I was looking at some specs for the Terex RH 400 vs. the Komatsu PC 8000, Hitachi EX 8000, and Liebherr R9800. (I think I have all the big ones listed) and have a bunch of questions: I know the RH400 is bigger than the others (by about 200T?), but what about bucket capacity vs. the others in identical ground? Do the 800T class machines give the bigger Terex (maybe it's a Bucyrus now or a Cat?) a run for the money by also loading in the same # of passes? How many of these machines are working and which brand is most popular? Many thanks!
RH400 has a 100 ton payload (4 pass loads a 400 ton haul truck). R9800 is around 90, PC8000 and EX8000 are 80. PC8000 is the most popular - around 50 operating. EX8000 and RH400 both have about a dozen. R9800 is new. The first is operating in Australia.
The RH400 has a bit larger of a bucket depending on how it is spec'd out. It's not so much the bucket capacity that gives an RH400 a loading advantage, but it does help. The 400's biggest advantage is the breakout force it can deliver due in part to the TriPower linkage that they have. Combine this with the extra weight, and the machine can really lean into the bank, and fill that slightly larger bucket quite a bit faster in hard digging. This results in faster cycle times and higher loading capacity. We've had an RH400 digging side by side with an EX8000, and there is no comparison, the 400 blows the 8000 out of the water. We also have the predecessor to the PC8000 working in our mine. It's claimed that this machine was really the first of the PC8000s before they changed the numbering over. I'm sure the newer PC8000s are better, but I can out load it with a 17 year old RH200 with 106,000 hours on the clock. The other machines you mentioned have similar, but slightly smaller capacities to the 400s, and load with the same number of passes theoretically. But the 400 can get full buckets in hard digging where the others have proved they struggle to get full buckets in our digging conditions. That's not counting the R9800, as we don't have one up here, so I can't offer a true opinion on how they run. With how poorly their trucks perform up here, I can't imagine we'll see a 9800 up here any time soon. I'm not sure if there are 1 or 2 of the R9800s at this point, but there are currently 9 400s running I believe. I also thing there are about 8 EX8000s, though there may be a couple more. There are many more PC8000s than all of the others combined.
Alco, how are the Liehberr trucks holding together up there? Are they dry disk service brakes?
Yep, they're dry disc service brakes....totally inadequate for a mining truck. The trucks aren't holding up at all, I think pure garbage would be a good description. We're having to reframe trucks at 25,000 hours. The suspensions are falling apart constantly, more drive system faults than you can shake a stick at, the list goes on and on. We had a small snow storm the night before last, of 26 trucks, 12 were already broke down, and 8 more broke down from ingesting a few snow flakes into the grid box.....which blows the resistor grids. That causes any number of electrical faults such as losing retarding capability, losing steering, losing....well, I think you get the idea. Scrap iron, pure and simple!
Seen a couple of them Liehberrs up in wyoming, they were assembling them. Nice lookin' truck. The dry disk brakes and the A-arms on the front suspension looked like trouble to me. I guess some of the mines like Liebherrs over Komatsu because you can get a Liebherr with a MTU engine instead of Cummins.
That may be the one thing about them that's actually good! We've even gone as far as to derate ours to 340 tons to try and improve availability....still didn't help.
Alco- How would you compare production amounts using a Hitachi 1900 with a 15 cyd bucket vs a 993K Cat wheel loader. The 993K has a 17 Cyd bucket, but the operators say the bucket is to big for the machine. The machines are digging in limestone, loading 789 Cat 200 Ton Trucks. I would think the cost per ton and the total ton production would be better with the shovel. What do you think?
I honestly couldn't say for sure, the only 993K I have ever seen was the one at MinExpo. They don't tend to use large wheel loaders for loading up here. Large hoes and shovels are typically what we have. I do know the 1900 is a nice machine, and not too slow. I think the 1900 would be on the small size for loading 789s cost effectively to begin with. But I also have a feeling it would be a better match than a 993K, as wheel loaders have always proved to be a slower machine to load with than a hoe from past experiences of mine. I think the 1900 would probably be a lower cost per ton, but I can't say for sure.
Your problem right there is mismatched loading tool to the target, pure and simple. An excavator/shovel will always be cheaper because you dont move the whole machine to put a bucket of dirt in the back of a truck. 993K when matched to the right truck with a good operator and the job set up is good can cycle right with a HEX of comparable size, although truck load counts at the end of the day may be a better way to record it as a wheel loader usually wields a bigger bucket so each pass see,s productivity gain over the HEX and maybe marginally slower cycle times in some cases. My very simple rule of thumb for matching diggers to trucks is that whatever the truck can carry (and lets use the 789 in this case, so 200 tons in round numbers) you need a digger with double the trucks carrying capacity, therefore a 400 ton operating weight digger. This rough and ready theory will then see you with a HEX that can swing a bucket that will have the truck loaded in 4 -5 passes which by any contractors standards will see them making money. Sure you can load 89,s with a 1900 but you will not make money unless you are cooking the books to the client. The key to making money with trucks is to move the dirt and you do not have that when it takes 8 - 10 buckets to load a truck. They make no money when sitting under a digger and that my friends is why scrapers are a low cost dirt mover but thats another story!!
Let's put your precious scrapers in a mine pit with 100% shot rock, and see how much money they make Gav......LOL.:tong