Hello again all - I'm still on the hunt for a crawler loader for my site clearing project after the 951 I was considering went off the table. For those who raised it in the original thread, I am locked in on finding a machine with ROPS at this point, to keep things safe in the woods. I'm also really liking the idea of a 4-in-1 bucket, for the smooth grading but more for the ability to grapple brush and logs. I have lifted my budget range to $10k, and expanded the area I'm searching to a good chunk of the midwest. That has put me in a situation where I'm looking at machines that I can't easily test drive. For a couple I need to make a 95% decision before hitting the road with money in hand. Because of that I'm being pretty picky with what I can see. These aren't the only machines I'm looking closely at, but they are the ones where i have questions for people with more experience then me. Machine 1 Mid-80's Deere 455D, 5k hours, Undercarriage in really solid shape, 4-in-1 bucket. This machine checks all the boxes for what I'm looking for other than being 500+ miles away and a question I have about the video below. Specifically my question is this - the pushing the rock around here is impressive, but the machine seems to bog when it really loads while pushing, rather than breaking loose the tracks. Is that expected behavior, or should it be breaking loose without that bog down? Video is potato quality, but it should get the point across. Machine 2 This machine is a bit of a mixed bag of real positives and concerns. It's the Deere 455G and an '88, so by far the newest machine that I've considered. However, it also has 7k hours, which seems like a lot. But the undercarriage is in pretty reasonable shape. This one is close enough for me to make a half day trip and test drive without committing to a real investment in transport first. Here's my questions specifically - - The grapple bucket on this machine is interesting. Obviously this is a plus for brush and tree work, but the flat edge gives me pause with regards to digging, especially since I know I have hard-pack clay subsoil over a good chunk of this property and I'm likely to need to dig into it. How much am I sacrificing in digging ability without teeth? The bucket does have holes behind the cutting edge, are there teeth that mount into these holes that can be found at a reasonable price? - While the Sprockets/chain look reasonable, the track looks quite smooth. I'm not sure if these are road pads or just very worn (leaning toward the former) but I have concerns about grip in dirt, especially on hills. Regardless of machine I'm avoiding side slopes (working the woods with an 8n is good practice for that, gotta handle that tractor carefully on hills to avoid ending up smeared into the dirt) but these seem slicker than most. - At 7k hours, am I reaching the point where I should just expect major failures regardless of the condition the machine seems to be in? Thanks again for any help and input!
that second one is due for extensive uc work and the bucket is not what i would consider even with the grapple
I'd guess the 455C is a variant of the 450C? The offerings from some manufacturers were conversions of bulldozers. IH for example took a bulldozer, changed the shoes to three rib. They added a big rear counter weight, and a loader. Caterpillar built a different tractor for loader duty. The three rib was because loaders turn a LOT. Grousers would be pretty rough on the drive system, and the ground.
I believe just a later version of the 450, but I could be wrong there. Understood on the 3 rib vs grouser track, the pivoting is a much greater need with loaders than dozers, but this track looks to me like it may be street pad instead of a normal crawler track (or just very worn).
There were a great number of 450 crawlers locally. All the loggers used them. Fewer were equipped with loaders. Not what year ranges for 450,450a,450b,450C. I've seen all of these models. Never heard of a 455C
The tracks are double grousers worn down. Up where you Are I would want a cab badly. The 4in1 is super good for grading. The dozer blade means you don't need to dump the bucket at the end of a push. For digging on your place you need them teeth. Catch up with you later.
Cab is a nice to have, but not one I'm prioritizing. I do plenty of work here in the winter outside, just have to dress for it. I agree on the teeth - are the holes behind the cutting edge on #2's bucket there for mounting teeth? That's the part I'm trying to figure out.
Look to small for teeth and you need 2 to 4 holes. The 4in1 machine is a good one in that its also a petal steer and probably a joy stick for the bucket. The machine is a little more than half the size of the 951. You working on small trees should work well for you. Burns a lot less fuel.
I think the bucket edge on the G is not what should be there, its too thin. On the D it seems he's running the throttle up and down trying not to wreck the grass. Get a video of a push at full throttle on a push of spinning tracks, exhaust stack, and an open dipstick tube.
Also get a pictures of the 4in1 open and the teeth. There's replaceable hard cutting edges on the bottom of the dozer blade and backside of the front section. Tring to grab and pull something that's to much for it, bends them up.
In about 1985 JD went to the D series machines and the loaders became 5 machines like the larger 555/755 had always been. 350D dozer and 355D loader, 450D dozer and 455D loader. The loaders were always dedicated loaders and not converted dozers but did use the same powertrain. Similar to Cat D3 and 931 loaders. Totally different frames. Street pads and triple grouser are the same thing and what came on most smaller track loaders. Double grousers were more common on the larger track loaders starting in the late 70's or 80's I believe. Double grousers would become the standard for most track loaders including the smaller ones. I doubt the 4 in 1 has a replaceable cutting edge on the dozer portion. It's likely welded on and would need to be cut off and a new one welded on if it wore out. I think 4 in 1 buckets are a little over rated. Pushing a big rock around isn't the best example of how well a machine works but does show it works. It might be bogging down because he's trying to lift and push at the same time. It sounds like he just about stalls it at the end of the video. It's not a very clear video but looks like it has pedal steering and he keeps one hand on the loader control. It's better to decelerate when changing directions. The G machine is newer and technically a better machine but judging by all the rust and the unique style bucket, I'd guess it was used for coral cleaning. That is one of the most caustic environments to work in. Imagine when you have to work on it, and you will, having to deal with all the bolts, panels, hyd. lines and everything else rusted like the side of the cab. At least one rail/chain is shot. Looks like the other side may have been replaced as at least the sprocket looks new. The hoses on the side are just waiting to get ripped off hanging out like that, especially if you want to clear tree's and brush.
Thanks for the insight Dave, regarding pedal vs lever steer, it's looked to me like most JD's are lever steer? This one appears to be to me - - but I haven't been in the seat on one yet. Regarding Coral Cleaning, you're talking about saltwater work? That would seem surprising to me if so, this machine is located in Michigan. Not impossible that it travelled from the coast, but just seems unlikely. My guess was that a bucket like this would be a good fit for brush work or in a yard working with something that can be grappled.
Your pic. is lever steer but pedal steer was optional. Pedal steer is nicer on a loader. Not salt water, manure. I made a typo it should be corral cleaning. Talked to a commercial corral cleaner who said you can go through a set of undercarriage in a year cleaning corrals. It's really important to give a good wash after each job. Some corral cleaners have gone to rubber tire loaders or excavators to better deal with the caustic effects of manure.
Got it, that would certainly make more sense. And yeah, after having driven a Cat with pedal steer that does seem preferable to keep your hands free for the throttle and bucket.
I know the 450C is lever steer and 450G is pedal steer. I did a short google search and found the 455D to be exhibited as a pedal steer. I had thought it would Have to be a G to be pedal steer. After the switch I suspect they all are now pedal steer. Dave, I bow to your experience and wisdom. People are definitely people on both sides of the 4in1. Jacob you should do some reading up on them, and see what you think. A few things for and against. The bucket is much heavier. If you are mostly moving piles or loading trucks a standard bucket hauls more. Heavy digging a standard bucket is stronger. With a 4in1 you can pick things up, even pick up a pile of dirt or a pile of rocks. In that way you don't have to push against something to load the bucket. Best of Luck
Caustic/acidic I once asked my chemistry teacher about. At the same time I asked "Why does water, or salty water make steel rust so fast?" He muttered something about water being a great solvent. I persisted, he exploded; "Answer the question!" My Chemistry teacher was interested in the material in the textbook. He saw no value in knowledge. He was dedicated to students memorizing the textbook. I interpreted his lack of knowledge, and his refusal to learn as his not caring about my education. Years later, I encountered a teacher excited to teach. I would present a question closely related to the subject. He would respond: "I don't know, I'll try to find out." Very seldom, he failed to find an answer. I respect him beyond ALL the instructors I have ever studied under. He enjoyed the challenge of an inquisitive student! I digress! Corroded machinery is horrible! A 10 minute job without corrosion becomes a 10 hour job if corroded. Stay away from severe rust buckets!