Ec8Yx-Mp-5s Hope this qualifies on an earthmoving forum. A very big mess to clean up
Holy ****! Ed
Moved more earth in that one event than some of us will move in our careers.
Just goes to show ya' , one person can make a difference..... in the bottom line of a company
If they're able to derail it from 1500 km away, it shouldn't be too hard to drive the darn thing from the same place.
I think the 'derail' was just switch to a siding track, but yes you would think they'd know how to run it properly...
How could this happen? One of my customers drives a train for another WA iron ore company and he has to hit a dead man switch every minute or so or the train stops. As well as millions of $$ lost someone is going to be feeling mighty embarrassed about how this can happen. Look forward to more info. Ausdave
I think these boys may know something about it.......... https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=323355495122706
In the US there are auto stop features where if not actively working controls you have to apply a warning button to prove awake or alive or attentive if not the train just stops goes to Emergency braking and shuts it down.
If you are talking auto train control, then not so much. We had a passenger train go off the rails last year and the first question by the investigators was did the line of auto train control. The people at Amtrak have been saying it's way to expensive and have delayed implementation for years.
Not auto train, just dead man switch.
Wasn't that derailment a 'test run' of the newly installed auto train control system? 78mph in 30mph zone. "The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigators also said that had an automatic-braking system been operational, it would have applied the brakes to slow and stop the train".
This is why an engineer should always stay in the cab of the locomotive. This reduced crew idea is flat dangerous. They don't really tell us much about whether the brakes bled off, or the engines were left with the power on and overcame the brakes. I'm leaning toward the brakes bleeding off. When they are applied, no air is being sent to the train. Train brakes work like the old semitrailers without maxi cans and only use the tank charging line. After you make a brake set it either has to be recharged to release the brakes or eventually it leaks off and releases them on their own. I ran trains for a local shortline for 2 years. we had one 2 percent grade that was a mile long that made you pucker up every time you went down. you made sure everything was pumped up good before you headed down, retainers were set to hold a brake setting, and DO NOT over use your air. Otherwise stop NOW and set handbrakes and pump it up all over again. Luckily our locomotive had 24 cast iron brake shoes that could keep you out of real trouble. Those brakes were independent of the train line and had full tank pressure available at all times.
The Amtrak derailment was the first commercial run, the engineer was fully rested but he wasn't real experience on the line. He blew through the speed limit sign and basically didn't realize where he was at . There was no auto braking control on the train and the line was brand new. Wasn't a dead man in the train, I guess he was mentally dead, and it still wrecked. Automatic systems might have prevented the wreck but all intents and purposes, it didn't exist in both cases.
I don't know anything about trains except when the big accident in Lac Magantic happened they said the train was left running to keep the brakes on and they work the opposite of a semi where brakes need air to release. There was sparks and fire coming from the engine (exhaust) so fire crews (I think) shut the locomotive off. Another big contributing factor was that the hand brakes on the cars weren't properly applied. Apparently it's common to leave them running when parked while the crew is away from the train, even overnight. Maybe they did just bleed off from lack of maintainence?
They used to commonly leave them running because they may never start again outside of a shop. It is no matter whether you leave the locomotive running or not though. The brakes on the cars are air apply only, and just like an old trailer, you can't trust them more than a few minutes to a few hours before the air will leak away. There is also no separate red and blue like on a truck. Only one pipe for the whole train. So when stopped for any length of time you must walk and set hand brakes every so many cars. Now theoretically if the locos can pull the train then their brakes should hold it also which you could do by leaving them running to keep air on the locos but I don't think that is allowed under any rule book.
Preliminary Report https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/RRD18MR001-prelim.aspx Engineer hit the brakes 6 seconds before derailment and didn't use emergency brakes, per in cab video > oh f-moment!
If I recall they said they leave them running to keep the brakes on and the hand brakes weren't properly maintained and not enough of them applied to hold the train back.
Trains do not have spring cans, they use air to keep the brakes on or mechanical linkage thru the individual cars handwheels to set a alternate holding brake. They lose air supply they will roll off unless the 'Hand Brake' is applied. There is a air line from the engine to the cars, they charge the line to feed air down the train then release that air to a minimum pressure for operating. Seems they have a 'Self Lap' application pressure to keep just a little drag on and facilitate braking.
It is a little different than that even. The train has one pipe, the whole length. No separate supply/apply lines. If you increase air pressure to the cars, by any amount, they all release completely dumping their own air reservoirs into the line to help it release faster. You then continue to supply air to the line/reservoirs and pump them all back up to full pressure, say 80 psi, whatever the company policy is. Now when you want to make an application you release air from the train line and the magic valves give you 2.5x the reduction amount in the brake cylinders. So you drop air 10 psi so the train line and get 25 psi to the brakes. But the one and only way to set air brakes on the cars is via a reduction on the line. You can't continue to supply air to them for parking even if the loco is running since any supply of air would cause a full release. So once they leak away, they begin to roll free again. There is nothing like a johnny bar to the cars on the train.
No there isn't, only item even close is the manual handwheels at the car ends that suck up a length of chain attached to the brake linkage, and in no way will ONE car hold a train, would drag it along as a sled.
So railroad train brakes default to the release position? I agree that one car can't hold a train but many cars will. I have moved twenty five loaded coal cars on a one percent grade and used the hand brakes to stop and hold them in place. We had ten guys riding on ten different cars and had everyone set their hand wheel brake on call and the cars stopped with no problem. When I worked on the Weyerhaeuser section, out of Enumclaw, loaded chip cars were held in place with the hand brakes. As I recall the air brakes were set and then the hand wheels turned up tight. The brake shoes were tight on the wheels at that point. We never had a run away on either line.
No, default is a full application in the case of a broken air hose or a train breaking in two (broken coupler knuckle or drawbar). The air in the car tanks sets them up tight... til that air bleeds off. Usually that gives the crew time to start cranking hand brakes down tight. But... a break in two, you better be fast at closing the air valve on the last car and pumping up air as fast as possible (usually full throttle) to get the front end released and catch the rear half before too much time passes.
In most cases a default setting would be what would happen if there were no air pressure at all. In the case of equipment of trucks default is spring applied. Apparently in the case of the railroad no air pressure means a car rolls uncontrolled down the tracks.
They default to air applied by reservoirs on the car like an antique semi trailer. But that air will not hold forever. And there is no way to use a compressor to hold the brakes of a car applied. Supplying air to the car releases all brakes and recharges the reservoirs. They do need to roll free for yard operations where they push them over a hump or whatnot. Not sure if they just drain the reservoirs or have other ways to release air when not connected to an air supply.
This^^^. When the trains are in the yard being readied for the hump, a guy goes down each side of the train on a 4 wheeler dumping the air tanks. Then they roll freely.
Yep Yep, if the car(s) reservoirs lose all air pressure. Westinghouse single line system was/is standard worldwide.
I always thought you stopped the train with the grease on the track & caught the caboose with ropes in the trees ? Rio Lobo .
I remember hearing my uncle and my dad talking about doing the grease thing a time or two. I guess you have to stay out of earshot when they stop turning the wheels. The railroad people didn't think it was very funny and they followed the laughter for a long way during the chase.
I never hit any grease, I ran that engine through rain, snow, and ice. Blow on some sand and you were good, but green weeds... We had a couple of spur tracks and sidings that weren't sprayed to kill the weeds. you would back in to pick up a car or two and when you went to pull out the wheel slip alarm would go nuts and sand didn't seem to help much. And after the weeds you had to remember to drag the brakes a bit to clear the wheels off or you had no brakes. Oh what a stink.
Yet another Aussie train mishap, this time in North Queensland. The train had been stowed at a "high spot" ahead of forecast record heavy rainfall. The time lapse is particularly impressive. https://www.theleader.com.au/story/...of-floodwater-in-qld-near-a-train-derailment/
Wow, that's amazing.
Do these rail roaders NOT understand how to set the mechanical brakes?
I didn't get the idea that the train got away. Maybe I read it wrong but I think it was parked at a high point and the flood waters overtook it. At least that's the feeling I got when I saw the time lapse showing how high the water got in such a short period of time.
You are correct John.
Why park in flat land, gonna get its feet wet in any direction?
Flat as a billiard table in both directions for as far as the eye can see. I suspect that the ballast and formation was scoured out from under the rail and parts of the train simply fell over. Unfortunately, we seem to seeing more of these extreme weather events. This region had been severely droughted for several years and then suddenly overwhelmed by a record breaking flood. Up to half a million cattle lost, possibly the biggest disaster to have ever hit the Australian agricultural industry.
Prayers to all affected Queenslander. None need have to deal with these issues.
5% of the Australian beef cattle herd gone. It's a massive hit.
To view the preliminary accident report go to: atsb.gov.au and then" rail accidents & investigations'. This BHP iron ore train was loaded at about 41,000 Tonnes and reached speeds of 162 kmh before it was successfully derailed at a passing loop on its run into Port Headland WA. The final report will divulge how the train pulled away with out the driver who had de-trained to inspect rolling stock. Progress ---- Having only one driver on a train !!!!
So long as the driver sets the brakes the way he's supposed to before getting out of the cab you only need one...... EDIT: Read the report. Stay in the cab and wait for assistance to arrive would have been the appropriate course of action. The ground gang applying handbrakes to the wrong train could also be seen as a contributing factor.
As been mentioned before, I was Manager, Chief engineer, Chief track man, Chief everything for a shortline RR. NUMBER ONE RULE was the engineer NEVER leaves the controls. I had 4 rotating part time ground guys and used 2 at a time, radios were the key to avoiding problems. If it all had to come to a halt to sort things out... so be it.