We bought a small farm that came with a fixer upper pond. The seller probably spent a good deal on it but it never held much water. I'd like to see if it can be salvaged into something better than a shallow pool surrounded by a mud. The overall layout is a 200 foot long dam bordering about 1.5 acre excavation. Looks like about 9 acres of runoff might flow towards the hole. Before "drilling down" on the pond specifics, isn't this thing twice as big as what a simple rule of thumb would suggest?
Picture davejo, we gotta have pictures !!
Basic starting point
Very small, if it isn't sealing after cleaning it out you got few ways of sealing it. Pigs, bentonite, or pond liner.
lotsa sheet rock. lol
I'd like to confirm what losses I have and see if I might have soil on hand to seal it before buying more clay, bentonite or liner. I think gleying it is one of the few things I can't try. This is what it looks like. I think the water level in the little test hole is higher than the puddle next to the dam. Obviously I have to get rid of the catttails to start assessing the situation there.
From the looks of the test hole, I don't see a need for a liner. Dig that test hole down to 8 or more feet and see what the resulting water table is over a period of time.
What is the soil like? Will it make a ball and stick together if you squeeze it in your hand? I also see some rocky areas, this can cause fissures that will drain the water right out. Are there any wet spots below the dam?
What's going on with the broken concrete in bottom left of the pic? Erosion control dam? Side note - once you get the pond dug to where you want it get some grass growing ASAP. Looks like the runoff on site contributed to the silting in.
i grabbed some soil that came out of the test hole. The jar test is my first one and I don't know how to read it. Mostly clay? The stuff in he pan is what I rolled in my hand, pretty gooey and smeared deep into my fingerprints. If I ride a dirtbike through the soil the knobbies get clogged up if there is moisture in the soil. I show a mud dauber nest as evidence there is clay somewhere within insect distance we havent noticed any obvious wet spots in the dam. This area is riddled with karst limestone and I have boulders of it that the excavator pulled out of this hole so it might simply be fissure like you suggest
You could try poking some holes in the bottom of your jug to see if you lose water from above the material, draw a line on the bottle of where the water line is before poking holes. Looks like it may be good material but it likely should be that, solid/compressed, for about 2 feet thick. I've got tree roots and junk that are what I assume are causing the leaks in my pond. I'm assuming you know that even though it looks dry-ish on top that'd likely sink a machine.
Yeah all the rock definitely isn’t helping the situation. I’m guessing quite a bit of rock got put in the dam, which also is not ideal. Are there other ponds near by that stay full?
The soil looks like a silty clay. Since the property is in karst area are there any sinkholes?
My initial thoughts are that they didn't put a core trench in under the dam when they built it and the water is simply seeping under it. I have seen this happen too many times.
If it were me…… I would dig the dam out and start over. I wouldn’t trust what someone else did especially since there ain’t any water in it. I’d do it correctly as BAM said and put a core trench in, backfill it with the best clay dirt you have on site and at least you can say that part is good. Now for the seepage you might have in the pond itself, that’s a different story. As others have said, your best friend is a 8-10 ft test hole and see what you find.
If I understand a clay core, it has to extend down and seal onto an impervious layer of either more clay or solid bedrock? Water can seep through the pond floor and dam face but is held back by the dam core and the impervious structure buried below? I'm thinking I probably don't have an impervious deep layer. The county map shows a sinkhole about 400 feet away, uphill, yikes. (cm1995)
The core trench usually extends 3-10’ deep below what was the original ground surface. The purpose is to interrupt any paths for water along or just below the surface (roots, varmint tunnels, old pipes/wires, etc.) The clay core itself starts at the bottom of this trench and goes up all the way to above the water level, and simply acts as a ‘last resort’ to seal any leaks. The other part, depending on what type of overflow, is to have anti-seep collars around the overflow pipe going through the dam. Again to prevent water from following the edge of the pipe through the dam. Are there other successful ponds near by?
I live in a limestone rich area where sinkholes are quite common. Common enough they have taken a couple roads and a few houses over the years. This one is not far from me - https://original.newsbreak.com/@apr...a-s-golly-hole-the-largest-sinkhole-in-the-us Hate to say it but if you have shallow rock veins you may never get the pond to seal as the water will travel between the clay and the rock - hence the sinkholes. Do you have access to a backhoe or excavator to dig a few test pits?
davejo, what county in Va are you in? (you can PM me if you don't want to post it). There are some counties around here that ponds are basically a no-go due to the geology and/or soil type.
There are a handful of ponds nearby, some hold water, some don't. definiteley hit or miss. Most of them are pretty crude, shallow affairs where a farmer just starts pushing dirt into a berm to make a hole where his cattle can get a drink if water happens to collect in the hole. Within half a mile the neighbor has one full pond and one dry one. Both have veins of rock sticking out of the bottoms. My pond was built as an aesthetic feature or maybe for fish as the previous owner left some huge boulders stacked up attractively for fish structure or for birds to light upon? The sellers were doctors, not farmers. The dam looks engineered to me and has a siphon system for the overflow so there is no pipe penetrating the base of the dam. There is also a small spillway thing at one edge that is lined with rocks as a second overflow.
Bentonite Bucket Test Kit Pre-weighed packs of Wyoming Sodium Bentonite Clay for testing pond soil. Determine the best application rate for local pond soils. shop.naturalwaterscapes.com Here's an $80 test kit for bentonite dosing. I figured i could make my own test bucket. I drilled about 15 or 20 small holes in the bottom and packed in about 6 inches of the test hole spoil. There were about 10 drops of water coming into my catch pan the first day and none today. I'm not sure if this is a standardized test but i'm happy with what i see
Much better deal than 80 bucks! I'd be pretty happy with 10 drops then none, as well. Make sure there is some air under the bucket, so it's not just airlocked.
After 9 days the bucket only lost a few drops out the holes. I dumped out the upside -down dirt cake and about 1.5 inches of it were soft and saturated. The rest was pretty much unchanged and the bottom of the bucket was not wetted.
Welp, I'm jealous of that, assuming you get the same results all around the pond.
Finally a local project materialized so I can get some fill for my eyesore pond area. Due to poor planning on my part I have about 20 piles sitting about 1-200 feet from where they need to go. Also didnt have a compaction plan. I have a friend that was pushing piles with his trackloader but he doesnt have time to help anymore. I have been moving piles with an old excvator but it isnt too efficient. Considering renting a machine to move these 30 piles. What is the appropriate machine for this?
I would rent a tracked skid steer,(CTL). This might not be real efficient, but rental is pretty cheap and it will get the job done. Also, the track machine will somewhat compact the fill as you run over it with bucket after bucket of material. Just put it in in this lifts and you will get pretty good compaction.
I've found the opposite to be true, CTL(even with a full bucket), mini ex, dozer, etc = poor compaction. In the absence of proper compaction equipment, you need something on wheels to do the job. Wheeled skid steer/backhoe/loader tractor/wheel loader with a full bucket, dump truck with a load on, etc. A good sized 4wd backhoe would fit the bill for both moving and compacting materials, as would a wheel loader, both assuming the conditions aren't too wet or soft. Large CTL would work well too, but you'll need something else for compaction. Or rent a dump truck and load it with your excavator.
So you decided to fill it in or did I miss something upthread?
While a rubber tire machine would pack the soil better, a track machine will be fine. Also, the track machine will likely allow you to work in wetter conditions, as well as ride better on the long parts of the haul. Those rubber tired skid steers are pretty bouncy. After all, I assume this will just be a grassy area, and you re not building a house on it. Just spread your layers out to about 3"-4". Yes, it is slower this way, but it will be well compacted by the time you are finished. I have filled in 3 old ponds using this method. Never had a settlement problem later on.
Is the OP trying to fill the pond in or using the material to re-line the pond to get it to hold water?
The "fill for my eyesore pond area" had me asking the question.
Thanks guys I am filling the oversized excavation where there is no hope of it being covered in water. I'm keeping the area in front of the dam as a modest pond which I still need to seal or line. Its got about 2 feet of water in it today. I'm thinking of using the filled area as a site for a riding arena now which got me worrying about the compaction stuff.
Open arena or a pole barn type arena?
Open arena but covered would certainly be nice