I know ASV makes the controls for cat skid steers & cat makes the undercarrige for ASV. Are there more differences between the two or are they basical Chevy Vs. GMC (i.e. same thing different name).
I think you have your stuff pretty well backwards. ASV makes the undercarriage for Cat, and i think Cat make the pilot controls. There are a few similarities, but they are very different machines. Most of the Cats are vertical lift and the RC's are all radial lift. A few models may share component and assembles, but good luck figuring out which goes where.
I find it funny that some folks think Cat makes the undercarriages. I had someone try to argue with me about it standing next to the Cat 277B we had. I let him ramble on about their partnership then I showed him the ASV logo stamped into the undercarriage itself. That pretty much removes all doubt. ASV builds the carriages, Cat does the rest.
The actual pilot controls are RexRoth
I second the RexRoth, and Cat owns 23% of ASV's shares, they had major influence over ASV when they had to re-design the new UC's for the new C series and B2 versions of Cat's MTL's, Cat lost a lot of money over bad UC's due to ASV not warrantying them, so Cat twisted their arms and told them to build a longer lasting and simplified track set up. But here's the other side, CamoPlast, builds the rollers and idlers for ASV as well as any rubberized parts for Cat's Challenger series tractors.
I thought it was Agco that made the Challenger Tractors, only with Cat engines.
That's the way it is now, though much of the technology was carried over from Cat's days in the business.
So Cat doesn't have the Challengers anymore?!?!
challenger yep been that way for a few years now
I think most Cat dealers still sell them tho.
Cat tried for several years to make a run at the ag market and could never manage to get out of the red . They never could overcome the big green mother ship
Nothing runs like a Deere.......when chased by a CAT. :notworthy
My joysticks have CAT on em
The pilot controls are off the shelf Rexroth components. As with most compenents like that (drives, pumps, valves) the OEMs prefer to utilize existing vendors to keep costs down, as opposed to reinventing the wheel. When you really look at anyones machine they are all built utilizing readily available components (minus things like the frame, and loader arms) its the way they are engineered to work together that makes them brand specific.
are you kidding me?? :crazy Remember what "CAT" is short for.....Caterpillar....which is a bug. That is what John Deere squashed them like on the ag side:beerchug
cat and asv Cat and ASV are in kahoots together but not for much longer it sounds like.though they will be still using there undercarrages Terex is suppose to aquire ASV.
Terex has bought ASV and bought out Cat, but Cat signed a deal in 2006 (I think) for 5 years of buying their U/C's, see what happens in 2010/11, what Cat will do then, whether they keep buying or build their own, it's any one's guess.
Most manufacturers utilize off the shelf components from other manufacturers and it has been that way for years. I call it catalog engineering and generally blame all manufacturing defects on the process. Machines from Japan Inc. usually have Kawasaki or Kyaba pumps, Isuzu or Hino engines unless linked to US machines, Toshiba swing reduction gears and so on. Just look at any Japanese excavator and tell me any real differences. Cat calls the tracked skid steers MTLs and I have been pretty luke warm about their use. All manufactures of MTLs have been pretty costly to operate and generally very hard to fix. The article I read in one of the trade rags stated that Cat was in favor of the merger between Terex and ASV.
Are the track systems on an ASV much more expensive to replace than say on a JCB 1110T? Dealers say JCB is $2,500.00 while ASV RC100 goes for around 5K to service the tracks. Track Life?
A track for the RC100 is massive compared to a JCB track, you've got almost twice the length of rubber as the conventional CTL tracks, so yeah, ASV tracks are a little more costly, but they have a "secret ingredient" rubber.
I can't speak for the JCB 1110T or the ASV RC100 but I drink beers every once in a while with a guy who owns a JCB 190T and he gets about 650 hours out of his tracks. We watched the Packer/Giant game with some of our buddies and he has around 1900 hours now and is getting ready to replace his third set. Bobcat ron is correct in saying that you can't really compare the two because the RC100 track is much bigger. I will get about 2000 hours out of my RC50 tracks (probably early this Spring) but once again there is no comparison between my machine and the JCB 1110T because my tracks are smaller. I was told that the ASV machines average about 1500 hours on their tracks.
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums martygilbreth! :drinkup
My former boss has a Cat 257 that he bought new and only got about 450hrs out of a set of tracks. Granted we did a lot of demo with the machine. We went to the Landscape Show in 2006 in Toronto and we were eying up a new 257 and pointing out all the problems we had to another contractor. Thats when the Cat salesman walked over and asked scott what he thought of the MTL. Thats when it hit the fan. There were a couple other people standing there so he started goin off about the MTL's and how crappy they were. His favourite line to describe them was "Ok picture having a big giant wad of 100's, now walk around dropping them end to end all the way around this (censored) and then walking away... the machine will actually suck up all your money". Then the salesman started telling us about the new style undercarriage and the improvements they had made to them and then he heard a great quote "You can polish on a turd all day long, but all you get at the end of the day is a shiny turd" Oddly enough a week later Scott bought a brand new 257B and that proved to be the worst purchase for a skid steer he had made. The new turbocharged engine had less power, the tracks jumped and one drive motor was slower than the other. But the A/C worked GREAT! Also for some trivia... does anyone know what ASV stands for? Because I have an answer that will crack you up.. its so corny you'll find yourself using it.
I'm going to buy a skid steer within a week for mulching. Probably buy a Timber Axe head and an RC100. Will operate it myself and take better than average care of the machine. Any ideas on how long an RC100 might last (hourwise) before I might consider it ineffecient? This'll help me with budgeting. Any reason why I shouldn't buy an ASV? Wife likes the JCB 1110T but only because of a 2 year warranty and the safety factor of side entry because our son will be using it. He's 16. Any comments welcome on cost. blades, sprockets, oils, tracks (track life), do's and don'ts of operating, etc.
So you're saying the ASV tracks aren't really overpriced compared to others? The JCB guy (dealer) says it costs more than twice as much money to upkeep an ASV as it does a JCB. True? Am I comparing a Cadillac to a Yugo? Are both machines comparable in their abilities and service life?
C'mon what does ASV stand fer Burnout!!!!
I've seen guys up here with a couple thousand hours on their RC100s. I used to sell Bobcats (8 years) with great success and ultimately ended up buying an ASV RC50 even though I had sold over 200 of Bobcats tracked machines. I had gone up against them in demos and seen enough of them in the field here in Wisconsin to know what they could do and how they performed. I still own a Bobcat skid (don't use it much any more) but the RC50 was one of thebest purchase decisions I've made. There is a big difference between the ASV and the CAT MTLs. ASV builds dedicated track machines whereas CAT attaches ASVs undercarriage to a skid steer chassis. The CAT 247 is the only MTL I would recommend to someone based on what I've seen in the field. The others weight and balance is too disproportionate and causes uc problems (especially the 257).
I will give you opinion from the perspective of a former salesman. The RC100 has a hyd tank that holds 20 gallons and the JCB has a total hydraulic system that holds under 10 gallons. I willing to say the the RC100 will run much cooler especially since I know that mulching puts a heavy demand on the machines capability to keep the oil cool. The RC100 hydraulic system puts out 38gpm and the JCB puts out 32gpm (someone back me up on this-I'm rusty). If you combine this with the hydraulic operating pressure of the RC100 (3300psi) and the JCB (less than 2700psi) the RC100 puts out 23 more hyd. hp- RC100-73hyd. hp JCB- 50 hyd hp). This is only calculated and does not take into account the engine hp or the torque the engine puts out to power the hydraulic pump when you are doing heavy mulching. The RC100 puts out 92net hp and the JCB puts out around 82 net hp (once again someone back me up if they know for sure). The RC100 puts out 304 ft lbs of engine torque and I'm not sure about the JCB but I'm sure its much less. Another thing to think about is the ability of the machine to handle the mulching head that is sticking out there in front of the machine going up and down sometimes on uneven terrain (ask someone who mulches how big of a deal this is). The RC100 has a ROC of 3800lbs and the JCB has an ROC of around 3200lbs. The Timberaxe probably weighs around 2300lbs. the extra ROC will be noticable. I have never seen a JCB mulching up here where I'm at. I'm not saying there not out there but mulching is pretty big business in the upper midwest and probably 80% of the machines I see out there mulching are RC100s. My best suggestion would be for you to demonstrate both machines with the head you will be using. Good luck.
Thats too bad you had a bad experience. I agree with you that the 257 is rough on tracks. I have a RC50 that will go over 2000 hours on the tracks this spring sometime and my machine only weighs 5300lbs. I have had a good experience and I've seen enough of them in the field after years selling against them to know that they get pretty good track life on average. The CAT 257 weighs around 7600lbs on the same undercarriage. I would only recommend the CAT 247 due to its lighter weight and better weight distribution.
Same here, that's one of the decisions that made me choose the 247, the 257 is heavier and the COG is really high. Same with the C series, if you want a bigger Cat MTL, the 277 is a better choice, ASV rates their U/C's for so much ROC plus the weight of the machine itself, so the 257, 287, 297 are almost maxed out with a loaded bucket.
I will agree that the 247 was a nicer machine overall to have on site. As for ASV... One day I had to go get parts for the 257 and I ended up having to bring my girlfriend with me. So were in there ordering parts and the salesman asked me what ASV stood for. I didnt know but Sara thought it would be hilarious to blurt out in the cat dealer... "ASV stands for Awesome Sexual Vehicle"
She was close ,actually it stands for All Season Vehicle,but i like your g/f explanation better.:notworthy:usa
Your girlfriend rocks!
Yeah she was quite the lady... we're not dating anymore but were great friends. We have known eachother since we were kids. Now I found a lovely lady thats even weirder.
Hate to disagree, but I believe it stands for "All surface Vehicle" I think I saw it in the quarterly mag they send me....
ASV-All Season Vehicles.
Awesome Sexual Vehicle.
I now only refer to it as an Awesome Sexual Vehicle.....I think its time for an official petition to ASV to have their name changed!