I have been hauling out of the same pit for the last 2 days now and the closest the loader operator got me was 54,800 lbs. My legal gross weight is 54,000. This guy is horrible. I went from 54,800 on trip to 63,000 the next time I came around. :beatsme I went back a few times to try and dump out a couple thousand pounds but I am hauling asphalt millings and with the heat, they just stick together. Needless to say, the 2 yards I was trying to get out always ends up being half my load when it finally slips. I had to call him back over every time. :Banghead Finally I just said screw it and went on. I was nervous all day because the haul is 37 miles mostly interstate. What do you guys do in this situation? The operator looks to be in his mid sixties and I am tired of telling him "thats too much" every time. If it was a younger kid, I would be breaking his cojones. I still have 3 more days of this!!
You walk up to him and tell him last warning, he will be held responsible for the fines. Even give him a letter for the same. Does the loader have a load meter?. Over here now the law helds both the driver and the company that loaded it responsible when its dump trucks. There is no excuse...either he toes the line or you are going to end up carrying a fine and possibly losing work.
You have to be carefull you get caught there goes the profits for the day after the DOT is through with you. What size loader are they loading you with ? If the loader has a 4 yard bucket once he puts 3 scoops into you drive away. The loader operator either thinks its funny or he doesn't give a crap. Your gvw is a little on the low side is this truck a light tandem ? For us we are allowed 57,500lbs (26,100kgs) on a tandem axle dump. Talk to the owner of the pit tell him his employee is overloading my truck and I don't like it and the operator isn't listening. Your butt is on the line you get caught overloaded it marrs your safety record. Once you have a mark on the DOT hit list you will get picked on all the time. With the gvw of your truck being 54,000lbs you are probably good for 12-13 ton legally so 2 1/2 scoops is all your truck can haul if the machine has a 4 yard bucket. Don't put up with the loader operator I would have dumped the load on the scale and say to the scale operator you deal with it. I know with the major pit in this area they won't send a truck out overloaded. So if one of the excavation contractors trucks goes out and its over gvw the pit won't allow the truck to leave. If the truck does get caught overloaded it can come back on the pit. I hope you are getting paid by the hour and not by the load or by the ton. Gravel truck rate for us is 80 bucks per hour the clock doesn't stop till the truck is at home with the engine shut off.
So that's what you'd have done, huh??? Well then, you've got a bigger set than me! Shutting down the quarry's operation until the scale could be cleared would not do much for my working relationship with my supplier, in fact I'm pretty sure I would not be let back on the property. That would bode well for my business!!! Copenhagen, I think a more realistic approach would be to speak with the operator just prior to being loaded and tell him your concerns. If that doesn't work, look for the plant manager and let him know of the problem. I had a problem with a loader operator being rough on my truck at one plant and told the manager about it. The next load the operator came to me and apologized and was much more careful in loading. I find you get much better results with discussion rather than immature stunts.
You do what ever to get the attention of the management. This place that Copenhagen is dealing seems like it isn't a big operation. If it was the operator of the machine would have been delt with. You take no BS from the employees at the pit. If the operator is too ignorant or stupid to listen to you do something about it. Don't be scared scream yell make a fuss your responsible for the truck your the one that gets the overload fine.
Copenhagen, You need to let him know how many tons you are legal for and ask him what a bucketful weighs. He may be used to loading heavy haul trucks and that will get the wheels turning so to speak. Trying to dump a little bit off of a heavy load never did work well for me. The rest was always at the back of the box and I didn't have enough weight on the front axle. If you are worried about being over then dump it out (at the pile), tell the loader op how much over weight it was and ask him to load it again. He'll get sick of loading you multiple times and do it right, or like Steve said find the guy in the white hat and (calmly) explain what's up and ask him to help. Or, you can always drive out from under the loader while he's dumping.
Ford, you obviously have little knowledge on the workings of a quarry. Pull a stunt like that around here and you'll be finding the exit pretty quickly. Not to mention, the other drivers will be finding you pretty quickly. Copenhagen, if you have already spoken to the operator and come up with nothing then find the pit manager. Speak with him about your concerns and see how that works out. In Georgia, if the quarry has scales and they let you leave overloaded then the quarry is responsible. If this is the case up your way then I would think the manager would be pretty interested in whats going on.
Yeah, most pits has scales and when I drove dumpers, we weighed going in, and coming out. I remember taking a few loads back off the scale and dumping them in the pit cause I was way over, but with the trucks we had at the time, it was really difficult to get enough weight on the front axle without dumping a bucket full on the cab and hood. It was a judgment call then, if I was close, I might make a run for it. We didn't have many DOT guys back then and always knew where they sat if they were out. I wouldn't do it today. If a load isn't legal, no way Jose would I leave the pit without getting it right. The fuss just isn't worth it. You're like the rat with his head caught in the trap, with all his pals lined up behind him.
Tell them to get a set of scales in the loader. Around here, the quarries won't let you leave if you are overloaded.
Good point, although they most likely won't invest in scales just for one complaint, there is strength in numbers... I've been there a million times. The old "know-it-all" in the loader is in the loader because he's failed at all the other tasks around the quarry. He is a scientist when it comes to loading trucks after a week in it. I had a guy a few years ago that couldn't get a single load centered in the middle of my dump trailer if you gave him a line to go by in paint. Tightened the cheeks of my butt up every time I dumped one of his. I finally climb up onto the loader, with as much diplomacy as I could muster up and "mentioned" to him that I was hauling by the hour and first; didn't need to be overweight, and second; would be great if he could get the loads a little more in the center. The guy flips his wig, telling me he's been doing this for years, and gets an immediate puss on now. Loads another offset load, and I go directly to the owner of the pit and tell him his old operator is starting to get on my nerves, and explain that he's screwing me and this pit up, because there's other places to buy material from that can actually load a truck properly. It seemed to work with a mixture of friendliness and firmness. The geezer was miserable from that point on, but I started getting a decent load. That's about all you can do, go to the source and present your case, and put the liability card on them. They'll either get the message and correct it, or maybe there's a reason why you shouldn't haul out of that pit... As for the dumping of a load on the scale to solve this kind of problem, I had a 1/2 a** buddy that did that when we were hauling pumice from a dock in New Haven, Ct. to a block plant. It was a 28K ton ship we were transferring, and there was something like 25 trucks running all day long till 6 p.m. kerfew. This jerk got to the block plant at 6:15 p.m. and the gate was closed. He backs up to the gate and dumps 30 tons of pumice right on the padlock. Needless to say, the block plant wasn't the least bit impressed with his behavior, banned him from hauling any more, and charged him for the cleanup. THAT'S what you'd get for doing something stupid like that...
Copenhagen, Steve has it right but I assumed from your post you had already spoken to him. Please let us know how it goes....but remember...if you keep on rollin with the punches your just gunna keep getting punched....metaphorically speaking that is.
I know this isnt right ...... but i'd love to get overloaded every trip. Time is money.
When I was hauling blue clay for a landfill closure (we were subbed in for several weeks from my employer), I knew I was running heavy. The pit operator said I was fine everytime I asked. After a few rounds (8-9 rounds in a 12 hour day) I got out of the truck and walked into the scale house and asked to see the weight. 72,000 on a wheeler reg'd for 60000(?). On my way back the next trip I stopped at the shop and kicked off my wood sideboards. Took 8" right off the height of the dump. The scale operator noticed the next round and I told him if I was over again I'd loose the steel 8" channel iron that was my lower side boards as well. No problem after that. If you can't take a sideboard off, it's time to have a chat with someone to lighten the load. That, or bring it back to the pile and dump and make them reload each time.
Around here some pits wont let you leave overloaded, some could really care les waht you put on your truck. Soils vary so much (based on composition moisture etc etc. Are you an owner operator? Do you ahve air ride?? Air scales are not that expensive or hard to install. IF I were an o/o id have a n air ride truck and thered be an air scale on it for sure. Esp when your hauling concrete debris and gravel back etc, not always a scale to be had on a jobsite. Face it guys municipalities are struggling, all of them, are hungry for money. Big trucks= big fines. overweight, brakes out of adjustment, slight air leaks, we all know old fashioned bulbs and the bouncing of spring ride trailers/pit roads knock lights out, etc etc etc big trucks are big fines and many municipalities are catching on and nnot messing aorund. No need to had them your hard earings, moneys tight enough.
I don't mind being a little over say 2-3 tons. Would be nice to be exact every time, that never happens. This week I had a load of topsoil to pick up and I was loaded the worst I have ever been. Put the tarp over before I pulled away and the loader driver gave me a slip for 14 yards, just what I asked for. The problem was the truck had like 17 yards in it and all in the back. The load was so bad that when I made the first corner about a 1/2 yard goes sliding over the side boards onto the road. The kicker is when the pit owner calls me to come back to clean up the road. That didn't happen, I said that he overloaded me and he would have to go and pick up the topsoil on the road. I will never make that mistake again. Get out and look before you pull away. I can tell pretty close by how the truck is sitting and how full the box is.
How many fellas here use the PSI on their suspension air bags as a rough guide to how heavy the load is?
Well we got it figured out today. The past few days it has been just me hauling out of this pile. Today there were 8 trucks lined up for loads at 6:45 this morning. I watched him load a few and then they took off. A few minutes later, every single one was back to get rid of some material. They were all heavy. At this point I actually felt sorry for the loader operator. Seeing the look on his face when they all came back was horrible. I got a chance to talk to him and he had only been on this loader for 3 weeks. It is a big CAT 988 and he said that he just came out of the field running excavators and a 950. We all took it in stride and, once he got in a groove, the heaviest I got was 54,020 lbs. The lightest was 51,600 lbs. I guess it was a combination being in a bigger loader and not really knowing the weight per CY of asphalt millings that was giving him a hard time. Ford, As far as my GVW goes, it is a Colorado thing. 54,000 for tandems and 80,000 for 18 wheelers. I am not really sure what the rules are regarding drop axle trucks. Nobody runs them around here. BTW, I got his age. 71 years old with the "heart, soul and STAMINA of an 18 year old. :notworthy Atleast thats what he said.
Thats good that you got it worked out Copenhagen...a little communication goes a long way
Don't yell at the old boy he might have a heart attack If he is loading you with a 988 if it has a spade bucket on it the machine can easily dump 8 yards of material into a truck. He should only putting 1.25 to 1.5 bucket fulls into a dump truck. You can probably cound on 2500lbs per yard Drop axle trucks are not used in my area either but tridrive trucks are which is good for 72,900lb gvw. Tridrive trucks are allowed 20,000lb on the steer axle and 52,900 on the three drive axles. If he is used to running a excavator its probably going to take him a little while to get used to loading trucks with a 988.
When will it end? ointlaugh That's great that you got it worked out that way, Copenhagen. Better with honey than with vinegar, eh? It takes some getting used to when changing from a hoe to a BIG loader like that, understandably. Especially in the golden years, I'd imagine. A 988 is a big difference from a 950 obviously, and as you said, the difference in material density makes a difference. Everybody needs a job in this world, and I'm glad it was worked out without a lot of animosity. If he does it again tomorrow though, I'd dump the next load on the scale, and let them deal with it to prove my point. rofessor :shf :falldownlaugh
:iagree Sometimes a little communication is all it takes to solve problems on the job. I've been following this thread with a little interest...My father was operating a loader in his 80's. He had to start turning down jobs when he hit around 83 or so due to his eyesight. One of the hardest things he had to adust to..no more playing in the dirt..
Its something that will be very common is the older generation still working past 65. The stats shown for Canada which who knows is true or not but there isn't enough younger generation replace the baby boomer/older generation. It will probably be the same in the US.
All the time, only have a gauge for the tractor drives but have it marked at the 34,000 point. I know what my gross empty weight is and with knowing the weight of the load and a little math i can usually get it leagal and with more weight on the drives than the trailer tandems. Have been looking into the Ride Right air gauges to add to the trailers.
:falldownlaugh :LMAO
He loaded 5 out of 6 perfectly today. The last one was about 1,000 lbs heavy. It was raining pretty hard though.
So going with that theory, if there aren't enough young people to replace the older folks, then at some point in time, there won't be anybody left in the US or Canada. I'll be on the next flight over Squizzy......its gonna start getting pretty lonely over here.
My experience are air gauges help but arent that good. The truck I drive depending on the way the trucks sitting (uphill downhill left to rigth etc sometimes the air guages are way off. Air scale is ALWAYS w/in 200lbs on the whole truck.
Maybe things are different else where but around here DOT could care less who loaded you. You leave overweight it is the drivers responsibility. We had one of the first sidedump trailers in this area and we did a lot of custom trucking. Everyone wanted to fill that tub up. My driver got pulled over (BS reason that I could have beat I think). He weighed 125K we were licensed for 80K = $3700.00 fine nontax deductible of course. I negotiated a deal with county prosecuting attorney. I would buy an onboard scale system for the truck and he would drop the fine. Cost 5K which was tax deductible and saved by pocket book countless times. Wont buy another side dump without one. It was a Vulcan system. Awesome, can print tickets, digital readout in the cab. Back to point. The fact that we were loaded by a private pit mattered none. The driver carries the responsibility once the truck leaves the pit.
There won't be enough younger generation to replace the baby boomer workers. There will be lots of old fossils living in retirement homes. The employers will have to change somethings to make it easier for the older generation to keep working. My neighbour down from me he worked till he was 68 years old his heart problems forced him to retire. One of the guys I work with is 69 years old he is in good shape. He will retire this year. A few truck drivers I know are still working and they are in their late 60s.
KSSS is right, once a trucker leaves his loading point, just like a ship captain, he is the master and is completely responsible for his load.
Most pits around here dont let you leave unless you are legal. the weigh cop around here loves to take out those scales so you have to be careful. Couple weeks ago us and another contractor had 20 trucks dumping dirt at a fill site we had, and with 10-15 minute round trips we were moving a lot of material (10,000 yards in 2.5 days, solo trucking). we started on monday and it wasnt till friday that he knew/noticed how many trucks we had running, but once he got wind of it he had 'em lined up. a few guys got tickets, and i guess somebody even had red fuel. luckily no one i loaded was over, they were all right on the money.
Bad news on having red fuel in the truck on the highway. Federal fuel inspector found it on a water truck I had just received from another project. We never used it, and we never put a drop of fuel in it, but all you have to be to be a Federal fuel inspector, is not color blind. She wouldn't leave the project untill we paid a thousand dollar fine, on the spot. Getting a rental truck from Hertz or RSC or one of the other rental houses? First thing you do is check the color of the fuel in the tanks. That truck may have been rented out to a farm. They not only do not have to use clear fuel on a farm, they can use red fuel too. The rental company is not likely to check that when they get it back, if it even goes to their yard between rentals. A little red fuel goes a long way towards contaminating clear fuel. It's difficult, time consuming, and expensive to drain, clean, and reassemble and fuel a truck that's had red fuel in it. Best bet. Send it back to rental house and demand another -- with clear fuel in the tanks.
That sounds a little funny. If it's a registered, on road vehicle, my curiosity disappears immediately. I'd assume a water truck would be considered an off-road piece, and transported to and from each site by lowbed. Therefore, red fuel wouldn't be illegal. But being a Hertz rental, maybe it's roadable. I have a friend who bought a brand new Sterling 10 wheeler 4 yrs. ago. He was driving down the road to a job pulling his backhoe when the truck died all of a sudden. The truck is new, and they fueled it up a couple of days before this day. He gets out and opens the cap on the drivers side, and it's bone dry.His son is behind him with the pickup with the off-road diesel tank, so he's thinking "what the hay...just throw 5 gallons or so in, and the fuel stop is 10 miles down the road, we'll fill it up there." They start down the road and low and behold, 3-4 miles from there is a famous DOT pulloff that I'm familiar with as well, and guess who's there? that's right...The Man With The Plan once again. First thing on the agenda was for the cute little blonde federal inspector to dip his tank for red fuel. Guess what...red fuel. Now he's got problems. He tried to explain what just happened 5 minutes ago, but she didn't want to hear a word. It was an automatic $10,000.00 fine, and a day in court. They went home pretty discouraged, and tried to figure out why in the world the truck ran out in the first place. He went to the other side of the truck to the passenger side fuel tank, opened the cap and it was chuck FULL of fuel. Evidently the equalizing valve wasn't functioning, causing the left side which it draws from to pull dry, leaving the right side full. They brought the truck to the Sterling dealer and had it fixed, and had them sign an affadavit admitting it was a mechanical failure, and on court day it was all resolved, with no fine. Moral to the story: Don't drive into a DOT check with off-road diesel on board, it's expensive.:cool2
Yes, it was a Keter Piewit water truck and was fully licensed and registered for the highway. You are correct, that's what makes the difference. The feds must have hired every loose blonde there is for fuel inspector jobs, and redheads. Ours was a redhead, with a temper to match.
There has to be something to that then, surferjoe. I've been stopped and checked for red fuel 3 times in my life personally, all 3 visits by a rather attractive, well proportioned young blonde woman. I wondered why they have them on that detail...Usually in an unmarked Ford Ranger pickup with a steel service type cap on it around here. Look closely, and you'll see Uncle Sam's license plates...:usa
Yep, that's them. Remember, the only qualification they absolutely had to have is, they couldn't be color blind!
Back when I was working every day I remember the feds showing up at our shop very early one morning to do a survey of all our diesel on road equipment for red fuel contamination.We were always very careful about that so had nothing to worry about but my understanding is that you can agree to their sampling of the tanks or not agree to it,it is your choice.I imagine if you did not agree then they would find another way to get their samples. The person who I worked for had a lot of enemies because he would sell his own mother and probably he owed money to one of his former employees like he does me or some such thing and somebody sent the feds there to do their work. I looked at the regulations a while ago and I do remember that their detection equipment is sensitive enough to detect the presence of red fuel contamination after it has been diluted by 5 tanks of taxable fuel so it appears that there is more to it than just being able to see the color. I also remember reading that there are two agencies that are interested in enforcing the law there,one is the tax man and the other is the EPA.Whenever I got stopped on the road by the DOT guys they always looked in the tanks but I am not sure who they were representing when they did that.They always got us for something though )Ron G
I'am still amazed how you guys in the US get picked on for running dyed diesel. You get treated worse than if you shot somebody The CVSE inspectors are more concerned about safety not that your running marked fuel. If they can't find anything wrong with your truck they will see if your running marked fuel. The fine for using marked fuel is 230 dollars and your sent on your way. The gov't is getting taxes off marked fuel when its bought by the fuel supplier then the gov't gets more tax off the sale of the fuel to the contractor. It used to be common practice to use marked fuel in the gravel trucks but somebody snitched to the inspectors and the contractors stopped using marked fuel. We figure it was one of the gas stations that snitched so the contractors have to buy fuel at 3.91 a gallon. Those costs increased the per hour of gravel trucks from 65 per hour to 80 per hour. The nearest cardlock is too far away to make the 24 cents per gallon savings worth it.
It's a tax thing FordLT9000. We have a multitude of goofy tax laws regarding fuel, and as this country moves on with more alternative fuels and power sources, these are all going to have to be modified, thrown out, and new ones brought in to keep the revenue stream up to sufficient levels On the red fuel, it's simple. It's considered an off-road fuel now, and does not get taxed at the higher rate that clear fuel does. The higher tax on clear diesel is to go to maintain and build this nations highway infrastructure. Those that cheat are only screwing themselves and other motoring citizens in the long run, and paying huge fines in the short term. By the way, the federal fuel inspectors here are not connected with any of the vehicle safety bureaus, they are part of our governments Internal Revenue Service. Most fuel inspectors would not recognize anything else on a commercial vehicle, except the fuel tanks.
It's simple math. Off road diesel is not taxed, so it is approximately 35-45 cents per gallon LESS than on road down here, depending on the distributor, the area, the state it's sold in, the greed level of the vendor, etc. Lot's of variables, but Big Brother wants his cut of the pie of every gallon.
Marked fuel must be considerably cheaper in the US than it is in B.C. . I haven't checked on the price of marked fuel lately but the last time I checked it was only a few cents a litre cheaper than clear fuel. Its why the gov't doesn't get too excited about people using marked fuel. The fuel tax on clear diesel fuel is .55 cents a gallon so if you bought 100 gallons of clear diesel the gov't gets 55 dollars in fuel taxes plus gst 27.00 so for 100 gallons of on road diesel the BC gov't gets 82 dollars in taxes. The cost for the B.C. gov't to pay gov't workers to check trucks with marked fuel would cost too much. A person to do that job would be paid 60 grand a year minimum and you would need quite a few people to check every area in B.C. . The B.C. gov't knows if they kill the economy they are in big trouble and besides more people are working more income tax they get. Take one small excavation contractor with 3 employees they pay alot of tax in one year. The contractor buys a brandnew excavator for 200,000 dollars there is 26,000 dollars of sales tax on that excavator. Every 300 dollar load of gravel the contractor buys there is 39 dollars sales tax on it. The B.C. economy has been rolling along pretty good the politicians are rolling in the money.
Well, here in Norway we got the same regulation that u got in US. Red fuel is for off highway use. Blank is for highway. And we got the same system regarding controlls, except for the blond nice looking ladies. I would like to see more of them along the roads. Her it is customs that pay attention to the fuel. So at a controll point there might be three different guys present: - Police to check speed, loggbook/driving card, driver license, alcohol and drugs. And to write u a big fine! - Customs to check your fuel and tax on the vehicle. - DOT to check your vehicle technicaly, weight and insurance. And theese guy's are online with the big systems that runs on their office desk. And they just cut your license plate if something is badly wrong. Or u get to meet at the DOT for a new inspection in some weeks. And if they are realy naughty, u get to drive inside their controll post and they will get your breaks tested on the rollers. + a inspection from the underside. Then u might en up with a towing car to the nearest truck dealer for brake overhaul. If u get caught with red fuel u get a big fine; 13 000$ the first time. If u get caught second time, within 2 years u get 26 000$ in fine. This is for a vehicle with max weight of 40 000 Lbs and more. U can get a redused fine if u can prove that it has been filled on lately. But that is rather difficult if u haven't been controlled lately.
I thought all the ladies in that part of the world were blond and nice looking?
They don't wan't these types of technical work on trucks. U can get dirty under your fingernails u know. So 99% of all these field controll guy's are old male mechanics. The female's stick to the administrative jobs at the main office, smiling to u when u don't pass the driver license exam... And it is true al females are blond and good looking around her.
Red fuel here is currently $.75/gallon less than highway diesel. The big fine is deterrent to using red fuel on highway. Without enforcement, it doesn't matter how high the fine is, there's no deterrent. Until they put that big fine on the violation, I had been known to run red fuel now and again in my trucks, since the savings was worth the risk when the fine was at a lower level. $10K takes all of that away.
It musta changed in the last couple of weeks........
There still is parts of B.C. that is booming its mainly where the Albertans are spending their pocket change on summer house. A summer house for some Albertans is 1 million dollars. When your making 80 grand in a couple months they got money to burn. What I find funny about marked fuel is in the remote areas people buy marked gas and diesel from the marina and put it in their car or truck. They get caught running marked fuel but they paid more than what you pay for clear fuel from a gas station. When the gas station is over 50 mins away the marina is easier to get fuel from. Marked gas from a marina is around $4.80 to 5 dollars a gallon. No road tax on the marine fuel its just marked up price.