Hi, In the early eighties, we had a couple of Ford trucks converted to run on propane. One was a single axle F900 with a 534cid engine, the other a 880 tandem with a 477engine. Although cheaper to buy than gas, they burned almost twice as much propane. Loaded on gasoline they were lucky to make 3-5mpg. There was a power loss with propane also. Anyone running propane power still or has it pretty much run it's course? Dominion
A couple of local delivery co. in my area used to use propane but it went out a few years ago. Anymore with the gas boom in this area you are starting to see more and more natural gas powered vehicals.
Yair . . . buckfever. That is real interesting. Can you (or anyone) post any details about NG installations, the conversion, the tanks, the refueling stations and how it all works out in the real world. Cheers,
I know Roush Racing makes a conversion for Ford trucks, around here I think it would tough to get it filled. My brother in law drives a hire car in Sydney AUS, and he drives Holdens that are dual fuel. He says he saves 50% over gasoline. Tom FYI- a hire car is what we call a car service or airport limousine in North America
When I first moved to Palm Beach County from Miami in '93 all the local Police, Fire, Public Works and general city fleet were CNG powered. They had their own fueling set-up. I've never seen Propane used to power vehicles but CNG for sure. Martin County, the county North of here is funding a CNG fleet and fueling depot, I hope that works out for them.
Yair . . . SeaMac. Propane is very common on vehicles here. It used to be real cheap but not so much these days. It is also used on forklifts running in cold rooms . . . apparently the exhaust is not so toxic. Very convenient too. To refuel was a matter of swapping out what appeared to be a standard hundred pound bottle . . . I have often wondered though, the bottles laid on their side . . . maybe they were a special build internaly? Cheers.
I know about Propane for forklifts, we've owned those in the past just never seen it used in a vehicle. Makes sense to me although I don't think you would get much range compared to good old petrol or diesel. I'm all for alternative energy, they tell us here -they tell us a lotta things mind you- that we have one of the planets largest reserves of natural gas. Kinda begs the question, okay, why is it again that we're not tapping this vast natural resource? Until someone patents the idea of a hose-up-the-butt-direct-to-fuel-injection, where we can all eat beans and cabbage then fart are way around town, we'll just have to figure on other means...
Company I work for tried it in the 80's , Had our own tank and pump . Think the books showed a 7 to 10% power difference . 361's 391's in f750s and pickups . 1st propane "carbs" where a pain . 2cd gen worked pretty good . That was before the tax man jumped in . With the road use tax it wasn't near as sweet a deal . As trucks were cycled the propane set ups were left off . These were a dual fuel and all the trucks were carburated at that time . If you switched back and forth it was fine but when a truck was run on propane for a month or so the carb gaskets dried out . I rebuilt carbs left and right for a while .
We are seeing news stories around here (Pacific Coast) about CNG he is an interesting link... http://www.kenworth.com/news/news-r...-advice-on-specing-for-natural-gas-power.aspx
CNG is compressed natural gas, propane is not the same, it is captured when oil is refined, sometimes refereed to as Petroleum gas.
Yes I know, thank you though...
Around here Waste Management just bought a hole bunch of new local gabage trucks and they all are run on CNG. Also they are peterbuilt cabovers.
In California (home of heavy regulation) Waste management is also running CNG. They were offered public funding to convert over. My truck (1997 Freightlinner) will have to be retired by 2021 and a filter installed by 2016 to keep it compliant. I have looked into going CNG myself. I know you are talking gas motors. My diesel will have to have a major overhaul. My heads will have to have sparkplugs drilled and installed. Also the piston rings will have to be changed so the compression isn't as high. Some other things including a new injector pump and of course fuel tanks make this project seem like alot of work. I also heard my power output will diminish over 10%.
Im thinking of seriously investing in the consumer side of natural gas. They are talking $1.30 a gal (diesel equivalent gal) for natural gas by this time next year. Westport innovations is one of the company's im eying. Im also looking for company's that are developing home use natural gas compressors to fill your CNG tank while you sleep. With the complete over abundance and proliferation of natural gas development in this country the supply is HUGE but the demand hasn't nearly risen at the same rate
Historically, natural gas has not been very reliable in larger trucks. Also, I think it depends on how far you get from the cities where there is any support for when the specialized stuff breaks. Billy Bob's mobile service may not be able to patch you up good enough to get back to the barn like they could with a diesel. Technology has improved, though. It does sound reasonable with the new found gas reserves.
Have you ever tried to get a propane powered truck fixed in a one horse town in new Mexico? Its about he same. I used to be diesel or death, but after looking under the hoods of new diesel pickups and heavy trucks the last 10 years, I think the complexity of a natural gas system is NOTHING compared to the systems and problems with 03 and newer diesel powered vehicles. with the CNG spark ignited vehicles they are usually dual fuel. so if the CNG system starts acting up you just switch over to the good ole 87 octane. The problem of the old duel fuel systems were that the carbs dried up and the fuel went bad, that dosent seem to be as much of a concern to the modern relatively high pressure EFI system. I completely agree with the your distance from major cities factor for CNG powered trucks. but with time i think the technology to compress the natural gas will be safer and more efficient to the point you can fuel CNG vehicles at your own home.
The white medium duty Kenworth pulling the mini-backhoe in that press release is one in Alagasco's fleet, our local natural gas utility. I saw one in the field a few months back but I didn't pay much attention to it at the time however I do remember it was very quiet.
The problem with running propane and petrol is that they require different distributor settings because of the difference in octane rating. Modern cars do not suffer this because the system senses engine knock and adjusts the timing.