Not sure if this is the right place for this question, but I've looked all over the web and need some help... I recently inherited several pieces heavy equipment items from a relative who passed away and I'm looking to understand how to accurately price and sell them since I have no experience with the industry. When you are looking for equipment to purchase or sell, how would you go about finding it's value and listing it for sale? I've obtained offers from locals, but I can't tell if they are just trying to rip me off because I don't know what I'm doing. Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
If you know what to look for to compare condition, then the online auction site results will get you fairly close, auctiontime, bigiron, purplewave etc. Posting pics on here would be an easier way if you don't know how to compare the condition, don't know what parts to look at. What kind of machines? A lot different things to look at for a log skidder vs a bulldozer or whatever.
Your best route is probably contacting an auction site such as the ones Delmer listed and let them handle the sale. I'm sure you have something similar on your side of the border. That way when its done, its done. If you can't demonstrate the equipment, how are you going to sell it? Condition greatly influences price, who is going to describe the condition to the buyer?
The auction site is great if you have a 10-20 year old Cat in a good market, like Houston. If these machines are mostly going to be under $5k each, and in a remote location, then they're going to sell local, and the auction site would be much less helpful. Obviously, I'm speculating, not much info to go on yet.
If you have a good dealer nearby they may be able to help with a value and/or help you sell them on commission. It costs you a bit but saves you a lot of hassle. Did your relative have any friends in the industry that could help you? Knowing a general value is one thing but not knowing equipment is another and some (lots) buyers/scammers are very convincing at pointing out everything possible that may or may not be wrong. Then they offer to take it off your hands for way less that it's actual worth. If you have service records helps greatly and also if you're not in a hurry to sell it.
You need to first know what you have for equipment. Make, model year, estimated hours and condition. For a quick idea of what its worth, search machinery trader and you'll see what individuals and dealerships are asking for similar equipment as a selling price. Purplewave and ritchie bros post auction results, this will give you idea of retail auction prices. Condition makes a big difference on value. Location also makes a difference. And how specialized the equipment is. Everyone from farmers to landscapers to homeowners buy skidloaders. Not everyone is looking for a hot asphalt roller. If you had pictures of the equipment and posted them here, you'd get a pretty good price valuation, that doesn't cost you anything, from guys with years of experience, and with no $$$ reason to lie to you. Of course that advise is going to also be worth what your paying for it.
Post some pictures of the equipment
Orphan brands will bring in general considerably less than still in production Name Brands. Photos, if they run or not, last considered time used, any maintenance sheets or parts purchase receipts against hours on machine all are helpful. A Local dealer or independent mechanic will be a good source for aid in price up.
I agree. EquipEval10 give us a list of what you have and some pics to go along to show the condition, then we can steer you in the right direction. The online used equipment world is full of spam...
Auction is the way to go they will get them to there site or sell them at yours you don't have to answer any questions from prospective buyers and market sets the price but its possible you get less money than you have been offered Most equipment auctions also have appraisers that can give you an idea what they are worth
If the equipment is good shape and you're not in a hurry to sell, auctions aren't the best idea. Auction companies a lot of times tell you what you want to hear with no guarantee's. Just look on this forum, a lot of people think only junk sells at auctions. Ritchie Bros. will sometimes give a guaranteed minimum if you have at least 5 major pieces but with the commissions auctions charge, you might end up ahead selling it through a dealer on commission. I guess the first thing is some pics. and descriptions of the equipment. You never know, a member(s) on here could be interested.
See this is what I was thinking too and I appreciate the guidance on "if I'm not in a hurry" because I'm not. So let's assume I don't go the auction route, what then, the dealer route you suggested? Can anything good come from general listings on other sites? Thank again!
Sounds like a seamless process, what are normal auction commissions like?
Here are some of the pics I could gather from the contractors we had: Case 580 Super L backhoe Ditchwitch? John Deere 1025R
Wow. The OPis from Canada. That 580 case is in Texas (billboard is for a Texas insurance company). Aside from that, a Google search found the picture they stole. The Ditchwitch is in the Midwest Corn belt (very mature stalks typical of a late Midwest harvest season). Corn in Texas is harvested in summer, blue skies, still partly green since the dry climate causes the grain to dry down fast. The Deere is up north, Midwest to Northeast. They don't use split rail fence in Texas. They don't have the wood for it. You see a lot of old well casing/drill pipe fences because the material is cheap and they last forever. I'm with CM, lots of spam in used equipment world.
Found the ditch witch JT25 stolen pic too Listing says Boulder, CO. I'm surprised by that as I didn't remember there being much corn grown in that area, but there is a lot of irrigated ground on the front range so anything is possible I suppose.
A little bit of basic house keeping is in order. First item is that you are going to be in process of liquidating assets. You have to identify and define the markets that you have access to. The franchised dealers that may sell on commission are going to market their stuff first and yours only if a customer comes by that happens to need what you have. You might thing of this market as a retail market because there is no defined sell date. The auctions are a secondary market and are always a liquidation market. The day of the auction, the machine sells unless you put a reserve value that must be exceeded by bidders. Most of the auctions have gone to no reserves now so if no one wants the item, it may sell for next to nothing. Private sales are also liquidations but you have a direct contact with the seller and have to handle all the functions of the sale. You have to do your research first on finding the liquidation market ranges that each piece might bring. Then you have to advertise it and deal with the potential buyers who will want to negotiate price. Something like the backhoe you show will have a lot of negotiations if priced high and you will have to have some thick skin in selling at a high rate. You see plenty of machines being offered on Craigs List, Ebay, Equipment Trader and so on. Some other home work you will have to do is make a full list of each piece as suggest above. Second item is to make sure that each item is paid for. There should be paper somewhere showing any encumbrances on the fleet. Selling a machine and then finding out of an existing loan balance or a lien against all the iron would leave a buyer in a very bad mood and you in possible legal jeopardy. There should be a bill of sale somewhere for each piece. As for values, all the above is good advise. You might also check to see if there was any insurance that might have replacement costs. Another place to check is with the banker who financed the iron to start with. They might have access to people who could provide you with a desk top assessment of what you have. If you have not been part of the industry, I would generally advise you to work with a professional. That might mean a consignment to a local dealer that may or may not have a franchise with a major manufacturer. I do have a short book on Amazon that explains some of the process that one goes through to buy and sell equipment. You can preview it on the following link. Good Luck! http://www.amazon.com/dp/B073ZXGQNJ
Maybe the OP had all this inherited equipment shipped all over the US and then moved to Canada from Tasmania. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09...building-skills-through-tafe-program/12620358 WOW
Good grief Colson are you and Boone employed by the FBI ?
I don't understand this thread. What is the OP trying to do (really)?
Super sleuths in the construction business (hats off to you all)! Okay friends, coming semi-clean, this was a research study I needed to conduct to obtain more info about the construction equipment resale market without directly interviewing people. Gaining more information about the market, selling, how experts assess value, etc. I hope you all don't see this as spam or a waste of time, and I appreciate all the information.
Stock pics. taken from the internet? Something is definitely askew. OP needs to clarify a few things. Forget the FBI, when you've got Colson and Boone Equipment Investigators on the case. Who knew there'd be a "who-done-it" on the forum. What's wrong with interviewing people to do research and what do you mean coming semi-clean? Much better to explain what you're looking for and why instead of trying to deceive people. There are top notch investigators on this forum as you've found out. Come 100% clean or we'll find you.
I can't speak for Boone as I don't know how he found his source, but I just used Google and searched for the insurance agent on the billboard from the Case 580 pic. Once I had the region (Ft. Worth area), I searched for 580 case in that region and bam, found the picture. The ditch witch was easier as there aren't 1000's of them in existence. Search for that model ditch witch and the pic from Machinery Trader pops up. The whole thread screamed scam/spam as @CM1995 mentioned earlier, and the pics shared didn't make sense either. A $20,000 backhoe with equipment lined up behind it, a $125,000 directional boring machine on a job, and a $10,000 sub-compact tractor? My B.S. meter pegged out and my curiosity led me to Google.
You're right, and to be honest I'm really impressed. Is there a need to be this diligent because of scams? We've conducted 7 interview thus far with individuals ranging from small businesses to mid-size brokers. The goal was not to deceive, and I can see where you're coming from. That being said, this was the closest to observational research we could do thanks for COVID. 100% Clean: We are creating a sales/listing/fair market value assessment tool for used heavy equipment.
Yes, there is a need to be this diligent. Just speaking from my relatively minimal amount of searching around for a backhoe, prior to buying one, I found anecdotally, 70% of the backhoes on Craigslist to be fake ads. Not sure why. This also feels vaguely familiar, as in other brand new forum members coming to ask kind of similar questions... If the goal is an AI based tool to value equipment I think you'll either find there are many too many variables or your tool will be wrong, a lot, or both. You can't value these machines from pictures on the internet. Also, between @colson04 and @boone this is one of the greatest threads I've read. Thank you.
"I found anecdotally, 70% of the backhoes on Craigslist to be fake ads. Not sure why." 3 of the folks we spoke to in interviews said that too. They stated that they moved from Craiglist to Facebook Marketplace since "they seem to do better at finding scams and removing the listings." This won't be AI based (at least not from the beginning) however, it's interesting that other new people ask these same questions. Do you have example of tools you've used or use that are currently wrong?
I'm not a heavy equipment buyer, really, so nope. But again, your interviewing above, I think, shows that while I guess I misspoke to some extent to say that "you can't value these machines from pictures on the internet" because the members here can certainly lead you in a good direction, I think you'll really struggle to put a decision tree in place to provide accurate values for machines that are almost always looked at and used, in person, prior to purchase.
Sign up on Ritchie Bros. and you can see what machines have sold for at auction. Machinery Trader and looking on dealer websites will tell you what dealers and private sellers are asking for price. Lots of variables so nothing is very exact.
Thanks for that, we found a way to get data from 30+ auction sites to give more of a well-rounded view of how items have sold. Do you think that's valuable (having more than 1 example for sales)? I agree with you totally on the variables. Would you ever buy a piece of equipment without physically meeting the seller and/or inspecting the equipment? Interested to hear your thoughts about if you'd ever feel comfortable with that situation. Thanks again for the commentary here.
Yes! The goal in our mind would be to give an upper and lower price range, based on the main variables you and others use to estimate value (knowing that a physical inspection is the only way to get really accurate data). That being said, the goal of this is mostly help the buyer/seller land on a reasonable price. It will certainly be a struggle, no doubt about it. Besides hours, equipment age, and make/model... what variable are most important for you when you purchase (assuming you have not had a physical inspection)?
Maintainence and repair history documentation goes a long way. A well maintained higher hour machine is better than a neglected low hour machine. People that buy without inspecting in person are asking for problems.
Makes sense, I was reading a post here yesterday in which someone asked something like "where to find PM reports to be followed for routine maintenance" and the main guidance back was to read the operation manual and create your own. Is this something that people normally do? I assume it would dramatically help the resale value.
Larger operations do for sure and the better small ones. It can be a challenge trying to remember what all has been done on numerous machines over their ownership. It also helps with resale. I don't think it's uncommon for mechanics or service people to make notes in the manual or in maintainence records of updates or changes in part numbers. I think the biggest thing most people want is good value for their money, whether it's a new, used or fixer upper machine. There have been a few threads on machines that were problematic from the the get go to let others know to avoid them.
As @Welder Dave said, maintenance records can have a big impact on sales price. Also, some equipment models come with many different options configurations that can greatly influence cost. In regards to your question about buying sight unseen, no, I personally won't. I did buy a dump truck through an auction, but I saw the truck in person prior to the sale date and I knew it had transmission problems when I bought it. The other equipment I own I got to run prior to purchasing and I knew prior history on it.
I can't reveal my secrets... Just kidding. I just right clicked on the profile picture and there's an option to search google images. About the third link that came up was about an immigrant who'd moved from Brazil to Tasmania. Pretty similar to what Colson did. Not a good way to gain trust with the members here. But guess you figured that out. I wish there was a blue book for equipment, but like said, too many variables. I have a hard enough time making a good purchase when I see it, much less sight unseen.
If you are trying to make a tool that provides value opinion, you are way behind some other players. I maintain that you might be able to determine a range but, that isn't an appraisal that can be used for anything. As you have seen above, an appraisal includes a whole lot of data and then experience in interpreting it and then developing an opinion that can withstand challenge. Most sellers will not provide maintenance history for legal and ethical reasons. In most cases the machines have to represent themselves. What you see is what you get. It is up to the buyer to determine the facts and act in their own best interest.
"you are way behind some other players." Who are the other players you are talking about? I'd like to see what they have to offer and how their tools are used. That would help us know how to fit into the market (or not). "Most sellers will not provide maintenance history for legal and ethical reasons." What would be the ethical reason to not provide vehicle maintenance records? Seems like providing them would be quite ethical since it could prevent an accident or issue for the potential buyer. Also from that standpoint, I can see how this could provide a legal issue. Thanks for the feedback here, I value your opinion. If you have some sources to provide please do!
No worries at all, and I appreciate you calling me on it. I've been under the incorrect impression that this industry was a bit less tech saavy, you've certainly cut me down to size with that terrible assumption. You have no idea how important this particular moment is for me and my team... it's nice to be proven wrong. To your other statements, yes I've heard something similar to "I wish there was a blue book for equipment" and the goal is to come as close as possible. Honestly, tell me more about these variables seen or unseen. What isn't in the heavy equipment world today that would really help? What does Blue Book have that you don't have today?
Yes, this is what 7 out of 7 people have told us thus far. I think building this into our assumptions as a "must" is a good choice for the time being. Is there anything that would make the meeting/interaction between buyer/seller better? What does a good interaction look like? Thank you again!
There are companies here that run pay of information sites that send me their propaganda and some updates. I don't recall their names right now as my brain cells are old and tired. Equipment Watch I think is the one that keeps sending me materials lately telling how to handle my business. Green Guide used to brag that they could appraise any machine sight unseen. There were or are some others that I stopped paying attention to a long time ago. As far as ethical reasons go, consider a sales agent having a history report showing a trend in oil sample reports and there was one of two bad reports. Do they reveal those or hide them? Most won't even acknowledge that any history exists. Let's say someone purchases a wheel loader and a month after the sale the boom breaks and drops the bucket on someone. Who is liable? Maybe there was a report of an engine rebuild at a certain point shortly before a sale. Was it done by a competent mechanic or was it just a throw together to get a machine sold? What if the machine has 15,000 hours of use, would a maintenance history make any difference? Used equipment is almost always sold "As Is, Where Is with all obvious and inherent deft." Any warranties provided are usually short term and a lot of times verbal. This industry has always been buyer beware.
It's not ethical to say a machine or components of a machine are in good condition when in fact the seller knows they aren't. In that case it's better to say nothing and is buyer beware. However, having a complete service history shows pride of ownership and how the machine was cared for. It could certainly justify a higher price. Some companies sell off machines when they reach a certain age or number of hours. I've seen many machines at RB auctions that list additional info available in the office. This includes maintainence records, repairs, receipts, manuals, etc. The Cat and JD dealers here (probably others too) will do thorough inspections to help potential buyers. It helps answer questions like how come the 7 year old machine is $5000 more expensive than the 5 year old machine with less hours. You have 2 similar machines and one has maintainence records and the other doesn't. I don't think most potential buyers would dismiss the service history or an inspection report from a dealer. Hoses and other things can fail on a brand new machine. That a risk anyone operating a machine takes. I saw an original D10 sell at auction and it was completely rebuilt by the company selling it. They had a custom plaque made that was attached to the side of the cab, "Proudly Rebuilt by Gregg River Resources". All the receipts and work done was available for viewing and went to the high bidder. I doubt all the documentation would result in a lower price.
I say buzz off. You lied to us initially. And I hope whatever thing you're trying to produce, fails.
That's a little harsh.
Perhaps. But I got a little frustrated reading this thread, thinking we could help this person out. Then realize she's just using us.
I think sometimes you have to give the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they thought know one would answer a research question?
From your first post it appears ethics is not your strong suit. Look at Machinery Pete on the ag equipment side. The man has been doing this for at least a decade.
I agree with skata. “She” tried to deceive us with the pics of machines, the initial purpose of her post, even her profile pic and then backhandedly insults us. “She” tried to catfish us.
Your method was way faster than mine. Thank you for sharing a feature I didn't know existed.
This is very informative, thank you. It sounds like both Equipment Watch and Green Guide didn't leave a very good impression. I'm familiar with both of them, specifically Equipment Watch which we learned about early on but, as you've stated, didn't meet the need of several people we interviewed for various reasons. Maybe a stupid question at this point, but is there something that could be provided to help you in the search for new equipment? Is it the fact that they charging for a service, that the service isn't meeting your needs, or both? I'm totally following you now on the 2nd paragraph. Those are really good questions and I think you've pointed out a main concern/issue. It sounds like there are people standing between the buyer and seller. These folks (salepersons let's say) have their own agenda to sell it "as is" to make their commission regardless of the ethics used. From that perspective, the potential buyer need to be equipped with some sort of appraisal skill for the item they are buying. Does that sound right?
Thank you, this is certainly the case but I can understand why many folks on here feel negatively. All the information is helpful nonetheless.
I looked up Machinery Pete thanks for the recommendation. What make you suggest his site as opposed to others?
How many are in your group and do any of them have much experience with heavy equipment? I remember probably 25 years ago there was a new outfit that set up shop across from Ritchie Bros. auction site. They claimed to be experts in sales and appraisals of equipment and had some used machines, mostly bought from across the street. Their prices on used equipment were higher than major dealers. They touted all this experience, their machines were inspected and better than gambling on machines at the auction, etc. They forgot to consider the customers aren't stupid. When a customer see's a machine on their lot a week after it sold at the auction with a 60%+ mark up raises some questions. Yeah, it's normal to mark up auction machines but the customer could have inspected the machine at the auction and repaired any issues for less than what these "experts" were charging. Inspection reports are nice but not when your customer realizes they're being charged 25K for them. Remember a D6 that sold at RB for $40,000. Saw it a week later across the street. Looked in the Equipment Trader, where they had a full page ad, and it was listed for $69,000. They didn't even bother taking the construction companies stickers off it. They say location is everything in real estate. Setting up shop across from RB's largest site in N. America maybe isn't the best idea for selling machines you bought there. Might be OK for appraisals/inspections but they charged a lot for those too. They were only there about 1 year and a half at the most. All their expertise and then didn't consider their customers likely attended the auctions too.
"They forgot to consider the customers aren't stupid." There are 4 of us in the core team and 1 or 2 part-time in-industry advisors (1 small business which has been operating for 7 year and 1 broker who's been in the business for about 10 years). To me, that sounds like a classic "I don't know my customer or their needs" scenario. From our perspective, the goal is solely to provide quality and transparent data about the equipment and to try to connect buyers and sellers. What I've seen thus far is exactly what you are describing and it's nice to have the validation from another source. We are not going to get into the buy/sell/rent business at all because we are not experts. I think there's a way to connect many dots to help people and businesses make better decisions but for now... we are still trying to understand the dots i.e. the needs of customers. Thanks again.
I'm with skata and terex herder, but my opinions of this person are unprintable. Someone died and left you equipment- I'm all over helping someone like that out. You're doing research and want some answers? You aren't the first one to show up here and the community helped with some quick answers. You lie about inheritance issues all in the name of "business" interests? Sorry, I just lumped you in with telemarketers, TV preachers asking for $$$ and people who torture puppies for fun, and a couple of those categories outrank you. I guess I was brought up different- that my word was one of the few things I have that was worth anything. You lie online, you'll lie in business, you'll lie in court, you'll lie to your kids and you'll lie to your family. At least tell us your real business name so we can avoid you like the plague. If you were my employee you'd be my ex employee.
Me reading crane operator’s post
"She" lol
Was it mentioned that "her" profile pic is fake too?
Yes, Boone pointed that out with a link to that article
And three pages later they're still conversing with this person's stolen identity.
My suggestion, going forward, to those of you who feel put off by EquipEval's initial deception, is to exercise your right to not be of any further help. I completely understand and agree with how offensive it is to feel used by somebody who pretends to be something that they are not. On the other hand, I give some credit to EquipEval for coming *mostly* clean when challenged. Some people would have run away and hidden. (There are things I can see in the Admin Control Panel that lead me to believe there's more to be shared or clarified.) One of the things I've always liked about HEF is that this community represents a vast reservoir of knowledge--ground level knowledge--that *can* be accessible to those with the wisdom to recognize it. To EquipEval, I recognize it as a compliment that you sought to access our input, but my suggestion would be that being completely straightforward from here on out will get you optimal results.