I have a friend who is considering starting a dump truck business but he doesn’t have much of an idea of what it would take to start one or the elements of the business. Accordingly, I told him I would post here for a few opinions/info. He drove semi trucks for a bit so he has a CDL and is familiar with the trucks. However, he was wondering: What the hourly wage is for a truck (I know this differs on the truck/area, etc)? Being located in Southern California, what type of dump truck (single/double/tri axle?) is in the greatest demand and what type of wage he could expect driving the different trucks? Should he look new or used for his first truck? Brands that are preferred and/or economical besides of course Mack and Pete. He is not ruling out those two brands, but he was just curious if he should research other brands. Where would he look to increase his business/ask for business? He would be the owner/operator so there would be no employee expenses. He is currently doing remodeling and has been rather successful (read: makes good money) at it but is interested in the dump business as it is easier on his body and would still let him stay close so he can spend time with his family. Can he still expect to make a good living running a one man dump business? Any help or insight would be much appreciated. thanks PS - I searched and read the posts but did not find the exact info I was trying to find for him.
Most people say there isnt much money in dump truckin. I'm sure some guys do it and do it well and make a decent amount. But for the most part dump trucks seem to just be a necessary evil. with the initial investment, insurance, maintaining a dump truck (not cheap), fuel, etc there isnt a whole lot of $ left over.
Here,a local co.is paying O/O's $68/hr tandem,$78/hr tri axle,$84/hr quad. I've some more info,but gotta head out the door right now. Later tonight I'll post.
Thanks for the replies - I will check for your post later Jeff.
Your friend must have a lot of money to burn. LOL Last I checked around here wheelers were about $45 and tri-axles are approx. $52. Pathetic if you ask me. Between fuel, maint, tires, DOT regs etc.... it's a hard way to make a living. A self employed guy might be able to make a go of it if he works 12 hours a day, but to hire someone (legally, workers comp, taxes etc...) and expect to run the truck profitably is impossible around here. Not only that, but with spring road postings, snow and frost, you can't work around here year-round. When I drove truck for an excavation company 15 years ago they hired me and the truck to a large company to work on some huge road projects. We got paid $32.00? per hour at the time for a 14 yard wheeler. I worked from 6 am to 7 or 8 pm 5 days a week for 20 weeks or so before they did the math and realized they wern't really making anything hiring out the truck. The truck was always freighted and they always had me back-haul so we burned 2 x as much fuel as we should have. The only time we really began to feel like we were gaining was hauling pavement. Never overloaded, no back hauls, lots of sitting with engine off waiting for mix, rain or crew to move etc... Really wasn't a bad deal as far as getting screwed goes. As far as trucks, International still has a good parts network and seems to have their act together. Good luck.
Unfortunately, there's too many dump truck owners out there that will work for peanuts and ultimately drive the price down for everyone. I think a lot of these same owners don't understand business and what it takes to operate a successful business. I know the successful trucking companies are pricing on the high end and they are the ones that will be around for a long time. I don't do much dump truck work since I only have a single axle truck, but it still needs to make enough to keep it profitable. I've had customers want to negotiate price and my hourly charge is not negotiable. Right now if I can't get $60/hour, I'll let the truck sit in the driveway. I recall one story where a customer tried to beat a friend down on price and said so and so is almost $20/hour cheaper. He held firm and later found out the other guys truck was broke down and he didn't have the money to fix it. Maybe if he charged enough he could afford to repair his truck. If I was looking to start a dump truck business where I'm at, I'd probably buy a tandem truck with drop axle and 4 axle trailer. This would allow me to run 105,000 pounds which is about as big as you want to go around here. I'd probably be looking to spend around $80-100,000 for a good used truck and trailer. I'd probably lean towards Kenworth or Pete since we have a dealership and shop 30 minutes away. There's nothing wrong with the other brands, but the dealerships are a couple of hours away from me. Right now, my rates would need to be around $80-85/hr for the truck and $100-105/hr for the truck and trailer. I'd then start looking for someone who's willing to pay what I need on a long term basis and then I'd bust my tail to be the most dependable truck they've ever hired My first year would be spent trying to build up a large savings account for those more expensive breakdowns and other unknowns that we all know happen. In addition to the truck, I'd also have to build a large shop with concrete floor that I could drive the truck and trailer into for maintenance. Maintenance is key to longevity and fewer costly repairs. It could also lead to a reputation at the weigh scales that you take good care of your equipment and their time is better spent inspecting the next truck in line Equipment violations can be very expense both in terms of fines and time wasted sitting at the scales.
I forgot to mention, the company i work for we bill out our truck at i believe $85/hour.
most times you'll see excavation firms hire out their trucks when its slow so they keep their guys busy and their trucks moving,as tyler said dumps are a necessary evil and are HUGE money pits. we rent private drivers when its busy they charge $50/hr for a tandem and i believe a 6 or 7 yard single axle goes for about $40 or $45 i can't remember what a dump trailer is rite now,they go up and down all the time. a driver joked one time he basically puts 3/4 of that back into his truck through fuel,insurance,tires and such.
The price of fuel has pretty well killed trucking. I thought about becoming a o/op and when I crunched the numbers it was borderline profit if you have to put a driver on the truck then you have no profit. Now I'am going to a F-450 or F-550 truck and stay with landscaping its cheaper.
I agree with everthing above. It has become a neccessary evil for me. When I need to hire a truck it seems everyone is covered up with work and I can't get one without 2 to 3 days notice. Sometimes that much notice is though not knowing what the weather will be like. (The weatherman dosn't always know ethier) We've just about made the decision to buy a used one. But I'm fighting it. Tim
I had read a study once for O/O's of class 8 trucks.It stated that 6 out of 10 O/O's would go out of business in the first 3 years.If a operator made it past 5-6 years they considered them too have figured out how to operate in the business. That wasn't just for dumptrucks,or semi's,but for all class 8 O/O's. I wouldn't recommend anyone quit a good job too chase after being an O/O of a dumptruck.But if they decided too do it,I think it's possible too do,if they have good business sense,and can live on a meager amount of money. A guy that I know had two dumptrucks,and hauled with them exclusively.He ended up trading in one of them,and bought a semi.He now has a route he runs with the semi,but supplements his income with the other dumptruck by hauling wood chips to farms(?)(I think for bedding). We've talked many times about this subject,and his opinion is very similar to thosse already posted.By itself a dumptruck is not a good business decision,but it can be used as PART of a whole business. I can't imagine it would be worth even starting a truck for $50/hr or less.But if a person could keep a truck rolling consistantly(who can though?)I'd think,here at least,a guy could make it at $70/hr or above rates,depending on many variables.(Truck payment,cost of insurance,expected personal earnings from the business,etc.) If you need a vehicle anyways too tow other equipment around,a dumptruck seems like a natural choice.You then get the benifit of it's towing capacity,and can haul dirt with it too when needed.I think that is why there are so many around already,and why alot of us have them.
We have two very large dump truck companys that have more than six trucks. Both of them have large excavating companys also and that is what keeps the trucks rolling. They will haul for others but need them for there own buisness. I do not know of any that just do trucking for the trucking in my city. In Syracuse Riccilli is very large trucking firm and hauls all over New York with about 50 trucks to include freight, dump, lowboys, tankers, tag dumps etc. Everyone here is getting about $75 per hour and still don't feel it is a real money maker unless you have 10 or more trucks and can keep them busy with your own trucking most of the time. I just purchased a truck and did this to haul my own equipment and material. The conveinnce of not waiting for trucks to arrive and if I have to haul material away from site I save the $75 per hour. If I haul my own material in I save about $75 per hour but take the cost of opperating that truck and I am sure that profit of using my own drops alot. When I had a single axle it made complete sense to have all my material hauled in but I have a tamdem know and I can make more money using my own but to run that truck for just the purpose of trucking for others I don't think I could make any money at it. My truck was a lot less than a 125k new truck. Why would someone hire me to do trucking for them with my truck when they can hire a company that uses tri axles and can haul 22 ton.
One area I have noticed that some are able to make it,with this type of work,is end dump.We've alot of end dump owner operators in this area,and many of them are hauling coal to the mines,hauling demo,and get in on the road construction too.In the winter they're hauling road salt to the county,and state road maintanance facilities. Then you've still the tractor that could pull a flatbed,lowboy,stepdeck,whatever. One downer is the fact those end-dumps seem to flop over on their sides on occasion,if they're not careful.
Redcheetah--Tell your friend to think small--what I mean is a good size 6 wheeler.My good friend has supplied mostly sand for masons,builders and pool companies for more than 35 years. He is always busy and makes a good buck.Also, your overhead is much less than a bigger rig.I can't believe in some parts,guys are only charging $50 an hr. I figure my 6 wheeler on a delivery based on $75 an hr.Also,instead of just charging and driving hourly,have him check out some deals on say topsoil and get as much as he can for it.Wish him luck--trucking can be real cruel
I just got a bill from the rock pit and they did some hauling for me this month. They billed me $110/hr for truck and trailer which is probably the going rate around here right now.
You have to beable to do most of the maintenance on your truck so you don't have to pay a shop 90-100 dollars per hour for doing the repairs. Things you should be able to do Oil Changes Change tires you should beable to dismount and mount tires on rims Do Brake jobs Weld up the box if need be Fix the electrical problems If you buy a new truck then you don't have to worry about major repairs for atleast 3 years. The rate for a tandem axle dump truck with a 58,000lb gvw runs at 75-80 dollars per hour now from 65 dollars per hour a year ago because the price of fuel getting higher. The price of tires is getting higher and higher even recaps are getting really expensive. If you had a decent truck that was reliable and good on fuel you could try squeeze a living out of a dump truck. You also have to be the driver all the time soon as you put a driver on the truck there goes the profit. If you are a excavation contractor you pretty much need a tandem axle dump because you always need a wheelbarrow to cart material around. A truck is also needed to pull a trailer to carry a machine its why the excavation guys here run a 16 ton or smaller excavator because it can be moved on a trailer pulled by a dump truck no need for a lowbed. When you have a machine that can be moved easily more jobs you can do in a day. The way to get money with a dump is get hired on by the municipality as a contractor truck. When they are doing larger projects they may hire private contractors I know the local muni here does. Its pretty easy hauling with the muni work.
First, I'm not disputing any of what's been said about how difficult it is to make money as a trucking business. It's something I've heard many times over, from many different people. and... To me, that is not a viable business model. It may be "being your own boss", which is always nice, but for something to be a "business", it has to return something over and above what your time and effort alone is worth. What you describe is essentially either a case of doing maintenance and driving for free, so that it seems like the truck is making money, or conversely, paying yourself to drive and maintain the truck, and making no profit--mechanic's and driver's wages, but no "profit". And, believe me, I represent the voice of experience in how not to make money...
A good saying for a dump truck is you make 5 dollars and spend 12 I heard that from a mechanic the other day. With dump trucks in this area they are making say 80 dollars per hour you have to pay a driver minimum 15 dollars usually is 18-20 per hour now the truck is down to 62 dollars per hour. The price of fuel here is 4.02 a gallon a truck will easily burn 50-100 dollars a day in fuel. Say the driver accidently gouges and ruins a super single steer tire there goes 750 dollars for the day thats what a tire costs. If a driver blows a drive tire and the other tire beside it goes theres another 700 dollars. Tires are the profit killer and its real easy to ruin a tire. A basic deep lug recap 22.5 is 350 dollars you ruin one now the truck is down to 290 for the day oh have to subtract fuel down 80 bucks down to 210 the wheel holder wants his wages so the truck made a whopping profit of 66 dollars. If you own a dump truck and you can't do your own repairs don't even bother owning a dump truck. The contractor I worked for we did almost all the repairs the only thing I didn't do was engine rebuilds otherwise I did it all. You can't charge anymore per hour for the truck or the cost of the job your hauling too increases. At 80 dollars per hour now the owner of the truck has to drive the truck himself if he wants it to be profitable. If you don't have any tire failures or break downs the truck will make enough money. If its got T*Ts or Tires your going to have troubles with it.
So by "doing your own repairs" you mean keeping it "in house" or having a mechanic on staff. Not necessarily doing it yourself .
You can have a mechanic on staff paying 25 dollars per hour is cheaper than 90 dollars per hour for shop time. What I mean about wrenching on the truck yourself the owner of the truck you as the owner should beable to do work on the truck. The basic stuff like changing the oil and able to do tires. If you can't mount and dismount the tires off the rim atleast have a shop where you can take the wheels off the truck and take them to a tire shop. Pretty much all the the excavation contractors do their own wrenching the owner and the employees of the company do the work. If you have a new truck you have to watch what you do it might void the warrenty.
Ford not saying your wrong but I believe your tire analogy is. Becuase you aren't blowing punchering and killing tires daily. If you are it is time to find new driver becuase he dont know how to drive. Yes those thing happen just part of doing business. All businesses have expenses. Trick is to keep to a minimum. In house servicing is a good way of doing that. I think everyone that owns any kind od equipment should be able to do at least simple maintance things. But sometimes it is cheaper to hire that 100 an hour mechanic to come i and get you producing again than wasting time trying to fix something with wrong tools or not enough knowledge. Which can add up to more downtime=less money comming in. But like digger said And, believe me, I represent the voice of experience in how not to make money
Usually if a driver is doing damage to the truck on a regular basis he is gone no ands ifs or buts. As for tires we are carefull where you go watching out for sharp rock the one job I was on there was lots of sharp rock because it was used as road base. Had to be really carefull about wheel spin or getting a rock lodged between the duals. When ever I drove I always was carefull I never had a tire blow out. There is a difference if your working in sandy dirt for us its lots of surprises hiding under the surface. Rock broken up with a rock hammer or blasting is sharp as a razor blade. I beleive in getting a mechanic when it comes to doing the finicky work like major engine rebuilds or dealing with the fuel system. There was alot of things I did I learned as I go but I did start pulling wrenches at a early age. I have always been a grease money there was stuff the contractor made me do that I have never done before but you take it easy it goes right. Yes it can be frustrating some jobs I had to walk away for 1/2 a hour to regain my cool and get back to it. You need to have mechanical skills when you live and work in a rural area because mechanics are busy the one HD mechanic in the area is so busy he has customers waiting almost a month. The other mechanics down the road are the same. Time is money if you have to wait for a professional mechanic to fix your truck you will be waiting. All it takes is some tools and go at it. Its part of the job requirements if you want to be in the excavation business there is no such thing as a operator and thats all you do then your sitting at home your getting paid for running the machine and pitching in to repair it when it brakes. Its all non union no union BS we are all paid good wages and the owners of the companys treat you like familly.
I know you need to be self reliant. I also live in a rual area. Also know very well about surprises hidding just out of sight. I do live in the granite state. Aint called that for nothing:wink2
The profit margin with dump trucks isn't that great so more money you save doing things on your own.
You can say that about these landscapers they think there excavators and are puting machines out for peanuts TOO!!!
agreed with the landscapers.... they should stick to their trade,city awarded a equipment rental contract heh $40/hr fer a 200 size hoe,$35 fer a tandem what a joke. i think the only way in my mind to profit off a dump is to be doing short hauls with very little travel distance or idle time.
Most of the city equipment rental contracts are a scam. The city thinks they’re saving money by hiring the low bidders. What happens is one contractor will have multiple machines sitting at a jobsite all being billed out at $40 Hr with one operator to run all of them. You get paid for 8 hrs a day (even if you only worked 2) If you have 4 or 5 old machines and an operator you’re making money. The city Forman won’t hire contractors that work efficiently because it makes their crews look bad.
When you work for the dept of highways not the private contractor but the gov't doing road improvements like straigtening its pretty easy you get a good rate for the equipment. The only problem is you have to pay the operator and drivers union rate. One thing about here all the contractors play fair no under cutting there is no need for it.
I really believe that what's more important than the desicions over running new/used equipment,or having dealer/in house support for repairs,is first having good business skills,and an understanding of business expenses. Successful businesses operate with very different philosophies for success,and decide differently on what types/age equipment to run,etc.But they all have a good grasp of their money coming in,and their money going out,and what they need to make on a job. A small,one guy operation running old equipment(or brand new) can be just as successful as a big company,with a fleet of drivers and new trucks.Or,go bankrupt just as easily as them too!! If you're a really smart business person,and can manage your operating expenses,your much farther ahead than the guy who simply owns a truck,and knows how to drive it(even if he's work coming out of his ears),but has no idea what it cost him to operate his business,or where his monies going out. Doing your own maintenance,or having brand new reliable equipment(or paid for equipment),are all things that may help you contain cost,but are not more impotant than having good business skills. Being an independent dumptruck O/O,or Landscaper,or Excavator,or anything,means you need to be a business person,first and foremost.The other desicions only compliment your approach to that business,IMO.
Amen, brother Jeff...:notworthy I've always told anyone who's asked that sitting in the seat and running the equipment is the easiest part of the whole operation. And like digger, I've got my fair share of experiences on how not to make money...:Banghead Joe
Thank goodness for that..I was starting to break out into a sweat...thought I was going to have to drop about $800 a day in pay and dust off the spanners...could have even ended up getting my hands dirty Jeff...I know I have said some unkind things about your posts in the past...and you have said some even unkinder things about them too...but I think that your outburst wins the post of the month award..just ask Steve what this months prize is...and stop the drinking....we liked you where much better when you made no sense at all :bouncegri :bouncegri If you keep posting stuff like that you will become a dead boring highly respected and valued member of the forum...and well done...I'll just carry on being a mere mortal thread hijacker now.
A new car?!?! Woo-hoo!!:thumbsup ........I'll just plan on it being that!!
Hey you guys, be nice to landscapers! We're the guys that end up having to re-adjust finish grade after a dumb@$$ excavation guy screwed it up. No joke, I had to remove 60 yards of spoil last year on landscape job just to start spreading topsoil. Finish grade was met to the "on paper" specifications, but in reality the house was just too low to work with drainage wise with an irrigation system, so we were stuck with correcting it. We're in a tight knit community and quality work stands out. So far, the lack of quality excavation contractors in our area has given me a shot of hope to compete with the "big boys". We might be newcomers, but armed with some college education, some common sense, and ethical business practices, we just might be able to make it in a fairly competitive market. As far as the dump truck deal goes, we're in the same situation. Not quite busy enough right now to need a dump, but still need to move materials and equipment efficiently. Right now, we have a fairly reliable hauler for our machine and until he lets me down, we'll continue to pass the insurance, fuel, and overall operating costs off to someone else.
Hey Jeff, nice post Digger can't even bust your nuts on that one.:notworthy
Wanna bet? :wink2 Jeff, see that really wide key at the bottom of your keyboard? That's called the "space bar" (and no, that's not where astronauts go for a beer after work). Anyway, if you'd paid attention in grammar school, you'd have learned that it's used to put spaces between all the words, even where there are punctuation marks. ( It's pretty sad when I have to bust Jeff on his typing, rather than his thinking. ) Seriously, I always look forward to hearing what Jeff has to say, especially on trucking topics. I realized early on that he is one guy who does have a handle on what it takes to be in the trucking business, and I even commented to that effect. Anyone who wants to succeed in trucking would do well to pay attention to everything he says. :notworthy
Oh no...Ok widen the doors again boys:wink2
Don't worry, Squizzy. No matter how big his head gets, it'll still be pointed on top... :bouncegri
cascade scaper, I'm wondering how much do they charge to move your equipment???
Its cheap to move a 312 around it can be moved on a tag trailer thats the nice thing about the upto 18 ton machines is you really don't need a big expensive lowbed. A tractor and lowbed isn't cheap to have sitting around if you have a tag trailer beit a tilt or beaver tail they are cheap to buy it doesn't cost you big money with insurance. If your a excavation contractor you already have a tandem axle dump the truck gets used everyday. Most lowbed guys here move a machine using a 60 ton bed which is way overkill for a 12 ton machine it would be 250-300 dollars for a move. They only have 50-60 ton lowbeds because they usually haul 300 and 400 sized machines. Most contractors in general excavation use up to a 200 size machine you can move them on a tandem axle tag not legal but do able a triaxle tag will haul a 200 machine. Usually machines bigger than 200s are used on projects where they are there for more than a day so moving charges are not so bad if the machine is working on the site for a week. You wouldn't take a 230 sized machine to go dig a small basement a machine like that is a little large for residential work.
Maybe I'm not losing my hair, but rather my head is growing through the hair?!?!:wink2 You gave me far too much credit Digger, regarding the trucking.:nono I'm just like those of you that know much about how not to make money.:thumbsup (and know enough to recommend doing the opposite)