Hi guys! This is my time working on crane of any kind! Guy asked me to help him to get this thing ready to load on RGN. This is Pettibone cherry picker, can’t find any tags or sights on it. I’ve been told it’s 65 ton. All I know it’s tires as high as my chin, it has V6 two stroke screamer and two piece Clark 2800 three speed powershift transmission. Now the question: I can steer wheels only about 3 degrees each way, then it becomes hard and steering wheel slips. Pressure is 1600 psi. I more used to having 2400 psi. Is it normal to not be able to steer standing still? Steering valve is very rusty but kinda looks like Che Lynn 100 series, which looks ridiculously puny on that monster. If someone can point me out to manual for that thing I would greatly appreciate that! And last question: what I the world DiN fittings doing on supposedly American built machine?
A lot of rough terrain cranes don't like to steer unless moving. Big fat tires. Sometimes it helps the front steer if you boom up to 15-20 degrees or so, just to get some weight off the front end.
The owners plan is to use wrecker to pull it on the RGN. I wouldn’t say there’s too tight where it sits, but there’s not a lot of room. This thing will have to make at least one 90 degree turn pulled by the winch, then there’s required precise steering when getting pulled on the Low Boy by the winch. My worry is will we be able to have adequate steering to do all that at winch speed at 1600 psi? Is 1600 norma, or should I bee looking at reasons why the pressure is low?!
Another question: I cannot pump the air system more then 60psi either with its own compressor or the one on my service truck straight to an r tank. The pressure drops considerably fast when engine shuts down. And I don’t hear the gross air leaks anywhere, just a little hiss at center pivot. By experience I know that airbags or some kind of component with bellows will do that. There’s no airbags. Can you guys tell me what else can leak on that machine without making sounds?!
Its probably leaking the air inside the swivel, and then the air is probably escaping into the hydraulic system, or into one of the air functions (transmission/ throttle). There's no way to stop it without resealing the swivel group. The air system gets moisture in it, takes out the seals in the swivel/ corrodes the barrel, then the air leaks. Use a come along on the steering linkages to pull the axels where they need to point, and hope they haul it a long ways away where you won't have to work on it.
Hm! You just might be right! This thing say stationery for 17 years loading unloading furnace. So only crane part of it works, the travel part is shot to hell and stuff that still there pretty much disintegrates in my hands! Firs he wanted to drive this thing on RGN under its own power, but then when I took a look at it became obvious that it’s gonna cost boat load of money to pay me to come from Mobile to New Orleans just to fix it enough to drive on the Low Boy. The soldered copper manifold for the four solenoids that operates speed selection and shuttle shift comes apart at soldered joints every time I touch it! The only thing, the owner of this thing is one of those customers which you say NO to only if you have problems getting paid - and it newer happened! So I am SCREWED! Well! At least there’s job security for a while!!!
Should it be safe to guess that I will not be able to find the rebuild kit for pneumatic center pivot? As far I know Pettibone is not messing with cranes anymore, just telahandlers and forklifts. Did they sell the crane division to someone else?
I would source the seals from a hydraulic shop. Likely the barrel will need honed, its usually steel and will be pitted in the air section and rusty, hopefully not too bad that the hone won't clean it up. The inner is usually aluminum and should be fine. If you have to- you can have a new barrel made by a good machine shop/ hydraulic shop. Weld on or thread in fittings in a new barrel. No one makes the pettibone line anymore. You probably won't find a seal kit. And if you did find one, it would be three times as expensive as just buying seals.
Just to be honest about it, it would likely be cheaper to just buy a different crane than fix the pettibone. A 30-40 ton rt from grove, link belt or terex, 20-30 years old or so, can be bought under $40,000, for a pretty nice crane. It won't be hard to spend $20,000 on the pettibone, depending if it needs tires/ transmission work, new cable, hydraulic/ air lines, brake system, etc. etc. etc. There's a local guy here that sent a old P&H neck breaker to a repair shop, and told them "fix what's broken". He got a bill for over $40,000.
You’re right, but the owner of this thing likes to full him self thinking if he bought something for cheap that it will come out cheaper! I’ve stopped trying to talk him out of doing stupid things long time ago - no use! It’s his Crane for a long time ago, it worked as a stationery crane at his friends business who builds big industrial marine and off shore hoses. His friend sold the business and new owner demolished the furnace that crane was loading and unloading, and wants crane out of there! I was told that crane portion was maintained good, they just didn’t need the travel side. The owner of the machine owns shipyard which works on multimillion yachts. He wants to build another pier and wants to use this to hammer in sheet piling. It’s either this or the American he has in the yard, IDK about that one but he said it has two engines and one of them is bad and it’s reverse rotation and hard to find. Guy has money and does whatever he wants! He is my best customer! Look what was pulled out of water with damaged propeller, I’ve been told it was $6.5 million new!
Forgot to tell you: this guy used to own chain of hydraulic hose stores from New Orleans and SW Mississippi to Shreveport!
What seal material is used for air center pivot, something self lubricating like PTFE?
I have no idea what pettibone would have used for their seals, I doubt its anything exotic. Pull the can and pull it apart. You'll have no idea what size seals you will need until you pull it apart, then you will know size and what they are. Some are seals, sometimes they have backer rings, sometimes not.
Now I’m scared that he is gonna want me to work on that American!
Nobody drives piles with a hydro, they won't stand up to the abuse very long. The american should be a old lattice truck, and would actually be a much better machine for the task. I think you would find the american much easier to get working, and parts easier to find, there's a lot of the american's out there still working. They are simple and robust machines, and more common than the pettibone. But sounds like the guy paying the bills knows everything, so just keep sending him the bills, and fix what he wants. Good luck.
I’ll milk that cow while I can! What about the reverse rotation engine? Is it true?
It could easily be a detroit, 6-71 or something like that. They can run either way.
I think the American is close to twice as long, but I’ll tell him about what you said about the hydros not handing the abuse. I actually very much like that old four axle beast!!! Another thing he wants to do with Pettibone is build spreader frame and pull boates out of the water!
The big problem with a hydro and driving piles, is the telescoping boom won't take it. A pinned lattice boom is the way to go.
It is a screamer! His engine guy wasn’t here today, he knows a lot about those two strokers. I wonder weather on those the center of crankshaft is offset to axis of cylinders. Maybe we can just change the head?
Frankly a was not thinking getting in to cranes! Had enough to do with smaller stuff. Have you ever heard about heavy duty wrecker actually picking up one end of the rough terrain of this size and dragging it? That’s was this guys idea today!
Anything is doable with the right equipment. Most 65 ton RT's are around 80-90,000lbs, so if the wrecker is big enough to lift 1/2? I've seen pictures of wreckers made from big quarry dump trucks, for pulling them when broke, so yes its possible to pick one end up. But ---- If you are just trying to get it on a RGN, a semi- wrecker to pull it on, and some chain come alongs to tug the steering around would be my solution, you could even force the tires the direction you wanted them with wheel loaders or big forklifts with a old tire as a cushion if you wanted to. If he doesn't need it all working (mobile) when he gets it where its going, I'd be doing that before pulling the swivel apart. I think the swivel repair may be the least of your problems getting it mobile, if it hasn't moved for 17 years. If its just setting on a pad/ dock to pull boats, I wouldn't mess with getting it mobile.
Another thing I don’t know is how bad the break shoes rusted to drums. I had my Freightliner sitting for two years and I tried everything under the sun to free up one wheel because I had to urgently move it - nothing worked. Ended up ruining two tires dragging it out on hard compacted travel. I guess I’ll just get bunch type 30 spring compressor bolts and case of penetrating oil, compress al 8 springs in break cans and spray the hell out of between shoes and drum. Knowing his operation ( constant distress mode ) - hell want it mobile. The other guy who worked on it before me said he manually pushed shuttle shift rod and it tried to move. But air system gonna have to be fully overhauled. Thinking may be even some things will be converted from electric over pneumatic over hydraulic to straight electric over hydraulic. I checked slip rings looking good and found only one burned wire there.
Thanks Crane Operator! Your input is invaluable and greatly appreciated!!! Got some more bad news! Told the guy about what you said about telescopes and hammers - now he wants me to find reverse direction water, oil, and fuel pumps and a starter!
Ready to load! It’s actually sits 90 degrees to position it was in for I been told 17 years. Google map still have pictures of red roof of the furnace this thing was loading! I got itch all over me because of fiberglass insulation from that furnace!
Looks like a 90-sc, those are a 45 ton. The only one I've seen of those in real life, had a set of rail gear under it. There sure aren't many of those out there. Make sure to pick up those outrigger pads, looks like that may be a 2 man operation. Pray you don't need any hard parts for one of the winches or the axles, they are pettibone specific, and I doubt you can get anything. Probably 6v-53 detroit?
Let me ask you: does outrigger circuit has Hydraulic on/off valve somewhere beside the mechanical on/off in the torque converter gear drive? Everything outrigger is dead! I didn’t have time to trace the hoses and pipes, I neede to make it load worthy because tomorrow I’m leaving for 3 weeks!
Run from the Pettibone, give us more details about the American,they are great old cranes ,very simple to work on and the best for pile driving. And it will most likely do a good job lifting boats if its rigged right.
I would guess the outriggers not working is electrical, but I don't know enough about pettibone to tell you. I wouldn't even know who to have you ask, there's just none of them out there. You're just going to have to trace the hoses and find the solenoids and probably just jumper wire them. Tugger knows what he's talking about. The american. Something is going to break on the pettibone, there's no used parts out there and you're going to have to band aid any issues you find.
Амеrican dufutly got repowered by Detroit screamer with wrong rotation! May be you guys can help: I have this crazy idea if it’s all hydraulic drive and all gear pumps may be I should think about flipping the bodies of the pumps instead of reversing the engine?! But Ive only seen that machine from a far - will get to take a look at it after I come back from Seattle m! Although repowering of Ascom 100 ton travel lift scheduler on 4th of July week!
Looks like they both gonna get restored and ASAP! Competitor up the river went under and this place gets overrun with work!
Get some pictures, so we know what we're talking about. Find out if you are talking about upper or lower engine. The outriggers down are hyd, but upper is mostly all air and torque converter. I'm assuming its a lattice truck. If its lower engine, you're going to have to deal with travel, but really, tugger is going to be much more help, I'm no american, or lattice friction man at all.
BTW scuttlebutt going around the yard that that fancy y I’ve been told that travel engine works beautifully, the crane one is wrong direction. It’s four axle cab over machine, I’ve seen hydraulic joysticks for control so got to be pilot circuit. But it’s all I know as of now!
About that scuttlebut - people saying that that fancy yacht belongs to Brett Farves brother, idk if it’s true though! There’s also showel sitting on the back, I mean not excavator but real tracked shovel. Don’t remember but I think I’ve seen Erie written on it - are you guys interested in that one too?
I’ll post some pictures of American when I’ll be back! Tim to get some sleep, just got back from Big Easy and can barely walk!
Yes it’s solenoid operated, I jumped solenoids straight by Power Probe, also pushed the buttons on them - all four outriggers and extenders totally dead!
Another question: that Clark transmission has another shift rod, close to the bottom on the front. It is doesn’t have shift cylinder or a bracket, I read that these 2800 series can be 3 or 4 speed power shift, or 3 speed power shift with mechanical splitter which makes it 6 speed. Do this mean that one is 6 speed? The 4wd sifter is on the back - so it’s not that.
Yeah! If it’s torque converter than it’s probably no way around that with wrong direction.
One very important question I keep forgetting to ask: where do I look for model/ serial number on that machine?! So I at least know what I am dealing with.
If its an American friction lattice machine the serial number is on the outside of the cab right below the front window.
Thanks! What about Pettibone?
Hydraulic hose is really bad for pneumatics because of troubleshooting reasons! Hydraulic hose actually leaks as million tiny pinholes, which is almost impossible to hear - but it leaks fast!
Is this something that still available?! Or should I not waste time and go straight to machine shop?!
The inner portion will be fine with just new seals on it. Clean it up a little. Have the machine shop make a new barrel, if its pitted/ rusted so much that a hone of the barrel won't allow it to seal. If the area where the seals ride looks like it would clean up and be smooth, the rust between in the port area won't matter.
All the dark areas on the inside of outer shell is rust! So I’m not gonna even waste time?
The only portion of the inside of the outer shell that matters is the thin area where the three seals ride. The rest can be all pitted up, it probably is from moisture from the air system. But that area doesn't matter, just the thin band where the seal sits, and usually it isn't in too bad of shape. If it is grooved at all, the hone won't clear that up. If it just a surface rust, sometimes a machine shop hone will give you a smooth enough area to seal. You would be surprised at how much a light hone will fix, I had a larger national swivel that was rusted pretty bad, and the hone got the sealing areas good enough.
I’ll inspect it tomorrow! Got two cylinders going to machine shop for re hone or possibly barrel replaced! Water spots!
By the time you find all the parts and swap them over on that 671 you could find a good used engine and have it swapped out and running and money ahead. that one in the crane now probably came out of a boat that had 2 engines one right one left and somebody made him a helluva deal on a left
American actually have V8 for the crane part! Owner decided not to restore it, he’d rather destroy telescope on cherry picker. Although he thinks it’s not gonna happen!!!
well if he's going to do it with one that bone will probably be the best bet their built like a brick s//t house. as far as that 8v same thing holds tru if he ever gets that wild hair again, swap it...
Started to pull outrigger slide cylinder, because it or hose telescope or both leaked the river as soon as you started the engine! Telescope came out with no problem, cylinder went about 1/4 of the way and got stuck! I was pulling it by hand, then I decided to give it a pull with forklift, then it wouldn’t go either way with forklift starting spinning on gravel, then it got dark! Question: why it got stuck? Because slider tube collapsed a little while under load? What if it wouldn’t go either way on Monday, should I cut out the window on top of slider to cut the bushing on rod end to free it up?! Don’t want to push too hard on long and skinny rod!!!
You are trying to replace/ reseal the outrigger beam extension and retraction cylinder? There should be a pin and hose connections on the opposite side of the beam from the jack cylinder (opposite side of the crane). Remove that pin that holds the end of the cylinder and disconnect the hoses. Then slide the whole beam and cylinder out together.
Knock the pin out where I have it circled, and disconnect the hoses there, and then pull the whole works out the other side. If the pin is rusted, cut down on each side of the pin and then you can blow out the rusted pin once you get it apart.
That’s what I did, but the rod side of cylinder got stuck inside the beam! It looks like that pin was going inside the bushing that is inside of rods eye end! And either because the oil leaked for so long and got dirt accumulated on the beam walls, or beam walls collapsed a little after the years of putting the load on it, but that bushing is jammed between the beam walls now! Or something was there that not supposed to be there, or something broken off of telescoping pipe/hose bracket! I’m gonna try and carefully pull the other one on Monday, see if I can learn something new! But both pieces pulled easily by hand at the beginning! Found 3/4-16 tap inside of the beam BTW! At least where I could reach with my hand!
So what you saying that rod end of the cylinder supposed to be inside of the bracket that holds the telescoping pipes, and the whole thing fastens to a beam with the same pin? If it’s the case - then something got broken off or separated!
But even if it got broken off, it’s still meant to come out together!
After I pull the pin where I have it circled, I generally put a wood block in there to hold the rod or barrel off of the floor of the box beam. Then slide the whole beam, jack and cylinder out the other side of the crane with a forklift. There should be a pin in the sides of the box, on the other side, that holds the other end of the beam extension cylinder. Some have the barrel end on the side I have circled, on some cranes the rod is there. It doesn't really matter, it should have a pin holding each end. The jack hoses are generally laid in there in a S shape with the cylinder. I have had to torch out the pins when they haven't been apart in a long time. I wouldn't go torching holes in the outrigger box beams, that's structural and it will never pass a crane inspection again, unless you hide it real well.
There’s only one pin on the jack end, so I assume that both rod end of the cylinder and the jack end of telescope supposed to be connected and fastened to inside box with the same pin. Otherwise the jack hoses would be the ones which will be pulling on telescopes when extending. But I’ll pull the other one and see for sure! I’ll do my best free the cylinder without cutting anything and bending the rod. But if it will come to that, we will only cut the top ( not the sides) of the box, and make sure that we will butt weld the patch with tight fit and good bevels followed with good weld! For compression action! This crane is a yard crane, and 99% will never will be used on outside jobs ever, and don’t have to be inspected. But still I don’t want anything to happen to it! The other departments is riding my behind because now as they see this machine in the yard they want to use it! Although I told everybody that it will not be work ready any time very soon, because the bottom of the machine was not used or maintained for 17 years! And needs to be gone through and rebuilt thoroughly before putting in service, so it will not start having annoying and dangerous break downs on the middle of the job. They have barge coming in on Monday, with something on it that they use to have two machines to unload, but now they want this one because it will be faster and easier! But they having problems understanding that it is not ready!
Well! It was late, I was tired and stupid! And missed another pin which hold the cylinder eye and was about 3 feet deeper!!! But now the question: need to replace telescoping tubing because it’s pitted and some of it bent. Looking at honed and chrome plated tubing, need to choose between CDS or DOM, and I have no idea! So need to know what pressure should be in outrigger jack cylinders, to calculate burst pressure?! Or plainly just tell me DOM, CDS or both will work?!
Pressures are usually around 2200-2,500psi in most cranes I've been around. Some newer stuff may run up to 3,000 before pressure relief. BUT- I have no idea what pettibone had for pressure. That is a unique beam telescope. Is it actually two extension tubes in trombone/ hollow tube, so that it doesn't have any hoses across, it sends the jack fluid through the beam extension cylinder?
Yes! It’s like you said trombone style. The smaller tube has bronze slider fasten with roll pin though both round bronze slider and tube it self, the ID of bigger tube is honed so slider goes on it slick! I’ll Post some more pictures tomorrow!!! I think on both CDS and DOM I can go up to 3000 psi with my O.D.and wall thickness! Was little worried because DOM does have welded seam that smoothed out later. Looks like I can get smaller tube in DOM only!
Let me clarify: the extension cylinder is mounted above these telescopes, telescopes only transmit outrigger jack flow, extension cylinder have its own hoses. But you right - no hoses inside the extension beam, just short pieces from beam hollow to jack cylinder at one end, and solenoid valves on the other.
But now you intrigued me with the S style laid hoses, maybe I should just eliminate telescope, weld in couple bulkhead brackets and be done with it?! Are those hoses something special, like high flex hoses? How much clearance do I need from bottom of beam to the bottom of extension cylinder?, should I use couple of thermoplastic hoses glued together?
Came down with strap throat and high fever. Was laying in bed and looking at pictures of different outriggers systems all day. I think only thing economically viable to eliminate those telescope would be the “hanging (sagging) hoses”, if they will not sag too low and be dragging on the ground. Everything else could be involving too much labor and parts ( like reels), so it will be cheaper and faster to just rebuild “trombone telescopes”!
It will be cheapest to just redo what you have. No need to reinvent the wheel if you don't have to . Grove just uses regular hose, laid in the beams in a vertical s shape, anchored at each end with clip/clamp. P&H used to use a paired hose. Some bigger ones had reels the smaller cranes didn't . Most other stuff is similar to grove.