Pulled my injector pump to change out leaking umbrella seals and decided to have the pump "rebuilt". Spent some time yesterday trying to prime the pump and bleed the fuel lines.... no luck yet. Used the manual lift pump lever to push the fuel..... 1 got fuel to the IP 2 thought I could then push fuel out the return ( on the IP) but did not get any ( maybe not enough time given?) 3 pulled off the return line and removed "check" valve and filled the IP by pouring it in 4 used starter to try and get fuel out @ injector lines..... started to come out in small squirts ( matchead size amounts) Less at first but as the morning wore on it seemed to be getting better ( larger pulse?) I am getting fuel mist out the exhaust.... the return line from the IP is filling with fuel.... tried a little starting aid to help fire but no luck yet. And of course the battery does not take well to repeated starts. Had it jumped while trying. Left a charger on her last night and will get back at her this wkend. Any tricks to this.... things I missed in procedure?? I was thinking to pop the check valve out of the return and crank with it open.. thinking maybe some air still inside the pump? Should the other injector lines be connected while you try to bleed one? At the beginning I had the 4 of them hanging there to see when they would start to pulse fuel.... seemed to take a while to get anything. Thanks for any help....... and oh yeah..... JD 310b
"Fuel mist out the exhaust". And it does not start. That is an indication the injector pump timing is not set correctly.
Pump was removed with flywheel pin in, pump window showed lines in the right spot... was re-installed same way with everything lining up... even the mark I made on the mounting flange lined right up.... so I'm pretty sure we are back to correct timing. Of course @ the start of the process, no mist.... as we progressed through we were getting some....
Did you do as thepumpguy instructed ? Do you have a good flow of fuel to the filters ? If not apply a small amount of air pressure into the fuel tank. That will show you if there is a blockage in the tank or lines. It would help if all your questions for this problem were in the same thread.
Yes, followed all that. Removal was fine, sent him the pump, and install all went well, This thread is dealing with priming the pump ( system). thought it needed a "new spot"...?? I am not sure I have all air out, and was wondering if anyone had some things they had done in the past. Will hand filling the pump through the top return fitting ( check valve) completely fill the pump? and will just cranking purge any bubbles Are the dry fuel lines simple and quick to fill while cranking? Or should I expect to " push" fuel through the pump and up the injector lines with lifter pump And any insight into what volume should I see when a pulse is sent through the lines to the injectors. Would one leave all 4 fuel lines disconnected( from the injectors) until good flow is established... then bleed the final connection? Thanks...
I don't know what you mean by new spot. If the timing is correct it will run once you get the system primed and the injectors bled. Bleed them by loosening the nuts on them one at a time. I never EVER prime a pump by using the engine starting motor. Hand filling the pump through the check valve will not work if there is a restriction in the fuel system from the tank all the way to the injector pump. That is why I suggested air pressure to the fuel tank through the filler cap or pipe. You must have a good flow of fuel to the filters or you will never get it running like it should. Many times I leave a continuous supply of air to the tank until the injectors are bled. Are you sure there isn't a fuel shutoff (solenoid) that is not functioning correctly ? Is the lift pump working if it has one ?? Fuel should squirt or run freely out of the filter bleeder when cranking the engine.
Filling the pump through the check valve port is like priming an engine through the exhaust pipe. I opened the check valve port and let the tank pressure fill the pump till it overflowed the port. (couple of hours) My rebuilt pump started with two crank cycles. Sounds like your timing is off or air in the lines. Also make sure your check valve & return line is clear. If it's not, the pump can't pump fuel to the injectors.
Engine was running before the start of the project. so I'm pretty sure the return lines are free Will have to check power to solenoid "new spot" just meant a new thread...... Your suggestion of pressurizing the tank sounds like something to try.... And with no cranking... that should "push" fuel through the pump and lines to the injectors? Lift pump is new.... changed that first to address the original issue, fuel in the crankcase. When that did not fix the leak I knew the seals on the pump shaft needed to be changed out. When I started to bleed the lines, first step was to use the lift pump to push fuel out the filter bleeder, then out of the intake line at the IP.... which it did. Then I tried to push the fuel out of the injector lines... but it did not seem to be getting there...that's when we filled up through the return fitting hole, and then tried to crank it through to the injector connections. I am fairly certain the timing is set correct. Removal... rotated flywheel till pin was in.. checked the pump window and the lines where there... marked the flange with a line and removed. Installed... shaft dot and pump dot where lined up as were the lines in the window. It seems the injector fuel lines can only be routed the correct way ( don't think I have them crossed up) and have them all line up properly... Will get @ it in the AM..... thanks for your thoughts on this...
I love that priming description Hosspuller. T-town, you have to get a good flow of fuel out of the fuel filters with the lift pump while the engine is cranking. Until you do that it will never run.When you tell us that you have achieved that, then we can help you further. One other thing; just because the lift pump is new doesn't mean it is pumping. Did you match it up with new one to verify they are identical ? If it is camshaft driven the lift pump arm must be a perfect match to the old one.
Lift pump was changed out last fall.... 10 hrs or so put on it... so I would think it's a match....cam driven and the one is a JD part. One filter...... and yes the lift pump does push through the filter ( bleeder bolt) and out the intake line @ the IP I will check that line again, open while cranking to show good flow. I picked up an air valve..... will see if I can rig the fuel cap with it to add some pressure to the fuel tank to bleed. But would that not also pressurize the return line in a reverse fashion?.... What am I missing there?
I don't know what you are missing. The return line is of no concern in regards to bleeding the system --- unless it is damaged or somehow not allowing the excess fuel to return to the tank. If you are worried the return line won't allow excess fuel to return to the pressurized tank, unhook it from the tank, put a hose on it and catch the fuel in a bucket. You will have to plug the tank fitting so the tank continues to hold pressure. At least we know you have a known working lift pump.
My comments are based assuming you have a rossa master / stanadyne pump Yes, it would eventually pressurize the whole pump system. therefore... open the check valve port on the pump to atmosphere. plug the return line to tank, while you pressurize tank. I believe you introduced air into the injector lines when you cranked the engine. You didn't fill the actual pump internal passages, with fuel into the relief port. The air in the pump internals that was there from the rebuild is now in the injection lines / injectors. As I understand the diesel systems, that air is acting as a spring, absorbing fuel movement without the injector opening. It might be the cause of engine mis-timing too. The air is delaying the injector opening, so a bit of fuel is getting to the cylinder after the compression stroke. Then, it doesn't get ignited and is pumped out the exhaust
Maybe I missed it, but did you open the bleeders on the injection pump body itself?
Not sure where those bleeders are on the pump itself ???.... and yes it is a rossa master/stanadyne pump. Anyway.... back at it this AM and it seems I was "infected" by some electrical gremlin over the winter...?? Put it "to bed" last fall running and now something is up. Had a starter solenoid ( which would click upon key turn) stay "energized" for a couple seconds then click off (?? not sure of the term) but that would turn off any dash lights.... but for those seconds I could turn it over... then "click" of the solenoid and no starter power. Thing is..... always key to right... push starter button. It seems that I can also go key left, dash lights on.. starter turns with push of starter button. That does not seem to be factory wiring....?? But that's another story that I will have to address first before I get back to the fuel system. Let me thank you all for your thoughts on this...... and I'll update how this pans out.
I missed this in the OP ... ..."Should the other injector lines be connected while you try to bleed one? At the beginning I had the 4 of them hanging there to see when they would start to pulse fuel.... seemed to take a while to get anything. "... You can experience an air lock while trying to bleed the fuel system if all of the injectors are loose at one time while cranking the engine. Loosen the injector lines at the injector, one at a time. Crank the engine till fuel flows bubble free, tighten the line and go to the next line. Advice from here: http://oregonfuelinjection.com/pdf/stanadyne-db-jdb-and-db2-pump-removal-and-installation.pdf :drinkup
OOPS! sorry about that. Disregard that. The electrical issue is a RELAY right? You turn the key, hear the click and everything works, but when you turn the key back off the click is delayed a couple seconds? It's either the relay or the key switch, try exercising it a dozen times and see if anything changes? If no change, then check the key switch terminal continuity (which wires are hot when they're supposed to be).
No ... with the key on.. initial click, power to dash lights and starter will turn.... couple seconds another click and then no power to dash lights/ starter.. all with key on. Turn key off.... then on again and same scenario. Not sure about the part ( relay vs. solenoid). .... Parts check on JDparts shows a solenoid.. In the AM I will be checking with the previous owner about any "rewiring" that might have been done....
...then again, maybe it is a relay.... it is mounted on the cab "firewall". I guess the solenoid is mounted on top of the starter?
Gotcha. Little black box with 2 medium size wires and 2 small wires with one of the small wires grounded? Hook a test lead to the small wire that's not grounded, and see if it has power after the second click, or if the power goes off then the relay itself is functioning and the problem is elsewhere. Relay/solenoid, same difference mostly, solenoid usually means it activates something else besides an electrical contact.
Yup.... only this has had some kinda hack job. Only one one small wire on the relay ( did not trace it yet) one medium size going inside the cab wall.. and ends just inside ( short run) with a strange looking connector... almost a kinda "slip" lug ( maybe a ground??). Other medium lug has old connectors under the nut but no wire. It's got me wondering.!! The "2 way" key has me wondering whats up there. If I turn key counterclock it would energize that relay ( click) and turn on the dash lights... and allow the starter button to work the starter.... and that relay would not " kick out" like it did went key went counterclock..... weird But, the fellow that sold it to me might be able to fill me in some more.... and I'll get back to test some lines this week... ...that relay is available so easily replaced. ..... but the way this is acting has me scatchin my head for sure. ...AND.. I lost my digital manual to the ****** lock virus...long with lots of other files..... but that manual was lacking anyway... not really sure which # manual it was... next time I'll get a good old "in my dirty hand" version. Thanks again...
UPDATE Did get the electrical sorted out... had a relay for nothing, or at least nothing now......and an incorrect connection on my part. Did prime the fuel system and get 'er back to running. I'm doing some cooling system maint.... but prior to the drain, when I first arrived @ shop I started her cold. Took a bit of crankin... bit of fuel smoke(white) then she fired up. The first 30 hrs of ownership( last fall) she always started with just several cranks...... Question is, should one also bleed momentarily each injector line WITH the engine @ idle or slightly higher rpms.... might these lines need a bit more bleeding? or is it a case of if it runs, they ( the lines) are clear? Thanks for your help...