I just saw a picture on here of a JD dozer with a PTO. What is the history of PTOs being on dozers? Did Cat ever make them?
Rotary Cutters Does anyone know of a rotary cutter being used behind a dozer?
You see them being offered with the Chinese imported small dozers. I seem to recall that a video clip of one in use on the internet someplace.
Why don't you see more/any forestry heads on dozer's ? I 'am not trying to high jack this thread. Is my question relevant?
the cable units and winches which you see on Cats are run from PTO's. They just aren't external like you see on the Deeres.
That little antique Deere in Ak roadrunner's thread is based on a wheel tractor, before JD made dedicated crawlers, so it's a little different; but many of the early 450s, at least, had PTOs. There is a guy here who built a business on a 450 w/ a heavy 6' bush hog. His machine had a factory PTO and 3 pt. hitch.
I would like to try this out one day - http://www.deltamp.com/land/brochures/DT953 BROCHURE.pdf
I've seen them in the Cat spec sheets but exactly how many Ag Spec crawlers in USA have 540 or 1000rpm PTOs for driving implements.....is it something you see a lot of or not? As far as I can make out from the odd picture on a Cat the PTO unit sits up on the r.h. side of the rear housing - i mean slightly upwards and to the right of the output shaft from the rear axle which would drive the winch but in one housing
does look like fun, CM
an ag spec cat crawler is like hen's teeth here
In UK there's a few around, latterly (later D4D series) they were equipped with 3 pt hitch mostly for ploughing and the odd one had a PTO unit probably for driving a power-harrow.
Yeah, I've read about them, wish my D4e was setup that way. They still make "D4e Super Rural" tractors, but I don't think they sold them in the US.
This is a fairly typical Ag (S.A.) set up on a D4E sold in the UK market not sure why the pic aint showing....but its behind this link
Thanks for the responses. The reason for my interest is that I have a farm with some terrain that I use for pasture but is too rough and steep for me to feel comfortable using a wheeled tractor and rotary cutter. I have been over it with my Cat D3G and feel comfortable although I am careful. If I pull a heavy rotary cutter with my dozer, I would be "moving my bowels in high cotton".
Thanks for the responses. The reason for my interest is that I have a farm with some terrain that I use for pasture but is too rough and steep for me to feel comfortable using a wheeled tractor and rotary cutter. I have been over it with my Cat D3G and feel comfortable although I am careful. If I could pull a heavy rotary cutter with my dozer, my problems maintaining good pasture would be solved.
I've been running a 6-ft rotary mower (with overload and overspeed clutch) behind my 7U-D4 for about 20-years. Very handy on hilly terrain that was down right scarry with a wheel tractor.
I know Case made a PTO for their superK loaders, (not backhoe equipped) that was really just a hydraulic motor with a 6-spline output shaft, and I'm sure others did too. If you got ahold of 1 of them, it would be a simple adaptation. Or, maybe just mount a hyd. motor right on the cutter gearbox?
Can you get enough aux. oil flow out of a D3G? You might be able to pull a hydraulic powered cutter..
Hey, my temporarily Costa Rican friend, is it possible, and would it be appropriate to merge this thread with the one about PTOs on dozers? We same to be having half this conversation in each thread.
Good idea. Done! Just to clear up any future confusion - when you merge threads the posts are put in chronological order. In the future let's keep the same topic in just one thread, since it keeps the board cleaner and more importantly gives the author a better chance of other members commenting. Thanks, CM
Thanks for merging the threads. There are hydraulic powered cutters for skid steers. Are there drawbar pulled hydraulic powered cutters available for the Cat D3G? Old Magnet, what kind of mower are you pulling?
It's a heavy duty Gearmore rotary mower/cutter that I converted from 3-pt mount to drawbar pull using the original style Cat pto. Also can be driven with hyd. motor but takes pretty good flow to operate it.
Old Magnet, thank you.
I know you could get a PTO on the old Oliver crawlers. I did see a hydro ax head on a dozer . I think it was a 750 or 850. It looked like the head was ran off the dozers hydraulics. looked like a nice set up for extrem mowing.
It should involve just a hitch modification (if any) to hook up to the D3 drawbar. I think the bigger question is how to get the oil to it. This would be a question for our mechanical members if the standard 3rd valve for a ripper or winch would be enough flow for a mower.:beatsme
My JD 450b Has a po shaft. One thing to remeber is that the pto speed is 1000 rpm instead of the normal 540
When I looked into hydraulic drive for my mower I figured it needed about 25 hydraulic hp and required 20 gpm at 2500 psi. From what I could find for specs the D3G has 16 gpm @ 2900 psi, earlier D3's about 15 gpm so may be close. Difference is though the Dozer rated pumps are rated for intermediate service like operating cylinders, not continuous motor loads.
Here's something near home for sale here in OZ looks like what you want. http://www.constructionsales.com.au...&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=226&__sid=12F262ED8B59
Don't forget the amish solution. Put a 40 hp motor on the mower and pull it with whatever you want. One used to be able to find 40 & 50 hp international harvester power units that would output 540 rpm pto power without too much looking for next to nothing. I know gas powered isnt your first choice, but how many hours a year will it get? Then again you can find diesel units out there too.
If its like you describe you'd be better to get one of those tracked-skidsteers with the front mounted scrub cutter. A 2 metre flail cutter will absorb 70 PTO hp to drive it (thats out the back of a tractor PTO) in heavy going and at the moment you're looking at a hydraulic drive which is inefficient anyway and generate a lot of heat. Moreover there's no 3 pt linkage on your machine and if its as steep and as rough as you seem to suggest trailed won't be much capture. Can't you clear it with the blade first to make it passable with a tractor? Otherwise I was looking in an old D4D parts book and the 1000rpm PTO group is actually listed as a part number.
The earlier ASV Posi-Trac models had a PTO on them. These would be the ones made in the mid 90's. I forget if it was the MD70 or the 4810, but one or the other had a PTO. This would be a more current option for a PTO. The best bet would be to get a newer model High Flow skid steer and a Davco cutter. Check out my videos on youtube for reference: http://www.youtube.com/user/CAROLINACLEARING
Dirtroad is on the pulse, thats the kind of thing.....the chopper, not the snake
PTO & 3 Point on Cat D3B For your info. I found this D3B with a LINDEX Company Model 300 1,000 rpm PTO and 3 point hitch, Category 3/4n. Friends told me about the Brown Mfg 2000 Series Tree Cutters. After much searching and helpful info from forums, I be mowing the nasty places ( Southern Ohio ) that my M96 Kubota should not go with a regular bush hog. The Brown is actually too heavy for the little D3. I'll try water filler drums for front weight. All in all this is a doable combo. I still need help finding parts for the LINDEX. They went out of biz in 1991. Anyone that has a set of owners manuals for the 3 point or gearbox, please let me know. I will have rebuilt Brown cutters available as time goes on. Best Regards, Jim [email protected]
A number of 50's - 70's crawler tractors were fitted with optional three point linkage and pto, A direct pto driven slasher or mulcher would be preferable to a hydraulic drive unit as with continuous use the hydraulic option requires the dissipation of a substantial amount of heat ( with the use of an oil cooler etc ) this heat is wasted power which would be a compounding problem the heavier the machine is loaded.
Please post some pics of your setup after a few more posts.
Cat with PTO 3point and mower I have tried to post pictures twice. Admin will have to fix it so I can. You can see the Brown Tree Cutter in action on Brown Mfg website, click on their video. NEAT!
komatsu d 21's have ptos and three point hitches for different attachments
I know a guy who had a jd 450 with a 3pt hitch and pto. He hooked a brushog to it and said it was the best land clearer at the time. He said if you came up to a tree a little to big to just run over you just lift the mower and backup. Once you make contact with the tree pull back both steer levers and let her grind away. He also said the where great in areas where theres lots of thorn trees. No flats.
chief Jim, you have to make 3 posts, log out and back in, then the system will let you post pics and start threads. Eric12, if you have a D21 w/ a 3PH and PTO, please provide pics and as much info as possible. There is a lot of interest in this thread on setting them up that way. HeavyEquipmentForums
Cat D3B PTO 3 point and Brown tree Cutter HOT DOG! This is my number 3 post. I'll be back. Man! I can't wait to see if Komatsu has bigger ones like a 39 or 42 with PTo ,and 1000PTO. I have never seen one.
D3B PTO & 3 point with Brown Tree Cutter The idea of getting the hillsides cleared without tearing up our wheeled tractors and no flats is a sweet deal. I still need to find a LINDEX model 305 gearbox. Those are 540 rpm and I have some other attachments for that. Stump grinder, auger, regular bush hogs. Hope these pics come through OK. The action shots whith that thing on it's back legs will have to wait for another day folks.
I like that 3 ph rig, is the PTO driven hydraulicly?
Nope, that is the genuine strait from the engine shaft. Passes through the differential and into the pinion gear at the top of the PTO gearbox. Small pinion drives a output gear with output shaft sticking out the rear below centerline. I did find out that if you put the cutter in soft dirt, it can stall the engine to stop. We had asperations of hydro drive, but the whole hi flow deal is specialized and 30 gpm is the low end. Well, if cooling requires ten more gallons than gpm, your looking at a aux fluid can of 40 plus gallons. Not practical. I have rented forestry mulchers( love them) and the best Cat all terrain loaders, hydro bush hogs suck. They just don't have the guts for haRD CUTTING. bOG DOWN IN THICK STUFF. I do intend to add a couple remote circuits for attachments, but that will have to wait for winter shop work.
nice, is the dozer powershift, or direct drive?
What a nice setup! Is the cutter designed to back into larger stuff by pushing in on the guards? I'll bet that cutter has a lot of inertia.
Mitch & Old... I wish it was direct, the powershift is a bit too fast at times even in 1st, so I am on the stupid T handle to balance RPM a lot. You are right on the money about inertia. tha is the secret behind the Brown. The blade bar is 625 pounds, with the four blades,over 700. With 1000 from the dozer the bar should be going over 800 mph. Anyway, the blades arfe ment to be sharp like a good wood chisel, not dull like a regular bush hog. Oh, KENTUCKY GUY, I have been talking to a fellow near Long Beach, Califonia. He used to own three of these D3s with the LINDEX box and lift. Sold them but may be able to relocate. Point is, I looked for a dozer with 3 pt n PTO for many years. God was good and dropped this one on me only 45 miles from home. We are in steep hills and cow calf is all about grass. I'll be glad to assist. Thanks you all for your interest. Now, spread the word and find them old LINDEX PTO boxes, PLEASE
Oops, Sorry Old, Yes, the pressure from the springs puts the fall away from you. Works!
Inyati13 I am near Ashland. You are welcome to visit and check this rig out. I feel your pain about the steep roughs. Jim
Would like to do that. How do I find you?
That's an awesome setup. The only problem that I can invision is the fact that most gas and oil pipeline companies prohibit the use of steel tracked equipment on their ROW's. Apparently they worry that the vibration could cause damage to the pipelines. Other than that, you've got yourself an awesome machine.
email me direct and I'll give you my phone number [email protected]
Thanks dirt. We don't have any pipelines on either farm. This is strictly for personal use. You have the beautiful full caged and belly panned tractor! Asplund uses them for ROW with the Browns dragging behind with no tail wheel. Just check chains. I know a guy who will buy all the NH 110s he can get his hands on. Drop me a line if you have some well used, stickshift models. [email protected] I wanted to get some tractor tires filled with the Galaxy Super Soft foam but choked on the price. wooo eeeee! What foam do you use?
used to work on a D9H fairly regularly and that had provision for a PTO in the same configuration as the little girl with the 3 point linkage
D4 PTO part numbers? Hey Richard, could you post drawings or pages from your D4D manual showing the PTO and part numbers? I know there has to be an economical way to get a PTO and 3 point together for Cats larger than my little D3B, just need to identify the OTS ( off the shelf) parts to do it. Thank you, Jim
D4D pto parts I bet that was 1,000 rpm also?
Easiest would be a direct drive tractor, say D4D...then all you need is to bolt up the Cat pto gear box with choice of either 540 or 1000 rpm or there is a combo unit with both. Gets kinda messy with powershift. Then you need the transmission group set up for shifting transfer gear pto drive to be able to disconnect. Not something very desirable to do on a retrofit basis. Also need to select whether the pto is for winch drive or other. I'm a little fuzzy on drive rpms, I believe winch drive is around 1000 rpm but not sure whether the ag pto is 540 or 1000 rpm....anybody know?
Jim, O.M., These are the pages I have from the D4 78A parts book, experts please correct me here, but to the best of my knowledge the engine speed on the early models was only 2000rpm? – well, less than the later models which makes me think there may be something in the PTO gearing to “up” it a little to maintain the speed. Perhaps a later model parts book will throw up something else with the gearing. The “540” page shows 525 or 678 rpm depending on whether it turns in the same direction as the engine but also states its for drawbar machines…..not much cop for a mounted flail/rotary cutter. On the 1000rpm page there is mention of 1M9511 hitch, I am guessing this maybe the 3 pt hitch???
Richard, these are GREAT prints. Old, you are correct, there is a two speed box 540 & 1000. I was talking to a guy in Oregon. Evidently he is the sole producer for Dozer pto gearboxs here in the US. $20K for pto & 3 point. Anyway. Since I have no experience on a direct drive, does that just mean the dozer is a standard vs automatic transmission? And the clutches are hand lever operated? I got in a situation yesterday where the trees close together, slope is steep and loam is soft.Had to back into trees with rpm max, yet try to inch into the cut. I got it done but it was jerky and not smooth like i would want. Jogging instead of slow continuous. Would a direct allow this by feathering the clutches?? Are the ptos from Cat still available? My dealer is ignorant about them. You see, I am having fantasies about transplanting my 3point onto a new joystick machine, maybe. The ease of operation with the hydrostat drives, joystick/buttons and hydro motors on the ATLs and forestry mulcher will surely spoil you!
Good stuff there Richard. Anybody know more about powershift pto's? Jim, you are right on direct drive operation....but, no feathering the clutch allowed, they are mean't to be either in or out. Cat had the 1000/540 dual speed available at one time, in either an early or late version. Don't know about current availability but I kind of doubt it. You'd have to find used. Hub City does make a speed reducer/increaser @ about $3K but you still have to have the pto drive. Hope you don't have any really drastic terrain, as in cliffs, or that big "gyro" and "mass" can take you right over the side while maneuvering. On the 1M9511 hitch assy number, I believe that refers to the added extension on the drawbar to clear the low mounted pto shafts.
Good advice Old. HA! If you only knew what a professional coward I am... I am NOT a good operator and due to never wanting to abuse and break my stuff, I am very careful. Oh, I count myself as important stuff, too. The times I have been scratching around on rock , on slopes just scares the be gs out of me. Watched a guy slide about 75 yards upside down with a D9. ( He said it was the ONLY time he had ever put his lap belt on). Pipeline job over a mountain in WV. Kinda left me with a lasting impression. I really tip my hat to you real dozer guys!! I talked with the Hub City folks last year. Intersting gearbox designs. It is raining here so I think I'll try the Komatsu guys. Keep that good info coming. I bet some smart folks already have this figuredout!