Been hearing from more and more folks that they are giving some of the overseas / asian OEMs a shot given the supply chain crunch. Do you think any of the new OEMs that aren't as well known in North America have a shot at giving Cat and Deere a run for its money?
You missed out the most important option - "Don't give a rats ***"
What machines specifically? Komatsu and Hitachi are always in the running as far as excavators go.
You're right, the Japanese OEMs have a long history and are more proven. I should have been more specific. I was more looking at the newer OEMs out of China that are well established in Asia but still relatively unknown in the USA.
Nothing from China will compete and its not even close
I thought the supply chain crunch was a Chinese created problem? Does it matter which brand are they not all created in the same state run communist factories? Given the current political situation I guess I wouldn't be investing hundreds of thousands in a machine that might not be supported next year On the other hand I have no problem with global trade and do believe they could build high quality machines if only they cared a little tiny bit about anything other than undercutting the price
Cat has some machines built in China.
That’s the understatement of the year.....
I think it has been shown pretty clearly that China can build high quality products if they want to. Usually it's the OEM who specifies the level of quality they want. What I have a problem with is the products are made for a lot less than say in the US but the product still sells for the same price as it did when made in the US. Just corporate greed in my opinion.
Sany. When customers can’t get parts for the normally higher regarded brands in the times they are used to they will say screw it and “might as well buy the cheaper brand”
Second and third tier quality machines are normally purchased by second and third tier customers who usually struggle for financing and run their operations on second and third tier management and employees. The stuff over time will end up in fields, vacant lots or at the back of equipment storage yards with a hundred tons of junk in front of it.
I would consider Hitachi and Komatsu along with Cat and Deere, but they were not part of the survey.
I'm sure you are right, for the most part, but wasn't Komatsu a second/third tier manufacturer at one point?
Komatsu actually came in first tier as they joint partnered with International Harvester to start with and then picked up all the pieces when IH imploded. Hitachi also also came in first tier when their gray market excavators were found to be far better than anything Cat, IH P&H, BE, Poclain, Drott or Allis ever made in those days. All the South Korean and Chinese stuff is generally, at this point in time, at least one generation behind in technology and four or five steps back in quality. All this in my opinion of course.
Komatsu partnered with a few different US manufacturers and then developed their own machines. Early excavators were a Bucyrus Erie partnership. I think Hitachi were the ones that really outshined anything else when they came out and forced the other brands to catch up. The UH series really put them on the map. Now most excavators are of Japanese design.
Yeah just like tools or anything else from China, I don't want to pay American prices for china made products. Its always a middle man and then 2 or 3 other middle men that jack up China product prices. We the end user always end up paying top dollar. Retail mark up is always around 100%. That means X tool is purchased from X box store for $10.00, that said store paid $5.00 or less for. It maybe even higher now. I have got some very crazy buys on some quality tools that an industrial supply outfit was phasing out, like $10.00 for a well known America made 3/4 drive ratchet brand new, and many other tools there too.
I know a guy who had 10's of thousands of dollars in Snap On tools. I think it was an ego thing with him, he bought something off the truck almost every time it came by. He had an auto salvage and then a successful repair shop. Then he also got into raising chickens. Made a lot of money. Things went sideways when he and his wife split up. He eventually sold his chicken quota and closed the repair shop. He decided to go to Sturgis one year and basically took a couple years off. He wasn't thinking too clearly when he left. When he came back he discovered pipes had burst in the house but that wasn't his biggest problem. He had a little shop on his 80 acres at the front of one of chicken barns. Someone had broken in (not too hard) and stole all his tools! I think the only thing that might have not been taken was the large Snap On tool box. I asked a mutual friend about it and he said the guy won't talk about it. Money doesn't always mean you have you smarts.
I've seen the opposite right now. Only Caterpillar has some parts on hand right now, deere and komatsu have very little. The other brands have nothing and are waiting on the slow boat for parts. Everyone trying to keep their machines going right now is cursing the overseas trade. Same thing with tools right now. Was going to buy a set of sunex impact sockets but it was either wait 4 plus weeks for a set to arrive or pay more than usa made proto for it in stock, so proto it was.
None of them in my lifetime. As others have stated it's not necessarily where the machine is built, it's the philosophy of the company making it. Good companies make bad machines sometimes just like good contractors make mistakes in building a project - it's how you handle your screw ups that sets business's apart.
IMHO the proto sockets are better but I have never broke a sunex socket yet neither.