We are pulling the D330 engine in our D4D 78A6909 parts machine that I got last year to see what is wrong with it, hoping to resurrect this machine if we can. It is knocking on one cylinder & we suspect it is a connecting rod problem. It stil runs as we loaded it at the sellers place under its own power, nursing it along at a low idle. Another hour or so in the morning & we should have it out. We plan to pull the oil pan off & see what we find. The machine came with a winch that the seller had pulled off before I bought it. We will remount it if this project is a success.
Does it have oil pressure? Could be nothing more than a leaky injector, have you isolated it by cracking the injector lines one at a time while it's running? If you just about have it out, at least you'll be able to check bearing/crank wear, I'm crossing my finegrs you don't find anything wrong with the crank or rods
Yep a bad injector nozzle can knock and sound terrible, you could have cut the oil filter apart too, a rod bearing failure would show in the filter.
The way it sounds I can't imagine anything other than serious problem like a bearing. I think the piston was hitting the top of the head or a valve the way it sounded when we last had it running a few months back. It is almost ready to lift out now with everything unhooked.
How can a leaky injector make it sound like that? I never thought of that at all......sounded like metal hammering on metal & got a lot louder when it revved up a bit.
YOU must checks for leaky injectors as they sound just like a big end and are usually easy to fix - as said!!! Just loosen the outlet bajos on the pump one by one and see if the noise goes away.
Yair . . . Metalman Please keep us informed and I hope it all turns out well. I guess it's a human trait to always think on the dark side but, I must say, although I have seen some catastrophic failures, many times it's some thing simple and, as the fellers have mentioned cracking injector lines and checking filters for metal are two low cost diagnostic procedures that are often underrated. Cheers.
A leaky injector puts fuel in the cylinder before it's supposed to, it creates a detonation while the piston is still well on the backside of top center so in essence most of the power in the explosion is trying to stop the piston from going up and over. Like a knock in a gas engine where a hot spot is igniting the gas/air mixture before the spark plug fires. First time I ran across it, I finished assembling and installing a Perkins 4 cyl for a Bobcat skid steer, short block I think, and when we lit it, it was hammering EXACTLY like a rod knocking... called the local Perkins guru and he told me to try isolating it by loosening injector lines. Found the offending cylinder, swapped the injector with another one from two doors down and the knock went with it. One reman injector, half a degree timing change and it ran like a Swiss watch. You may well have a spun bearing, or bad wristpin or broken piston, you will know soon enough.
Thanks for the comments guys. Perhaps from what has been said we can get her running where she sits for a bit & try that bit of diagnostic work by cracking the injector lines, even though most everything has been unhooked & we are about ready to lift. Stay tuned.
Is it safe to assume at this point that we have something major going on inside? Most of the pleats inside the filter produce similar results with the magnet. Anything else to check before we pull the engine?
Yair . . . Dunno Metalman55 . That's a shame. As you say, it looks significant but I am surprised it's all magnetic. It's the sort off stuff I expect to see if (say) a gudgeon pin starts floating and scoring op a bore . . . take no notice of me though I have no clue about those little engines. I am sure one of the resident gurus will chime in with where to go from here. Cheers.
Tony & I got it out & on the ground. Hopefully next week we find out what kind of damage we find.
Shiny bits of metal in the filter like that is more typical of a failed pump or gears. What did this engine have for oil pressure?
What ever the cause of the fuzzy stuff I kind of doubt that it could have been fixed without a complete tear down. Will be very interested in seeing what you find. This is a 4 cylinder with the balance shaft in the bottom I believe, could be there, hope it's not too bad.
Well now you know ya gotta tear it down.
We only ran this unit a few minutes when we bought and loaded it on the lowboy & I seem to remember looking at the gauge when it started & it had good pressure then.
Curious as to what you found
We haven't been able to get too it yet. Hope to this week. Will post what we find.
We pulled the oil pan off this morning & this is what we found. As you can see there is about 3/16" play where the connecting rod is bolted to the crank. Anyone think there is a chance if we take the crank out that we can get it spray welded & re ground, or better to look for another crank somewhere if they are even available. I can buy another D330 with a turbo on it for about $4,000, currently in a Dominion Crane I believe, that the owner is swapping for a 4-71 Detroit I think he said. If this one is fixable I would like to do it.......... https://youtu.be/KdIVi35jgCI
A few more pics of the D330 Engine & what we found inside. None of the screens had debris in them, but did find chunks of the bearing here n there.
What exactly did the crank look like once the rod was removed..? You're talking about metal spraying and regrind, but wouldn't a simple grind undersize do the job..?
We didn't get that far yet, only got the pan off to inspect. Any idea how much undersize we could go on a regrind for a crank of this size & what may be available for undersize connecting rod bearings from Cat? Have not contacted Cat yet. Found chunks of the bearing in the pan.
I seem to remember fifty thou being the limit, but that might have been the mains..... CAT reman maybe?
Got the head off & see from the rod bearing failure where one valve was 'just slightly' touching the top of the piston, but does not look too bad. Should have the crank out tomorrow & will know more.
We got the crank out & there is substantial damage to one connecting rod journal, with measurements being 3.00" on the good ones & on the bad one 2.990" one way & 2.962" on the side that got hammered when the bearing failed, making it egg shaped. If we opt to try to repair the crank, anyone know if -.040 bearings are likely available, doing a regrind on the D330?
From what I can see both main & rod bearings are available only in 010", 020", & 030" undersize. Maybe you are in metal spraying territory after all.
The good news is it doesn't look blued, I've been told that if they look blued from heat it's scrap.
Here is a look at the problem connecting rod where we lost the bearing, as you can see the cap is a darker color when compared to the good one on the left & the bolts are sort of bluish as well...... Found someone who can spray chrome & then re-grind. He recommends staying .020 under on the bad one to minimize the thickness of the chrome.
I think that dark rod should really be replaced. I hope you were planning on that. Spray chrome..? Never heard of it. Arc spray, metal spray, HVOF yes, but never spray chrome.
Yes, we are planning to replace the rod, cap & all of both main & rod bearings on the crank.
The Crank will most probably be cracked or bent as its knocked it self all to Hell, the cracks run across the pin not around the pin if you fancy looking, grinding of cranks is realy to remove wear issues not for sorting damage like this, the rod is scrap and not worth spending money on, your oil pump will need looking at as well as any other bit that spins around inside the yellow paint. tctractors
Sent the crank out to a regrind shop who did a magniflux test on it & it has some hair line cracks on the bad journal, so we will forget the repair on that crank. We are trying to locate a used crank, but with the overall cost of a used crank, all new rod & main bearings, possible sleeves (don't know about sleeves yet), rings, new connecting rod & all new gaskets, it may not be feasible to repair..............
Metalman, I am very sorry that things have gone a bit t1ts up on the crankshaft, the 330 engine is a super well built engine that realy sounds like a CAT should, I hope something turns up for you to get things back in focus on the D4, usualy this involves chasing around areas some distance off then finding the lump you need within just a few miles of your yard, sadly in the U.K. this engine is not the tricky thing to find in the complete lump, so might I wish you Good Luck in finding the bits you need and getting the tractor back together. tctractors
Try offroadequipment.com for a reasonable aftermarket parts price to repair that engine.
Ok, thanks Nitelite, I sent them off a message.
I an effort to locate another used D330 engine to replace the engine with the bad crank, I ran an add in an online trader & someone from about 200 miles away responded. The numbers that they gave me over the phone on the used engine are Model# D330A, Ser # 56B1895, they said taken out of a standby generator, only 900 hrs on the meter. Can anyone help me with whether this could be adapted to fit my D4D 78A 6909 Dozer? See the photo from the plate on the bad motor we took removed It says type D. Would the D be for dozer application?
The 56B1895 engine is turbocharged and aftercooled and puts out about 100 hp at 1800 rpm. The 78A6909 is normally aspirated and puts out about 65 hp at 1680 rpm I believe the basic block and crank (4.5 bore x 5.5 stroke) is the same but most all the bolt on's are different and would have to be swapped. Type "D" is diesel.
Do you think such a change over is feasible, or better to look for a closer match?
If your looking to do a complete engine change over I'd look for a closer match.
However depending on the price a 900-hour long block (block, crank, rods/pistons, cyl. head) might be a really good deal to hang all your engine accesories on to. Only you can answer that question. It won't be a simple drop in, but it could get you a lot of bang for your buck.
I had thought of the attractive advantage of having a 900 hr engine long block too. Price is reasonable for it as well, but it is a 3.5 hr drive to look at it. From my add I just got another nibble, this one being a 951B which the seller says has a D330 in it. I have not looked at it yet, the seller sent me these pics. No ROPS but I will just use it on the home farm mostly & the machine does not look all banged & dented up. Undercarriage is worn, but I can deal with that. Now I am thinking, instead of pulling the engine on this one, maybe I could use a nice old loader like this one too............hmmm. It is a 3 hr. drive to look at the 951B as well. Where is this all going to end?? I am asking the seller to get me the Ser# so I can check out the date on the unit & go from there.
By all means check the s/n. The 951B went to "C" at s/n 86J1992 and the engine changed from the D330C to the 3304.
Any idea what date the "B's" changed over to "C's"?
The change was beginning of 1972.
The seller sent me a pic of the Ser # plate & it is 80H 298x, cannot read the last number. Is this a good number to identify the year of mfg
There's something weird here. 80H298x is a 1st-generation 941 (S/N range 80H1-3039), not a 951 of any vintage B, C, or whatever........ The engine in it will be a D330 of some vintage or other, the 3304 wasn't fitted to 941's until the B model started with S/N 80H3884
Right......after I posted the last message I looked on RitchieWiki & see where the 80Hxxxx series was a 941, not 951, yet on the door of the loader the seller sent me this picture of the lube chart which labels the machine as a 951. Perhaps someone changed the door from off of a 951 to this machine at some point...........
Perhaps so, but the only reliable number to use IMHO is the machine Serial Number.......
If the loader dates from the time period in the early-to-mid 70's when Cat were having "supply issues" it may well be that the lubrication plate was the only one they had to go on the tractor at the time. I'd imagine that despite being different models in some respects the 941 & 951 probably had the same lubrication points with the same lubrication frequency.
They also use the same Service Manual, the 941/951 are near the same from a service and lube issue. tctractors
Thanks Tony, that would appear to confirm what I suspected ........
I sent the seller of the loader the Ritchie Wiki specs & he confirmed by dimensions that is it a 941. It is a 3 hr drive to get there, so it will be a week or so until I am free. A cousin of mine from the area the seller is in, went last weekend to look at the 941 & gave a positive report, indicating there were no leaks, good starting when cold, no unusual smoke/sounds from the engine etc. & watched the seller move the loader around & all seemed good. My cousin is a mechanic, but not used to heavy equipment. The pads are worn bad, but that has it's advantages when loading trucks, as they do not tend to tear things up as much. Sprockets a getting there, looking kind of pointy. All cylinders are dry as well. See more pics taken by my cousin........
In general from the photos it looks tidy, but without the 20/20 vision that come from actually looking at it. If the sprockets and track shoes are in that state, what state is the rest of the undercarriage system in..?
The engine in the 941 is the 330C. tctractors
Getting back on track here for the engine search for another D330 to replace the other engine we pulled in the D4D Ser# 78A6909 Dozer, the one that had the bad crank (seen earlier on in this posting) & got a hit from someone tonight that has one available in a generator & the Ser # on the D330 is 2B4012 taken off the plate on the generator. Anyone know based on the Ser # how compatible this engine may be & the date of mfg? See the attached photos provided by the seller. He is over 5 hrs away so need to do a bit of homework on it.