Never a dull day with trying to get parts for this thing. The seal supplier came up with three possibilities for a kit so I bought all three with the understanding I could return the two I didn't need. None of them have what it would take to repair this. I have a message in to the supplier with a photo of the piston seal damage. Not sure if the red bands are part of the piston or available separate. So far i haven't got the bolt to budge. I attempted with a 3' pipe wrench and a 10' pipe and framed on it with a hammer while torque was applied but no dice. I ordered a socket to fit and picked up a one inch impact to make my next attempt. I was hoping to knock this out in a day but looks like it will run into next week. I guess if we get any threat of rain I will tarp it off to try and keep the hole I dug from filling up with water. Here is how i set it up to work on it.
I'm not sure I understand what I'm looking at. Is the piston damaged, or just the soft packing? I've never seen what you have. Might the red stuff be the guard material used only to protect the piston from the threads?
The red bands ride in a shallow groove and have formed ridges underneath. They are pretty firm so I don't know if you could stretch new ones on if you can get them. They may have been molded to the piston. Should know next week sometime. The metal parts of the piston look fine and the bore of the cylinder is perfectly smooth. I don't see a scratch in it. Hercules lists a new piston but the photo looks like all 3 grooves are empty so that would indicate all 3 seals should be available. Got my fingers crossed. Just eyeballing this thing the wiper seal is much larger than any in the 3 kits I bought. Probably looking at having to measure and get individual seals for everything and not using ANY of the kits I bought..
That looks like molded piston guide rings, Though I have never seen them in red.
Just looked at the Hercules site again. Looks like the red bands are molded to the piston so I imagine I'm looking at buying a piston. New Holland Unitized Pistons are designed to handle a broad range of application parameters. The piston body is machined to exact dimensions and is constructed using four components: a high strength steel body, a non-metallic bearing, a rubber loading ring, and a filled PTFE seal ring. The non-metallic bearing is molded to the piston using a special proprietary process.
I just looked on Messick's. It doesn't show the wear rings separately (see attached). Also, it notes the size "PISTON,114.87mm Bore, 63.15mm Rod, 40.369mm W"
I doubt the 1" impact will break it loose. I had a tough one and a friend who works at a heavy truck shop got it loose for me. It took heat and a 1 1/2" impact and a trailer air compressor that is usually used for jack hammers. You can't get enough air with a regular compressor. Try heating the rod at the base. Most likely there is red loctite on the bolt. You need to get it to 500 degrees to release the loctite.
Hercules shows it in stock and a little cheaper at $196.33. Found a listing at another place for $136.77 so I will probably call them first to see if they have stock. SEAL INFORMATION MATERIAL STEEL, NYLON, NBR, PTFE TEMPERATURE RANGE -40° to +230° F PRESSURE RANGE 0 to 5,000 PSI SPEED 3 FT/SEC
Just sticking my head in to vent. I ordered and received a generic piston from Fast Lift Parts. $108 shipped and got it in a day. It even had the center seal installed on it. Got the bolt loosened at the yellow JD Dealer. NONE of the three kit possibilities have everything in them that would fit this gland. None of the wiper seals would work, they are too large or too small on the OD. I have measured and searched and measured and searched and I can't find individual seals that will work. The 85804742 kit looks like it has the right rod and buffer seal. The wiper seal is too large and the wear ring is too wide. If I can get access to a lathe I might just do what I did on my stabilizers and enlarge the wiper opening. I can reuse the wear ring. Icing on the cake is I turned the rod over and discovered it was scratched a good ways down. It will probably seal but could cause a problem. Inside the cylinder barrel looks fine from what I could see with a light.
If this is a negative on the chrome, it may never give you trouble. Feel for any positives and address those with fine scotch brite or emory cloth. I have a couple of cylinders with the chrome flaking and they never seem to weep even. On the seals, there my be a dedicated seal supplier near you that can measure you hard parts for the seals themselves and supply you with a solution. I have a guy near me that does that.
I found a wiper seal on eBay that should fit tight. It shows 77mm OD. The ID of the gland housing is 3.025". .006" is a tight press but should be able to go with a metal clad seal. I like the look of the eBay seal better than the one in this kit but prefer not to put this off any longer than I have to. Friggin USPS took 4 days to get the last item I ordered from 5 hours away here. Edit: The lathe lead fell through so I ordered the wiper seal off eBay. Errks me to have to pay $75 for a kit and get one seal and two o-rings out of it.
You could pay $477 and get the updated gland and seal kit ...Sorry, I had to throw that out there.
I can't help but think that somebody, somewhere has old parts manuals or microfiche with the original kit numbers to use. I called an old Ford tractor dealer to ask about parts and they said they sent everything back to New Holland because it wasn't selling. I didn't think to ask if he had manuals or microfiche. I may call back and inquire about that. I don't remember WHAT I did with my microfiche reader but I imagine those could be scanned.
When the E-s came out, the fiche was gone. NH already switched to digital. A parts manual from the late 90-s/early 2000-s should have all the original part numbers.
This Parts manual is pretty expensive. Others have sold for half this price. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hollan...375487?hash=item3b4dbe1d7f:g:2V4AAOSwTf9ZSUww
They probably realized all the original info is gone from the interwebs
I have a bunch of parts manuals, no intention of parting with them, (no pun intended). My great uncle owned the Ford- then NewHolland dealer where I was service manager in the early '90s. He opened it in '46. When it was sold, then closed there was a 40' counter with every parts manual from the 9N up to about 2004. I bet they were all burned, but I should go see if they are in a pile in the back somewhere.
If anyone has access to a parts manual from 1998 it would be awesome if they could look up all the cylinder kits for the 98 production year machines and post them. I ran into the exact same thing when I rebuilt my stabilizers. The kit that is presently listed had the correct rod. piston, and buffer seals. The wear ring and wiper seal would not fit. On those I put the gland in a lathe and turned .050" from the outside recess so I could use the wiper seal from the kit.
Finally finished the rebuild. As said the piston wear rings were damaged so I had to replace piston. I had ordered 3 different kits from CEA Services ahead of time. None of them had all the parts needed. One kit had the correct rod seal and buffer but like the stabilizer kits the rod bearing and wiper seal were too large. This time I ordered a different wiper seal off eBay and reused the rod bearing. The new piston came with the seal installed so I had that left over in the kit. Parts used: NH-87611074 Piston from Fast Lift Parts for 108.52 shipped 85804742 seal kit from CEA Services for $74.19 plus shipping I paid $12 shipping on 3 kits and another $8.xx to return two of the kits. Awaiting refund on the other two kits. WIPER SEAL MCW- 63X77X8/11 from adrian22305 on eBay for $10.95 shipped Piston was a pain in the ass going in even though I had it in a ring compressor for days prior to assembly. I finally bumped it in with my John Deere loader. Other than that it went together and worked without leaking so all’s well that ends well. The gland screwed back in with out any trouble. I had the o-ring slathered with petroleum jelly and the threads coated with anti-seize compound. I used a 3-1/2" to 7" piston ring compressor to try to get the seal compressed before install. I might should have stuck it in the freezer and took it out just prior to stuffing but I didn't. I don't think the seal was the difficulty going in. I think the new wear bearing was being hard to start but it's hard to say. The 77mm OD wiper seal measured an average of about 3.037" The ID in the gland was 3.028" so the seal was super tight but I finally got it pounded in. I used a emery wheel on a dremel to polish the inside of the gland and outside of the seal. I didn't have a seal installer the right size but found a 3" v belt pully that fit pretty good so I got it started with that and finished going around it with a punch. On the piston bolt I got it removed at a yellow JD dealer. They used the exact same 1" HF impact I had but had what looked like a 3/4" hose and unknown air supply. It didn't even hammer. Just spun the bolt right out. Going back I used the HF gun on my undersized compressor. I cleaned out the hole and the bolt threads with brake cleaner, put a good size dollop of 242 blue Loctite, and hammered on the bolt until the compressor cycled back on. I let it build to full pressure and hammered until it cycled back on a second time. Hopefully it will stay put.
NH575E, Congrats! Thanks for the in-depth write-up too! Did you ever receive the piston wear sleeves that you talked about @ $3.00 a piece?
I guess I should elaborate on some of the kit parts I couldn't use for the benefit of others that may have a different gland. As I said I ran into the same problems with my stabilizer kits having the wrong wiper and rod bearing. Swetz on the other hand bought the kit suggested for those cylinders and had no problems. On my stabilizers I bought my first kit from the dealer and the second from reliableaftermarketpartsinc. Both of those kits were identical. This 85804742 kit was supposedly a Hercules brand but it didn't have any brand name on the label. There were two things I didn't like about the wiper seal that came in the kit. The first was it was too large for my gland. The other was it was a standard single lip type seal. For it to function as a wiper to keep dirt OUT it would have to be installed face in and spring side out. A wiper seal SHOULD be a double lip type. I didn't remove and measure my rod bearing but the one in the kit was obviously too wide to fit in my gland. I have no idea what these parts are or where they might fit.
Another avenue I considered on the damaged piston was to replace the molded in wear rings with some generic rings. The molded wear ring was about 1/2" in the groove and overlapped the edges so the top was about 5/8". I didn't figure the width would matter much as long as it fit in the groove and ended up with the correct outside diameter. After hours of research the closest I came was a wear ring that was 12.5mm wide and 3mm thick. It had an advertised OD of 116mm but that could be modified by trimming the end where it split. As it turned out it would have been too small of an outside diameter as it came out of the pack so the new piston was the best choice.
NH575E, Thanks for the addl. info. I am going to measure my wiper seal bore and see what I have next time I am at the house in PA. I will also measure the wear sleeve, eyeballing, the one you are measuring in the pic is about right. The new gland has a tiny one in it. The seals that you said you do not know what they are for are for the cylinder pin eyes. They seal the grease in and dirt out. they are a press fit on either side of the eye. I did change the ones on the rod end when I did my cylinder. I did not take the blind end pin out, so they remain original.
AHHH! Pin eye seals. Good to know but too late to change.
NH575E, Finally got to the PA house where the gland nut was. Of course I forgot my dial caliper, so I brought it home. Anyhow, My rod wiper seal is different than yours @ 3.065". The rod wear sleeve (bearing) looks just about right too with it measuring a bit under 1.1" (I couldn't get the dial caliper in the gland and I must have discarded the old one as I couldn't locate it). Well, the bottom line is that if I had this 85804742 kit, I prolly could have saved myself $400. To other New Holland 555E-675E owners, know that there are multiple glands out there that take different seal kits (this is for the crowd cylinder, but NH575E also had a different gland nut than I did on my stabilizer cylinder). The dealer will sell you a new gland nut and seal kit for almost $500.00, a lot of money, but does work and removes all of the guessing.
Not to beat a dead horse, but that is definitely a situation where I'd be matching up individual seals, instead of spending $500.
I must have lucked out on getting an oddball machine. I thought I had it covered this time by having three different kits on hand. It really pisses me off that New Holland made these changes and no way to service older units without buying new hard parts or mixing and matching soft parts. None of the three kits I had included a wiper seal that would have fit my gland. I can't help but wonder if I had a 98 print parts manual if I could find kits to fit my machine.
It seems as though Ford/NH was changing vendors or using multiple vendors...Wouldn't it be great if they had part numbers that were serial number sensitive kinda like others do. I guess it was easier to not keep track of the actual cylinders that went on each unit, and let the customer buy a new gland and kit that will fit all units. By the way, according to the bulletin (attached) this cylinder issue also affects the B, and LB series units as well .
I was reading back through this thread and thought I would update on this comment. I found and purchased a 1996 vintage PDF parts manual on eBay. The crowd cylinder kit listed in it was one of the kits I bought that had NOTHING that would fit my 98 cylinder. So much for thinking I could bypass the new gland requirements by finding old part numbers. Ain't no tellin how many times NH has changed **** over the years. I'm about to do the lift cylinder. I looked for the number listed in the old manual I bought and it was obsolete. In the usual pain in the ass format I ordered one through Messics that they had drop shipped from and aftermarket company. It arrived in a torn open package with all the wrong parts. They gave me 3 other companies that showed it in stock and I reordered from one of those which arrived in a sealed bag. Who knows if it will match the parts I need but that'll be another thread. Also my crowd is seeping again. Probably from the scratched rod. It's just going to have to seep oil for now. I might extend it out, fill the scratch with JB Weld, and emery it smooth to see if that slows it down. It's not leaking as bad as my lift is and the gland seals should be good for a while.
So is it safe to say that the 85804742 bag contained everything you needed or did you still have to mix and match? I've read this forum a few times and maybe its just because I'm still tired
So far I have not bought a kit that had all the parts I needed. I think the only safe bet is to buy the new glands but I won't allow myself to do that.
Neither will I. Hence me asking that question hahahahahaha.
Good morning! You guys have all be great here with excellent advise. I see you guys have spent some time digging into the correct seal kits for the pre -2000's 555E crowd cylinder rebuild kit. I have a 1997 that needs new gland seals for the crowd cylinder and had the original old style glad. I really want to avoid spending the $ on the new glad. I want to confirm from you i should be able to buy 85804742 seal kit and a seperate wiper seal MCW-63X77X8/11 to make this work? It seems you spelled out this exactly in your post above, but im a little confused because looking at your picture with the red box you drew, it shows parts used, within that box but i don't see the "main" seal in the picture? In that picture, i see a blue seal, but looks like it may be a wiper seal? Or is that the main pain in the butt seal that goes into the center portion internally in the gland? Or is that blue seal in the red box the odd ball wiper seal you bought from ebay? Thanks again in advance for a reply! Just looking to consolidate and confirm all i would need is seal kit 85804742 and buy a single wiper seal MCW-63X77X8/11 to complete the task (assuming nothing is needed on the piston) I know this is an older post, but anything you can remember from this hurdal you overcame, would be great!
Sorry, I cannot confirm or deny the parts I used will be correct for your machine.
I understand. Thanks for your reply. Can you confirm this blue seal that i drew an arrow to is NOT the dust seal and is in fact the main internal seal that goes inside the gland?
That is correct. The seal you drew the orange arrow to installs in the gland nut facing inward or the opposite direction it is laying in the photo. The wiper seal if it's a single lip would install facing out to prevent dirt from entering. Here is an example of how the seals are arranged in the gland.
LOL, you working for New Holland now?
Thanks, I’ll give it a go I guess using the P/N you offered. I have not really had any issues rebuilding other cylinders on this machine so far. Months ago, I seen this thread and thought to myself, long as i don't have a leak at the crowd cylinder ill be in good shape (in fear for not being able to find the correct seal kit). Well, I took off the main lift cylinder to re-seal that one and wouldn’t you know it, the crowd started leaking for the first time right in front of me! I could not believe it, there was no sign of drips anywhere. It wasn’t until I stretched out the entire backhoe to prep / support it for removing the lift cylinder. The unit has not been used in a few months, I wonder if it will slow up or stop leaking if I use it? Any hope in that? Or maybe this is good luck because I have the mutual pin out already for the lift cylinder that shares that same pin? I don’t know if I should be happy or pissed right now. Thanks again for your prompt replies.
If you had the original one, check out my forum. HeavyEquipmentForums