Hi all, looking for a 1W6192 pump drive adapter for my 3304, hopefully with SAE B 13 teeth output spline. Christmas gift for the wife of course. Cheers.
Also, if I can't find a pump drive adapter, are there any concerns with driving the pump off the front of the crank? I haven't found a torque/hp rating for the 3304 with that setup. Any recommendations for a drive coupling would help too. Preferably short flex unit rather than universals/shaft/universal style. Thoughts?
Best post the serial number so that you can get some accurate information. Are you talking a fuel pump, hydraulic pump, not sure. Give more history of why being repaired and so forth. Simon C
I think it was on an old IH small 500 or ? dozer a friend had. The hyd pump was driven off the crankshaft, that was a disaster. Vibrations made it a huge mess to deal with. It will need a good dampening system for what ever coupler you use, to work properly, and not be destroyed.
Just to be clear this is a CAT 3304B serial #83705049 arrangement #1W3884 driving a 70KW generator in a boat. I have a 25gpm load sensing hydraulic pump that I would like to drive off the lower mounting position on the back face of the front gear case. (It sticks way out on the left side, on trucks the compressor mounts in the top position) The pump drive mounts in the lower position and has a 40T gear that picks up the edge of the big gear in the gear case. The output side of the pump drive adapter is an SAE B housing that accepts a 13T spline shaft. Also receives oil pressure through a line from the block. Group number for the pump drive adapter is 1W6192.
Thanks Simon, here's more... Just to be clear this is a CAT 3304B serial #83705049 arrangement #1W3884 driving a 70KW generator in a boat. I have a 25gpm load sensing hydraulic pump that I would like to drive off the lower mounting position on the back face of the front gear case. (It sticks way out on the left side, on trucks the compressor mounts in the top position) The pump drive mounts in the lower position and has a 40T gear that picks up the edge of the big gear in the gear case. The output side of the pump drive adapter is an SAE B housing that accepts a 13T spline shaft. Also receives oil pressure through a line from the block. Group number for the pump drive adapter is 1W6192.
Thanks chidog, This is a concern for sure, I don't have any CAT specs saying its okay to drive anything off the crank on the front. Not always a given. There are some fancy couplings out there but which one is right?
It was pretty common to see front mount hydraulic pumps on marine 3304’s. All the parts were Twin Disc and lovejoy. Back in the old days. I saw them on seiners and boats that had power blocks. That was a different place and time. What they called hard work, is now a crime. Knowwhatimsayin? I don’t do that stuff anymore. Now, I dabble in tanks. Big or small. I fix them all. If the hazmat starts drippin’, don’t be trippin’.
SplineShop.com has some random hard to find hydraulic spline adaptors. We've ordered some stuff from them, it good stuff.
I see that Logan Clutch Corp in OH is building modern, front drive PTO systems for Cat engines. They may have a solution.
I”ll put a couple things out there first I would be careful running the pump off the front gear train I know when they went to the 3116 in the 953 they had to move the hyd pump because the gear train was not strong enough Nige might be able to find out how big of pump the gear train will stand. As far as running off the front crank I have seen them run winches of the front of the engine on 963s
The engine Serial Number is actually 83 Z 05049. Built 3rd June 1989. Other than that all the other details are correct. I will have a dig around. Whether there is any definitive info out there is anyone's guess. TBH like many other contributors I think you'd be far better running the pump off the front end of the crankshaft.
This may interest you......... 3N4119 MOUNTING GP-HYDRAULIC PUMP DRIVE NOTE: PROVIDES MOUNTING OF CUSTOMER INSTALLED HYDRAULIC PUMP DRIVE WITH CUT-OFF CLUTCH ON FRONT OF ENGINE. CLUTCH MUST BE SAE 8 INCH SINGLE PLATE, OVER CENTER, WITH SAE NO. 5 HOUSING & NO. 305 PILOT BEARING. AN ATTACHMENT
If you are relocating a pump, just make sure your drive is rotating the right direction. Pumps are designed to rotate in one direction
Thanks Nige, yes I somehow translated the Z to a 7. I've seen the 3N4119 before but need the see the part breakdown to fully understand it. Also changing the plan to run off the crank means getting a different pump to run CCW rather than CW. Already explored modifying my existing pump but ea$ier to just buy different pump and resell this one. The pump drive I need is really scarce. The old CAT number is 8N5488, brings up the same part as 1W6192. Somebody must have one out there!
The 8N-5488 seems to have been used on earlier series of engine, for example 3304 where your engine is a 3304B. 1W-6192 is used on the B-Series of engines including 3304.
Thanks Nige, I see what you're getting at with the 8N5488 preceding the 1W6192. I would take a swing at either hoping the 40T gear meshed properly on my engine. Interesting that the pump drive shows no bearing just an oil gallery mid shaft. Its like a big bushing, must rely on the pump shaft bearing for some of its load. Also the breakdown of the 3N4119 clears up the idea for me, the damper cross section had me thinking clutch or flex coupling. I don't have much room on the front of the engine but if I can't find the 1W6192 I'll have to find a 3N4119. Had a guy from Portland Tractor in Edmonton looking today, he said he found components in Turkey, Israel, Australia, but not enough to assemble a complete 1W6192. Crazy. Thank you again for the drawings...
I looked it up and the 8N5491 Gear As from the earlier type drive is cancelled and replaced in the system by the 4W4941 Gear As from the later type drive. So they must be interchangeable. See below.
Who had winches on 963s? Rj corman for rail road work?
It wasn't Corman I'll have to think about who it was for a while
Good sleuthing Nige! I see that gear is readily available, now if I can find a housing 4W4925 or 1W6015 I might be able to build the group.
I'm seeing links to older D5H dozers with 3304 engines, possibly having pump drives on them. Sound right?
The serial number should read #83Z05049. Also I have pics of the pump drive off my 3406B to give you all an idea of the part I'm looking for. Too bad they're not interchangeable. The last pic shows the mount postion on my 3304B. Cheers!
Nope. The pumps on the dozers generally drive off the torque converter at the back of the engine, not at the front.
Thanks Nige, makes more sense...
What flange and shaft is the pump that was on here? I've been fighting trying to find load sensing pumps that would bolt up to a CAT drive box from a 773B haul truck, the CAT pumps that were on it were gear pumps with 2 bolt C-flange & C-shaft splines, but I found out when trying to install a new load sensing pump that CAT pumps (at least on the 773B) have an input shaft that is 3/4" longer then a "standard" c-drive pump. I ended up designing an adaptor to bolt to the drive box in CAD, then I farmed out the work to a machine shop since we don't have a fancy enough mill to do the work, now I have some factory Versatile Rexroth load sensing B-flange pumps that will bolt up to the CAT C-flange hole. Went with the Versatile pumps because they are a 1/4 the cost of a C-flange pump direct from Rexroth. I'll attach some pics if you want to get some ideas to go out of the box.
That's a great looking adapter, nice work! I'm trying to mount an SAE B 13T spline load-sensing pump. Bit lighter than your application. I guess I'm just coming around to the cost of this part. I have quotes for some of the components but just the housing 4W4925 alone will cost me $3,000. CAD. Holding out hope I can find a complete GRTO somewhere. My pump is an Eaton 70423 with a 13T ** shaft.
I think you need to tell us what ya are putting together there. Kimda lopks loke it maybe a fun time
It's a 800hp farming tractor, supply chains have been a huge PIA! But we are getting closer.
The price can be a huge deal. The pump Rexroth was wanting to sell us was $8500! And we will need 3 of them, I found that Versatile is using a Rexroth pump with the same output that I can get for $1600! Then the adaptor machining and spline adaptors sourced out of Denmark were about $1000. So adaptors and new pump for $2600 vs a pump with a shaft 3/4" short for $8500. And now in the future whenever the tractor needs a new pump its the $1600 Versatile pump that is sitting on pretty much any dealers parts shelf ready to go.
This is fantastic. You've inspired me to build up my own adapter. I went over the drawings with my machinist and with a $300 purchase of the gear/spline, we will build the housing ourselves. Just waiting for the part to arrive so we can start. Will post results...