Short background: I have grass sod business, and at the time, I do the smaller deliveries myself (less than 7 or so pallets). Pallets weigh about a ton each. Said truck also has to carry a forklift on the back (another 3200 lbs.) I currently have a 2000 International 4700 with DT466 flatbed and it has served me admirably for almost 3 years. It's 25500 gvw, so it legally maxes out at 5 pallets. I'm looking to get a 33000 (or so) gvwr so I can carry about 8 pallets (maybe even 9 or 10 without the forklift.) Also want another truck as my business is on the verge of being able to be able to support another delivery driver. (and I'd like to have a second truck in case of breakdowns, etc) Here's the questions that I ask myself as I shop: -Should I spend more to get a newer truck? -Is newer better? (say 2000 vs. 2007?) -Is newer more comfortable? -Is newer more reliable? -Should I stick with International or look at maybe Peterbilt? -What about a Freightliner? -Is Truckpaper and craigslist my source to being looking for a truck? -I wonder what percentage of trucks for sale are listed on Truckpaper? For informational purposes, I could probably pay cash for a truck up to about $30k, but that doesn't mean I want to, much less even know if should. That $12k 2000 International might be just the ticket, ya know?:beatsme I'd welcome any feedback to the questions that I keep tossing around in my little brain.
i would look at a nice tandem flatbed that could pull a tag trailer if need be. Personally if i didnt have to i wouldn't mess with the newer trucks as all the emissions junk just = more problems and more expensive repairs. I have seen very nice international 3 axles with 24'beds set up for moffet style forklifts with 300HP DT530's for under 20K with around 180,000 miles on them. thats what i would look for if i was in your shoes.
I am also truck shopping. I am currently looking at 2005 International that has been derated to 25,999. I am wondering.... does anything physical actually happen to a truck that has been derated.... or do they just change the id plate?
No they just regester it lower to save on plates and so you don't need a cdl to drive. As long as they don't have air breaks.
Are you sure you need a CDL if it has air brakes? I had heard that was a myth. Gosh I hope not, because I am driving 250 miles to look at one with air brakes!!!
I know you atleast need a endorsment on your licenes. I just assumed you would need a cdl for the endorsment.
How do you get an endorsement on your license for this? We rent a 25,999 freightliner with air brakes from Penske, and Penske has never required this, but it might be an oversight on their part.
There are lots of info about CDL's on here If I remember, you dont need a CDL, if the combo weight, is less than 26,001 lbs. To drive a truck with air brakes, you need to go get a endorsement on your regular license. I THINK you need a truck with air brakes, to take the air brake test. I dont think you need to drive, just show that you know how to operate a truck with air brakes. Its not that hard, just get a book and study air brakes Trucks I would stay away from any new truck, unless you have plenty of money to waste I have owned more than 40 trucks, in the last 14 years, my best trucks were the older trucks 1985-1990, Ford L9000. I have owned all the normal brands out there, I think Pete's & KW are overrated (for the money) I dont like the older Internationals & Freightliner, even though I own a 1989 Freightliner FL120, these trucks seem to be cheaper when buying them My experience with Truck Paper, is the trucks are high priced, for what they are. I buy most of my trucks, from dealers and off Craigslist. Very important, that you know what you are buying, whatever it is, you can get stuck real fast, if you dont know what to look for
Thanks Willis, What makes driving a truck with air brakes difficult? [
Honestly, if you dont know you have air brakes, there is very little difference air brakes has more stopping power, most of the time Of course, you can hear the air brakes working and you know you have air brakes To me, they are easier to work on/replace
I found this on http://dps.alabama.gov/Documents/Manuals/CDLManual.pdf page 62/140 "An air brake endorsement is only required if your vehicle needs a CDL." So since our truck is less than 26000 GVWR, I guess our drivers will not need a CDL or air brake endorsement. But I still may consider giving our drivers a little handout or training session on air brakes..... if I can just figure out why folks think that air brakes are more difficult/dangerous than hydraulic brakes.
I just asked my husband why you would need training for air brakes and he said a couple of things, 1) another gauge you have to watch and make sure you dont lose pressure, and (2) what to do if you do loose pressure. Heck, it cant be too hard with all us old Grannys and Grandpaws driving those 50' RVs, weighing a lot more than 26,000 with AIR BRAKES,
In Alabama that is a myth.:cool2 I am not familiar with other states laws but Alabama follows the Fed's minimum CDL rules which governs by weight, other States may be more restrictive but all States have to follow the min Fed rules. 26,001 GVW and above you need a Class B. 26,0001 GVW pulling a trailer more than 10,000 GVW you need a Class A CDL. The air brake "endorsement" is required when you have a Class A or B CDL and the truck has air brakes. You can have a 25,999 GVW truck with air brakes and all you need is a valid DL and a medical card. You can also have a hyd braked 29K GVW truck pulling a 12K GVW trailer and you would need a Class A CDL but no air brake endorsement. You would also need a Class A CDL with a 19K GVW F550 pulling a 14K GVW trailer but would not need a CDL if the trailer was only 10K GVW. Clear as mud... Basically it's this in Alabama: Truck with less than 26,001 GVW pulling a trailer less than 10,001 GVW - No CDL required Truck with GVW of 26,001 and over, pulling a trailer less than 10,001 GVW - Class B CDL required Truck with GVW of 25,001 and over, pulling a trailer with GVW of 10,001 or greater - Class A CDL required Air brake endorsement required if the trucks requires a CDL and it has air brakes.
CM1995, I think you are right. What you say is comfirmed in the 2005 model comericial drivers license manual found on the state of alabamas site.... Section 1 page 1.1. / the question is asked "Do you need a CDL" and then a flow charts follows which succinctly answers questions. I am convince that at truck under 26,000 with air brakes does not need a CDL.
Yep, that is correct. I did my CDL test in Sumiton with a 25,999 GVW air braked truck and 14,000 GVW electric brake trailer and got a Class A CDL. Didn't need a CDL until I hooked the trailer to the truck. Due to the fact you have to have a CDL driver go with you and we didn't have one available at the time, the other guy taking the test with me drove the truck and I pulled the trailer with my pickup. Put the two together on site and took the test. The truck didn't require a CDL to drive without the trailer and the combined GVW of my pickup and trailer were below 26K GVW. There is always a way to skin a cat.
Thanks for the feedback. Been on a vacation the last few weeks, but getting back on the truck search. Truckpaper is easy, but not working as of yet. Just fyi, there's a search engine called craister.net that is good for searching craigslist nationwide. I've been reluctant to consider a tandem axle, as I have the impression that they have a larger turning radius, more rubber to maintain, and I can get the weight rating I need with only one rear axle. Am I thinking wrong? The turning radius to me is important as many of our deliveries are residential and easy in/out is important. Yep, I gotta get a cdl when I make this move too. (Louisiana requires a "Chauffer's Lic", aka a Class D, to drive that 26000 pound truck) Simple test. DOT man told me the other day I needed a med card too... nice of him that day.
The major difference between hydraulic and air brakes is lag time between applying the brakes and contact between shoes and drums. Also, there are some basic items like draining the air every night and checking slack adjustments. Yes, I know automatic slack adjusters imply that no adjustment is necessary, but I still set my brakes up every week as I grease my truck.
I have yet to find a set of auto-slack adjt. that work like they are should. As for turning radius that is totaly in how the truck is set up. My L9000 has a turning radius that would put some single axels to shame but my LTN9000 turns like a ocean liner. Tandems do scrub tires pretty bad when making tight turns loaded but just remember the first time you sink a single axel in a ditch that a tandem would walk over you will be screaming THE HELL WITH TIRE WEAR. As for load capacity the highest single axel I ever seen was 45000 and that truck was long and heacy speced. Most are around 33000 where as most tandems are somewhere between 50000 to 60000 lbs.
Turning radius is influenced most by the placement of the steer axle.Set back steer axles greatly improve turning radius.Of course overall wheelbase plays in as well.
Thanks Buckfever and tireman, I'm looking to do a 33000-34000 pound truck. Fortunately, in 3 years I've never got my truck off the road (of course, I might have if I had 2 axles back there). I simply unload from the road. I would assume in general, that turning radius is mostly a factor wheelbase (and how far the front wheels will turn)... I'm doing my best to find a truck with the shortest wheelbase, the least amount of axles to handle my job... and so far, it seems like I'm too picky... then again, that's why I'm posting here. Might was well get second opinions while I shop. When looking at a tandem axle truck, is the wheelbase measured at the "front" or "back" rear axle, and which dictates the turning radius?
The position of the steering axle affects turning radius more than does wheelbase. Wheelbase is measured from the center of the forward-most axle to the center of the rear axle - basically steer axle hub to furthest rear axle hub.Two trucks of the same length, one being set forward steer axle, the other being set back, the one with the set back steer axle will have a shorter turning radius, even though the frame is actually longer.
Ya, on a single axle centre of steer axle to centre of drive axle... on multi axle trucks, centre of steer axle to the centreline between the drive axles
just to add my two cents here on airbrakes, If you dont need the air brake endorsment in your state for non cdl trucks then stay in your state. Id reccomend getting everything your need to operate your truck anywhere to be safe or else you might get stuck out of state calling for a ride or tow home. dont ask how I know.
The turning radius is most affected by the wheel base. I get your point about over all length, tireman, but the set back axle only turns sharper because you have shortened the wheel base by moving the axle back. You may not find the correct GVWR truck that is as short as you want it to be. The GVWR is affected by the wheel base because of something known as the "bridge gap". Each state has their own specifications for this gap. This is because each state engineers it's roads and bridges to allow for ceratin amount of weight over a given span. If you increase the wheel base you will reduce the forces applied, to the driving surface, in a given span. The max GVWR single axle trucks will be longer than the lower GVWR single axle trucks. This is because you have a longer span to distribute the load. T/A trucks can carry more weight with the same wheel base than an S/A truck. The T/A trucks still must follow the bridge gap rules but they are afforded more weight because they carry it over more axles/tires and this applies less force to the road. CM1995 is correct about the DOT rules but I think many are over looking one thing. I was under the impression that a driver had to have a CDL if he was driving any vehicle with a GVWR > 10,000# for a commercial entity. It does not apply if driving for personal use but it does apply to any commercial purpose. Maybe someone could clarify that point. To the O/P's original question: I think you would be better served to find an older truck with low miles. Newer trucks are generaly nicer to drive but probably not worth the extra money. As with any used truck a fine tooth comb must be employed when inspecting for purchase. IMO the DT 466 is still a good engine. why not buy another similar truck to what you have. Maybe just a few years newer or at least something nice enough to give your image a boost. Good looking,, and well maintained trucks are good for business and employee morale. Cummins also makes a good medium duty truck engine that is about 210-270 HP. I personally prefer the air brakes over hydraulics on medium duty and HD trucks. Much better braking power and they are not that hard to maintaine.
I believe that the Feds only require a medical card for the > 10K lb commercial vehicle up to the CDL limit, although we all know state rules vary.
Why must we in alabama carry a medical card to do intrastate when the fed. reg.says if you are in interstate commerce?
I am not sure exactly what the Fed regs say about it but AL requires a medical card to drive a CDL licensed vehicle. Which reminds me that mine has expired....
Hey CM, just curious, did you get a "no fithwheel" restriction on your license? you would have in SC.
Mitch I don't think AL has that restriction. I got a regular class A when I took the test with a pintle hitched truck and trailer.
Therre is no such thing as an air brake endorsement in the states. Therefore no CDl is required solely because of air brakes.
I would recommend a truck that is 2006 or older. 2007 was a big year as far as emissions goes. For what you plan on hauling, it doesnt seem to be to hard on the truck, I would recommend an engine in the 12/13 litre range. For the hauling we do here a C12 cat will pull a tandem and pup fine yet is still good on fuel and lighter than a C15.
Good advice. You can find some 2007's that were pre-emission as well. We had an '07 Mack that was pre-emission. A friend of mine that I use to move my equipment has a KW with a C12 in a tandem with a tag trailer. The heaviest piece of iron I move is a 953C and I am impressed with the C12 as well. I have owned a C15 in the past and it was a powerhouse but for the cheaper cost and lighter weight, a C12 does the same job, something to consider.