I've got a HD16DC #4538 Problem; When it is sitting and running with the master clutch "engaged and trans in nutrall" it acts like your putting a big load on the engine (enough to make it smoke black) even tho its not in gear. If you dissengage the clutch the load goes away and it purs like a kitten. This machine uses a diesel drive torque converter, would this old of a machine have a Over-Run or sprague (not sure about the spelling) clutch in the converter. I have herd if they go bad that it will make it seem like it is working hard all the time even if your not pushing a big load. All your help is much apreciated.
Nobody ?:beatsme
When does it fault; upon start up or after operating? What's the engine RPM in said circumstance and once the clutch is disengaged? It would have an overrunning clutch (one-way) either a sprag or ramp and roller. They both do the same job but have different designs. If they fail prematurely then you'l know all about it, if it fails to lock there will be no torque multiplication, no drive etc If it fails to free-wheel then it will restrict the oil flow at coupling point and you will get overheating problems etc That being said, are you experiencing any of these (or different) symptoms?
What is your Stall Speed? What is in your Filter Cuts?
The machine will spin the tracks even in second gear. Yes, it has always heated especialy if you have to travel very far, not so much if your doing work that involves short pushes. Not sure what the stall RPM is and and not sure about the filter cut as it is a diesel drive converter. I have never seen anything out of the ordinary in the fuel filters and it has always had good fuel pressure. Wish I could hear another 16 running so I had something to compair it to. I'm going to be puttin it in the shop today to do a valve job on the front head so maybe I can take a video of it's little problem
Sprag clutch, is a lock up device to give a solid lock up drive when for instance driving down a steep slope, the engine and transmission are mechanicaly linked, the torque would not hold the tractor safely by itself. tctractors
here is the link to the video of what it's doing. YouTube - HD-16 strait piped!!!!
So you have an HD-16 that has manual transmission and torque converter? If so, how long has it been doing this? Sounds like you have a bearing or bearings going down in your tranny. Just a wild guess though.
Its been doing this for as long as I can remember. Tranny turns free, no metal or chunks in the case ither
weird problem ya got there turbo. :yup does it get better as the machine warms up?
Would be interesting to disconnect the universal joint ahead of the tranny, if it has one, then try it. The Cat D8- 15A series had a Twin Disc fuel torque with a manual transmission. The torque converter had to be full of fuel at all times and a return line with orifice/filter bled any air back to tank. That small amount of fuel returning to tank would actually heat the tank over time and by mid-day the operator's back was comfortably warm. If it were meant to be a dry torque housing and it were full of fuel instead, might create some drag, just a long shot, as I'm not sure if there was ever a design, using diesel fuel, like that. It's not likely AC made the torque converter, and quite likely that same unit is found in other iron of that time period. If your torque temp goes up when working, and it's not your cooling circuit, that is not a good sign either. Phil
I have watched this site for years, so I registered to pass along some info about your HD16 question. I have 2 ACHD21As which I keep as farm dozers and farm toys They have the Mark II engines in them which are an improved version of the original AC855 engine. Both are turboed and are driving the fuel torque converter into manual transmissions. At idle and clutch out, transmission in netural, I show a little black exhaust and when I engage the clutch the idle drops a little from the torque converter load and transmission load and the exhaust cleans up. If you are showing fuel pressure at a mediun idle, it should drop and come back to the same level when you engage the clutch. I watched your video and saw and heard no differences compared to mine except that your idle speed seems set low and engaging the clutch killed the engine. I am turboed and set about 300hp and I show a clean burn at higher torque converter load rpm except during the engine rpm spool up. If you are spinning tracks in second gear, you have no converter problems. Not sure which engine you have in there, whether it is an AC855, or a 3 valve 855 or a 4 valve 855, don't turn it up because HD16s rear ends don't like 300hp. My torque temp goes up some but it has the intercooler and it is not much hotter than the water temperature. The only problem I ever had was on the first 21 I bought . The return line from the cooler to the tank was plugged and the fuel pressure went out of sight. Fuel pressure guage was shot, replaced guage and cleaned line and about 40psi fuel pressure at full push load. When you get the head rebuilt, the idle pull down problem and black smoke might clean up. Bob Chillicothe, Ohio
Turbo, I saw an old AC like that, that had torque converter problems, when the fuel level got low. See if the fuel level is low, if it is top off the fuel as often as you can, it might help.
Thank You, That is the answer I'm looking for. Still, I wonder why they would do that. I have never seen any other cat with a torque do that. Mine has the 1600 844 CI natural asp. it is only 170 rated HP so my budy and I are thinking about putting a turbo on it. I have one that came off of my 3406B truck engine. We thaught it would be fun to try, maybe it would just clean up the existing black smoke and cool down the EGT's a bit. I am very carefull not to abuse it I've been running it sence I was 6 years old and have never tor it up so running with more power don't bother me, I know how hard I can run it now without hurting it so I'm pretty sure I wouldn't tear out a final or nothing. Thank you again for giving me some kind of comparisson
Your correct on the 844. Mine is 844 ,21000 series, not 855, was thinking about a cummins a neighbor is having a problem . Another thing, have noticed if a fuel filter starts to plug, the fuel pressure gauage will drop but everthing still keeps running until the fuel gets down near 10 lbs on a push and the converter will really slip. Then the next is engine rpm will drop off.I ran the tank low this summer pushing up some banks and started losing power, was fine on level ground. The high pressure fuel problems I had was return line plugging problems in low spots of the return line between the converter and orfice regulator and between the orfice and the tank. It was a blck gummy fuel that had settled in the low spots of the line. If you every have fuel dripping out of the bottom of the converter, you have internal seal problems starting. Also grease that conver a couple of shots every 20 hours. I though you had the 1600 and that is why you have the black smoke at high RPMs. A dozer friend has a 1600 in a later AC fiat16ps that he turboed and turned it to 200hp. He is cautious with the deaccellarator when shifting and no jerking on start up. The torque convertor will cushion some of the shocks to the final drive but not when one rams into a tree that wont move. Sounds like you are aware of the 16 problems and have kept it in good shape. I went from an old junk IHTD15 to the 21 about 12 years ago and never knew that dozer pushing could be so much fun. Bob Ohio
Hi turbo8781. We used to have an Allis-Chalmers HD16-AC cable blade dozer.It had the clutch & torque converter set up like yours.I remember when we would snap in the clutch it would pull the engine down abit.Mine was a 1957 model,after you snap in the clutch it was just like operating a power shift tractor with the torque converter.Pretty crazy running diesel fuel through the converter but it worked fine.We never had any trouble with it.I had the wife scan in a few pages out of the service manual and a breakdown of the convertor.
Update Got her in the shop and got the heads off. New injectors, valve job, and in the process of trying to find a exhaust manifold (rather difficult) maybe some of you guys know where i can find one. I can get a turboed manifold with turbo on it. Maybe some of you have some thaughts on making it a turboed engine. a little more power is always nice , not to mention the efficiency
here's some pics of my junk manifold
and one more
Here is the list of dismantled Allis Chalmers machinery off of Machinerytrader.com, I'm not sure exactly which of these would be yours by the way they describe it. http://www.machinerytrader.com/drilldown/modellist.aspx?ETID=3&Manu=ALLIS-CHALMERS I also included their Fiat-Allis list, as it lists 1 HD16DP.... http://www.machinerytrader.com/drilldown/modellist.aspx?ETID=3&Manu=FIATALLIS You can also do a part number search or parts and component search on their website. Main page. http://www.machinerytrader.com/default.asp?GUID=F049995E750B4CBF929307638EB34AFE Hope this helps, Alan627b
Thank you, most helpfull.
Another update Got the engine back together and decided to go ahead and put a turbo on it. Now the turbo came off of my 3406B truck engine so as you can imagine I had to do a bit of custom enginearing but so far so good. I still need to check the manifold pressure to make sure I'm not getting to much for fear of head gasket problems but we'll se when I get it out of the shop and go stick its nose in the dirt. I'll have to post a vid and som pics.