The PC300LC-8 i look after will not start, I have only been here a short time but am told it had this problem last year and eventually it just started again, and has gone well until this week. This week it has had staring problem when cold, if it starts it goes all day. today it wont start and i have had a look at it ( instead of the staff that have been here for a long time) i have connected multi meter leads into the back of the plug to the solenoid. I have found that there is only 4 volts no load getting to the fuel cut off solenoid (Its looks to me like the fuel cut of solenoid on the main pump) When ignition is on there is zero volts at solenoid. Any ideas where I might start to find this fault. There are no error codes and i have no test equipment other than a multi meter and test light, fuses and power at fuses all look good. Thanks Max
I have to admit I know nothing about a PC300LC-8, but it's possible the ECU doesn't power up shut down solenoid until you start cranking the engine. Is it a pull type solenoid that pulls linkage?
Does the motor turn over on the starter or not? Saying an engine won't start can have several meanings. Does this engine have a manual throttle control lever on the engine or is it electronic? If manual does the throttle control lever move when you turn the throttle dial. This engine could be a Cummins clone or a straight up Komatsu engine. Have you checked the voltage on the batteries when you turn the engine over on the starter. It takes more current to turn the engine when its cold and maybe the system voltage drops below an engine running cut point. Have you checked all the sensor connections on the engine to make sure they are clean, dry and not corroded? Generally bad connections will set a fault code. Good Luck!
The motor spins over fine, new batteries last week, not even a hint of low battery for starting. its all electronic. tested voltage to solenoid while cranking, no good. Loose, or damaged connection or damaged wiring was my thoughts, I hoped you could see through the internet and tell me which one! I have had nothing really to do with this type of electronics. Will go and see if I can hot wire it (disconnected from the ECU)to the solenoid and see what happens then start checking connections and wiring. thanks max
I have had it running, it runs when the solenoid on the fuel pump is desconnected, http://www.komatsupartsbook.com/#/root/25146/5194466/5205291/5205292/5205341~zf358070.gif Thats the link to the komatsu online parts book, its the solenoid on the end of the fuel pump. Any one know what it does so i know if i can leave it disconnected? It starts and stops with it disconnected With it disconnected it gives error code E10 CA272 max
looks like E10 CA272 is telling me I have disconnected something?
Disconnecting something probably won't actually hurt anything, it just gives a code. However jumping wires or shorting through something can turn good components into smoke bombs. Do your home work before you start poking at wires or putting power to something that might get hot. Good Luck!
yes John well aware of the dangers, do you have any idea what that solenoid or sensor may do, as I posted a link to above?
I have found that it is an intermit metering valve, which means to stop or cease for a time. I still do not know exactly what it does? Anyone have an idea Max
Last one
What your pointing at is the fuel pump actuator, it's a valve that is normally closed and is opened by the ECM to cause the pump to dump fuel back to tank to control rail pressure. What you've got is a common rail engine, you won't be able to jump anything to make it start. The best advice I can offer is to follow the trouble shooting guide in the shop manual, it will have a fault called engine turns but doesn't fire, it will take you step by step through testing process. They are reasonably easy to follow but you must follow it exactly.
thanks for that, much appreciated, The machine started up with it disconnected, it put up the fault code saying something was disconnected. Once the machine had been running for some time it was reconnected and has been fine for a few days now. I will look at the shop manual and see what I can find. I can feel that my actions in trying to jump or power up this solenoid may not seem to be a good idea and that fair enough. I do have a lot of experience in a lot of different fields, but these particular machines are new to me,. I am on a remote island in PNG, i have a kato exc, pc200, Pc300. d85, D68 and a host of other gear to support 4 drill rigs. I have only been onsite here for a very short time. Since new this gear has not been serviced well,I have machines that have up to 1000, hrs without service. The staff that have worked on them since new, get things going, virtually nothing ever gets fixed, about the only maintenance that has been here is reactive. The PC300 had a 1000hr service done while I was away and the batteries died two day later as they had no water. Truck wheel bearings collapse as they have not been checked etc etc. I have next to no spare parts in stock and logistical problems to get parts here. Most of the operators are not very experienced, especially at daily check etc. These machine either break down or get damaged every other day. I have been brought here to turn this around and it is starting to happen, but it will be a long hall as we still have to use local staff and while there are a lot of good workers I need to train them to understand real preventative maintenance. And at the same time the Rods must turn at the rigs. Thanks again for your help Max
The best advice I can offer for komatsu machinery is to read the manual and follow it precisely, most manuals for japanesse products are very similar and can take a bit of getting used to as they are written differently from most others, however once you get to know them they are excellent. The trouble shooting guides are excellent, many time I have gone to a job where someone has been trying to fix something for ages and has finally given up and called they dealer, I have turned up and it is often a machine I have never worked on before, I follow the trouble shooting guides and two hours later the machine is back at work. It's great the customers think I am some kind of genius and all I have done is read the manual, I have to stop myself from laughing out loud. Anyway if you have any further problems I am happy to try and help, my knowledge on the utility and construction size equipment isn't massive but I know the systems and I know how to decipher the technical information so feel free to PM me.
Thanks again, I will get to the manual, right now i am working on one of two tractors that did injector pumps due to lack of filter changes! The 300 apparently had this problem about 12 months ago and then a couple of times last week. It only ever failed to start when cold. When I disconnected that unit and it started I really did not expect it to stop by the key, but it did. I will try and get to the manual tonight Max
So i have finally managed to get a new solenoid, some things just happens so fast here, It came from cummins, komatsu were unable to supply. I fitted the new one and no difference, it still will not start cold, or does sometimes but not often, when warmed up it will generally start, but it gave me one to play with. It is a normally open solenoid, 12V activates it. no markings to see if it is 12 or 24. So from what it does i believe it is a shutdown solenoid for over temp etc etc. At the moment the wires to it are supplying 11.2 V no load, when i plug the solenoid in it drops to 5v. this causes the solenoid to chatter as it does not have enough power to hold it closed. Running the engine with the solenoid chattering has quite an effect at idle and full rmp loaded. It is simply turning fuel supply off/on hundreds ? of times per minute. Simply disconnecting it throws a fault code for disconnected wire.. My temp solution is to disconnect it and i have fitted a small 24V globe in the circuit so the system does not throw the fault code. Now I need to know what is causing the supply of voltage to this solenoid. I would almost bet that whatever is causing this problem will manifest in other ways. for humour? a few things that happened today, vehicle come around a corner on a dirt road swerved to miss a log on the road, just clipped the log on the way past, log got up and ran way, they caught the log and brought him to the health clinic he only had bruising to one leg, one very lucky log. Drunk assaulted our health clinic workers, the night shift excavator drivers did not turn up for work, its pay day.
HI there , you say it has trouble starting cold , but no issue when warm/hot ? i would be looking at glow plugs to start with - best indicator is Raw fuel comming out from exhaust when cranking over - or when it does fire up a LOT of white smoke for a few seconds ( unburnt diesel )
When that solenoid in the picture is disconnected it starts fine, connected it will wind over no exhaust smoke. I know the problem is that the solenoid is getting power that it should not, i just need to know why it is getting power that it should not
Clutching a straws a bit & when you say it won't start when cold but is cranking over fine (no lack of oomph from the starter motor) but no smoke out of the chimney when it's cranking. I assume there is no white smoke when she finally fires up..? Does the engine have a rail pressure sensor that deactivates the injection system (via the ECM) until it sees enough pressure in the common rail ..? At that point it activates everything, smoke comes out the chimney, and she fires up. I am not familiar with this particular engine but a lot of other make/model of ECM-controlled common-rail engines work like that. Can you trace any wire(s) from that solenoid back to the ECM ..? If so the power to the solenoid is more than likely a "genuine" output signal from the ECM based on an input signal it's receiving from somewhere else telling it that it's not allowed to come out to play. It's that input signal you need to find. Can you find anything on the wiring diagram that might give you a clue ..?
Q1, It cranks fine, no smoke as there is no fuel going in as this solenoid is shutting fuel off, on start up there is no abnormal smoke as no fuel has been going in. Q2 I have n idea!! Q3, I would be able to trace the wires but the machine is going and i dont have spare machines to pull it out of service, The wiring diagram does not appear to refer to this solenoid, but i have only had a quick look. I will continue to research to try and find whats going on, I have asked my komatsu dealer for assistance but got none, as there is no fault code then most people seem stumped.
Bascially if it is a rail pressure issue it will NOT register a fault code because in essence the pressure sensor is actually giving a signal to the ECM and so long as that signal is within certain limits the ECM regards it as genuine, whether it is or not is immaterial. Hence no Fault Code. The only sure way I know is to hook up the diagnostic tooling and have the rail pressure value up on the screen while cranking the engine. One of the other parameters on the same screen is usually the "Injection System Status" or something like that. If the pressure is too low it will show something like "injection disabled", once the pressure rises up enough the "injection disabled" will become something like "injection activated" and at that point you will get smoke from the chimney. See if the wiring diagram shows a rail pressure sensor.
I wrote this reply earlier, must have hit the wrong button, any way, I believe i noticed a rail pressure sensor when i had a quick look at the wiring diagram, and it must have one as it threw a fault code for same a few weeks back, i change filters and it has been ok since but has done very few hrs since as i have had it in the workshop, perhaps it has rail pressure that is bordering on low?. it does start well and run under load well though as long a the solenoid is disconnected. Where would i purchase diagnostic equipment? On a side not of never boring i had to go out this afternoon and came back past a few rig sites to check on machines, as i approached this PC300 i noticed the operator running toward the machine with a 20l container, pulled up beside him as he climbed up on the track, when i asked him what was happening he said battery on fire. I had just the day before had the battery hold down fixed?, but they are steel bars and as it was not fixed properly one had jumped up and shorted one of the batteries, it had melted a fair amount of the NEW battery away. But it seems ok, no long term damage.
Is it a Cummins or a Komatsu engine ..? If it's Cummins you need to get hold of "In-Site" from your Cummins dealer It it's Komatsu you need to speak to your local Komatsu dealer.
ive herd of kobelcos having a inline fuse for their fuel pumps behind the seat in the cab in a mess of wires by the ground... and that fuse controls the fuel pump on cummins engines so if your komatsu has a cummins clone in it that might be something to look for, it sounds similar. if not see if there is a bad relay in the cab that shorted out and isnt sending power to the fuel shut off solenoid. also if there is an emergency shut off switch or cable that could cause a no fuel issue.
Believe it or not I had problems today with a Cummins QSX19 that would not come out & play. Same thing - fuel pressure sensor.
So are you saying it was a faulty sensor or low pressure?
Mine was actually a dodgy wiring harness connection between the ECM & the fuel pressure sensor. It caused the ECM to keep the injection system deactivated. Also have a check if you have any emergency stop buttons anywhere on your machine. The above engine was on a drill and there are 3 E-Stop buttons at various points on the machine. The first issue we found when we put In-Site on to the ECM was that we had an E-Stop signal (dirty contacts on one switch). When we fixed that we found the fuel pressure sensor issue.
I will be looking into Insite, see if that will fit in my budget when I can get quotes form my dealer again, at the moment I have not been able to get Komatsu parts all this month due to an accounting error on our behalf, I have 3 esc and 2 dozers, 4 of them are komatsu, so I am not a very enthusiastic workshop superintendent at the moment. Thanks for all your help
Just make sure first with your local Komatsu dealer that it will do what you need it to do .........
An update, this machine does not put up a fault code but fails to start and runs very poorly with the fuel pump actuator connected, the actuator tested fine and also a new one was fitted. This machine had been running fine since Nov last year with the little globe inline instead of the fuel pump actuator, as when the actuator is disconnected a fault code comes up for disconnected circuit, my 5 minute temporary fix to trial is still there. Through contacts I got alerted to a page in the manual, Failure code CA271, dealing with short circuit in the supply pump actuator, this was in Feb this year, I run the resistance tests from the plug at the actuator and they were all over the place. So it pointed to either a fault in wiring or defective engine controller. As komatsu Aus at the time has sold only one engine controller for this model in the previous 12 months and there has been no alerts on them it was deemed likely I had a wiring issue. Today( yep I know I am fast) I run the tests again, today I had good steady readings and I also did the complete series of tests and did tests at the pins on the engine controller. My conclusion is that I have No resistance to earth on the actuator feed + terminal at the engine controller, so while it has no resistance in ohms it may not carry volts/amps well enough to be a dead short, but enough to cause voltage supply problems to the actuator, I could put a mega on it but I would likely cause more damage. My solutions: as the new unit is many $ and my budget is tight and the machine is running fine it will stay as it is unless/until it develops.
OFF TOPIC THIs is off topic, but I can't make a new post due to my post count. But I have a 220-8 with the LCD screen. I want to change the service intervals on the LCD. It says you need to take it to the dealer for that but that's crap. Its just another revenue making opportunity for Komatsu. I'm sure there is some button you press or a combination of buttons when you turn the machine on in order to get to deal more or something on the LCD. I have googled it but no luck. Anyone can help me much appreciated
I think i have found what you need, I have sent a pm, will be easier to email them than post on here