I want to start a thread to get info on Pegson Track plants. I am working on a business plan to start a small tracked crusher rental business :beatsme. Specifically I want to target the smaller plants i.e. metrotrak jaw and sr1000 cone. I believe there is a small niche to be filled in the 0-10,000 tons of product and lower production over a longer period of time. I have experience repairing and working around many different Pegson/Powerscreen products including, premiertrak and metrotrak jaw, 42/428 impactors, 1400 and 1800 warrior screens, 1000 and 1300 cones. I by no means have enough experience to say what all can go wrong with these plants or comparisons with other manufacturers plants so that is the information I am after. 1) What is your experience with aftermarket support for MetroTrak and Sr1000? 2) What is your experience with O.E. support for these machines? 3) Things to look for when buying one of these machines used? 4) Am crazy to want to get into this niche market? 5) Absolutely any and all information about Pegson plants and the tracked crusher rental business! 6) This thread would be a great place to put pictures of Pegson's in action or being repaired! 7) This thread would be a great place to put links or information on aftermarket parts sources! Thanks, TIO
I had a pegson 1100x650 premier track on my books... It's around 45tons. It was abused and beaten but still kept working. Must have pulled in ten times what it cost easy. A really reliable machine. Had an issue with the hfo clutch which was a bit of a trauma (was a delay on a replacement part so had to get creative) and an issue with the electric spools. Overall I rate the after sales support (in the uk) I'll try and find some images. I changed the jaws and cheek plates and gave it a bit of a birthday only a month ago. Also had a Pegson impactor as a secondary in a limestone pit. Man that thing took some hammer... Was a little small for the application really but delivered the goods.
I also had two locotracks on my books years ago... Think they could have been 205s but can't remember. I do remember them being a headache and over complicated.
I've worked on some Kleeman units too. Mobitrax 110 and the larger evo. I personally didn't like the way they are, diesel electric, seems over complicated for what they are. Not sure if that reflects a saving in running costs? Performance wise they seemed ok. After sales support in the uk was lacking but they were not that common. Sorry to not really directly answer your question! But, are you crazy to want in? No, I certainly would given half a chance! Things to look for... They take some hammer, so anything that looks out of place. The superstructure being bent, or conveyor being bent. Will be a real headache if it ever has been... Been there, worn that t shirt! Apart from that, I reckon they are good to work with (mostly) physically pretty straight forward, and built to take a beating.
This is the 2nd or 3rd time for the swing jaw to come out of this machine! Since this picture it has been done again. The job always includes new bearings and a new shaft. They often make 2" minus with it, you adjust the jaw until you can hear the tick-tick of the dies just touching each other and you get 2" minus but its a little unhealthy for it! The economics are there to justify it however it usually takes a cone to reduce that far so the savings in not having the second machine there more than pays for $25-$30,000 in repairs. I now recommend they cut reliefs in there toggle plates so they fail first, the toggle plate in this machine has NEVER failed as I think they are suppose to......TIO
What failed on it?
Simonsrplant, The driven side (belt side) fixed bearing siezes or smokes. So you pull it all out, inspect everything and find a hairline crack between the first fixed bearing and the first swing bearing. At the opposite end the bearings are almost good enough to reuse ($2000 each) but I always find at least light bruising. The very first time this failed the shaft was not replaced but I'm guessing the crack was there. IMHO I believe with proper procedure, this jaw can crush rock being this tight without this failure. 1) hourly temp readings on jaw bearings 2) custom toggle plate 3) never starting the jaw without clearing the jamb first.........TIO
Here is the picture of the last broken shaft. By far this is the worst I have ever seen, usually you have to get things super clean and sometimes use developer or heat to convince yourself there is a hair line crack.....TIO This is a premiertrak 27x44 jaw with a c-9? cat engine which the engine has given excellent service.......TIO
Just done some numbers, your 27x44 is near enough my 1100x650 so were on similar sizes... So was it never greased? Agree with all you're saying above about custom toggle plate (although I have changed one on one of these) and checking temps etc. I've had problems from the pull back rod ends failing and the associated carriers... I've always enforced serious (over) greasing on the main swing bearings. Agree with the C9 set up, works really reliably.
Simonsrplant, yes it gets tons of grease as far as I know and it appears. At one time the schedule was about every 3 hrs while it was running , i built extension tubes so you could grease the swinger while it was moving. Now at least once I showed up and one of the hoses was gone no one knew when or where it was???....supervising the help is not in my job description and if the owner is happy I'm happy!!! Yes to 1100x1600 as far as I know they are identical just different stickers on this side of Atlantic....TIO
And I thought our gear took some hammer!
Starting the search for a machine to purchase pegson (metrotrak aka 24x36 aka 600x900). I have spent hours scouring the Internet, looking at all my options and compiling pricing and condition info. From the HEF viewers I need from you to keep yours eyes open for local machines sitting around or for sale or adds for auctions other than r-bros, I-planet. Anything will help, post links or PM me. Thanks.....TIO
A local Crusher Co' to me had 3 of these main shafts fail on 3 of their crushers in 2 months, I think the shafts needed £17'000 a lump to buy, but anyone shutting the jaw down to 50mm is realy in for trouble, the minimum recomended is usualy around the 75mm=3" with any fancy size screened off. tctractors
I was thinking about my rental business once it gets going. I was wondering how you guys thought I should charge for or deal with jaw die wear? Do you have any experience with this? What is the current norm for charging for wear on a rental Jaw? Thanks as always...............TIO
Shouldn't the wear be factored into the rental costs?
I have a buddy that uses a mic & measures how much wear & charges that way for wear.. I tell him he just guesses but it seems to work for him.
I was thinking I would keep it in the rental rate to begin with and if it became an issue with customers complaining about having better jaw dies then I would deal with it per customer. I know on the cone liners all rental guys charge for that but that is easier because you just close the cone down all the way to get an overall height measurement before then after and charge accordingly. F-service I would be curious about your buddy does he rent his own equipment? How is it working out for him? what manufacturer does he run? Thanks again.............TIO
I may be having a possible change of heart. I have been taking some long hard looks at the KPI-JCI 2650 and 2640 jaws. I couldn't possibly beat the support in the U.S. These thing seem to be built with off the shelf components (also used in wheeled and stationary plants), something that isn't true as far as I can see with the pegson brand. This would take a lot of risk out of getting them repaired when they do fail. Same problem exist with locating the lighter weight plant (2640) as with the metrotrak, either there wasn't as many built or people hold on to them longer and don't sell them? It seems to be there are about 8 50ton plants available for sale for every 40 ton plant. What do you guys think about this situation? Who knows the pros and cons of the pioneer fasttrax plants? any thoughts?......TIO
I made an offer on a metrotrak! Ill probably be in the track crusher rental business by the end of the month hopefully it will pan out to be a good thing. I know the odds are better than Vegas. Ill update as things develop. TIO
Good luck... Let us know how the machine and how the business works out!
Got the crusher! I didn't even have it dropped off at the shop a customer had it delivered to his quarry to rent for a while! Hopefully the trend of people needing this machine continues. Seems to only have a few small problems and is working real well. TIO
Nice. Hope it works out for you. What kind of power plant runs it?
Cat c6.6 power. Not a single leak on the motor starts and runs super strong. Zero blow by, smokes only when it lugs. TIO
congrats on the crusher!!! hope it stays busy for you..looks like it has been very well taking care of.
Fservice, thanks, its been used but not abused. I was very surprised it was needed for rent before it even showed up! I haven't even advertised it yet only word of mouth with a few of my customers. Last night I got another call which will probably result in another month of rent, WOW!...............................TIO
TIO, word of mouth is the best advertising you can get, doesn't cost anything band you don't get a lot of ( tire kickers), and if you only have to rent it to your customers you know how it will be taken care of by how there equipment is. Good luck on the new adventure. Overworked
Tio, in the U.K. the only pucker way to hire a Crusher is with an operator else they get Hell stuffed into them, even some of the owners manage to run them without a clue to get the best out of them, the other day I was trying to explain to a right thick un' about why the side conveyor should always be down and working even though the trap door to it was shut, well it was after I closed it and chained it, anyhow the "Pub Ugly" made it quite clear about the fact that he lets the fines build up on the non moving belt untill the top hopper is totaly full, I did point out to the man that the hopper is only of very light construction and cannot carry any weight and that is why its all split and damaged, his answer to this is well its more work for you, the thing is its a job that is never going to be worth doing, all he needed to do is deploy the side belt all the time, it was on an Extec though! tctractors
It was not used for a while pretty obvious by what came out of the fuel tank. Darn sideways pictures! Can anyone help me with the fault code? I installed a new sensor, radiator is full and I checked continuity from sensor to computer everything seems fine there......TIO
TIO, does the sensor probe have a ground wire or shield also, or does the radiator need to be grounded? Some of them I've seen were just single wire, if you lose the ground they malfunction.
I remove the sensor and clean it then poke it back home, this usualy clears this fault. tctractors
X2. I believe coolant faults are soft codes, meaning they will go away as soon as the problem is solved.
X3, that's some funky looking stuff in the filter tho!!! double check the ground to the engine also things seem to happen after equipment sits for a bit!!
Ok, I haven't been able to post for a bit. 1) I did remove clean and reinstall sending unit 2) I then replaced sending unit 3) I did test all 3 wires 24 volt on 1, continuity to ground on another and if I recall 14.3 volts on the other all the way to the cat computer on the motor.......TIO
possibly bad sensor??? I know its very unlikely BUT
Time to plug into the CAT computer and see if there's a way to clear the code, or adjust the sensor parameters?
did you get it fixed? please give us all a update...
Fservice , haven't had the opportunity. Way to busy and it keeps running with fault light flashing. I need to borrow cat ET from one of my customers for a day when I have quiet time to plug in and play. Ill let you guys know "the rest of the story".........TIO
You may need a biocide treatment in the fuel tank judging by the look of what came out of that filter. That looks suspiciously to be like what we always called "humbugs" - living organisms that live in and thrive on diesel.
sideways again! argh! Anyways I borrowed the ET, I couldn't figure out how to "change" the parameters for the coolant level sensor so I "uninstalled it" this made the blinking stop engine and low coolant level fault go off of the engine monitor. If anyone knows if I can do anything different through ET let me know I would like to make this work not eliminate it. it will take me a bit to get back to it, it just came in off rent and is headed back out to another new customer..................TIO
Looking at that ET screen I suspect the issue is that the Cat engine ECM doesn't like the Pegson coolant sensor, probably because the signal is a different form. If it were possible I'd try it with a Cat sensor.
A bit of an update on the "venture". The crusher is with its second customer and many other phone calls, good. However the repairs have cost way more than the revenues!!! :Banghead I am not nervous yet i consider all of these repairs as "capitol improvements" i pray they level off soon and the revenues start to overcome the costs. The current issue is the fuel system is being replaced, the engine is a cat c6.6 and it has low psi in the high pressure fuel rail. I have also come up with some interesting potential customers, they need the crusher ASAP and are willing to pay "up front", then i say i still need a credit application and a certificate of insurance and i never get a call back? I "googled" one guy and the first 5 search results that came back were lawsuits!!!: ointhead Oh what fun it is to own your own business.......>>>>>TIO:
I would think having a rental crusher would be a losing battle. I assume most of the companies renting one (especially from a small business like yours) would have little experience operating one. Doesn't seem like something you can toss to a noob w/o having issues. Even if you recover the cost of damages the downtime and loss of rental associated would be costly. I may be way off but I'm not a risk taker.
All businesses could be a losing battle. Businesses are a fine balance of limiting risk and liability while producing revenue. I can recall being a noob once and asking lots of dumb questions, I do believe i can now answer some of these questions for potential rental customers. As far as recovering cost of damages this is standard rental operation but also the rental time loss while repairs are being made (if customer is responsible for repairs) is also charged to the customer, now this is sometimes slightly a gray area perhaps they don't pay for the time it takes for the parts to be shipped but at least while the mechanic is working on it. This crusher rental "venture" may be a loser but my current business plan is to produce as much revenue with no employees at least until that special field mechanic comes to me looking for a job LOL. With no employees i have decided the best way to produce revenue is to buy and rent equipment out, i have chosen track crushers because i know i can't compete with the dealer type renting, i.e. excavators, dozers, loaders etc............TIO
I knew you had it well thought out. I have never been around crushers thank god but can only imagine what a inattentive or inexperienced operator could accomplish. I worked on rental asphalt mills and tub grinders and the memories make me shiver. Glad I didn't own them.
you should always be getting 1st rental up front that way they always pay ahead or before you know it they are 2 payments behind and your crusher broke .
As tctractors suggested earlier renting a crusher complete with operator is the way to go. A good operator can reduce what I refer to as "disaster potential" by a tremendous amount. Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable having a very expensive piece of kit under the control of someone who I didn't have direct control of, if that makes sense.
Last rumor I heard was Cat dropped the 6.6, to many warranty claims, valve train damage after repair, I never worked on one and friends at cat said don't. What's your opinion?
Is the toggle plate in a single toggle jaw crusher the "fuse" the "weak link" ? or is it just a piece of wear metal in a hinge joint? I was taught it was suppose to break apart if the jaw had uncrushable material i.e. tramp iron fed into it> but now i am wondering if this is actually true.......TIO
Extec units are fitted with an alarm switch for when the toggle bends or breaks (the Fuse) but a near blind man can see the big chunks of rubble heading up the main belt without it. tctractors
[video=youtube;RJDBq5QdBZc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJDBq5QdBZc[/video] a video of the crusher.....TIO not to exciting but that is my first ever youtube post. I had to shorten it from 4 minutes to 1 minute for some reason. I will more videos and better ones in the future....TIO
TC you know we have all come on to a job and wondered if the operator was actually blind!!! And exactly what would an alarm do? Operators are trained not to pay attention to alarms because they are always going off for some reason or another! How often does someone actually think that fixing a faulty alarm is a good use of time? LOL......TIO
The inability, lack of Compus Mentus, and total thick un's that I come across constantly, and that is just the bosses or managers is off the scale now, years ago the boss on a site was top draw and new exactly what was going to happen and when, so to expect the workforce to be any better than what they are is realy something that is impossible to discuss on a platform like this, the total daft things I have been around would take up a few gallons of ink to print, so a flashing light or an alarm is not going to stop the crusher working, so my job is very safe as long as things keep at this record low of "dont give a stuff" The little Blue Beast looks to be on some very easy going in the video, you probably know that the running of a Crusher is best with the jaw set above 40mm and product screened off for the size needed, also crushers work best when they are not leaning to the left or right side, I dont mind a bit of a slope from the feeder end down to the jaws, but I often go to sites and the Crusher is even set up in the wrong spot??anyhow I have spent all last week including the weekend working on a C12+ with the CAT motor, I have been impressed by the owner who is 71 and sharp as a razor, but sadly is let down somewhat by the skins around him that could do thing better and easier, but I am not there to instruct his staff. tctractors
[video=youtube;qfRcqTL2w6Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfRcqTL2w6Y[/video] A video of an impactor i replaced the under screen drive motor on.......TIO
Ok, from my advertising I have received many phone calls from people wanting to crush down to 3/4" from 20" with one machine! Obviously there is a market for this which I was not planning on catering to but now I am thinking about it. I can think of a few options 1) rubble master 2) buy and completely refurbish an old jaw/roll duplex plant 3) eagle impactor. The criteria again is easy hauling which to me is one piece under 80,000 pounds. The above video was a customer who rented my jaw to feed this impactor, later deciding my jaw just got in the way and did not really increase production the problem here is the closed circuit impactor is very heavy and cost him nearly as much to haul in and out as it did to rent it for the week they had it! Does anyone have any experience with my three mentioned options? From past experiences I have some huge reservations about massive wear on impactors......TIO
it is possible to crush that much reduction with one machine .but i think it would be more cost effective to crush it with jaw then screen and send overs to an impactor then back to screen
Hi, I did my apprenticeship at Pegson in its original location of Coalville in the uk, Spent time in parts/service/warranty depts. Took an opportunity later to move to their USA distributor to help build the profile over here as well as worked at the NY dealer for a year too. 20 years all in all, I have a lot of general knowledge of the machines and many contacts, Now work for myself, Feel free to contact me if I might be of any help, Email me [email protected] or Tel 502 777 3167 and my names Danny williams
The toggle plate on a Pegson jaw is designed as the "Weak link" or "fuse" and therefore should fail before anything else does under normal circumstances, however we must remember that these machines are into 5-10-20 years of age now and the chances of the original OEM toggle plate still being fitted are slim, A lot of aftermarket companies copy and sell them based on general appearance, Not necessarily per the spec IE Material type. Most types are Cast and should crack and be checked regularly (Wont necessarily fall out although severe cases did) its possible to crack the toggle plate but continue crushing therefore causing further damage to other areas, Some newer models have a plate type that are designed to bend but all should be made to spec (probably the most important part on the plant that you shouldn't take risks with in that respect) Other common toggle/shaft failure issues were related to either them not being seated properly upon fitting (Sometimes hear a slap if this is the case) Or incorrect grease type being used on jaw bearings Or under greasing OR over greasing (Can trap the heat in there by doing this) Greasing schedule and type is very important If a shaft fractures it isn't necessarily because something went thru the machine that should have caused the toggle to break, Often its related to excessive heat via the greasing issue mentioned above Another thing to check regularly are the flywheels and alignment, They aren't designed to slip/spin but often do should something go thru the chamber that shouldn't have just due to momentum, So check that the arrows line up and make sure they are torqued up to spec also
Nothing wrong in using general aftermarket wear parts such as side liners/cheek plates etc but be cautious with toggles and jaws Jaws are designed to fit and operate within weight limitations, Iv'e seen some aftermarket jaws that were almost twice as thick as the originals but maybe not tested or approved by factory for use etc Also make sure that upon rebuild the outer bearing caps were torqued up accordingly (should have a little nipple on top of the large bolt that holds them down) not certain this has been done prior to every shaft rebuild over the years - Don't want any movement in there Also the bearings may or may not be per original factory spec/recommendations if they've been changed over the years And i'd assume the inner bore of the swing jaw would have been checked with each rebuild, Any bearing spin in there could also cause a heat issue and transfer to shaft etc
_<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Seen shafts crack at the step, hairline- parallel, but not like this. Heard of a situation in where if the big rock didn't break, pushing it in with the bucket would do the trick. Unfortunately your pic looks like it, or potential over-grease / no-grease / wrong grease ?
Should be EP2 grease and a good idea to monitor the temps around the bearing houses, Look for bubbling paint etc, Also important to stick to greasing schedule just incase. its possible it was simply a bad shaft, I vaguely recall we always used to bring the shafts in from the OEM in England, But when we needed one quickly about 5-6 years ago they allowed us to have them made locally to the drawing (Which was fine) but the manufacturer wasn't able to source the exact same material type, He used the nearest he could find, Shouldn't have made any difference but since that time who knows what people are having them made out of?
Building some new skirt belt for the Metrotrak. First time using the forstner bit instead of a punch.
Customer rented my crusher and had to walk it in a mountain road 2 miles. Speed = .75 miles/hour
Painfully slow!
[video=youtube;hy2NtP_IFbA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy2NtP_IFbA&sns=em[/video]
Probably a little overkill on the excavator! Kind of a David and Goliath situation. Production was 100 yards an hour mixing broken sidewalk concrete and basalt pit run to make a super nice grade able 3" minus.....TIO
Glad she kept up with it
Hi was wondering if anybody could refresh my memory with regards to a low clutch pressure fault on a 2013 Pegson Premier Trak On The display it reads: 5 HFO pressure low Once jaw engages it will disengage couple seconds later indicating the said fault. What should the pressure be & where is the adjustment made?
Sorry it is a 2003 Pegson Crusher
Strangday, My Metrotrak has a hand knob in the valve body about 2" tall silver thing. Turn this ccw 1/2 turn and everything should be good for a while. Another trick is to start the jaw first increase engine to high idle let everything settle then start VGF and dirt conveyor. Mine has a partially failed VGF motor that takes more hydraulic flow than new which causes a dip in the hydraulic pressure when it starts. Sorry I don't have the pressure setting for that machine.....TIO
This is for my Metrotrak, maybe yours looks similar, maybe Danny will pick up where I am falling short on this one?...TIO
Same principle Joe but different valve types :-
TIO thanks for your response! I went out to the crusher yesterday & when I started it I noticed only the feeder wasn't working. About 3 years ago I had a similar problem with hfo pressure low displayed on the screen. I remember adjusting the crusher pressure switch & noticed the pressure wasn't increasing....only when the screw bottomed out did the pressure read something like 31/32 bar. I left it like that & now 3 years later it started playing up again. Your post jogged my memory & I remembered the pressure switch was turned in all the way so thought I hit a brick wall! I unscrewed the pressure switch 2 turns & for some reason the feeder started working again. It doesn't make sense as it only worked 3 years ago with it fully screwed in. Thanks again for your post
Danny thanks also for your post. You guys are on the ball! Do you know where I can get more Tech info with regards to the Pegson premier trak as she hasn't had a proper health check & considering its age & working environment I want to go through the systems to get a better idea of the present condition. Any info will be appreciated across the pond
Anytime glad I could help....TIO
Hi, Yes, Let me know your email add please and we can get that sorted out mate
New bearings being installed in a Pegson xa400
The swing jaw in this crusher has worn out its bearings. The bearings were worn enough the swing jaw could walk back and forth enough it was rubbing on the cheek plates and fixed bearing mounts. First jaw I have torn apart without a broken shaft or seized bearings. Stretched the limits of the crane and the truck lifting and packing the bits back to the shop. It's up and running now tough to concentrate on taking good pics sometimes so no back together pics.....TIO
Well done, Never an easy task
I built a new hopper and replated the VGF on my little Metrotrak.....TIO
Looks like you did a good job of it buddy
Well it's official I have sold the crusher!!! This business venture of renting smaller tracked portable crushers is not for me. I made lots of efforts and still lost lots of money. I did not go into this business as being naive about crushers or there repair but rather what it would take to get the machine rented out enough to make it viable...that's all for now......TIO
Sorry to hear that but I appreciate you updating us, it kind of confirms my suspicions about those!
Sorry on 2 counts, You were my first and best customer, Real shot in the arm when I needed one, And also since I grew up at their factory, Very proud of the product and still am, I remember the Metrotrak when it was born, The Eurotrak! Designed to break into Europe since we'd just been purchased by Powerscreen and suddenly had dealers, Terex purchased it all renamed and came over here afterwards to specific dealers that wanted them and they've since moved around.....Or you just got a ****** one I doubt it though