Looking for feedback from guys who have run the larger SANY machines into mid life or longer. Im in the market for a brand new 50 ton and my local SANY is willing to let an SY500 go with delivery to my site for 400k. That price blows away any other competitor ive shopped by 100k or more. Ive had great experience with smaller SANY machines 8 ton and below but have not kept them past 2,500 hours. Thanks for any feedback.
Pricing is expensive up north. Got a quote from my Cat salesman on a 335 with factory GPS - $380K. A 335 is a 75-80K machine not 100K however that price does include ready to go autos. No experience with Sany.
I did shop CAT and a model 352 brand new is up in the 550k price range. Closest ones available were AL, FL, and NC. Even used ones with over 1500 hours are listed above 480k. Out of all the brands I shopped, Hyundai was the next best deal for an HX480 or HX520 around 470k new.
If that 352 is at Thompson Tractor I've seen it on their yard.
You got it, they had 3 or 4 listed when I looked last. All used with over 1,000 hours and listed for more money than I want to spend on a new one so ill pass on a CAT machine for now.
Drove by today - there have 2 new 350's and a 395 on the yard. That 395 is a hoss - makes the 325 I have sitting a few machines over look like a mini-ex.
Definitely don't need a 90 ton machine. The guy before me was working this quarry with a Koehring 1166 and 1266. Talk about two monsters. Im just looking to fill the position that my 35 ton has been working with a 50 ton machine and move my 35 ton to a more productive position. My local SANY is going to be getting a 2023 SY500 back from rental and said we could talk around 230k for that one with 1200 hours. Very attractive pricing on the SANY machines.
Just saw this company advertising late model equipment. They have some big ho’s lol.
I'm most familiar with sany and the crane side. They are much cheaper to purchase, but the resale is absolutely horrible. No one wants the used one. A Grove or link belt may retain half to 3/4 of it's value after 5 years, a sany might only be 1/4 or less. We got a dealer locally for Earth moving, there are two guys I know each rented one. Neither one of them were interested in purchasing the machine after renting one. I might look at renting one for 2 months before you spend the money, because you are really going to take a resale hit if you aren't happy with it.
Solid advice. Right now, that is the plan. Work out a purchase deal with a rent to own built in so I can log a few hundred hours on it as a test. I do see what you mean about holding value as the used 2023 they have with 1200 hours is almost half price of new. On the crane side of SANY, how are they holding up 8,000hr and beyond? Hydraulics, undercarriage, and electronics all living about the same lifespan as the more established brands?
In my experience buying, running and selling equipment if a certain piece of iron looses 1/2 it's resale value in 2 years and 1200 hours something ain't right. Even more so on a hoe this size. $167 per operating hour loss in just depreciation..ouch. Ask them why the such a difference in new and used price.
I do hear what you're saying. Resale isnt much of an issue as whatever brand 50 ton machine I end up with is going to be in the give away to farmer or private landowner price range if I ever sell. The cheaper im into it the better. At minimum its going on 12 hour shifts 5-6 days a week for the next 6 years to make the most of my permit and land. Should have at least 15,000hrs by then going off normal downtime of my higher hour machines. If its a mechanical superstar, it'll have close to 20,000hrs. As far as I can tell the brand just isnt popular because its Chinese and carries all the usual labels of cheap and junk. Tough sell to experienced guys that are brand loyal and also a tough sell to newer guys not wanting to buy something they think will let them down. Ive been renting smaller SANY for probably the past 8 years and they have been fine machines for the 2500 or less hours I keep them for. Not as nice overall as my CASE stuff but for the price point I can live with what I may not prefer from the experience with the SANY brand so far. My guys also dont mind the ones we've rented either and theyll each get a 60 hour week on the SY500 to give me feedback before I purchase.
The price on a 2 year old machine with less than half the hours it should have if working consistently should tell you all you need to know about the brand you're looking at. Honest question, from someone that moves dirt for a living. If you plan on getting 15k hours out of a machine, I cannot understand why you would low-ball yourself like this. An extra $100k over 6 years and 15k hours is basically $6 per operating hour. Go buy a low hour Cat and thank me in 6 years. That 352 will probably still be worth close to $100k, while the Sany will more than likely be in a scrapyard. Or, better yet, how about this? https://www.machinerytrader.com/lis...5/2023-komatsu-pc490-lc-11-crawler-excavators With 2700 hours, this machine will do everything you need, and has warranty for the next 6 months as well.
You're going to need parts and service support if you want to put even 5000 hours on any brand of excavator. I really doubt Sany is going to have the parts when you need them or the service support if you need to have a technician come out to diagnose and repair. How many weeks will it take to get parts?
At the moment this is what's available to me locally enough. Let me know what you think of the position im in right now. I already ironed out the deal for a brand new SANY SY500 with delivery to site for 400k flat. Same dealer has two SY500 models (1200hrs) that we can begin negotiation at 230k. Other options within a days travel are a Link Belt 490x4 with 500hrs listed at 450k and a Volvo EC550 with 100hrs listed at 575k. Brand new CAT 352 locally isn't available for a month or more and dealer isnt willing to go below 550k not including tax or transportation. Used CAT machines with same ballpark hours as used SANY are a flight away and listed between 200k-250k more than the SANY. Im also in a position where I have two backup machines in the event the SANY gamble doesnt work out and im stuck with prolonged downtime. The backup machines will be working on their own tasks but are not counted into the 6 year production plan so anything they do is extra and if they have to be pulled to fill a role im still on schedule without much worry. As far as money saved, its looking to be 200k overall and 200k not tied up in a cheaper machine thats producing the same income as the more expensive machine can grow as an investment. 200k in my account will become roughly 320k in 6 years instead of possibly just getting 200k back and breaking even from the sale of the CAT when im done. Please let me know what you think, would you make this move with your business?
I’d do it. When Hyundai started selling cars in the US, they came with a 10 yr/100k miles warranty. Problem was nothing but the drivetrain was left after 100k mikes. Body was rusted out, wipers didn’t work and the doors fell off. Sany has been in this game awhile and they are going to be bigger than Case in a decade. Same thing with Komatsu. After you’ve done with this 1/2 price machine, you won’t care about resale value. Gamble is, can it make the six with comparable down time and repair costs. My gamble, which is worth nothing, is that it easily should do it.
That right there is pretty much my original question, but it seems as of the responses yet other than "crane operator" no one has been around this brand long enough. Im not going through with the purchase until next year but as soon as the rental SY500 comes back im going to iron out that purchase deal with rent to own for the next two months and get it working the rest of this year. Plenty of time to change my mind if something better comes along.
No experience here but you should be able to make money with the rental just as it is. No need to commit too soon.
Why not one of the 1200h SY500’s? for 230ish….seems a huge savings over $400k 1200h (to me at least…) seems very low hours
Thats the most attractive right now, condition dependent of course. Once I get eyes on both the rentals for sale ill make that final decision. In a perfect world id love to get a 1200 hour machine with 3800hr/3yr still under warranty and haggle down to 200k. In the meantime I will wait and see if anyone possibly from Asia or Europe with experience chimes in. SANY isnt anything new from that part of the world.
What happens with most of the sany cranes is this: they get purchased for a project, because they are so cheap compared to first world equipment. Bean counters see dollars saved. Half way through the project, there's usually problems, and the job isn't happy with the cheap crane. They rent something else, or baby it to the end of the project ( typically 1 year or less). They go to unload it at the end of the project, and it sells for little of nothing, mostly going back to a third world buyer. Because no one wants it domestically. In the crane work, the liability is so large, no one wants to take a used crane from questionable quality control, and push it to chart. It's just not worth the risk. No way would I want to count on a sany for a six year project. If this was a road bridge build or wind farm 6 month to one year, I guess if that's a risk you want to take- it wouldn't be my choice. They don't use them in China for six years. They use them for a year or two and send them to bangledesh or Africa. The first two years might be okay, but I think it's going to be a heap of **** for the last 3-4 years of your project.
Still time to buy that 395... That's a 350 sitting next to it. Had to go by the Tarrant store today to get a part for my 953C and snapped that.
Same reason the resale value here in the good ol' US of A on a machine a few years old with 1200 hours on it being $200K cheaper than a new one. Equipment Share came into our market with a fleet of Sany excavators from mini's to 80K'ders. Now they have replaced the Sany's for the most part with Linkbelt, Case and Doosan machines. No idea of the reason for the brand change just what I've seen.
This project must have a pretty low margin if he's so concerned about saving $100k on a machine that is planned to be used up in 6 years. In my world, if I had a job that was going to last 6 years, and I was going to put TWENTY-FIVE HUNDRED hours per year on a 50 ton hoe, IF I was worried about the bottom line that close, I'd either be rethinking the job, or reevaluating if this was the right machine for the job. A 50 ton hoe *here* should generate a barest minimum of $400 per operating hour. If it makes 80% operating time on 15k hours, it should clear over $3 million. This is sounding more and more like a low-ball bid, and now trying to salvage every morsel of meat attainable.
Thank you.
It amazes me how many times I see a brand-new Sany crane on a big highway project. I haven't seen a used one starting a big job yet.
I do get the point being made here and appreciate the discussion and contributions in whatever form that comes. If it makes anyone feel better, im working my own land that is paid off. I have a contract with a large aggregate company and they will take as little or as much as I can extract legally in the 6 years my permit is good for. I can always renew the permit as ive already settled that with DEM and the local town council. I have three 30 ton and one 50 ton loading out 9 or more tridems per hour. Three of the four machines I have right now are from the early to mid 90s and just that much slower than a new machine in this environment. I dont need a new 50 ton to keep from starving, thats why im looking at a cheap brand that could fit the bill even if it gets half the life of an established name brand.
Sany equipment is the Tekton/Klutch/Vevor in the construction equipment world.
If it only gets half the life, and costs 85% of a good machine, that doesn't seem like a gamble worth taking in my mind. A name brand machine with 15k hours might still be worth $100k in 6 years. That Sany (if it lives that long)you will give away, and probably spend twice as much to keep it going if it does.
Thats why my original question is to actual owner/operators. Its been a decent discussion so far but by majority just opinions and speculation with no first-hand experience. My local SANY dealer put me in touch with one customer who has over 9,000hrs on an SY305 excavator and 7,000hrs on an FEL, not sure the model. Thats the only first hand owner/operator ive consulted so far. Theyve had good service from the machines so far. As of now I can get a brand new SY500 for 65% of any well established brand ive shopped. The used SY500 models are 50% and I have not even negotiated that deal lower yet. The pricing is very attractive and almost throw away justified if things dont pan out.
Wouldn't a wheel loader be much faster for loading trucks even if the existing excavators stockpiled the material?
Faster from a stockpile yes, but then I have two machines, two operators, and handling material twice. Its most efficient just handling the material once from the initial excavation right into the truck. Majority of the site is sand and gravel with small amount of blasted ledge. Pretty much all loose material and the excavators are loading 21-24 tons in a tridem every 6-10 minutes. Only time I send the wheel loader is if we work late excavating without hauling and have a few heaps in the morning.
If you’re only loading out material into trucks then I’d take the gamble, it’s light work. Keep it well maintained and nail your guys if they abuse it. Go for it and keep us updated on how she performs.
Must have missed some other details upthread but if you're only loading a tri-axle every 6-10 minutes then why a 50 ton? Is the material that difficult to dig? We regularly load out 25 tons on tri-axles with 2 - 30 ton machines. They could easily keep up with a truck every 6-10 minutes however they are both Cat's.
From what ive seen from my own machines and crunching the numbers, a 50 ton in the ME configuration should be the best fit. Right now we are working an old quarry that only extracted the ledge and wasnt able to get permits to extract the sand/gravel. The previous owner set up processing on top of roughly 20 acres of sand/gravel so the top layer is fairly packed, thats why we are averaging 6-10 minutes per truck. When below that layer ive seen my mid 90s EX550 with 4.5yd bucket load trucks in under 4 min consistently. My new CX350 with 3.5yd bucket is almost as fast so I figure a new 50 ton with 6yd bucket should do it. The 3.5yd bucket is pushing it a bit much and im going to drop it back to the 2.3yd bucket. After we clear the open ground we will move into 130+ acres of virgin ground thats shown to be primarily sand and 6- gravel. My 90s 30 ton machines will clear this land as my 90s 50 ton and new 30 ton excavate behind them. Another 50 ton machine seems like a good fit and then if needed my new 30 ton can join the clearing work. Most of my machines start with a C if you want to give me credit for that Ive never owned a CAT though, out of my price range when I started in 1998 and still out of my price range today.
My cousin is the shop manager at my sany dealership, I will see what he has for input. I am not playing on your guys scale but I think cat is getting a little carried away with their pricing. Before I bought my sy35 I had cat quote me for a 304 it was $70k no bells, extra to get the warranty up to 2500 W/travel. My Sy35 was $42,500 2 buckets 5 year/5000 warranty with travel included, I put Trimble 2D w/laser catcher and was still under cats price. I bought a 2021 cat 259D3 for 0% financing $60K ,priced a 2025 255 with about 5K worth of upgrades 0% financing $94k all of this before tax
Ironed out a rent to own deal for two used SANY SY500H for $380k delivered. One has a little over 1300hrs and the other a little under 900hrs. Both have 2 years left on the warranty and over 3500hrs. Feel free to rough me up further, I just cant pass on this price for two lightly used machines. I have them rented until the beginning of 2026 and if im satisfied will purchase, if not will return and pay for rental per our deal. They will be delivered to me late next week. I did get seat time in both units and was able to pull a few buckets with one. Both come with a 72" 3.9yd bucket. Not the fastest cycle times compared to other brands ive tested but again for the price I cant complain right now. Pretty simple machine with obvious lower quality on the inside but looks good on the outside. Nice welds and paint is holding up in areas the previous renters scuffed and scratched. I was intending on a larger bucket (5.7yd) but I dont see this machine pulling that bucket through even loose sand fast enough to justify. I will update again after they are both working. Thanks for the conversation so far.
Hard to go wrong with a rental-purchase. Keep us informed on how they work out.
We did 2 rent to own…worked out good for us. 80% for 3-4 months back into purchase price. We then paid out for ownership. Good luck!
I've done RPO's on new and used. Depending on the deal it's a better deal to RPO a used machine instead of a new one in my experience. The new pieces of iron I've looked at going RPO carried a higher interest rate at purchase time than a straight purchase. Like any iron purchase ya' gotta put a pencil to it.
Deal we made is very simple, rental starts Nov 13th or 14th and come Jan 1st 2026 ill be either handing them a check for 380k or pay their rental rate and return both machines. Each machine is $190k and if I can get 60 hours a week from them for 6 weeks they will be 3/4 of the way paid off before I even cut the check to buy them. That's even being generous because of the holidays. The potential to have them both bring in 190k each before I cut the check to buy them is very real.
Buy American lol
Are any large name brand excavators made in the US? I though most if not all are based on Japanese designs and made there.
Komatsu PC490 hoes are made in Tennessee.
Just the 490? I wonder how many they sell in US/N. America vs other countries?
Cat and Deere are the only manufacturers with a global headquarters in the U.S.A. Engineering, manufacturing, and assembly happens across the globe. Deere also just broke with Hitachi and don't have a clean sheet design yet, so their available excavators are still Hitachi. Cat would be the brand if you wanted to support the most U.S. involved manufacturer as far as employees and taxes paid.
Small update, SANY machines were delivered about mid day Friday and have been working since. Finished the day out Friday loading sand then switched them over to blasted ledge for Saturday and Today. One of my crew has been on the same one since Friday for a total of 24 hours already. Feedback so far is the seat is a little thin but otherwise he's fine with the machine so far. The other machine has had a few operators with myself logging the most time between yesterday and today. I agree, the seat is thin after sitting in it for 10+ hours straight. Other than that these machines are quick and pretty smooth overall. Doing better on fuel than I expected, about 9 gallons per hour so far running wide open rowing the bucket through somewhat loose material. Have not had them into any kind of heavy breakout ground yet. And for you CAT guys, I am now also the owner of two used 345B machines. Was tipped off about two very well maintained 345 up for sale and went to check them out. They are very well maintained for 16,000hrs and 19,000hrs. Grabbed them both for 100k as that was a great deal.
If it fit, I'd bet those old 345s would toss around the bucket off those Sanys just as well.
Ill let you know. New buckets in the 4yd - 4.5yd range are on the list to buy today. 345s will be delivered tomorrow or Wednesday. The Sanys with 3.9yd buckets are easily outworking my 8,000hr Hitachi 550 with 4.4yd bucket.
Took a little longer to get buckets but I ended up with 66" wide, 3.8yd, Esco buckets for the 345 Cats. Very nice machines and the previous owner spared no expense taking care of them. I put them both on the sand/gravel extraction and moved one Sany over to blasted ledge as its much quicker with cycle time and has considerably more bucket breakout. Right now im 100% buying the Sany machines. The price is right and their performance matches. Only complaint from any of my crew as well as myself is the standard seat, so I discussed with dealer and they're ordering the optional thicker heated/cooled seat for both machines at no charge.
I guess no one considers the moral or geopolitical aspect of purchases these days, especially high dollar durable goods. When we're all sitting in a Chinese concentration camp I guess you'll have plenty of time to think about it....
I wont turn down any machine someone else buys for me. You or anyone else has until Jan 5th 2026 to buy me the geopolitically correct brand machine and save western civilization.
Sniff sniff, whine whine! Glad those awesome Sany machines are working for you. The heated cooled seats are spectacularly awesome to use, sitting in a machine for hours on end. The only issue I have had with those seats are the little holes for the air movement. Do not spill anything, even diarrhea, as it will magnify the smell. Lol
The standard seat is heated, just a little thin on the base cushion. I was going to just have them reupholstered, but the dealer is willing to fit them with the optioned seat at no extra cost. After the initial chaos of setting the site up ill be pretty good at keeping the same guy in the same machine by majority so any mess they make they'll have to live with the smells.
I am kind of surprised that, with the new tarrifs, these Sany machines are still available at a lower price. I would think the price would now be considerably higher on them. I understand and support, "Made in America". But, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
According to my dealer they assemble a good majority of their lineup right in Georgia. Puts them on the same tariff playing field as the domestics that import parts to assemble here into a complete machine. Tags on the SY500 models ive got now say China though so probably not a model they assemble in Georgia.
The overhead of the major brands, I believe is the reason for the high price, my cat dealer looks like it is always expanding and I have no less that 30 different people from parts,sales, field service and so on that I may have to call to get something done, my sany dealership I have 3, parts, sales and service ( my cousin never did respond about the longevity of the bigger machines ,he quite frequently sees my texts, moves on and forgets to circle back). My payment for my sany was about $100.00 more than the payment for the cat equivalent and I would have had a $30k buy out in April 2027 but with sany I am paid off in April 2026 and still have another year on my warranty, the sany was about $28k less than the cat. No need to pay more money just for the name unless there is some other value associated with that name. I get great customer service from both maybe better with cat but I also press them harder and treat them like the big company that they are expect more cause I paid more.
One reason is resale value.
While my last post was obviously a hyperbole, the fact is where we spend our money does matter. Every time you buy something you are voting with your pocket book, the larger the amount the bigger the vote. When you buy from Sany or other Chinese companies, your money is going back to China and indirectly the CCP. They like your money, but that is it. I personally don't want to further the agenda of a government that hates our freedom, our political system, our economic system and our way of life. I won't even get into their horrible working conditions, cyber terrorism, complete disregard for intellectual property, etc. Part of the reason we are headed down this road in the first place is an ever growing number of consumers want everything cheap, they want it now, and they don't care about anyone else. Their bottom line is the only thing that matters, to hell with the everyone else, our country, our future. It seems like this is now the mentality of not only most individuals but also many businesses. Obviously your mind is made up, but I hope others reading this thread in the future take at least a little time think about where their money is going and what it means in the big picture. One purchase may not seem like it makes a difference, but multiplied by many that have the same mindset, over many years, it certainly does.
I looked at the Sany when I was shopping. I think the doosan/develon/Bobcat quality was better than sany.
Speaking just for my position I would still be close to 100k in the negative even being able to sell the CAT machine when im done. The price spread is just that much between both brands whether I buy brand new or comparably used in the 1,500hr and under range. Used market listings for 6-8 year old CAT 349 and 352 with 15,000hr or more are not looking to return more than 100k in resale. Im into a CAT machine for almost 200k more than a SANY if I buy new and between 200k and 250k if I buy used. From the numbers I have now from the current market the CAT will outright cost me more. Only thing that could bring it around is very expensive repairs on the SANY.
I don't see any Sany in your sig
There is no context in the written word so don't take offense to my response but in this day and age it is nearly impossible to buy only American made products and when you can, much like this example it is financially irresponsible to do so. I see so much waste in daily life. My cat field service guys and Sitech leave there trucks running the entire time they are here they take there service trucks home at night, most of them live at least a hour out side of town, when I go in to the dealership,I see people walking around, huddle up chatting about their kids and so on. I personally am trying to get a head in life and buying that American machine puts me behind the curve when I could almost purchase 2 machines for the same price or a beat up used machine that cost the same as this brand new one with a warranty. I don't expect a fortune when I sell it but that is ok I made my money with it and it was half the effort to make the payment or in my case it gave me the extra money to add the grade controls. I am still not at the base price for the cat equivalent.
This thread became slightly political... I am also from a high cost country. I too buy from China, not large stuff like excavators though. What I have come to realise... Some of the stuff from China is of very low quality. Other stuff is very good. A LOT of oem parts for western equipment is made in china. In my professional field when I order parts for/from a very large USA originating multinational company I see that a lot of the parts are made in low cost countries like China and Mexico. Some are made in like France, Germany, USA etc. What I see is that China is a very large country with either or both a very efficient production line due to mass production or alternatively lower efficiency production but with low wage workers and/or very low cost production facilities. I also feel the overhead in China is much lower than in western countries. And, I am damned sure that chinese companies is satisfied as long as they can pay their bills, but western companies is only satisfied after their ceo's and other executive personell have received multi million dollar yearly so called "compensations" AND the total profit margin is at least ten percent, but more like twenty percent. I see this hunt for ever increasing executive pay, ever increasing stock price and ever increasing overall profit margin as the biggest problem making many western companies unable to compete on price/quality with chinese companies.
I'd wager at least 65% of small items people buy come from China. Forget big ticket items, small items no one thinks about add up to a whole lot more than the big items. Many American companies get their products or components for their products from China. This includes Cat. If something happened where absolutely no products from China were allowed to come into N. America, would be devastating. The quality of living would go way down because people couldn't afford to have the things they have now. Just have to look at the price of tools to get an idea. Professional mechanics could/would have high end expensive tools because they make their money with them. People who just like to fix their own things aren't going to be able to afford $10K or more just for basic tools. Who wants to pay $100 to buy a wrench they need to heat and bend to replace a hyd. hose. Everything would be so expensive if it all had to come from the US/N. America. There's not a country in he world that is self supportive. It's a global economy. I think things could be a lot better though. What irks me is products that used to be made in N. America moving their production to China yet the price doesn't come down. The quality may or may not be the same. Milwaukee cordless tools are fairly expensive in my opinion and they're made in China. If they were made in the US I expect the price would be out of reach for a lot of people who have them now.
Ill update as soon as they're mine. Dont want them on the books until next year for that white bearded uncle of ours.
Great discussion guys. I do agree on most points but lets try not to get this thread closed or edited down with a bunch of posts missing leading future readers to wonder who's responding to what. Being in business with a crew of 13 full time and another 3 part time, I have to compete with others. I wouldnt even be able to have purchased the land we are on now and have my full crew secured with work for at least the next 6 years. Call me cheap, call me anti domestic brands, but at the end of the day ive always beat my competition and kept my guys working for the past 27 years in business.
You have to do what works for you as long as it's ethical. Running and keeping a business afloat is no small task. Add employee's and everything else to the mix and it's a real balancing and sanity act. Some people would rather not have the hassle and prefer to work for someone else. Sadly there are some real shysters out there.
good that you have a niche there were you can keep your guys busy. The bottom line is how well they do the job without much in the way of unscheduled repairs, and the availability of parts and service. That is the big leveler here.
Luckily at this point in the business ive got "extra" in resources and machines to have that luxury of not stressing over interruptions as others would. Machine goes down and repair is a ways out we just move it aside and pull one of the golden oldies to pick up the slack. My goal by the 1st quarter of next year is to have all of my 30 ton excavators as extras. They can sit here and there while we focus on the main project using the new 50 ton excavators. They dont owe me anything but will be invaluable if they are needed. Same with my older wheel loaders, one or two can sit as a contingency plan while the newer two are utilized. Im in talks now with my local Develon to purchase a whole bunch of brand new stuff for next year, excavators, haul trucks, and loaders. The project has expanded much further than originally anticipated when I was just looking for another 50 ton excavator.
There was a conversation a long time ago here about Sany and other Chinese companies. At the time, Sany had just recently made a big push into NA. They had a large presence at Conexpo that year. The equipment wasn't that good then. I said that the Chinese will get it together, that their quality will improve, and I thought that most of those improvements would be on the backs of other companies world wide, but mostly North American OEM's (through patent theft and so forth). But regardless, at the end of the day, they have come here to compete and they are.
Drove by one of the larger Equipment Share lots in my area that were full of Sany's a few years ago that are now full of Linkbelts and Deere's. Take that info along with $2 and one can buy a cup of coffee.
For me personally, I can load a ton of material out per shift with an old spade bucket 988B if the pit floor can take it. I did 90,000 yards of topsoil for a landfill cover job and the farm held up OK. Couple hundred 8 axle trucks on a good day. It was farm stripping so I had a couple of dozers heaping it up for me. A big hoe on the right cut can beat it, but having it around is priceless.
Ive got a 9050, and 9050B that I bought 2.3yd buckets for when I started this project. We dont measure in yards but instead tons. The 9050B was loading out about 4,400 tons in a 10 hour shift before the SANY SY500's showed up. The older 9050 has been on clearing the whole time but I cant imagine it would be far behind. I also purchased two newer JCB JS370LC that easily outwork both older 9050. Right now the two JS370 and 9050B are on clearing while the 9050 and a JS300 sit the sideline with on/off use clearing. Two Cat 345 and one Sany SY500 are on sand/gravel, one SY500 and Hitachi EX550 are on ledge. One Michigan L190 is on crusher duty soon to be replaced by two Kawasaki 115zv. My three old Macks are being used as haul trucks right now and eventually replaced with one Bell B50 and two or three Develon DA45.
Topsoil never got weighed it just did not weigh up, it cubed up. So yards it was. The game there was to stuff it as full as I could and still have freeboard. There was a college kid manning a water spray bar as they exited, so they did not have to tarp.
A lot of people seem to mistake the whole 'Made in China' issue to mean you can buy made in USA for top dollar or made in China for bottom dollar, but those are only the two extremes. While I do buy made in USA whenever I can, I also buy from other top tier manufacturing countries such as Japan, Germany, UK, Canada, etc. For 'cheap' things I'll gladly buy them from Taiwan (they make some good stuff too), Mexico, India, Korea, basically anywhere but China. I just don't feel good about supporting our biggest adversary. Yes, it's unavoidable to get some things made in China and many components on 'good brands' come from China, but when given the choice I avoid it. Next time any of yall go through Harbor Freight which is notorious for selling made in China stuff, start looking at the labels. You'll find many things (usually the higher quality stuff) is made in India, Taiwan, even the USA. Usually, but not always, there are alternatives to things made in China. Yes they cost more, but are often better quality too. I learned long ago the cheapest item is rarely the best value. This seems to hold true whether it's something as small as a zip tie or a light bulb, or as expensive as a large piece of machinery. Buy once, cry once. That said, sometimes the most expensive is the best value, but sometimes it's not. I don't own any Cat equipment, because I think their prices are unreasonable for what you get. Maybe in some of the large equipment the value is there, but in the size equipment I run I just don't see it. There are other brands made in USA or Japan that make very good equipment for the money.
Hell, we all get it. China is a communist country that doesn’t have our best interests at heart. I wish everything I bought could be made here but oftentimes, that isn’t even possible. Unfortunately when it comes to big ticket items, you have to look at everything. Sometimes the initial cost, is not the only component to the pie. Those Sany machines, will not be worth much when you’re done but whatever they are worth, is free money, free interest, cash. This whole thread was much smaller, half million, now we’re into THE millions. Good luck, hope your kids take this over soon, so you can retire.
Thank you for the thought. Unfortunately the family has no interest in this type of work. My #2 for the past 27 years will be buying me out down the road probably 4 or 5 years. Ill then step down into the CFO/COO position in his company. I have no plans to truly retire, I love this work.
Not trying to stir the pot with this but all brands have a Chinese heavy-handed involvement. Caterpillar China Investment Co Ltd has been registered to Caterpillar since the 90s. John Deere China Investment Co Ltd exists as well. They both have engineering, manufacturing, and financial headquarters in China paying into the CCP exorbitantly.
https://www.caterpillar.com/en/company/global-footprint/china.html#:~:text=Caterpillar%20core%20products%20manufactured%20in,at%20several%20facilities%20in%20China. I think the point was that sany is Chinese owned and the other major brands are not.
I'm well aware of that, China is a big market and everybody wants a piece of the pie. While I don't agree with it, what they do over there is their business. What I'm especially not a fan of is them bringing models from China back to the US. The new mid-sized Cat 307 and 310 excavators sold in the US are 100% made in China, and they don't even try to hide it. I do think the events of the past 5 or so years have made some companies give pause to their operations in China, Russia, etc. They realize between tariffs, shipping disruptions, cyber threats and possible take overs that their operations and supply streams aren't as safe as they once thought. I've noticed numerous things previously made in China have now switched to Mexico, a whole host of other Asian countries, South American companies, even Middle-East and Africa. Basically anywhere they can find relatively cheap labor with lower risk.
As someone who has been around a lot of big iron for many years many of which was in a 7 day a week 24 hours per day application, I can tell you that service and support was an extremely important aspect of our purchase decisions. Parts, properly trained service techs and also don't discount factory support and we ran into a lot of issues requiring research and help from the factory including warranty issues. I would just be very comfortable with those issues as sometimes it is not just about the initial price. In addition you should research a bit on parts pricing as the machine will break down and sometimes there can be huge differences in component part pricing. Good luck with your decision.
Well said. I'm not even a medium sized operation by any means but I have experienced pretty much everything you described from a well stocked parts warehouse to getting the manufacturer involved when we had a few serious issues. It's the reason I pretty much only buy Cat equipment. One instance my dealer had Cat pay for a rental excavator while one of ours was down waiting on duo cone seals. It was this time of year and it was also the first time I found out Japanese manufacturing pretty much shuts down the entire month of December. The duo cone seals were for a 321DL (still have it) that was covered under a recall and on backorder. Dealer arranged for Cat to pay the rent on one of their 314's for 2 months while we were down. So this is one of several reasons I am a "Cat guy" - hard not to be.
So far so good for an update. Been over 5 months using the two Sany SY500 excavators without issue. Over 1,000hrs each so far. Been able to keep them working 7 days a week since late February with only planned downtime for service. Guys like them and They have paid for themselves more than 5x over already. Ill update again in December.
We never saw any pictures of your operation. I know you said a video was being made . Did you ever complete it?
No wonder our country is over 38 trillion in debt.
I think you need to look into your country's M.I.C spending.
I think we don't need to turn this into a political thread.
Right on .No difference from Hitich,Komatsu remember 90's Daewoo tv,cars,rifles & equipment or Samsung helicopter cab excavators? Past was on Daewoo excavator same any other Asian machine. Sany is the new yesterday
Back when Hitachi was sending backhoe's here straight JD 310c but Isuzu diesel half the cost
With that kind of ROI you could have easily bought top of the line name brand equipment. Things look good now but when it comes time for a major/complex repair or resale I think you'll be singing a different tune.
Yes, the footage is complete. Company I have doing it is working on editing out all the sub contractors that don't want their presence on film. 30+ haul contractors and various others so taking longer than any of us would like
That has been my experience. Had a Kubota KH and a Daewoo Solar back when they were labelled cheap. Great machines I had no big problems from. Repowered both once and rebuilt everything on the Daewoo at least once in the 22k hours I put on it. Sold both last year still working fine just because they are now too small for my operation. Ended up getting eyes on a Sany SY500 with 11k hours on it over the winter. It was up in Vancouver BC. I was out there seeing Family in Tacoma already so took the ride over the line into Canada to see it. Wasn't worn out junk by any means and they were still using it while for sale.
If you look after them and they go to what is considered higher hours (12-15,000+) without a major breakdown for any brand you can't really complain. You can count your savings though. The savings would certainly help when it's time to replace them too.
What are your thoughts on the 380E now?
So far I have not used it myself. Put the 3.3yd bucket on it that I had from the CX350D I traded in a while back and its doing within 150 tons per hour of the 50 ton machines. Uses about 1.5-2 gallons less per hour than the QSG12 Cummins Sany's. I wasnt looking for it. It was a deal that fell through and dealer was eager to move it because it was setup with the short stick. I went in for a used CX290 to run a hammer and ended up with the CX380E also.
Still no pictures of your operation.