Gentlemen, Need help deciding what to do. (FYI: I have searched this site for previous information and advice, but am still a little confused, so forgive me if this subject has been beaten to death). We are located in south MS, and run a small dirt contracting/land clearing business. Our 2 main pieces of equipment are a JD 650H Dozer (roughly 21,000 lbs) and a JD 160LC Excavator (roughly 40,000 lbs). Currently, we hire out a local hauler to move the equipment from site to site. But as you all know it is costly and causes un-profitable downtime to get them moved from site to site. Plus, having to factor in paying for transportation cost when bidding a job sometimes is the difference in getting awarded the job or not. This post only concerns hauling the Dozer, as we would like to be able to run and gun between jobs with the Dozer. With the Excavator, we will continue to hire out the hauling. We currently have a 2005 F-350 Dually 4x4 Diesel Crew Cab Long Bed and a 33' (28'+5') Bourg Brand HD GooseNeck Trailer with Tandem Dual 10,000 lb axles with electric brakes. I wont quote and list all of the GVWR's etc. etc., because I believe the F-350 is a well known truck as is a GooseNeck Trailer and both specs have been mentioned many times in the previous post. We just want opinions on whether or not any of you experienced Truck Drivers would use this rig combination to move the Dozer around? Is it too much weight? More specifically, we have no problem replacing the GooseNeck to a heavier capacity GooseNeck Trailer if the general consensus is our current GooseNeck is not heavy enough. Our main question is, is the F-350 enough Truck for the job? Please keep in mind we are local only and only go about 100 miles max in any direction and generally on back roads, and NO interstate travel. We would really appreciate any and all advice or opinions. We have a competitor who is hauling the exact same Dozer with a Flatbed F-350 Single Cab Dually and same capacity Gooseneck Trailer. He says it hauls it with no problems, but I am not sure I trust his words!! And I firmly believe two wrongs don't make a right!!! Hope to hear back soon. Thanks.
DM, I've hauled my 17,000 dozer with an F350 all over the west coast with no problems. Of course I'm driving defensive, avoid sharp turns and sudden stops if possible. Having GOOD consistant trailer brakes can help keep you out of trouble. But if you ever run into someone and hurt or kill them and your overweight your ass is grass! You Attorney fees will far exceed the expense of hiring a local trucker. Her in California when we take the back roads the illegals aliens are terrible about pulling out in front of you. That's why I keep my trailer brakes in good shape but its a gamble. Ya you can save a few hundred hot shotting it your self but if you run into someone you'll be in the hole BIG TIME!
Thanks Mike. I know what you mean about "Illegal Aliens"!!! We don't have a problem here with them, just another "species" that thinks the same way!! I agree 100% about taking it easy. Currently the Truck/GooseNeck rig is used to haul farm equipment, as in a JD 7400 Tractor/Loader with implements. With that load we always take it easy and approach unfamiliar areas cautiously. Thanks for your advice.
I have a f-450 flatbed and a 20,000 lbs hudsen gooseneck. The most I have hauled is about 22,000 lbs and to be honest it was a little scary. Now the truck moved it ok but it just did not seem very happy. I could also be biased because i'm more used to move equipment with a lowboy tracktor. I would put the dozer behind it and see how it handels on a short hall. If it feels hinky at all going easy on a close move I wouldn't chance it on a long hall.
Buckfever, that is basically what I was thinking I would do. My guess is we will not be happy with it as is. Probably will be upgrading. HOWEVER, if upgrade it is, then we will just go up enough to handle the 160 Excavator as well. No need going half way!!! Thanks.
DM, keep in mind your crew cab will detract from the towing capacity because you're already hauling a couple extra doors and a sofa to go with them.
Keep in mind, it is 21,000 lbs of dozer, PLUS 6,000 lbs of trailer. Can you tow 27,000 lbs behind an F-350? Maybe, IF everything works right (thats a very big "if", on purpose).Can you do it legally and safely, no. Keep in mind, if you are going 35 mph and step on the brakes, and a wire connection fails, or a plug comes unplugged, or is dirty, etc. You are going to have a wreck. There is no way 8,000 lbs of truck is going to control 27,000 lbs in a panic situation. If you have to steer violently around something, your trailer is probably not going to change direction, it's just going to push your truck sideways into what ever is in front of you.
Mitch, you must have been tapped into my nightmare dream I had last night!!! Thanks.
Ya gotta ask yourself, Do I feel lucky?
Yes. I have towed about 17,000# payload before and that was on local roads that have no traffic. I now have a 21,000# 410J and the thought hasn't even crossed my mind to try and haul that with a pickup and gooseneck. Now I "might" consider it if it were a dual tridem gooseneck, but only locally running 50mph max. You running up to 100 miles out I would not. With all that saying my "suggestion" (and it is only a suggestion) get a big truck and lowboy trailer and be done with it. I do promise you will have less headache down the road.
I use an F550 for towing goosenecks. I wouldn't shy from towing a 30klbs gross heavy spec goose. Tandem 12klb axles, the balance on the pin. My 550 is 8500lbs, 20k gross. The ball is rated to 7500lbs of pin weight. If I was making a habit of it, I would move the ball a foot forward or so for more weight transfer to the front axle.
Post #2 from Mike sums it up best, in my opinion. Can you? Yes. Are you in deep trouble if things go wrong? More than you can imagine. That said, I have a friend who has regularly hauled 20K to 24K payloads on a Big Tex gooseneck behing a D0dge 3500. He has run near and far, and up and down some pretty steep hills as well. The truck will do it, but you are always one small mistake away from a disaster.
Legally, your combination is NOT enough. More specifically your GCWR, which for a new 2013 F-350 is 30,000lbs. As most everyone here has said already, you can do it, but your one mishap away from disaster financially and possibly physically. Your combination gross will probably be around 34,500lbs and that is being VERY conservative. Your best bet seems to be an upgrade to a semi so you can move both pieces of equipment (separately) and be worry free about weight legalities.
DM22 I would never use the rig you use for the hauling you are doing, I think you are way undersized. You are one step away from a major disaster and a lawsuit to boot. JMO
I recently upgraded to a international 4700LP from a 2005 dodge ram 3500 SRW and I dont think I would ever go back except for not having 4wd in these pa winters! Except for the fuel mileage, you can hardly tell the trailer is even behind you until you hit a hill lol. You can probably find a used single axle international to pull a heavy GN and be fine with it. Even a single axle semi with air brakes would not be that expensive to buy outright.
When I bought my excavator I moved up from a single axle international 4700 towing a 20 ton double tandem to a semi-lowboy combination. During hard braking my dozer (D5G) on the double tandem used to push the truck and I really had to stand on the brakes to stop. I know I would not have wanted to be driving a one ton truck in those situations. Lots of ambulance chasers just waiting for someone to sue. Not sure, but if you are loaded over your max GWVR, I wonder if your insurance carrier would try to deny coverage in case of an accident. No way I'd drive 100 miles towing a dozer with an F350....I dread 50 miles in the lowboy dodging all the people who pull out in front of you or get impatient and pass you only to slam on the brakes to make a turn.
I personally wouldn't use that truck for anything more than a few miles from town..I'm sure it will work,but the 05 6.0 isn't exactly the most reliable pulling truck when pushed hard....to have reliability at that gvwr I feel you'd need an egr delete,and a good going over by a reputable shop,checking the head gaskets and degas bottle for pressurization.If the head gaskets aren't perfect,they won't last long pulling that weight,head studds,and new gaskets and it'd be ready for anything.I am pretty sure the only 1 ton rated to tow that kind of load from the factory is a new 2013 dodge 3500 dually with the aisin auto and 385/850 6.7 cummins.These trucks are rated for a 30000 lb trailer and 37500 gvwr...I think you'd be DOT legal with the F350 as long as your trailer was rated for the load ,your load is distributed so the truck isn't overloaded on the rear axle, and none of your axles are overweight...
To ALL that responded!!! Thanks very much for your very wise and smart comments. I have actually awaken from this "Dream" I was in. The dream was to hopefully save some money!! Rest assured, we WILL NOT use this rig to haul the Dozer. Not worth the risk. And we will be upgrading to a suitable rig to haul both Dozer and Excavator. When that time comes, we will be back with many questions as what is best to get!! I know just enough about the Tractor part of the rig to not know enough.
I've done more than a fair amount of hauling with everything from pickups to peterbuilts. IMO you are asking too much of your truck to haul that dozer safely. It is not a question of if, but when, you will not be able to stop in time. The dozer will be driving the truck. It is not a comfortable feeling. Be safe and upgrade.
Have you thought about a tandem axle dump truck with an air braked tag? A 25 ton tag will carry both of your pieces of equipment without any issues and the dump may be more useful than a tractor and lowboy.
This looks bad. It looks like you have a really bad day on this.
When you go for an upgrade that will allow the excavator you'll learn some valuable lessons on the cost of owning a truck and trailer. Just about the time you think you've justified the expense it'll be time to spend another $5k on tires or license and insurance or a reman trans or rearend or engine or DOT audit.
Go with a tandem axle dump, and a 48k pound tag, be sure to get a high hp tandem, something in the 400's min. I move my 550g deere behind a 275hp single axle dump on a 20 ton air brake tag and things get iffy on a steep gravel downhill. And I would not haul a 160 at all.
That's what he'll need, but a 48k tag won't even come close. Figure 40,000 for the hoe, 10,000 for the trailer (around here you need three axles to haul that machine) and the truck will be more than 20,000 lbs. Right off the top you need to pay a $500 HVUT to the feds. Add state license and however you pay for your weight per mile fee.
48k pounders work, and work well. So your machine is say a deere 160 g, operating weight is 39,685. You have a towmaster t-40 gvwr 48,800, operating weight 8,800 pounds. so trailer + excavator = 48,485. Your going to say, wow that's cutting it close. But remember your 10% min. tongue weight of 4k pounds. Now your trailer only scales 44,485. Ok Now we are driving a kw t800 empty weight of 26k, its tagged for 80k. 48,485 + 26k = 74,485. Your truck scales at 30k w/ tongue weight and the trailer at 45k, legal load. Except for maybe the bridge weight calculations...
Do they have any rule that states that the trailer must not be heavier than the towing vehicle over there like they do here in Australia?
Stumpjumper, I see we were talking about two different things. When you said 48k tag, I was thinking the "tag" you were talking was the weight card. (for tax and license purposes) BTW, that trailer wouldn't be legal here with that load. They let you guys back east carry a lot of weight.
plantfitter, no not to my knowledge. The only thing ive seen similar to that are the regulation concerning un-braked trailers, and they have to be under 2500 lbs. Wilko, out here that's what everyone moves a 160 w/ unless they happen to have a dedicated semi & lowbed. There is even a guy with a 50k pound triple axle, dual tire rig, pulled by a high hp pete triaxle dump that moves a Daewoo 180 around legally, no permit.
Here you're only allowed 34,000 on a pair of axles. You guys haul loads that we'd get shot hauling. Okay, maybe not shot, but there was a guy a while back who got a $44,000 overweight ticket.
This is why we have D.O.T. Pj
If you run low miles - less than 5000/yr - I think, you are exempted from HVUT. Also, I think OR, NM and KY are the only states that have funky fuel tax laws.
i haul around my 310sj with my gooseneck and f350 and honestly im saving up for a bigger truck yes the f350 can haul it and yes the triple axle brakes do help allot but the wear and tear on the truck is significant. and i have had a couple close calls making me wish i would of fixed my old dump truck instead of selling it
That's definitely true in VA.
Hey Redneclracin. What r the details of your Int 4700 ie motor and tranny setup? Would you change anything? I still looking at options for hauling fill/materials and skidsteer and mini.... thxs
I have a truck for that! http://www.386motorsports.com/index.htm
Okay...so what r the details /spec? Need to haul things/stuff, that weight a lot more than few bikes.
The Sportchassis in the picture is a RHA-350, it has 1024ftlb of torque and is really comfortable towing between 22k-24k lbs. it's big brother, the RHA-450 has over 1600ftlb of torque and is good for up to 40k lbs. The best part about these trucks is the comfortable ride home after a long day of work.