I have recently determined my head bolts are still structurally sound, but some were rusty and pitted, and I elected to find all new bolts, but Cat no longer supplies these bolts, and from years in our shop, we rarely reused bolts, but I'm unable to find any bolts anywhere. Any suggestions? I also have 2 precombustion chambers that have stripped the head threads. has anyone ever drilled, re-tapped a larger size and place a insert for the chambers to bolt to? Thanks Sam
Have you measured the bolts and found the thread pitch and looked some up? Ive reused head bolts before but none that were rusted and pitted.How big of an engine is this? how often is it used?
Theres a tool for that to check length. If there torque to yield I believe they should be replaced meaning after torquing tou turn additional 90 degrees.
if this is a D333, are there some in a 3306 that are the same diameter and could be shortened if they are slightly longer? as for the stripped PC chamber threads, you need to find another head, or a block/head repair shop that specializes in cast-iron welding and repair. how badly are the bolts pitted? you can re-use the head bolts in these old engines with no problem if they are not badly pitted and if you cannot find new ones
Give some more details please. What engine model is it.? What Part Number of bolt are you trying to find.?
44A3206. The 9H5846, 9H5849 are the Bolts I need, and when you search for the part numbers now, it is showing up as a oil seal.
The Pitting seems more surface pitting, but the closest machine shop said the PC chambers could be redrilled and stainless steel inserts put in, a new head is going to be hard to find locally.
Seems strange on the face of it for a Cat Part Number to change to an entirely different description. I'll have a crack at it..... 9H-5846 services to 1S-4400. Available from your Cat dealer @ $7.72 each. 9H-5849 services to 1S-4399. Again available @ $10.00 each. Both the above Part Numbers the nearest available stock was located in a Central Parts warehouse in Atlanta GA, so they would have to be ordered by the dealer should you decide that you want to replace them. Can't help you with the cylinder head pre-cup insert threads I'm afraid, although coming across a cylinder head might be eaiser than you might imagine.
Nige, Thanks very much. The numbers you just provided do show up as the bolts for my head. The closest Head I can find is in Florida, they will not ship and it actually looks like a different head. The one they have doesn't have the Decompression shaft.
The manual states to torque to 130 ft. lbs. first, then final torque at 170 ft. lbs. but no additional turn is indicated in the shop manual.
It is a 6 cylinder 10 liter engine, and it's just used for the farm right now, so it isn't a everyday use machine.
Flushed with success regarding the bolts. What Part Number of head are you looking for.?
Looks like 7M2131
7M2131 is a cylinder head for a D333a (4-1/2" bore) Plenty of heads listed on Machinery Trader part search. There's an outfit called "Lok-n-Stitch" that sells tooling and inserts for the Pre-com chambers which I believe are 1-1/8"-12 tpi. Get and go by the cylinder head casting number when you go shopping.
Do you think the inserts are worth a try?
yes, these work, gives you a new gasket seat flange as part of the insert. http://castingrepair.locknstitch.co...mbustion-chamber-thread-insert-2/fst1011812-5
Thank you very much!
There is tooling involved, I don't know what the cost is, you'll have to give Lock-N-Stitch a call.
I just sent them a quote request, from what I am gathering the kit comes with the tooling, either way, the kit will be cheaper than a $1,000-$6,000 head replacement.
Would appreciate you posting the cost when you find out.... Like to have it for my files.
The kit is going to cost $664.72 for the kit of 5 inserts, and tap.
Thanks for the feedback. Just like them to offer 5 inserts when you have either 4, 6 or 8 cylinder engines.... I guess you could sell off whats left when your done and recoup some of the investment. Would appreciate your feed back on how it goes if you go that route. Recommend you get the head checked for cracks before investing in the insert kit. The D333a engine is prone to head cracking.
I spoke to a machinist tonight and showed him some photos of the Head, and he explained that I could save myself some money by making threaded inserts on my metal lathe using 330 stainless steel that will work as well as what I could buy if I stay close to the tolerances. He recommended using a 7/8-9 tap for the OD, and the 23/32-12 ID. The trick will be getting a straight bore as I drill and tap. I guess at this point, I either buy the kit, buy a new head, or try machining it myself. I spent many years as a diesel mechanic, and some machining, but don't have a milling machine. I spent a whole week inspecting this head for cracks, and another week surfacing it to remove some scratches, and so far have had good results until the darn threads gave way...LOL! I'm still looking for a new/good condition used cylinder head, and time isn't a major issue, I just am anxious to hear it run again. I will keep updates on the progress
Another try is Chapin Cyinder head in Chapin IL if they have a exchange for this. They fixed a number of heads for a previous employer not so expensive either.
(217) 472-3333 Do not believe has a website
Thanks much, I will try and give them a call. So far this particular head is quoted at $5,000 being the cheapest and that is a bare head only.
Here's a list of sources to work through..... https://www.machinerytrader.com/parts/search?page=1&partnumber=7m2131&searchtype=starts-with
I haven't given up, but it seems every head I have had pictures sent of don't seem to be exactly the same. Most differences are air intake, or they don't have the decompression shaft in the top. Does the Cast Number 1M30 make a difference?
These cylinder head casting numbers all interchange. 1M0030, 2M5417, 2S9780, 2S9790, 5S1880, 5S4100, 8M0690. All should have provision for or have the decompression shaft if a complete head. Provision for will just have cup plugs in the end bores where the shaft would be installed.
This will likely be an interesting journey, I will bring everyone along for the ride....LOL!
And it begins
The above photos are of the guides for my drill bit, and tap with guide sleeve to obtain a accurate drill and tap into the precup chamber,
Do you have any engineering experience? Do you have a email I can contact you at? I think I have it figured out and wanted your input.
Old machine with an old way of torquing the head bolts down. They are not pulled into yield and the firing pressures are not that high to begin with. Some pitting is pretty normal. Use a scribe to dig around the bottom of the bolt holes in the block and then run a bottom tap down the hole to clean the threads. There may be a spec for the length of the bolts for a go / no go test to tell you if you need to replace the bolt. The pre-cups are something I've never had to deal with. I have sent heads to Portland, Oregon to a place called Diesel Cast Welding but I don't know if they are still in business or not. They did good work for me on some Fat Allis heads years ago.
Yes, I am a retired Mechanical Engineer. See if you can get the PM function going on this website to contact me. I really don't want to post my email on an open forum. May be a few bumps as I don't make use of that function on this site, I usually can be found on the ACMOC Cat website.
Yes, I think the specs for the Bolts are in the shop manual, I will definitely check it as soon as I get the pre-cup issues addressed, Thanks much.
Totally understandable, I will have to figure the message function out...LOL!
https://www.dieselcastwelding.com/
I would not reuse head bolts with pits unless patching it for auction. Pits are a starting point for a crack and bolt failure. Have bought some things from Con Equipment with good success.
If I am looking at this right a eze lok is ready made. Not sure why a guy would want stainless?
Bolts are on hold right now until I get the pre-cup issue fixed.
Why buy when I can make it, I have a total of $7.00 in stainless turning stock. I chose stainless primarily for it's properties with heat, corrosion, and strength.
Making your own custom thread repair inserts can be a very rewarding or a painful experience. Depends on how much time and experience you have with lathes and such. I'd personally go for it. Any special depths/tolerances to be worried about?
Yes, I'm having to work with 9/16 of material inside of a water jacket. I have to keep the insert level with the head surface and at a slight pitch. I've had to make some special jigs to insert into the pre-cup chamber holes to get the correct angle. I have made 4 inserts so far that are just sitting there because I'm not sure of, because I know there really is no room for error on this application...LOL!
Yup- That's a tight one and not much metal to play with. I'm not sure what tools and setup you have available (mills, solid quill drill presses, hand held power drills, etc.) but your setup and jig will be the most important aspects. Sounds like you have two good sets of threads in two cylinders to work off when setting up your jig. Did you thread up a straight rod that screws into the good holes and line up your jig to it? Use that same rod to shim the head on the table so it's square to the quill (if you got one)? I'm kinda lucky I have full access to not just all the right tools but also my dad was a master machinist (tool and die maker actually) and gave me lots of lessons in our home shop. Let me know you want to bounce off any ideas...or just need moral support to hit the 'on' button on a drill! Sometimes that's the hardest part!
I actually used the old pre-cup that stripped and bored it out on my Southbend to the final diameter of the insert and "rigged" a clamp to clamp it down. I have most of wha tI need but just can't find a good mill right now but that is definitely on my to get list..LOL! I really like the older machinery, for some reason they give a satisfactory result. My Southbend is old military surplus from the 40's that is tight.
That's a great idea! I'm surprised you could bore out a cup as I thought they would be hardened up to a decent rockwell. Either way, it'll make a great jig. Our first piece of machinery in our garage was a flatbelt 9" Southbend. Still have it in the old man's garage, oiled down and covered up. I turned many a bolt, sleeve, and gun barrel on that lathe as a kid growing up. I learned a LOT from my dad. After he retired as a tool and die maker, he opened up his one-man shop and filled it with military surplus tools...not one had a computerized brain on it. Keep looking for a good mill- it's an amazing asset! Send pics of your finished head when done!
Does anyone know if there is a rebuild kit for the Cat D333A fuel injection pump 9H3707?
You used to be able to buy gasket sets but that might not be an option any more. I don't ever remember cylinder packs. You had to buy bearings in sets but I don't recall complete engine kits. Not even in the 3306 engines.
And if they have one it’s probably outrageous….lol
No it needs to go to an injection shop .And it's a D 333 no A. Bob