Why can't putting new fan belts on this rig look a lot more easy to do, geeze! Its an 1988 JD 310c Backhoe.... My JD 310c is down to the one chipped up fan belt left working out of a two belt system, so I'm looking at it and was wondering if there would be any heads up to look out for when doing this job, so far it seems like I need to unbolt a lot of stuff in the way, like the Hyd. pump drive shaft that's bolted to the crankshaft pulley, and am I correct to figure I'll need to take the radiator out for room to work? geeeze!! I'd appreciate hearing about any tips and tricks before I do this job, thanks, Joe
Jd310 This probably isnt going to help, but its been about 4 years since I done this. I think I just unbolted the pump drive and I dont recall anything else being hard to do. If you have 2 belts that drive the same things, make sure you get a matched set of belts. I bought a match set a few weeks ago for a project and got them installed and one of them was loose. I took them back and bought a single, double groove belt. This is a single belt, it kinda looks like they glued two belts together. If its a pain in the B-tt to replace and its a double belt system, go with this single/double belt. If I remember it was a Gates belt. While you are in there check the water pump. Can you see any rust around it? Can you shake it? If Yes, its a good time to change it. I dont remember if I had to remove the fan or not, but if I did I just unbolted it and moved it forward. Good Luck and keep us posted
You should only have to unbolt the 2 piece coupler for the pump. remove the pieces and wiggle the belt between the drive pins and up over the fan blade. It ain't easy but it is not impossible to do. After you tension the belts run it a little while and recheck tension again. They tend to stretch a bit when new and will glaze up if run loose. Keep your cuss can close by.LOL
Something i do with a setup like that is to buy two sets of belts , loom tie the second set out of harms way so they cannot foul . Next time you need to replace the belts , just cut the old ones off and the second set is good to go as the drive shaft is already through them .
Thanks for getting back to me.... I never seen the double grove single belt, I wonder if you need to have special pulleys made for it? Thanks I'll do them checks you mentioned...
belts No special pulleys, its made to replace the two belt pulley system. Ever look at some double pulley systems and see one of the belts jumping up and down? If you have a number on your belt, just take it to a parts store and tell them you want a double belt Good Luck
I kind of thought thats where the belt had to slip thru, but I had to ask to make sure, because I have a habit of always taking too much apart, or the wrong end.. . I was looking in the book and see there is the Isolator that is between the Front and Rear Couplers, I wonder if that needs to be checked for wear, or does it ever wear out? I did grab hold of the shaft it self and was not able to shake it, so I'd think I'll be okay with that if there was no tension on the shaft? thanks, I'll do that and re-check the tension, with cars I never use to recheck them, obviously customers never came back just for that, that makes sense why the number one complaint with the new cars at the dealership was "Ck for noisey belt" . I think I'll be using about 5 coat hangers all hooked on the ends, so I'll be poking them in there every which way so I can pull the belts every which way to get them on the pulleys.. . I hope I don't have to take too much apart.
Thats a great idea to pull through another extra set of belts, wow, if I was going to keep it longer I'd pull thru two more extra sets I'd wrap them up nice like you say to keep out anything that might break them down, like from grease and the other elements before they are used. thanks, great idea! I bet its a good selling option too.
Oh yeah, if I can remember I'll take pictures of the whole process, it would be a good thing to have on hand for another Newby.... I do have to say after working on cars most of my life, and now that I've been fiddling a bit with this big Iron machine, heavy Iron is very intimidating and obviously so much more harder as well as very dangerous to work on if your not using your head.
powerbands Have a look see here!! may help:tong
LoL, I'd rather work on Iron any day as opposed to autos. Except for maybe Bobcats.
If the isolators are mashed and distorted I would get new ones as they are the cheapest part of the coupler. You may have to pop them off one half to get room for the belts.
It looks like a nice belt, strong, lots of talk on having a good shock load demand, I'll look into it, I like them... I was just thinking if I use them I should make sure the top center edge on all the pulleys are smooth, and not nicked up perhaps from rocks hitting up in there, or like from someone prying on the pulley(s) from prior repair work, or from prior belt replacement... I'm having flash backs on some mechanics I use to know, especially this one guy I remember like it was yesterday who was over in the next bay putting on a fan belt using just a screw driver, as he's asking if someone can bump the key as he holds the belt in place with a screw driver in the pulley grove, he was even too lazy to get his under the hood starter wire with a bump switch and hook it up...
Would finding a bad Isolator be a sign of another problem starting to go wrong? just wondering because I know nothing about this, so I figure if I'm to take this all apart I might as well go to town and and check and fix everything if it might be on its way out. thanks...
I agree with you... I was not able to work on cars anymore back in 1983 when I got out of that business, you needed to have very small hands to get in anywhere to fix things, my hands were way too big to get into any spaces as newer models came out, I was getting cut up too bad... lol
Not necessarily a sign of another problem. Bill was simply saying now (while your doing belts) is the time to look around in there for any other items that need attention. Then...you answered your own question in the latter of your post. LoL, yep...that's cars. I hate workin' on the critters. That's why the wife has a 2004 Explorer with V-6 and I drive the trusty old '85 F-150 with a 300 six. I can fix anything on that old truck. Equipment has it's difficulties to work on as well. But generally speaking...at least equipment is "designed" to be worked on.
Oh great, thanks, sounds good, I have to ask about these things because sometimes when I don't its always I wish I did I'm glad I posted because I got some great info about this.... Now I might ask for help perhaps in another post about the exhaust pipe assembly... Thats if I can't find any info on it in the two books I have on this unit... I hope I have nice clear photos about this in the book.... I guess by asking it's wishful thinking that I can do something about it making a rattle noise, rather than face up that I'll most likely have to replace the whole thing, which I figure is the fix when you hear an exhaust system make a rattling noise .... Not long ago I found the brace holding the stack broken, so I think it ran for some time like that weakening the unit, perhaps I'll get lucky and be able to fudge it some how after fixing the brace that bolts the stack to the valve cover bolt. thanks everybody... I'll post back the pictures later on with what I get into.
Yep, the exhaust is kind of a weak point on these machines. I've had to replace those broken support brackets on several of them. I've also welded additional gussets on the front support bracket to help prevent them from cracking. Another thing that comes loose on those machine is the clamp for the connection of exhaust manifold to muffler. You might want to pull your side panel off and check it out.
Thanks......... I believe I'll be in good shape if the rattle sounds comes from the out side of the exhaust unit. Can you give me an idea whats involved with taking the top hood/cover off one of these machines? Is it too involved to remove, or too hard for one guy to unbolt and move? I was reading in the JD manual where it was saying to unbolt and remove as if you were removing something simple.... Because I think its time to go over everything under the hood, you know the drill, I need to look for what else is on its way out, or needs adjustment and lube, or is missing and the rest of it is ready to hit the ground if I didn't catch it in time ... Just like all the things I had to finish fixing the correct way when I went thru the machine when I first got it, so at that time I really was never able to get under the hood very well to take a look around... So them little side panels and that one top 5 by 12 access flip panel is not doing it for me to take a look around .
It's been over three years since I've worked on one. I used to service a 310C, D, and E. Yeah, the hood is a bit of a pain to remove. Seems I remember the air cleaner is attached to it, so it's cumbersome to remove the hood by yourself. That's why I liked working on the Case 580E, K, and L with the flip front hood. On the other hand, the thing I liked about the Deere 310C and D was that they used the 239 c.i. engine. They are such a good engine there's not a need to remove the hood that often, they just don't have many problems. IMHO, it's one of the best industrial engines Deere has made. The exhaust on the C and D were a problem. And I think their problems mainly stem from the fact that the muffler is mounted rigid to the top of the engine connected at the rear to the exhaust manifold and at the front with the support braket. Now this in itself isn't a problem...I think the problem is caused by the 4 ft exhaust stack. The engine vibration amplified by that stack that's clamped to the top of the muffler is what cracks and breaks the support bracket. Not so much the foward and back motion...more the side to side motion. The 310D I worked on was notorious for breaking that support bracket. I finally decided to put a brace on the stack. Took a piece of 1 x 1 angle, mounted it to the top of the hood on opposite side of stack with a rubber dampener mount, then it went across hood at an angle to about 1/3 way up stack, and fastened it to stack with exhaust u-clamp. It didn't break anymore support brackets. But I'd go ahead and take the side covers and hood off, if for nothing else, to give everything a good look over and a good washing.
Thanks for the tip on the exhaust. My 310C has the same issue, and I made it worse last winter pushing back snowbanks under some trees...... I'll pull it apart and relieve the pressure with your strut idea.
Oh, and since we are off topic on this thread anyway the headliner in my 310C refuses to stay stuck to the foam. It separates right at the liner:foam interface. I bought a can of Permatex Foam Adhesive in an orange can and that works for about 3 months until the machine sits in the sun. Then it falls off again. Anyone have a cure, short of removing the headliner?
I use 3M spray adhesive to install headliners, but that's strange you have the headliner seperating from foam. You might want to go ahead and replace your headliner. I buy headliner by the roll from db engineering http://www.cabinsulation.com/ I can't remember if they have a minimum quantity charge, but it may be cheaper than buying OEM headliner. Can't say for sure. Hope that helps ya a little.
Oh! I have just the fix that works great and lasts forever.... I'm not sure if you're head liner is like the one I fixed that was in a 1988 Chrysler LeBaron. But what I did was staple the drooping fabric right back up to the card board foam type material and it worked out great, if you have to put a staple every 5 inches in every direction.... then use a magic marker with the same color as the head liner to color over the top of the staple while its in the head liner, make sure its ink will stick on steel or it comes off, and I swear you'll love it, you can hardly see the staples after you color them, Let me know how it works out for you.... Oh yeah, what I did before I used the stapler was to color the top of the staple stick before I loaded it into the stapler, then coloring the top of the staple once its in the head liner is a little easier...
Thanks you two - I'll give the stapler a whirl first, and then look to replacement if that doesn't work. Right now, after regluing it about 8 times, the rear window is holding it up. That's OK only until it rains or, being August, when I need the heater.
Can you explain it a little bit more on your home fix to hold the stack from rattling, I think I'll do something like that, or put a thicker stronger bracket coming off the valve cover, not sure. Yeah I think its time to take the hood off to look over everything, perhaps when I stop using it near Winter time so I don't have to rush, one thing that bothers me is I don't know why or were the injector pump sweats this big wet mark all around it, nothing really drips, at least the last time I looked at it, I don't think it looks like it has to be an immediate fix, (or is it). everything is tight with the lines going to it, I hope nothing is cracked? :Banghead its hard to follow everything to see where the fuel flows...
Well, it's kinda hard to just explain. Here's the basic concept. View attachment exhaust brace.bmp Here's a link to the type of rubber isolater I used to attach angle brace to top of hood. http://www.ha-king.com/catalog/list.php?parentId=21 The u-bolt exhaust clamp you can get at any parts store.
Oh Okay! I see what you did..., that's a good non-ridged way of doing it so the pipe don't rock around all over side to side and still has give when needed... so far how long, or should I say how many hours has it been like that with everything doing great?
I haven't worked on these machines for over 3 years, changed jobs, so I don't know. All I can say is, when I was still around the machine, after I installed the brace it quit breaking that #%&*$ support bracket! Another thing you might want to do on your machine is flush and change the coolant. The 239 is a wet liner engine. The cylinder liners are thick on them and they don't have many problems with coolant erosion, but it still would be good for the longetivity of the engine to occasionaly flush and change the coolant to avoid problems with electrolisis and mineral pitting. I have worked on many engines over the years, and in my opinion, the 239 Deere is one of the best diesel engines ever made. Rock solid tough, reliable, smooth running, minimal vibration, and typically not an oil leaker. Keep good fuel and conditioner in it, service oil and filters, change coolant, and she'll run problem free for years.
Its funny you say that because the first thing I did when I got it was flushed the hydraulic fluid in everything, I have buckets of engine oil and hyd fluid from the dealer just waiting there for the next service, and I just recently changed the coolant and put that conditioner that the dealer said to use for electrolysis, plus another 2.5 gallon jug for another flush.... I have to say I don't work it hard.... I got it with 8970 hours last year, and now its got 9400 hours and still runs like when I got it, like you say solid... I heard many people the same thing you have, I heard many say they have gotten 15,000 hours before they broke it down to rebuild, and they did that only because they said they were not able to get certain contracts if their machines were too used up with high hours, something like that... but the engine was still running great with 15 hundred hours... I've always been the type to go crazy with changing the fluids a lot, I just hate to see the oil get too dirty.. and I cut every oil filter open, its the only way your engine talks to you...
Thanks you two for discussing the 310C exhaust system above. I took a good look at mine, ordered a new split-Vee clamp from JD, and noticed also that the bolt in the centre support bracket has ejected. So, I'll pull the hood off to give me some room to see what else is going on there.
Yep, it's a common problem on those machines. Wears out the split V clamp and ejects the bolt in the support bracket, or breaks it off, or wallows out threads. If I remember, it seems I would use a bit longer bolt in the bracket to give the bolt a little more bite, can't remember for sure though. Even with this design glitch, I still like the Deere 310C and D. Darn tough machines. And the engine could be called an anvil that burns diesel fuel.
I replaced the fan belts and have pictures to post soon on the steps it took me to install them, it was not as hard as I first thought... should be helpful for another newby like me. Also..... Can anybody please help me find an exploded view of the exhaust system, or go into a little more detail on the JD 310c exhaust system, so I can see what and where this V-Clamp is and what it's job is in there that your all talking about. Being my exhaust system is rattling just as loud as the sound of the engine I need to give it some attention right now, but I keep putting it off, I need the machine, masons are coming next week and the area is still not ready for them. By just feeling around in there I'm not sure what's going on, like if I'm causing any further unnecessary damage to the exhaust system that will make fixing this problem cost much more... although I haven't taken a mirror and huge light to it just yet to look around a little better, all I can feel is the joint connection between the exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe system feels good, and feels to be a flexing type flange connection made to flex and give in to engine movement. So I'll guess the baffles in the muffler are broken away and nothing I can do to fix it other than replace it, everything seems to feel okay up in there... So right now I don't know what else is involved with muffler replacement if I need other parts, such as in the way of this V-Clamp and where does this go? Also lets not forget that every nut and bolt will be rusted beyond reuse.... Any heads up is always great to hear.... (belt pictures soon to follow)
It's laid out pretty good in the parts manual, if you have one. THe vee clamp locks the muffler to the manifold, and the muffler is also stabilized by two brackets. One bracket can be seen from the door side of the machine easily with the hood on, and the other can be felt right behind it, more to the centreline of the machine. On mine, there is only the one bracket closest to the sidescreen that is holding the works together. That's why I'll pull the hood and get right at it. I have some concrete to mix this weekend - I'll run it like it is and then pull the hood after while the concrete is curing. I was thinking today that I may sandwich a rubber bushing between two flat washers in the bracket that is currently not attached to anything (closest to the centreline of the machine) and double nut the bolt if I think the rubber will take the heat. Kind of doubt it, but I'll look. It would maybe help absorb some of the vibration.
joeeye59, you can quickly remove the side panel and get a good look at the exhaust system as Deere John has advised. Then you'll have a pretty good idea of what's going on in there.
I can see the one brace that hold the exhaust going to the front of the valve cover is broken like everybody says they do in time, so this means I have only the one other brace holding it in place? the connection to the manifold I didn't know it was called the v clamp, I just figured it was called a flange. What I'm going to try today is to tap on the exhaust to see if I can hear where the rattle noise comes from, I forgot to do this before, so if I can hear whats in side the muffler making noise then I'll just shop for another one... Does the stack come off easy and is reusable? I can't believe my two shop manuals don't have anything to look at...
Your right, I think rather than assume the exhaust system is rattling it just might be the connection at that clamp... So I should either take the hood off in the Winter down time, or get a real close look at it with mirrors and a 200 watt bulb
Yes Joey - mine is on the side burner for awhile too. I will probably lose the $39 fancy clamp that I bought for the repair before I get around to it. I will take pics though.
OK - I didn't lose the fancy clamp, but did find it necessary to remove the hood to get to the problems. Will do belts and a valve set while I'm in there anyway. I replaced the missing fasteners and fancy clamp. The exhaust bracket had been repaired before, so I will install a brace when I put it back together. I can't seem to upload photos now, but I took a few and will upload them when the computer likes me.
Nice work John, that is, not losing that fancy clamp since last September. If your going to replace the valve cover gasket, be careful not to overtighten the valve cover bolts. Don't know why, but the valve cover bolts tend to break easily on those engines, beats me. :beatsme
With and without turbocharger. Just go to Deere.com and click on Parts, type in your model number. Edit: Tried to attach the files, but it says upload failed.
Thanks for the top end tip. I'll try the photos again to see if the site will load them. Nope - maybe tomorrow.
Your welcome. Be patient with the pics, I'd say they're still working on repairing that feature after the website meltdown a couple weeks ago.
Picture uploads are working again. Thanks Steve. The yellow painted bracket was the one that had broken before and was patched and welded. It broke near the lowest stud, attaching it to the engine.