished his smooth-drum rolling and had to get the sheepsfoot back off the sealed area and back to where it was still needed. Why not walk the 200 yards in the first place and save making a mess that had to be cleaned up again? Lack of training? Lack of forethought? Not caring? No consideration for others on the job? All of the above? All I know is that I seem to be seeing more of this sort of behaviour and this sort of operator as the years progress. Or is it just that I am becoming more observant as I grow older? These guys have all the safety training, the paperwork, the 'RIGHT' safety wear, safety briefings every morning, 'toolbox' safety meetings every week, safety alerts about accidents and incidents, they fill in their plant inspection reports every morning, they have rotating beacons, reversing alarms 2-way radios and broadcast radios/CD players fitted to their machines but they can't or don't THINK. I have yet to meet anybody who can explain to me how filling in a plant inspection report every morning makes me a better, SAFER operator when I have been doing those same inspections for so long now WITHOUT the paperwork that I can no more start up without the inspections than go to work without my boots. A loaded truck got bogged on that same job last week. The safety officer insisted that the truck driver fill out an incident report about it. They managed to break a 3/8" chain trying to pull the truck out with 20-ton excavator - because the truck driver had the truck in reverse instead if in 1st gear. The safety officer had a bit to say the next morning about using chains to pull anything out of a bog. He insisted that only CERTIFIED AND TAGGED chains be brought onto the site. Certified and tagged chains are chains that are used for lifting. Such chains are required by regulation to be used only for lifting. They are not to be used for towing. Yet we have a SAFETY OFFICER telling us that we MUST use them and them only for towing. How do you win? Soapbox does its thing again. Just my 0.02.
Some of these pictures make me sick. I don't see how anyone can say "oh I didn't see that". I learned, LOOK BEFORE YOU MOVE. Even swinging, I know what is back there, but to make sure no one has put something there Look in your mirrors while you swing, its not that hard. It is all laziness really. They just want to get the job done with the least amount of work, so who wants to move that stump you just set there that you may hit when you don't really need to. I see no reason that the step on that 1st post should be bent, how do you even do that. It is just sad to see equipment banged up, there is no explanation, if I ran a business that guy would be operating the new fancy shovel with the nice wooden handle. Does anyone care about the machine that gets them food on the table. No because if they "accidentally" bang it up they will just keep on going untill they get a new machine, but the new machine is unnecessary, work with what you have and keep it good as new as long as you can. As I saw a post earlier, a excavator that is just digging dirt should never be banged up, how is that even possible unless you hit another piece of machinery, it is just dumb how people do this. Do any of these idiots have common sense? Also, I got a nice pair of Cat Steel Toed Boots, very comfy, I test them once in a while by having my brother stand on them (he is a big boy).
i have a picture of a cat 345bl, the counter weight had a hole in it. i will post a picture of it later
termites?
Ha we have one of those too. Well its not quite completely through but close.
Here's one I took a picture of the other day, How can you put dents in the counterweight that bad and not feel it. I mean some were over an 1 inch or 2 deep!
this is my counterweight after 10,00 hrs we take great pride in how our machines look. most of us either wipe or wax almost daily. and most have touch up paint just in case
Thats what all machines should look like! Although I hate the older rectangle cab on those cats. I like the new design. But anyway, nice paint job! Almost like new.
Lookin' at it from a maintenance standpoint, it is very frustrating to have a machine brought in for work, and have the owner rave about bent panels, scratched counter weights, and filth in the cab. You guys fix this up, he says, and I will make sure this will never happen again. So we clean the cabs, pressure wash the machine repaint the counterweights, new decals. less than 2 weeks the machine is a mess, and the next year it comes in for annual check, we get the same speech from the owner! It is like ground hog day. tc
Machines will get dents and dings from working on tight site jobs or out in the street. But these machines are uncalled for. It looks like a D11 ran into some of them.
this is a brand new 345c and its so scratched up, its horrible
You thing thats bad I won't show our 345c or our brand new 325 that had the access door was torn off.
little paint knocked off a counterweight? sometimes it can't be helped...that's why they make rattle cans of matching paint...touch it up in the winter when it's not making money
Do you know if that 345CL is used in clearing or logging?
d11rcd do you operate one? or just a fan:beatsme they bought a new pc400 where i work, in the first week a guy who is a boss i might add, was giving her a whirl got too close to a wall and dented and scratched the **** out of the counterbalance, i wasnt there but the size of the dent was unreal
When being hard pressed for production day in day out .... at the start of the job I would occasionaly back into my gravel saver. But 1700 hrs what a mess
How your equipment looks usually tells a lot about the company, if it's beat up and abused do you really want to hire these guys , I wouldn't. Now if it's been taken care of and respected then that's the guy I'd want to hire, Someone that will respect my property and do a great job. I'm not saying we all need new equipment to get jobs, Just keep what you have looking nice.
its actually owned by a large construction company and was loading trucks. sorry for the late reply. been busy
I don't actually operate one, but am a REALLY big fan of the 330s and 345s! I asked because of the thumb. Thanks, D11RCD
Thumbless excavators are worthless. Even our 315 with a compactor plate has a thumb, so does our 320 that just digs trenches.
depends on what you do with your excavator...we're strictly water/sewer...no need for a thumb, it'd just be in the way.
Thats gotta be the most stupid quote that I have ever heard ointhead
Worthless dont come to the uk agent as 99% of UK machines must be worthless two, as thumbs are as rare as rocking horse poo over here
What if your digging and encounter a rock that you can't fit in your bucket and need a thumb?
experience use your initiative and common sense
And get a thumb?
Job I just came off of we are hitting nothing but boulders and mammoth rocks, not one hoe has a thumb on it, and we're doing just fine getting 7-8 foot or bigger boulders into rock trucks with a 6 foot bucket. Just ask bigcatpip, he's running the 345 ME on that job. Thumbs come in handy for demo or clearing maybe, but they aren't the end all be all:cool2
That for sure a lot of time thumbs just get in the way if the hoe isn't used for demo, clearing, or placing large rocks.
You guys seem to forget that [-Agent-] has seen it all and done it all at the wise old age of 14. If he says they are worthless without a thumb, then they must be!!:lmao
:notworthy:notworthy
I agree with your statement. I have seen it all and done it all, at the age of 14! :lmao:umno:guns Although I have never driven a machine with out a thumb and it comes in handy for EVERYTHING. Excavators without thumbs look funny anyway. Although I have seen cascade scraper roll around on his roller. I bet YOU haven't done that.
Perfect example of youthful arrogance. ointhead Agent - I for one am tired of you coming on this board spouting drivel about the machines you have "driven". I am not even wasting forum space explaining why and when a thumb needs to be on a machine - since you have seen it all and done it all, you should know. ( Hint THEY ARE NOT GOOD FOR EVERYTHING ) ointhead It's obivious that you didn't learn anything from your last HEF sponsored vacation........
when you mature agent you may become a operator ,so the machines can be operated and not driven ,then you may gain initiative and common sense then again you may not that will be the last correspondence you will get from me :ban good luck with what you choose to do in life a politician may be a good career for you
If you click on his username, there is a link on his profile page that say, "Add Agent to your ignore list" Just a little hint.
I have ran an excavator since I was 15 and am now 24 and have never even been on one with a thumb and honestly never had a problem loading stumps, rocks, concrete slabs and such into the bucket. Now I will fully admit that I got my rear chewed quite hard the first time I used the track as a place to "help" the rock into the bucket with. Honestly, I've always belived the best operators are the ones that make do with what they have to work with and are able to figure out how to do things the most simple way. Now don't get started on saying well you can't load dump trucks with a dozer and so on and so forth. If you don't have it, make do without. Trbo
I've been reading this forum since i was 2004. I didn't sign up for a years b/c i didn't have anything constructive to add and knew it. I am gonna be 20 in 2 months and still don't know much compared to most of the guys on here. You notice i've never bragged about how many hours i have, or what machines i've run, or even what i own. A few users on here need to figure out they're still in school, so go learn something. :ban
To be honest, what with me still in school, I have learnt a lot about equipment that is completely foreign to me, such as the thumb idea. I have never seen thumbs except for on TV, and most of our operators will curl the rock against the boom. I would say that they are useful, but a thumb doesn't make an excavator. Although, I have to say, I got that 'add him to your ignore list' last night and I was not impressed. Add him to your ignore list if he irritates you, but I mean, come on, we all are entitled to our own opinions, and every one can be arrogant, we just have to put up with it.
i dont know who your talking about but im still in high school and i dont go around putting my opinions where they arent needed im just trying to learn some stuff and share my pictures
well, now that agent's bloodied up and licking his wounds in the corner...altho arrogant, he sounds like a nice young man. we've all been that age, and those of us w/exposure to equipment that young...were/are cocky. he'll learn, just like we're all learning everyday. cut the kid a break
When I was younger I thought I knew everything, and nobody was gonna tell me otherwise, that's why I dont work for my dad anymore. I wish I could go back and do things different, but it seems I usually learn by screwing up(sometimes big) and then doing it right next time. So the lesson here is, When somebody older and more experienced gives advice theres a good chance that you should take it, and take it without an attitude no matter what your age or experience level.
The AWFUL burden of youth. Hi, Folks. Bean thair, dunn thatt, got the experience to prove it. One of the GREAT burdens of youth - although not ALL youth - is that many of them are "full of all the knowledge and wisdom that only the young can possess". One of the great burdens of gaining experience and learning how little you really do know is that you tend to forget that you once knew it all.
Ya I wish I could go back to when I knew it all.
Thank you, it was just my opinion. everything I have every watched with an excavator is always with a thumb, and I have never seen one without one, except some mini's but most of them have one also. Anyway, it was just my opinion, if you dis-agree that's fine. And I will learn, I learn everyday on HEF about equipment and I love it. I would have though curling a rocket against the stick would do damage to the stick and having a thumb would be an advantage so you cause less damage, but if not, then sticks work fine to hold rocks and I learned something new. Your acting like another forum I was on that if your opinion doesn't match the opinion of somebody else then your retarded. Just say that thumbs aren't always needed. Can someone say that they would NEVER like a thumb? Would any of you say a thumb is never useful? No so just give me a break. If you don't want to hear what I think then tell me and I won't voice my opinion and only facts that I KNOW are true. Best Regards, Agent
So, today, about equipment, you learned that thumbless excavators aren't worthless, right? Did you learn anything about what you "KNOW" to be true? (Hint--something along the lines of, Maybe I think I know something is true, but others, who may have more experience, may disagree, so I'll get better results if I say, "I've found this to be true. Have you guys found the same thing?" , would be a good answer. Your post seems to indicate that, but I'm just making sure. Learning good "people skills" is just as important as learning about equipment)
Just Venting Personally as far as saftey gear goes I don't wear steelcaps unless it is a specific site rule, mostly I stick to redwaings or a similar type. I never wear a hard hat on the machine as it interfears with my muffs, etc. Safety is not about what you wear - it's about attitude, situational awareness and common sense. And sometimes **** happens. But that's not what I'm here to bitch about. Today for the first time ever I had someone tell me I had taken too long to do a job. I was too slow, had not done 180 degree slew turns, and had only cut about 600 meters of road across a hill with a slope of about 60 degrees in 4.5 hours with a 70hp dozer. To quote " My son said he could have done that in 1 hour on a D4" ( No answer necessary) Why don't you just pull her around, is it wrecked or something ( If you work for me and do a tight slew turn when unnecessary I sack you, something to do with the cost of those metal bits it runs on.) It seems really slow, what gear are you in. ( first going forward 2nd in reverse..it's a dozer it's not supposed to go fast) He responded with "when I worked for .... we used to." Fine they went broke, I haven't maybe that's why. As an operator, I get thouroughly pissed off with every man and his dog telling me how to do my job. Not to say I don't listen to advice, or seek it sometimes. But I've got about 20 k hours of seat time on dozers and think I might know just enough to know when to ask for help, and where the boundaries are for safe operation. As an owner I tend to pay good people well, treat my staff as I wish to be treated, and always try and do the best possible job for the money I charge. I must be doing something right, after 12 years I'm still here and getting stronger each year. So why did one clown get too me so much??? Perhaps I'm a professional. bitch session over.
Bitch session. Hi, Trackfanatic. Phineas T. Barnum is reported to have said: "You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." Substitute 'please' for 'fool' and read it again, applying it to your situation today.
Some quotes of note. Hi, -Agent. Some quotes of note: "Be sure brain is switched on before putting mouth into gear." "Education is man's going forward from cocksure ignorance to thoughtful uncertainty." "Be like the wise old owl. The more he learns, the less he speaks." "Empty vessels make the most noise." "The greatest lesson you will ever learn is that there are always more lessons." "If you ever stop learning, you're dead from the neck up." "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." 'Nuff said?
Agent, thumbs on excavators are like 4x4 pickups. They are pretty common, but they are an option, just like 4 wheel drive. When I worked for an excavating company that did mainly housing developments, out of 14 excavators, sized from a deere 27ztx minni to a 450 lc, only two had thumbs. The thumb machines were specifically for laying rock walls and bridge work. The pipe layers didnt get thumbs. Actually depending on what your doing, thumbs can get in the way. For instance, would you want a thumb on if your digging inside a double decker trench box?
Yep. Barnum said that one time when he was quoting President Lincoln, who's the one that said it first. (Barnum's most famous quote is, "There's a sucker born every minute.")
We did, but you were too cool, and knew it all, so you kept fighting it, then you lost. And no one needs to be called a "retard", thats pure disrespect, and ingnorance. :ban
I too live in the great state of Washington,like Agent.I would say that 90% of hyd.excavators have thumbs.I thought for a long time a hoe without one would be a pain,I used mine for everything! Then when I changed jobs, I learned how to use a trenchbox.Machine without thumb--Good Machine wiht thumb--bad. I never realized how they could get in the way,now I do.And on a bigger machine loading out trucks for example,the balance is far better.
Poor Komatsu This pour Komatsu has been run like a vagas hooker. Man what in the world did they swing into to do this??? Hopefully the monkey in the seat felt it
wow that thumb thing is interesting! Here in new zealand we do use thumbs or power clamps on diggers but prob only 20% ish. Lots of farm work or roading in forests etc, they seem good but they are a option not necessity.
That poor, poor Komatsu. Is logging any excuse for damage?:jawdrop
:OMG:jawdrop is it realy possible ointhead
Well I wont bore you all ,but after two decades I would not go back to sites of that era , and now in my mid fortys I have the hearing of a seventy year old. At that time no 0ne cared about safety , muck up to your knees ,stepping accross planks, no facilities, no trench boxes no boots ,etc etc seen to much lost to much . Agent lad you have a lot to learn "you got two eyes, you got two ears, look and listen to twice as much as you say" Always remember "IF YOU PUT YOUR FEET IN YOUR MOUTH YOU HAVENT A LEG TO STAND ON" I have always considered our job to be a proffession and as such always kept my ppe in my truck or car and if a site opened up when I called looking for work either on price or per hour or wage I always was ready , YES expierience is the key but first impressions last and you only get one chance at that and here all PPE must be worn while on site even the secretarys once you pass the gate. Now I will admit I have hired some lemons, guys who would put timber legs under chickens and teach them to walk one would not do what he was told as he knew better than me or the engineers and in the space of a week no one on the site would work with him, even me .The other that comes to mind tracked over a whacker but the poor guy holding it still hasnt stopped running and then ,the driver gave out to me over putting him on such a big machine ,it was a 210 kobelco. As for me I still dont know it all and thats why last Wed I started on a new course to learn more to make me know that I know even less ,and as my late dad said "ANY DAY YOU DONT LEARN SOMETHING NEW IS A WASTED DAY. " Sorry about rambling on but it how I see it .