I've never owned a piece of heavy equipment before but I am pondering the idea of purchasing an old bulldozer. I own forested land that I plan on converting to farmland. My long term plan is to convert about 40 acres of forested land in to farmland. I have already started the process by having trees removed from about 7 acres of land. The trees were mostly soft wood. The next step is to pay to have the stumps removed with an excavator and then the stumps pushed to the side with a dozer. Additionally the dozer might be used with a root rake to remove the tree roots and to smooth out the newly formed field. The cost to have this work done is approximately $2500 an acre I've been told. I've noticed a number of old bull dozers for sale. I have the notion that I could purchase one that is in running condition and on my own time convert the cutover land in to fields. And that I could do this considerably cheaper than hiring the work out. My intention is to use the dozer to remove the stumps, push them to the side, and then smooth out the new field. Money is an issue seeing that I have very little of it. However I have found an Allis Chalmers HD16D that is in running condition for less than 5K that is not too far from me. If I were to buy this machine and use it to finish converting the 7 acres I have already started, then the dozer would have paid for itself. By the way the scrap value of this machine is over 3K. If I could keep the machine running and in good shape, then I could continue to use it to convert the remaining acreage in to fields. I would appreciate hearing from folks about my idea. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Al
I don't think I'd be paying an excavator with a capable dozer at my disposal. Is the ac you have in mind equipped with a tilt cylinder? If Its not, My suggestion is to keep looking. I do think your on the right track, find a dozer in the 40k pound class, hopefully with a rake, cause new rakes are not cheap, and its a diy project. Now, have you ran dozer and wrenched on heavy equipment before?
I have never ran a dozer before. I haven't wrenched on heavy equipment before, but I know a lot of folks in the area that have and do regularly. My plan is to enlist their help when maintenance and or repairs are needed. The blade does tilt. Here is the ad: http://maine.craigslist.org/hvo/4563911874.html . Thanks for your response.
For that money your not going to do any better... My suggestion is to Hire a proficient dozer hand to operate it and watch and learn from him as much as you can to get started. Dozers are not that hard to learn to operate, but its best to have someone else there that can so they can provide insight when necessary. Also since your doing clearing work, that roof looks to be nothing more than a sunshade when it comes to fops structures. Do you life insurance agent a favor and find something like this http://www.pierceengineering.com.au/machierymod/dozer.jpg
I'm going to pay someone to look the dozer over for me, and I'm waiting to hear from the seller if he'll hold it for me until then. Your suggestion to hire someone to initially operate the dozer is an excellent idea. Since the trees are gone I'm not sure why such an elaborate roof is needed. Maybe you could enlighten me. Thanks again for your response.
Yair . . . stumpjumper83 . Bloody hell! You had me all exited for a minute. I looked at your link and thought crikey, those blokes over there are larn'in, if they'da hung a tree-pusher offa the blade that would look almost like an Aussie rig . . . and then I looked at the URL. (laughing) Alfred Over here we pay that sort of money for a lawn-mower, I don't see how you could go wrong . . . it would be worth twice the price though with rippers. In their day the Sixteens were one of the best machines around. It may be difficult to find some-one these days who can/will operate a stick shift . . . if you acquire it make sure the operator knows never to leave the machine idling with the clutch disengaged. That is to say, if you jump off for a few minutes to check pegs or whatever the transmission should be shifted to neutral and the hand clutch reengaged . . . much the same as you don't (or shouldn't) wait in traffic in your pickup with foot on the clutch. Cheers.
We'll do. Thank you.
Well your original post said you wanted to clear 40 acres and only 7 were already cut. that leaves a fair bit still upright. And yes your sunshade will do just fine for stumping, but as soon as you start pushing on standing ones is when you really should have a decent cage. I've been in the seat when a baseball bat size chunk fell 70' onto the roof of my deere 550g, let me tell you this, it wakes you up. Oh, and FOPS stands for Falling Object Protective Structure scenario 1. man pinned in excavator cab, usually not a fops structure http://metronewsca.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/01f24cc94013bee6af2f848379db.jpeg?w=618&h=408&crop=1 scenario 2. Tree falls on a large skidder, cab is damaged, operator may be ok, possible minor injuries, but the cab is still holding the tree up which hit hard enough to break in 2, and either pop the far tire or bust the front axle on the skidder. http://customproductsinc.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/skidder-versus-tree.jpg Maybe scrubs can find a good pic or video, but those tree canopies are meant to just need a touchup on the paint after having a tree dropped on them. The second one might have left a dent or two, that was a good piece of timber. But the operator should only need new shorts. Again the idea isn't to plow thru the forest without a care, its to try to keep you alive when the top busts out and doubles back over on top of you, or a decent limb falls down. This is the test video, dropping 500 pounds from 17' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfekDvbQXuQ
Sounds like a good plan . The Allis 16 looks pretty good in the photos . Probably early to mid 1960's machine . It's about the perfect size dozer for that job . Just be careful when operating as it becomes somewhat addictive and that's all you will want to do from then on . I have a service manual for that tractor . Under carriage can be converted to D7 Cat if you decide to keep it . You know Alfred ....... Only reason that 16 is still for sale is it's a little further than I care to drag one home . Best of luck with the project & finding a dozer .
Thank you for the photos and video. I now have a new appreciation for what a good sturdy cab can do for you. My plan calls for cutting down the remaining trees with a chain saw and skidding them out before removing the stumps. It never occurred to me that you could push the tree down with the Allis 16. It's nice to know that I'll have that option if I am fortunate enough to purchase the 16. And there is no question that I'll now be thinking about modifying the cab.
Thanks for the info and thanks for not buying the 16 out from underneath me!
Yeah Alfred , have a mechanic / operator buddy go with you to look at the dozer and run it for a few hours if possible . That's nice looking country side in the background on the craigslist photos of the Allis 16 , Heck.... looks like south Indiana .
Yair . . . Alfred . A nicely set up HD16 pushing trees here . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYF4NqbJ1_I (you are better off watching it without sound) The operator is obviously learning but he tipped the trees okay and didn't have to rip them . . . much larger trees than that can be pushed with a three way rip. As others have mentioned if you start pushing trees you need a decent "canopy" (as we call them here) that one on the tractor shown is pretty standard over here. Cheers
That's a pretty mean looking dozer. One thing I think I noticed is that the stumps come out of the ground as well. If that is typical then I can see the advantage of clearing trees by pushing them down as opposed to cutting them down with a chainsaw. Great video. Thanks!
First of all, welcome to the Forums Alfred!:drinkup Alfred I think we need to take a moment, slow down and go through some basics. First of all clearing large trees takes experience as it's dangerous, even for the veterans. Yes it is easier to remove the whole tree, stump and all while it's standing. The correct function of weight, horsepower and most importantly operating experience is the key to successful clearing. Since you haven't ran a dozer before, starting out with that size of dozer clearing trees is not the best "baptism by fire". If you choose to go with this machine or another machine of this size or even smaller, take some time to learn how the machine operates and what it's capable of doing. I would suggest learning to operate it on flat ground, doing light grading and dozing in order to get to know the tractor. Then if you have some stumps to clear, go after them. Save the larger tree clearing for when you are comfortable operating the machine and have many hours in the seat. Even then, extreme care must be taken, calculating each move. I'll reiterate as it's already been stated - proper cab protection is a must as pushing trees is very unpredictable and then there are the widow makers to contend with. I am sure other members have more advice to chime in on this aspect.
Very well said. Thank you. I really do hope getting this machine becomes a reality. There are innumerable small projects that would be great to start out with. Having a dozer of this size and capability would be like having the ultimate tool for the kinds of things that I need to do.
If you're getting some value out of the logs, and you have time to work on this at your own pace (can you afford the depreciation on the Allis?), it might make sense to cut the trees and leave the big stumps a few years to soften up, especially if you can graze the area to keep it from growing over in brush.
Up to a point I can work at this at my own pace. I am under some time constraints though. I'd like to plant grain as soon as possible on some of the initially cleared land. That would require that stumps are removed and a cover crop (or grain depending on soil conditions) are planted by fall. After the initial planting I could gradually clear as you suggest on a yearly basis until the 40 acres are finished, possibly using grazing animals to keep brush from growing and letting time as you also suggested to soften the stumps. "can you afford the depreciation on the Allis?" - I know what depreciation is but I am not sure what you mean by this.
A lot depends on what kind of timber you have regarding pushing the trees over. Here in eastern Oregon, it's mostly lodgepole pine, tamarack, red fir and white fir with some Ponderosa pine tossed in none of which really have a tap root, just roots spread out under the surface making a large root ball when they come out. My favorite way is to fall the bigger trees first leaving about a 4' tall stump, skid the trees out and then push the stumps out. Bigger stumps (1 1/2' and larger) often require a bit of digging with a backhoe before they can be pushed bun anything smaller than that I can usually get with an old D47U, the only dozed I have. A good solid canopy is absolutely needed, the one on that dozer you're looking at is really no more than a sun shade in my opinion.
Thanks for the response. I have mostly soft wood as you do; tamarack, spruce and fir, and white pine. Nothing very big either, except for a few white pine and some old pasture spruce.
Joke, there is no depreciation left. A bigger cost would be if the scrap price falls, it's a real roller coaster watching the value of my fleet go up and down based on what China is paying for iron. Cutting the timber and dozing the stumps is safer than pushing over trees, but you'll be pushing brush in any case, so look up some of the threads on here about branches coming into the cab and you may decide to armor that thing even if you cut all the logs first.
Hope the 16 checks out good and you get it bought . As others have mentioned clearing can be dangerous . Big trees look ominous but to be honest I have had more close calls with small scrub , could be a broken sapling coming at you like a spear / punji stick . Grape vines stretch & snap back at ya , or pull another tree in an unexpected direction . Clearing some scrub with my 16 http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/td25c/media/sharpenkg005_zpsbce374be.mp4.html?sort=3&o=21
You can get your machine into binds doing this sort of work, get it in the wrong position you can roll a root mass under the blade and flip a tractor or at least lock it in position where you cannot use it until help arrives, another bad case is debris under rails or in rails and you go to back off a hanging snag only to roll the rail off, been there done that and with a hanger it becomes dicey as to repairs or await another to finish the job for safety. Drop a top on a unprepped machine that is not enough canopy and you can do serious sheet metal or engine damage, worst case drop a snag in your own lap.
I get it. Yes the price of scrap does seem to play in to a lot of my decision making lately.
What a great video - Thanks!
Thought it might give you some perspective of what it looks like from the operators seat . My 16 has the factory ROPS cab & sweeps . Still have to be carful as I don't have any side screens or engine enclosures .
I cut all the stumps low when cutting timber that is going to be cleared. Any tree that can be pushed over from a four foot stump can also be rooted and pushed. No sense wasting the best part of the log. A good canopy is a must and care is still required.
I'm sorry to say that I lost out on the Allis Chalmers HD16D. Apparently there was someone ahead of me that ended up buying the HD16. I want to thank everyone who commented on my post. Everyone that commented was helpful and I so much appreciated your input. What a great resource this is. I've since identified a couple of new prospective dozer-candidates and now the excitement is starting to creep in again. I plan to start a new post soon asking for your input on these new "old" dozers. Thanks again!