Hey guys, as the title says I need some wisdom from some of you that work on this stuff daily. I bought a 98' International 4900 S/A tractor cheap. Has the Spicer 6+1 7 speed that was really common in these trucks. Its a an ES065-7A. Only had L and R functioning. Pulled it yesterday and the pocket bearing on the input shaft is gone as are the splines where the mainshaft splines into the output shaft. Basically all the shafts are toast. I stopped there and didn't get into the forks. I think one of those is damaged too based on debris I found. SO. This isn't my dream transmission. Questioning how many dollars I want to put into it. It was supposedly replaced around 150k miles ago. Has anyone seen this before? the tag is clearly stamped ES065 - I am thinking its a 650 ftlb rated transmission- right on the edge of what my engine should be outputting. Do the HT 466's tear these up or did I just get an anomaly? I kind of want a 13 speed or an 8LL or something more fun/better for off road use. Making the truck into a little dump truck. What kind of pitfalls am I going to have putting one of these in here? I believe I have a Sae #2 bell housing/clutch housing. I have a pull type clutch, but the spicer has no trans brake. 10 spline input shaft. I see some other transmissions out there that look like that would work, would just have to add a rear support and shorten the driveshaft. I am thinking the shift tower may move back too? Basically looking to talk this out with some of you to decide what route to take. There is a 77' frieightliner for sale locally with a 13 in it behind a 350 cummins. I haven't go a hold of the seller yet to see if I can go look at it for the transmission. Its a CEO so i'm sure the sifter wouldn't work but might the tower? I can't find much info on what bell housing a 350 would have. Anyone know? As for the trans brake, if I found a transmission that has one, I assume the pull type clutch should be compatible to operate it or am I looking at having to change out clutch and throw out bearing too?
I would think a 13 or 8ll is way overkill for no more truck than you have. Its length weight and complexity, none of which you need. I'd look for a newer 9 or 10speed or even a super 10, and figure out if you need a forward or center tower location. Figure out if you need a big input shaft or the small one (I'm guessing small), and whether your current transmission is a direct drive, underdrive, or overdrive in the top gear and what the low gear ratio is. Any 9 or 10 is going to have closer ratio's than the 7 speed, and you're not likely to hurt one with a 466. They are also not near as difficult to find or as expensive as a 13 or 8ll, the big dump truck guys are all snatching them up. There's no reason to buy a whole truck just to get the transmission, they aren't that rare, I'd look for a newer junkyard trans, before buying a '77.
Its more about want than need I bought this as sort of a for fun project. If the 7 had been an easy fix I would have just put it back in, but now it seems like maybe looking for something else isn't the most foolish idea. I am pretty sure the current trans is an overdrive. What I can't find is the rear axle ratio. I never got to run down the road in this but seeing how it was set up, as a road tractor, I am thinking its probably geared on the higher end. Not opposed to a 9 or 10 if one pops up. Never driven a super 10.... have heard mixed things. Is forward or center tower coded into the model number of Eaton transmissions like the other specs are? The 77' is a junker. Doesn't run. Sitting in waist high weeds. Cabs all bent like someone moved it with an excavator or something. I was more thinking if I could get it for a few hundred bucks and the transmission was compatible I would rather put the money into going through that one than rebuilding my 7 speed.
Give me the last eight of your VIN and I should be able to look up the gear ratio.
last 8 of the VIN are WH520582 - If you can see what HP engine it has can you let me know that too? Seller said it was the 250 HP HT variant. Haven't interdependently confirmed that but he seemed honest about it. He bought the truck new actually.
You can just jack up the rear end and spin a tire while someone counts revolutions of the driveline, to find out your rear axle ratio.
divided by two or tie a string to the balance weight or U joint and then count the wraps.
Sometimes.
I always just make two revolutions of the tire. I think.
X 2, I was trying to make a joke, and still got the math wrong!
Short response from someone who maintained a IH fleet. The Spicer was OK, but they did fail occasionally just like you described. Not overly expensive or difficult to replace with a reman. The super 10 suggestion is intriguing. For me, I like to 8LL all the things.
I had two of those transmissions in International "S" series trucks and neither were liked as they were worn out far too early. I installed an RT-9509 w/#2 bell into one truck and it was a good match. I want to say the axle ratio was lower than 3:55 but the non overdriven trans was great in the application. No splitter "whine" as was common with the older 13 speeds either. Ran that truck several years till closing up shop. The other truck was a 1999 w/240hp DT-466E engine and didn't keep that truck two years. Almost a year of that was back at the dealer time and time again for major repairs; turbo, head, dropped valve, transmission, emissions.....
This thread is worthless without pictures. TT-215 is a helluva rig. She’s still plying the muddy roads of SW Alaska delivering the liquid gold.
Here’s my truck. I have zero *need* for it. Wanted it because I’ve always kinda wanted to put a single axle dump together and these 4900s are what I cut my teeth on when I was a kid. Going to pull the cab and putz around fixing the rust. hoping I have better luck with my 466 than you, 1693TA… I drove so many of them back in the day and never had much for issues.
This is the engine : International : DT 466E HEUI INT DSL 250HP/2300RPM 50 State 250 HP @ 2300 RPM, 660 lb-ft Torque @ 1450 RPM, 2300 RPM Governed Speed Transmission: TRANSMISSION, MANUAL {International 6-PLUS (ESO65-7A)} 7-Speed Manual; with Overdrive Rear axle: DIFFERENTIAL, REAR 5.63:1 c AXLE, REAR, SINGLE {Spicer J210-S} Single Reduction 21,000-lb Capacity, With 190 Wheel Ends 5.63:1 is the rear axle ratio according to the parts manual. The truck looks to be in good condition for 25 years old. Northern Insulation Products was the original owner.
10 is better. Use two people. mark the tire and the shaft.
With a 5.63 axle ratio you will be gear bound without a overdrive of .74. Your best bet is a 10 speed C model, it has a low of either 11.6 or 12.69 with a overdrive of .74.
I just can't believe a dt466 could hurt a transmission of any kinda
The transmissions they use in these trucks wear the syncros out over time, they also are prone to slow oil leaks in a couple spots. Ten years without checking the oil level is not unusual. We had one towed to the shop a couple months back, the driver broke the shift lever off just below the pivot ball in the tower. One inch diameter hard steel shaft and he somehow broke it.
Well I started asking around ended up with another whole parts truck with a mechanical 466 and a RTO 9513 in it with a mated hydraulic pump. I’ll have to change my axle gearing but seems worth it given the circumstances.
Invest in some ear plugs.
Parts truck looks like better cab in the rockers than the first truck. Can't you take a axle from the parts truck if you have gearing issues?
Its not the engine that you need to worry about its the Driver.
Its a international cab, transmission noise is just a extra tone in the cacophony of melodious dissonance that rattles around in them.
Noted. Haha. Are they whiney? The cab is better and the doors are really nice. I think I am going to just fix the cab I have though and sell the parts one to recover most of what I paid for this truck. Parts truck is on hendrickson walking beam. I think its super cool but don't want to make a tandem, Not sure what I am going to do with the axles. Going into my 7 speed I wondered if it had broken forks or shift mechanism from a careless driver, but seeing how it failed it looks like it was bad maintenance or bad parts or bad luck. There was oil in it but I didn't check the level, it maybe was low. It had been rebuilt once and replaced 150k ish miles ago according to the service records. I looked up the parts I needed and saw they are for sale on eBay... made in china or india or something. Made me wonder if the replacement transmission had possibly be rebuilt with low quality parts. I guess I will never know why it failed. I've driven so many of these and never found them that bad. My other truck is a F800 ford and that is loud. It has a radio but I don't know why.
I was ask to look at a truck that had a 7 speed. The guy let another guy take it for a test drive. I went and looked at it thinking it had a broken fork but i couldnt get the top off because the trans was part way under a flat bed it had on it the truck was used to pull a goose neck that was steal hooked to it. I hauled my torch out there and cut the beds cross member and got the top off it did have a broken fork and also the main shaft was broken in to. This is were the job went bad . The truck would steal move in first so i hooked its trailer to my pickup and hauled it home. I pulled the trans then he didnt want to spend any money on it. Months later a another guy called me saying he had bought it and was coming to get it i told him not till i got paid. The new buyer ended up getting a trans and paying me for the job.I put the original owners name on my never help agin list.
That guy used to work for me...
Instead of ear plugs maybe a dictionary would be best.
I never claimed to be bright I do need one for 3 of those big words
Reviving- Will the bell-housing off the ES066 work on an Eaton RTX? Both are OD- I’m asking about the bell housing specifically for an International DT466.
No it will not.
You wouldn’t happen to have an SAE #2 bell housing to fit an RTX for sale by chance would you? Or know of where to source one? I mistakenly assumed it would fit.
Check any truck salvage yards in your vicinity, used bells for #1 or #2 are averaging $300 and up, use to be able find them for $125 all day long. And in some cases as much as 800 to $1000. #A3722
What transmission do you have?
RTX12609B- 9 speed The rear on the truck is a 5.15:1 so I need the 0.73 OD.
That will give about 62 mph @ 1900 with 40.75 tall tires.
It will be a local single axle truck with a DT466. That doesn’t sound like a lot but it will be sufficient. Does this sound about right?
@ 2100--yes.
I do not thank you can get a fuller bell housing over a 9 series that will bolt up to a DT.
Page 7, items #8. * https://www.progearandtransmission.com/manuals/Eaton-Fuller-RTX-12609B-Transmission-Parts-Manual.pdf
Thank You. I’ve seen a few 9 speed Fuller DT466E trucks for sale & felt like there was some kind of trick.
Interesting: I caught hell finding a housing for a 9509 replacing a 5 speed years ago. Almost no one knew anything. Cannot knock this modern technology sometimes. Look things up and or get an answer from someone who knows looking a different ocean.
Eaton built so many combinations--all on the same basic platform.