Plow King and Anyone else I'm new to the industry of Crushing & Screening. I used to be an owner/operator of an excavating/landscape and nursery company. I've been pulling levers in the dirt since I was 14. I just switched over to the Aggregate side of the house from selling Heavy Equipment for CAT. What are your thoughts on Crushing/Screening as far as IROCK, Screen Machine and Terex Findlay are concerned? A lot of smaller sized aggregate companies are saying they like the tracked/portable crushing and screening equipment. They can get close to the bench, shorten cycle time and cut equipment costs with it. What do you guys "in the dirt" think about all this. Good or bad let me hear it. Semper FI:usa
Tracked mobile crushing and screening equipment is the new way of the world Brent. It doesn't always get used the way it should, more than 50% of the time it will eventually end up statically located within the pit and for all sorts of reasons. Mostly we find its because repairing underslung componentry after it comes in contact with an underprepared ground or a stray rock can be quite expensive and time consuming. US operators might be a little more conscientious, who knows? The real compelling reason is financial. A lender can advance money to an owner much more safely against brand name mobile plant - knowing if it turns to poo he can quickly liquidate the machines involved at known values. A static plant is almost a liability to a lender. Another compellng reason is ease of transport. I see crushing palnts for sale all over America which need 5 or more truckloads to shift and then a week to reassemble at a new site. Two lowboy trips and an hour or so setup is all you generally need with tracked to do the same job. Having said that, there are a lot of new players trying to catch up on the market with their versions of tracked mobiles. There are some real lemons out there, believe me. This is my opinion only, but from what I see of the current Powerscreen, Finlay, Nordberg, Masterskreen, etc. products, they have really cheapened since they were taken over. It seems like companies more interested in marketing have bought these famous and formerly high quality brands and are capitalising on their hard won reputations while neglecting to advance them in any meaningful way other than cost effectiveness in manufacture and which ensure a revenue stream for the companies after they're sold. They have failed to even continue what made them great. That's modern business I guess and most do it to one degree or another if they want to stay afloat. You'd be familiar with the concept coming from Cat even. Still, there are a few models which are still good producers and which will last the distance we're used to and we need to last in business as a contractor, aggregate or hirer of such equipment. Its just a matter of finding someone who knows and can (and will) tell you which they are.
I made this into it's own thread, seems like it will generate enough discussion on it's own.
your portable crusher depends on your needs. the ones the I have worked on would move into the the pit or quarry, (5 to 9 loads, depending on the job) and we usually could be up crushing in about 6 hours. ( 3 guys setting up.) we would usually produce any where from 5000 ton to 40 000 ton before moving on to the next job but that also depended on the customer. I Dont know much about the track units, we were going to rent one for processing reject material from a mine but it never came to be. I have seen them used on demolition sites, and talked to a few of the operators, and they like them but they say the impactors are a little labour intensive. but once again, it depends on your needs. If your not going to be crushing Concrete and demolition, you could get away with a Jaw unit or Cone . then , you need a screening unit as well. If it was me, I would look at a mobile plant , like a Cedarapids, Elruss, Clemro, because I know I can get good service and parts in my area. I have never seen and Irock system so I cant comment .
I should clarify my post here: I mean two lowboy loads, one for the tracked crusher and one for a tracked two or three deck screener. One man can set it up in an hour (if there's a flat floor) and then he runs the whole lot from the loader - or excavator and loader combo using radio control but usually only in an emergency stop scenario. Sounds good to me compared with 5 to 9 loads for a wheeled version, 3 men and a 6 hour setup. They'd need to be very good and very experienced 3 men to get it unloaded and set up in that time too I suspect. They'd need to be very fit shovellers to clear away under the axles. You'd also need lifting gear at both ends. I don't know what a man costs per hour in the USA or what a truck costs per mile, but if I was doing that over here the establishment costs would kill my competitiveness unless it was on a 100,000 ton job to spread the cost more thinly, in the meantime the tracked guy doesn't need to worry about that. cheers
what kind of ton per hour do you expect to make?
It depends on the job specification and the crusher used but with one Nordberg LT100 (a 50 tonne 40" x 30" tracked jaw) the hirer peaked at 487 metric tonnes per hour and averaged 360 over 6 months. (I think a metric tonne weighs somewhere near 2250 pounds). He was producing 6" top size from blast basalt admittedly. When working with crushers in dry material most of the tracked screeners we use are good for up to 400mtph with three splits down to a 15mm (.6") bottom deck. Less if smaller of course but these are only 22 tonnes with 10' x 5' decks, if you want to do more, you use a bigger screener of course.
As stated her you will need less machines with tracked units. The least "solution" is where the screener also follows the main crusher. It will then only be needed with a excavator and a wheelloader to do the whole prosess. If your loader has a onboard weight you can do the loading straight out of the screener and onto trucks. Some firms here in Norway run a wheeled cone and screener system.(instead of a tracked one) Sandvik has a popular wheeled modell. This system then needs a extra whelloader to carry the products from the main crusher and into the cone. U would then, as a example, be able to produce a 0-120(0-5") from the main crusher, and then choose to run it through the cone or stack it as a product. Secondary cone can then be set up to produse another two/three products out of the 0-120. But then this is out of the rock found here. Different rock quality might give you another result if u use double crushing.(Jaw+cone) Resycling systems on the screener might also be a solution to keep quality up.(you don't crush it down to the maxsize, but resycle oversize) Your rockquality might be so that its no problem to only run a jaw + a screener system. Backside is as stated transport.(weight and height) And i bet it can be a though area to compete in. Always some real experienced firms to compete with... You also need a good excavator driver to load out the floor straight. Some of theese crushers got a smal and not so solid undercarriage...You want the crusher as big as possible and the weight as low as possible...Then the produsers save on the undercariage.. Then i say excavator, cause you want the rock to be blasted right. Not blasted to death with only fines in it...Then u will find some rocks bigger than wanted. A hammer to the exc is therefore a must...
Just stay away from CEC crushers, they are built cheap and will give you problems. I've run two of them and neither one was much in the way of staying running.
Something like this? :usa
Mobile is the only way to go, it would seem. Contract Crushing / Screening is big business in the UK Some very big pits ( you maybe call them mines ) here in the UK are finding real benefits in replacing thier old static plants with tracked crushers and screens. As stated by others ( I am not a crusher man ) the right crusher with a double or triple deck screen can produce several products that can be trucked straight out the gate, by incorparating jaw and cones and a couple of screens some pits are producing 6 or more products straight onto trucks with 2 operatives, an excavator and a shovel. Have a look at this site http://www.hub-4.com/ it gives some very good info on the global market not just UK
Portable Crushers go to www.rubblemastersystems.com
komatsu seems to be a popular brand around here as i have only seen komatsus and 1 extec.
I haven't seen many Komatsus but I hear one of the larger contractors around here is enjoying them. Otherwise, Extec seems to have a good crusher/screener and I can personally say the Terex-Pegson provides excellent crushers too, since we've had them on one of our jobs for a month or two and there was little, if any, downtime and it just kept making big rock into little rock no matter what we found.
Ran a Terex/Pegson crrusher and an Extec screener. Working with steel slag, the Terex machine would kick out the jaw when a tough piece went through( mostly bits of steel or a thick chunk of slag.) The only thing i really didn't like about the Terex was the control panel was on the opposite side of the alarm beacon, which forced you to walk around the hopper, or near the discharge belt and in front of the mag belt. Other than that it was a great machine when it was running right. Never had a complaint with the Extec. Always had great finished product come out and never any contamination. We screened some pretty dirty stuff (slag with wood, rags/tarps, steel shred, and assorted rubbish mixed in.)
portable crushering i like pegson premairtrack 26x44 nice strong machine,and keestrack screening equipment,cannot kill the novum model
mobile crushing ont he subject of crushing,I find it useful that you need to have a good rappaport with the crusher operator! the operators main duty is to produce and keep the machine running,This could be quite stressfull,because of the stone size,fines content,every one wants to close down the jaw and make baby-powder! the jaw i work with id deseigned to take onley 10% fines my people whant to make 5o% or better!!!!! the other factor is whoever is loading cant wait for the materiael to go down the grizzly,the loader operater complaines the pile under the belt is to high??? and when the unit stalls the boss wants to know how long its going to be before its up and running again!!! oh, and dont forget to call the fuel man!! and you better have it up and running after coffee break......
i worked for a large portable crushing company. we used lippmann duo-king portable crushing plants with jaw primary and roll secondary for road gravel, 22a 23a 22a. mod. depending on how wet the clay was 500tph was nothing for these plants to handle. the company operated 3 of this type. when crushing and sizing other materials such as 1" 1/2 minus, 20aa, crusher dust, r34, ect. we tried to stay with cone crushers. we believed we got a better fractonated crush with a cone than with other plants. svedala, metso minerals, allis mineral systems are a few of the brands we worked with. this company often runs op to 10 different materials at the sametime. so buying many different types of crushers and screeners allows us to taylor a plant to process the material to the costumers needs. everything they own is road portable.
The Komatsu crushers are quickly gaining popularity here in southern california. We have a few BR380s like this one but seem to sell more of the larger BR580. The remote features are pretty cool, the operator can control the crushers movement and operation without leaving the cab of his excavator. We have had very few problems out of them, the only kind of annoying part from a mechanics standpoint are the safety switches, there are over 20 of them and if it wont start you get to walk around and find which one is tripped, but they are there for a reason and they do their job well.
Portable setup Our setup. Terex finlay 1175 Jaw 30x42 Metso Nordberg hp300 cone Metso Nordberg 620 tripple deck screen. Worked this setup all summer. Some pro's, Some con's with each piece of gear. Worked them from March till mid Nov. so learned quite a bit about this particular setup, but always willing to learn more. So if anyone has been around any of these 3, please chime in with pros and cons. I have a long list, but will not discuss them at this time unless someone is interested.
We have 2 terex/ findlay 683 supertracks and they have proven to be great for our application. We use them to screen out rock and size coal that is too poor of quality to run through our wash plant. Brent if you make it over to eastern ohio get with Jim Harris in Cadiz and he can bring you out and see them in action if you like.
I too have run a terex/pegson recycle jawcrusher crushing slag with a terex/powerscreen screener behind it. The crusher didn't have the auto feeder program in the plc ( the later-ones did I believe) so I really needed a crusher operator too for keeping the jaw full. Problems i had when the jaw opened up for some unbreakable chunk and it was big . it wouldn't fit between the discharge conveyor and the hydro tank. I also found out that for slag (which is pretty heavy) if the jaw opened up with the jaw full the discharge conveyor lacked power and would not pull it out. We went to a demo for a terex/finlay screener with a steel feeder conveyor and found the unit quite impressive . It had steel rollers (the powerscreen has plastic) and seemed pretty rugged build. What I dislike on the screeners is the lack of conveyor slip guarding.. I mean just put in a little plc and secure the operation.
Has anyone had any experience with the Rockster range of crushers , from their website they look like a great single operation with double fines screening and return belt for oversize , but it would be great to hear from someone who,s worked with one
I had some contact with Herr Norbert Feichtinger at a European Expo a couple of years ago and I think he was a senior engineer with the Rockster company. Certainly he was an impressive guy with a huge knowledge of the challenges operators routinely faced. I watched the demos, asked him questions and I noticed he answered all of them accurately and from a knowledgeable background rather than the product brochure. He knew his stuff, which is very unusual among guys out there to meet people and sell machines. The machines struck me as being very professionally built with a long term ownership expectation. There are other very good crushers of course, but Rockster is right up there. I would own one. cheers, Gordon
I'll definately agree with you on the build of the machines very impressive and well thought out , I guess it all comes down to the final application of the crusher and if it's suitable for the task . I,m researching as much as possible the best machine to process building rubble and reinforced concrete , most guys that i talk to swear by a jaw crusher because of it's capabilities of handling a reasonable amount of reinforcing mesh through the machine but but the downside is the requirement of secondry crushing and screening especially if you require 1" minus final product .The Impact crusher namely the Rockster claims that it can crush and screen down to 1" minus in one pass , but i believe the pre preparation,removing most if not all the reinforcing would slow the whole process greatly . Then last but not least is having a portable self contained crusher in a reasonable weight range that won't require a freight train to cart it about .I'm going to quit on that note ( giving myself a headache thinking through all this stuff )Cheers Shayne
Almost all demo recyclers lose most of their profitability in the pretreatment process. Usually I find by the time they have the feedstock down to a size and shape suitable for crushing, its small enough already and hardly needs crushing! The key to making money from this must be in the least pretreatment possible, which all but rules out a jaw. The need for the concrete to turn almost 90 degrees to fall into a jaw from the feeder is a problem that is redoubled when the rebar has to also turn on the way out without ripping the belt. I used to run two Nordberg City Crushers, model C10/07 Horizontal shaft impactors. They were able to accept comparatively long lengths of rebar with no issues. The feedstock needed minimal preparation and as long as the slabs were less than 700mm (28") wide they could be up to 40-50" long with rebar or mesh inside. These models discharged onto a steel vibrating feeder which caught and turned the steel before it reached the discharge conveyor. Wear was an issue, we could use special hammers we had made which would do 50,000 tonnes but had to be careful of any "hard" tramp iron getting in there or we thought the hammers would break. We never broke any so maybe it wasn't a problem. Initially we used the Metso stock hammers and they were doing about 10,000 tonnes. Dust was our biggest problem, of course we could spray but that causes problems of its own. My first choice for demo though would be one of the Japanese roll crushers. We've had three of these, two kobelco KMC300R and one Hitachi HR1000 and they are very hard to beat for every reason. No dust, quiet, fuel efficient, endless production, huge feed slabs accepted up to 2m (80") square can be eaten without pretreatment whether full of mesh or rebar. The smaller HR1000 (20 tonnes) can deal with a 2.1m (7') long piece of mangled rebar no problem whatsoever and the Kobelcos even longer. There is a 48" drop from the crusher outlet to the top of the conveyor belt is the reason. The Kobelcos roll along at an easy 90-100tph and the Hitachis 60-70tph at 1 1/2" product size. Feed that through a screener set in closed circuit at 1" and you'd have exaclty what you wanted and not too many "fines" I have one of the kobelcos available in Western Australia right now as a matter of fact. Gordon
Mesh or Rebar Which is better to use on the interior here? Also, What size wire mesh would you actually use inside ( http://www.bwire.com/resources.html use this measuring model if you don't know wire mesh). Is this really fine mesh that is being used or is it something a little more open like 3 x 3 or 4 x 4 wire cloth material? Thanks for the info guys.
McClosky is the best, metso a close second, and anything is better than terex powerscrap, bad expiriences with 2 1800's a 2100 and their sad excuse for a cone
Appreciate that.
sorry man, nothing personal, just we sent back the cone at 2200h, and the screening plants like to throw counterweights around (they have a revised model w/o the offset), we had to re-engineer the hopper flashings, the list goes on, we run 24/7 and they cant take the abuse in the north (-40c) McCloskeys are built better, and you can manually operate just about everything
does anyone have experience with the hartl model 503pcv? this is a track mobile impact crusher. who is the u.s. dealer on the west coast? known problems? who builds the impactor unit? anything at all. transport weight?..........................theironoracle
I don't know the US dealer or the origin of this exact crusher element, buit I do know they've been made in China for years now, but also made under licence in many other countries because its a good unit within limitations. I find resellers are less than forthcoming with the real news on these older designs. Mostly they are for secondary or tertiary use only with light materials but suppliers will emphasis the feed opening with the implication that if the feed aperture is 36" square you can drop a boulder that big in there. So end users do and sometimes the results are catastrophic. I'd say if you had an original Hartl and used it as the manufacturer and designer recommended, you'd have a very good crusher. On the other hand, and this applies to nearly all manufacturers these days, if its made under licence (or copied) in a developing country, where the factory manager will switch to a cheaper steel, bearings etc. the moment the supervisor is not looking, that is another matter altogether. A large static Hartl impactor installed new here in New Zealand and fed on "as dug" limestone has exploded so many times it has been removed. If you like. tell me what you want to process and I'll suggest an impactor for the job, if its an impactor job. cheers,
http://www.livignoscavi.it/pdf/Minitrack_PCV.pdf say no more, use this as a primary on hard rock at your peril.
flash2004, i am not an end user, just looking at one for sale that needs some repair that then i would resell or rent out, typical rock around here is 12" minus basalt, how about the komatsu br-300?.......theironoracle
I'd be reluctant to use an impact crusher on basalt as the wear factor would probably be way too high. Basalt goes through a jaw well and crushes nicely to a good shape usually. A Komatsu BR300 is an older jaw crusher which, in its day, was a very reliable unit, if quite low production. Its like the tortoise in the tortoise and the hare story. So it would be a 1994/5 model probably and might have a lot of old perished hydraulic hoses which might be a reliability issue. Komatsu use their own fittings so replacement of hoses is not a simple and cheap matter. If your rock is 12" and the BR300 looks generally OK to you then it would be a reasonable risk to buy and sell, but parts might be your problem. They're available in Japan readily enough, but expensive and there's limited used parts available. Usually you don't need them, but that's the risk, everything wears out sooner or later. There was a later BR350 unit in the Pacific Islands and its hydraulic crusher drive motor failed. That was a frightening exercise for the owners, thousands of miles from anywhere and no ability to see if this or that might fit, limited detailed technical expertise outside of Japan for advice too. I think they found a spare motor from a burned out unit in Australia finally, and finished the job. cheers
thanks flash2004, been around a couple late model pegson plants, jaws and impactors. the impactor worked great making 2" minus from this 12" minus i refer to about a set of bars and liners per 10000 tons. when used close curcuit to make 3/4" minus it burnt up $25,000 in wear iron in about 10,000 tons "not good" the salesman said it could do it so he got to buy the wear iron (we provide labor)!!!! the pegsons in our area are by far the most popular, but i am sure the dealers would not be nice to others renting there type of equipment so i am looking for other good brands with generic or otherwise decent parts availability (not interested in frightening excerises)....thanks for any info.............theironoracle