What do you guys use to refuel your equipment. I use one if those tool box combo fuel tanks to fuel my skid steer and excavator. It has a 91 gallon tank in it and I am constantly filling it up again. I need something bigger. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks
Fuel tanks Well if you go over 85 gallon ? with a pickup then you need to placard it for HazMat. I'm pretty sure that was the limit. Ask your fuel company about solutions . Some have mobile fuel tank trailers you can haul . Then your getting into CDL requirements. All kinds of new EPA rules out there now, for onsite fuel storage. Then there is the vulnerability of theft , .....
I'm no expert, but I thought down here you could carry up to 119 gallons. Most of the "L" shaped transfer tanks around here are the 105 gallon variety. There used to be a guy around here that had a 300+/- gallon tank in the back of a one-ton dually. He provided fueling and greasing service to GC's that may only have a piece or two on a commercial site. I don't think he had any signage - maybe he was small enough to fly under the radar.
It might be cost efficient to talk to your local fuel companies to see if they would do off road service. Here in Connecticut, we use company called Taylor oil company, and they specialize in off road fueling in both large and small gallonage. I believe they are as far south as Baltimore. Hope this helps
well you have to have a plackard 1903 flamable liquids on any tank carying bulk fuel
I use that truck around my shop. It does not go over the road so I am fine with the HazMat placards. I fill it with a small tank under 85 or whatever the HazMat regs are. The gas station is under 3 miles from my shop but even that close you can get pulled. asking my fuel company is a good thought. Thanks
Well in that case I must have miss interperated the regs. I thought I was ok with my small 36 gallon tank. Time to get this right.
in colorado you can haul over 110 gallons or so with a placard and a cdl. most of the gas patch guys haul at least 2 100 gallon tanks. p.s i would not even worry about a 40 gl tank
That makes me feel better. Does anybody know where I can find the regs of hauling diesel that is not completely complicated?
i have an 80 gallon tank in my truck....i find it barely big enough
I know what you mean I fill my 91 gallon tank with a 36 gallon tank what a pain that is.
In NY, it's 300lbs or more of hazardous material that must be placarded, below that does not need to be placarded. I don't know what that equals in gallons,
7.3 pounds per gallon 41.09589 gallons
Well one gallon of diesel weighs about 7.15 pounds (found it online) so somewhere under 42 gallons is ok. Do you know where you can find this for other states?
We have a 1000 gal tank that a fuel supply company fills for us on one of our yards, from there the foremen have 80 gal tanks in the service bodies that they use to fill their equipment with. We have never ran into any trouble with the "Law". We also have a 250 gal tank mounted on a small trailer one crew fills out of the 1000 gal tank to take to their jobsite 30 miles away. They fill their truck tank with the 250 gal. No placards on anything:beatsmeI know it is only a matter of time and/or accident
Do you have any idea of what the NC law on transporting fuel is and what has to be placarded?
I have a 100 gallon tank in my truck, We have a 1000 gallon tank at the shop and a 500 gallon tank that is on skids for a jobsite tank. I've just put the 500 gallon tank on the trailer, pull it to get filled and then leave it at the jobsite. I've never had a problem with it in the past.
Well I guess my 91 gallon is ok. Do you pull the 500 gallon tank full?
The small trailer is 550 gal, not really legal but I get by with it because it's a farming area and all the farmers have one. The other trailer is a 5200 gal we only take to large jobs if it is secure enough otherwise it's at the shop for storage.
I like that 550 trailer tank. Did you make that or buy it? That would have to be placarded. I have very little knowledge on placarding and any info on how you get this HazMat placard would be great.
I built the trailer but bought the tank, like I mentioned it's not really legal. Talk to any fuel distributor about the placards, If you're just going to use diesel a 1993 sticker will do, that's what I used, if you look close you can see it on the back and side. My fuel guy gives them to his customers
So you dont need to apply for the sticker you just buy it?
Google your state DOT and see if they have their regs posted. One of our local body upfitters had an open house and the NY DOT cops were there, I asked about the placarding
I will try to google the NC Dot and see what comes up.
In addition to placards Illinios requires a sticker warning users not to use off road fuel in on-road vehicles. That sticker will save a $500 fine. It definatley pays to know the rules if ya play the game.:usa
How do you get a placard?
HAZMAT Placards You can find anything you've ever dreamed of on Google
All you have to do to get the placards is simply buy them and slap them on your tank. Plenty of online vendors plus most all truck stops sell them. Your local fuel delivery company may sell them as well. Here a nice little explanation of laws governing transportation of fuels, and it's not in "lawyer language" either, just the basics. NTSP Gas and Diesel Transportation Hope this helps. Also, note that fuel in containers above 119 gallons requires a CDL with HazMat endorsement. If you stay under the radar you might get away without the CDL, Hazmat, and related shipping documents. If you get caught, you will probably wish you would have carried it in 5 gallon jugs.
Around here you can have it delivered for the same price as the station, not hardly worth hauling it unless you get a helluva discount on bulk fuel
On the Hazmat test I took in FL, it states anything over 500 gallons must be placarded and the driver must have a Hazmat endorsement. If DOT pull you over and they find that tank and trailer meet Hazmat requirements and you aren't properly licensed, they have a slew of tickets waiting.
While were sorta on the subject.... Where is the best place to buy a L shaped tank for a pickup? I'm looking to buy one with a 12v pump in the 100 gallon range.
Northern Hydraulics has them, alos try Gemplers. Both offer a few different applications.
I carry a 115 gallon square tank in my work truck, for the most part this can take care of my fueling needs when I'm working alone. Just have to make sure to top off each machine each night, no matter how much you used it. When we are stripping quarries it works best to have the fuel man come out an fill us up or we do have a few pull behind tanks. Our quarries each have a 500 to 1000 gallon tank that they pull with them when they are done, move it empty and the fuel man fills it up when its at the quarry. Trbo Pic of the tan in my pick up
there is a federal reg. about the 119 gal. limit. when we took our haz-mat classes we we were instructed that it is the CAPACITY of 120 gallons whether empty or full that is the threshold for placarding. we were told this could even be applied to old tanks going to the scrap yard as we used to remove a few in the course of a year. never ran into a dot check while hauling them but carrying the placard was mandated by the company and his insurer. bill
Try a farm supply store, such as Big R or a Tractor Supply Store. Northern Tool Supply also has them. If you dont get one of their catalogs, you can look them up online.Jason
Since this particular situation hasn't been mentioned in this thread, here's what we do at the site I'm most frequently on these days. This site is an ongoing housing project, and most of the equipment never leaves there... The site has streets with curbs etc. already installed. Anything that's on rubber is free to just run around the site, but the big excavator needs to go on a trailer to move from most any lot to any other one, even if it's only across the street. There's one 500 gallon tank on site that the fuel dealer fills up, and the rubber tired/tracked equipment fills up there. To fill the big excavator, I have a 50 gallon tank with pump, sitting on a pallet. We just fill it from the big tank, and carry it to the machine with a fork equipped skid steer.
HazMat Rules ? Bill onthehill, is correct . The limit is 119 gallons of Capacity. Not how much fuel you have in the tank. Over that capacity (119) it, must be placarded. Thanks for the correction ! Then any vehicle, includes pickups, that hauls A HazMat material such as fuel , that must be placarded, the driver(employee, or owner) must have a CDL with a HazMat endorsement. To get a HazMat Endorsement, on your CDL requires a TSA (Transportation Safety Administration) background check and fingerprinting, according to the Patriot Act of 2005. Costs $89.95 to be paid by the applicant. To have a valid CDL (costs $100 )also requires a current Medical Card. The Medical Card for CDL is a physical, done by a Dr. that furnishes the card. Costs vary for that , usually $65-$95 range. Now I hope I got all the information correct .
I'm a farm and all my equipment if for my land, so this might not apply. I'm also in Texas and don't really know the law to say with total certaintly if I'm legal or not. I have two 100 gallon aluminum saddle tanks that I mounted to an old trailer. The trailer had been in an accident and was given to me. I rewired it and put on new tires. The tanks had issues with their caps and were also given to me. I bought a 12 volt pump from Tractor Supply and had a guy weld an aluminum threaded coupling onto the tank. I think it was a 2" aluminum coupling, but I'm not positive on the size. The pump screws into the coupling. I put a 12 volt 4 prong, round trailer plug at the end of the wire and the female fittings on my tractor. Because my dozer is 24 volts, I just wired it strait to one battery. Then I plug the pump into the tractor that I'm fueling and pump away. What used to take allot of time and effort with 5 gallon containers, now just takes a few minutes without any effort at all. Off road diesel is $1.84 a gallon right now at my supplier with my .03 cent discount for paying cash when I get my fuel. It cost about .15 cents a gallon to have it delivered. More if you don't buy at least 200 gallons. Eddie
Also check the regs as I believe I read in NYS the hose cannot be connected to the tank when traveling. The tank also has to be fastened to the bed of the truck. I made my tanks which are 2x2x4 and they are about 110 gallons but I never fastened them to the truck. All the DOT stops I just carry 4- 5 gallon jugs for the Lull. Jobs have been small lately.
Thanks for all the great input guys. I appreciate all you have told me. I have a new thought for fueling. I could add a HazMat endorsement to my CDL then get one of those placards.Then I would get one of those 300 gallon trailers. Just a thought. Any comments?
I bought a new tank last year for our Kodiak. The best price I could find for the tank I wanted was from JME. This is the tank I bought at the link below. http://www.jmesales.com/item/1171/Better-Built-100-Gallon-Truck-Fuel-Transfer-Tanks.aspx It was a lot cheaper than I could get locally even with the shipping. They also have some very good deals on tank and pump packages.
For those of you thinking about getting a hazmat endorsement for your CDL. Remember that they changed the rules a few years ago, and you now have to be fingerprinted and undergo a security clearance background check. From the Oregon DMV site, and this is a federal law thanks to the TSA. Applicants for a CDL with Hazmat endorsement can apply online 24 hours a day -- www.hazprints.com -- or they can call the Hazmat TSA Screening Center at 877-429-7746 between 7 a.m. - 9 p.m. Eastern time. To get started, they´ll need to provide their driver license number, Social Security number and/or citizenship naturalization data, and employer´s name and phone number. Applicants will also need to go to a fingerprinting site to provide their prints for the security clearance check.
when they added the fingerprint requirement I let my hazmat endorsement drop. I never committed a crime and have been checked out by the FBI and INTERPOL for govt. security clearances with out giving big brother my prints. I have carry permits from multiple jurisdictions and did not need them so I refuse to give them up for diesel. I downsized my carry tank to a 50 gallon with 12v pump. Bill B.
I'd also add that around here I've never seen an enforcement officer check for the quantity of the tank or for a DOT plate (my last tank was custom made at a local machine shop). They were MUCH more concerned with whether you were using the tank to transfer dyed fuel into your own truck. Here, they will pull you over just b/c they saw the tank in your truck.
hey steve, i`m not sure that the 300 lbs things is right, the last time I got stopped in my work truck our lovely DOT officer mr. Lee asked how much fuel I carried in my fuel tank and I told him 55 gallons and he didn`t have a problem with it and believe me if he was gonna he would have then just to write a few more tickets. I really thought there was a gallon amount that it had to be over in NYS to be placarded
It's possible I was given bad info, that's the trouble with so many of the DOT regs, they are dependent on the officer's interpretation.
I do know that a private person can pack their van with x anount of 55 gallon drums with gas and be legal and a business would be hung!. I started to reasearch all this for my race car on the NYS DOT web sites. I need to find the links again for this and post them. I got home, ate and went to bed and just woke up again now:falldownlaugh so it won't be looking tonight.
Man they really do have strict rules but that is a good thing.
Here is a pic of my fuel tank. It is a 250 gal butane tank that I use compressed air to fill my machine with. After using air I will never go back to the 12volt system, the only tanks that you can use air with is the old propane tanks.
I'm with you 6peg on the 12 V pumps. If you have small equipment they're ok but if you need to pump very much it's to slow. We use these 4 hp Honda pumps coupled to a 2" Monarch cast iron pump. They pump approx 45 gpm and the Hondas always start.
DPete, I have a buddy that fuels all of his farm equipment with the honda motor and he loves it also.
d6peg-Compressed air I have never heard of that but it seems interesting. Can you explain how that system works. Dpete- Looks like you are moving alot of fuel there with a 45 gpm pump. I am still thinking of adding a HazMat endorsement to my CDL and then getting a trailer tank about 300 gallons or so and then that will be my fuel transferring device.
dieselnut, I have an air compressor in the back of my pickup and I just hook up the air hose to a quick coupler on the tank and open the air valve on the tank. I generally fuel at about 20-25lbs. of air. You have to have a pressure gauge on your tank because you dont want to go over 30lbs of air pressure because most fuel filters cant handle it. I use a ball valve and filter for my diesel hose. I can top off my D6r (60-70gal) at the end of the day in less than 3 min.
Thats a nice way of fueling.
If space isn't an issue I recommend you look into a fuel storage tank in excess of 1400 gallons. Reasoning is that most bulk fuel price breaks for delivery start at 1000 gallons. It depends on the wholesaler. I purchase diesel fro General Petroleum at a significantly reduced price when buying 1000 gallons or more with no delivery fee. If possible go with a tank over 2000 gallons, it will make it easier to get your fuel before running completely out and ending up in a “have to have it now” sort of thing. You might also consider a couple tank trailers... as apposed to fixed tanks. Not necessarily for the use of trailering the trailers to purchase the fuel but more for the aspect of moving the fuel around once you have it. You may get a slightly better price with the trailers and avoiding the delivery but I hardly think it is worth the effort or risk. I would have it delivered even if I had a trailer. I eventually went with 1400 a gallon fixed tank and wish now that I had gone with a 2000 gal. Both these tank options are pricy but the saving on the wholesale fuel prices by tanker will eventually pay for the tanks. The most economical option is probably drums which many people have done including myself. I have found one very effective way to siphon from drums is by using a garden hose and an air compressor. Simply slit the hose several inches from the fill end and use a inflator end on an air nozzle to draw the fuel through the hose, it does work with a good compressor. Tanks of course are much easier... ezfriday
fuel farm Where I work we have a fuel farm in in a lined dirt berm. working in Ca their are many regulations on how we have to be set up. We have 3 10,000 gallon double wall tanks. 2 are off road diesel the third is split 5000 gas and 5000 clear diesel. The tanks have to be double vented with over fill protection and over fill alarms. The berm has to be able to hold 1.5 times the amount of liquid that is in side of it. We also have to store all our oils inside of it. I have 5 500 gallon tanks with air operated pumps. We fuel all our with 2 internationl fuel trucks. We work in a very wet area so they are set up as 6x6 trucks. with 2250 gallons of fuel and 5 prodect tanks and a 150 gallon waste oil tank. We are in the process now out mounting generators on the trucks to run grease barrel heaters as it has been getting cool around here at night. If you would like to see pictures let me know and after a few more post I will be able to do that also Ryan
ezfriday-- That is a very good idea that I would never thought of. At my shop I have plenty of room for tanks. Are there any special regulations for those storage tank? If you dont mind me asking what is the average discount on the bulk fuel? With that I would be taking small trailer tank with me to fill the equipment then coming back to the shop to fill the tank. That could work. Tripletree- It seems like you have some operation there. I would love to see some pictures of that. By the way what are the 6x6 trucks that you run for tank trucks.
international 6x6 Our trucks here are a pair of 2006 international 5600's with c-13's. We have one more cab and chassis in AZ that is wating for us to get some more work before we spend the money having the fuel body built. These are fun trucks to drive you look have to face with a 966 driving down the road. The last job I was on we had out big fuel truck their. It is a cat d400 with 6000 gallons of fuel and 6 oil tanks. We could run 4 oilers out of it. It had 2 fast fuel nozzles 2 slow fuel nozzles and 2 greese guns. Run it right down between 2 line ups and we could fuel a lot of equipmnet in a short amount of time. The problem with a truck that big is we had to have good haul roads or we would sink it out of site. It was also very top heavy so we had to cut out the top three gears. Wish we had it here but it is to wide and heavy for these haul roads. Ryan
wow seems like a fun always something new job.
Another thing to think of is if you have fuel truck or a fuel trailer you do not need a containment area. I know a guy that's got an old 50's era binder with a couple thousand gallon tank on it that he uses to fuel his trucks. The international hasn't run in AT LEAST 20+ years and has 10 FLAT tires on split rims but its had over 10,000 gallons run through it in the last 3 months. Even has a 2 110V fuel pumps hooked to it with SO cord running to a breaker box on the side of the building. even if you drop the coin on a high dollar convault you still need a containment area. capable of holding 1.5X the volume. Not the case when its in a fuel truck or tank trailer.
Thats true. Is the containment area the only regulation?
Their was many, Double vents, overflow protection, Clear space surrounding containment i stopped listening after the first 5 hoops were set on fire. Fire extinguishers and possibly eye washes were another thing in can remember hearing. I know around here to have a bulk storage tank on your commercial property you need to register with some district and pay to have monitoring wells drilled. I have 3 commercial fueling stations within 3 miles from me so i just decided that i would just fill the transfer tanks and trucks there and save the hassle of having a storage tank on my property.
I have a marina and use the fuel for maintenance equipment and support boats. I don't have any trailers so I don't use any 6x6 trucks. Regulations are going to vary considerably by location, even by county location within the same state. You should call your local fire marshal they will be able to tell you the proper setbacks and most req's. The discount is also going to vary. Here, the price of fuel at the pump can average $.80 to a $1.20 more at the pump as compared to bulk fuel delivered in quantities of 1000gal or more. It is a considerable amount, rarely less than $.50 per gallon. And remember the bulk quantity rate vary from place to place. You should call a local wholesale supplier and they will tell you more about what you need (make sure your know the quantity breaks for delivery). Also, you may have to start a company or corporation to get the wholesale pricing. I am still not able to start a new thread... How come? I'm new here... but have been with other forums before... :usa GBA
wow that is a good deal for bulk fuel
bulk fuel I just skimmed over the post and noticed a few things I didn't see, if its over 119 gallons in one tank you need to be plackered for hasmat and endorsed on your cdl, plus your insurance company needs a call so they can hike your rates, and the thing most foregot to tell you by the federal rule book anyhow you need tanker endorsement also for hauling bulk products, now heres the kicker if you have tanks less than 119 gallons you eliminate all the above bs and you can have multiple tanks and as long as they have independant shut off you can run them to one common pump and its legal without hasmat or tanker endorsement up to 1000 or more gallons or at least thats what the state dot guys and feds told me about the regs so thats what we did ran three 115 gallon tanks into one pump and hose and saved enough on insurance preminums in one year to pay for the whole deal. You also need a lot of paperwork to go along with the plackards and it gets real complicated to stay in compliance and if you stay out of the criteria of hasmat you still need to carry papers listing all the mots or materials of the trade you carry, like gas, diesel, O2 accetaline, lp gas, starting fluid, brake cleaner etc, you don't need to do anything other than list them so if you get stopped they know about them and your legal. Contact your state Hazmat office and then the federal hazmat office and get their phone numbers off the web and find out what you can do and need to have, you really don't want to get into bulk endorsement or hazmat either its a real high priced pain. You also need to know about sournding states because if you ever take your pickup across state lines you need to be legal in those states as well even if its to drive to grandmas house for the holidays because if you cross state lines different rules apply. If you just plackard the tanks and don't have the paperwork and endorsements to go along with it boy thats high priced when you get pulled over. If you get the rule books from the state and feds and start to go through them and figure out how to avoid most of the paperwork and endorsements and still remain legal you've got the biggest battle won at least them when you get pulled over you know just what they are complaining about and writing you up for in the first place, we try to leave something obvious thats cheap to be fined for so they don't spend all day looking for something higher priced to get us on, I've never been stopped yet without getting a ticket for something and as one dot guy told me I won't quit until I find something to fine you for even if it takes all day.
I was thinking the same thing on multiple tanks. Your line about the DOT guy finding something no matter what is true. Every time I have been inspected they just keep going until they find something. I found the inspection to go much faster if I just leave a clearance light burned out on the trailer. Keep a spare in the toolbox and fix in front of them when they find it. I have had the opportunity to do that twice and both times resulted in no ticket and fast inspection.
Man thats weird the company we use for my farm is talyor oil. They are based out of St Joseph, MO, but it was weird to read still
There's an oil company in Dover plains NY called Taylor oil too.