I want to get away from doing mechanic work. I like the work but hate every thing else that gos along with it but i would like to know how others have dealt with problems like how do you charge for haveing to make trips to look at something or for some reasone you or customer or the parts place got the parts messed up so you had to make more trips to do the job,or the other things that can go wrong that makes the job take longer? I have spent hours and hours looking for parts how do you charge for your time looking for stuff?
tough question, I struggle with it all the time, parts order not correct, parts dept forgot something, order not complete, wrong part in box. Not customers fault- not mine but parts supplier says sorry after 40 mile trip. ***???? Good business practice if your working on a customers job time should be billed to customer, if I or an employee makes mistake I eat it, I don't like eating other peoples mistake.
Like overworked. If I screw up I eat it. If customer had parts , well they eat it. If parts supplier screws up I eat it most of the time. And well I will just say most of my supplier cringe when I walk back in with parts cause they know what's coming. So some will work with me on price.
I haven't figured out the chasing parts charge yet. It's though. But most of the time I figure it as part of my labor.
Yair . . . Your client/customers problem shouldn't become your problem. I believe any time spent poring over parts-book or screen working out a parts list is chargeable time. So too is travel time and procurement. If you have to drive around town chasing bits its up to the customer to pay, you probably could have been billing time on other jobs. When ever possible I got the customer to chase stuff up and pay for it or charge to their account. Keep records. It has to show up on the paperwork. Itemise book/computer time and travel time in clear detail to the minute be fair but don't grant any favours . . . this Bull****e where I get handed an invoice with labour or machine time rounded up to the hour cuts no ice with me. If they don't like it tell them tough . . . that's the way it works. Cheers.
I have thought many times about being on my own. You guys keep bringing up all the good points about being under the company shield. It is nice here. That being said, I have progressed up the ranks to lead and am starting to quote repair jobs. I am still lacking as you have to bill in a CYA bumper and get everything ordered right the first time. Quoting is billed to the customer as well. Even under the umbrella, my time is still billable hours.
The problems are probable about the same for any one in the repair business. One of my bigest problems on most of the stuff that i work on is the cost of a repair is more than the thing is worth. Several times i have gave a estimate on fixing some thing and was told to go ahead and after i had it tore down was told not to fix it.
Everything about heavy equipment has a cost and someone has to pay it. If you are an independent, the customer is getting the benefit of not having an employee of your capability with the inherent and potential costs associated with that employee. I look at it from the point of if their own employee had made the mistake, would they still have to be paid? If that answer is yes then they get billed for it. On most jobs I guarantee my work so if a mistake was mine, I own up to it and move on. Some jobs I don't guarantee my work because I have been directed to do something that I din't agree with. At that point the customer is assuming all risks. What did help me when I started out was a paper hand out with all my charging information. A new customer gets that paper and is told to read it. They agree to those terms before I start a job or they look for someone else. Plenty of customers like to leave things in a state of gray and then whine after they get a bill. The piece of paper with the terms of service makes everything black and white.
JohnC., do you make them sign a copy and do you keep it on file? I was thinking of something of that sort, just something to put it all up front, and then to remind them when the whining starts. Once worked for a company the owner wanted us to handle all machines from pm to major repairs, undercarriage, engine, trans ect. Owner said don't call me, do like it was yours. " you Keep machines up and running, i can make more money" , when great for 4 years, owner stepped away from the office and handed to other people and down hill it went FAST, were out of picture and they got machines broken down here and there, new bean counter keeps renting equipment. We have taken apart so many over the years that never got put back together.
Sounds in some ways like the big company I work for. Upper level manager thinks you make money by not spending any. Had a speed reducer we knew was on it's last legs in the fall before shut down one year. Tried to get permission to order new one, no way! Then part way into the next season guess what fails? This is a fairly large reducer for a conveyor belt, think it is run by a 100 horse motor. When this goes down can only run second half of plant for maybe two days. We are in New York and the nearest one is in Florida so they decide to order it next day air! Sure save money doing that huh? This wasn't the first time this kind of thing has happened and wasn't the last. Reason given for not replacing before failure? "Need to get full utilization out of equipment!"
I feel the days of winter maintenance have long gone by. It's all patch as needed.
Overworked, you just summed it all up.
When I was doing the independent stuff real heavy I would get a signature. When the customer list settled into the people I wanted and not those I needed so I could make a house payment I slacked off. At any rate I think your idea of a signature and a carbon copy is great. Good Luck!
When I screw up or parts that I provide get screwed up by the parts guys I except responsibility. When the problem is under the control of the owner I charge for anything I do for them. As far as charging for parts I either charge my normal rate for looking up and ordering parts if the customer is paying for parts directly or if they are paying me for parts I charge a mark-up. As far as new customers I treat each case by case, the first phone call they usually get the $100/hr $1/mile rates given to them or they get a "ballpark" figure to fix what the problem may be, I always try to scare the new customers a bit with inflated numbers so I can surprise them when it comes in less! I don't quote work to get work! I quote work to make money! I have only been independent for five years and have plenty of horror stories with this stuff already. My rates reflect the average I need to make a living and eat some stuff on the way, that being said I am always one large oops! from being on someones payroll...............TIO
Overworked you said it. I've been sitting home on lay-off while there are machines sitting at work with parts needed to make the repairs just sitting there. It was suppose to be just a two week deal around the holidays but now it's getting to the end of Jan and I still don't have a positive call-back date. Would not mind it as much but I know the one machine that is being used is 40 hours over due, Vision Link let's me check that from home, for engine oil change and it is still being run everyday.
When you go back the machines will be broke and management will be wanting you to jump through hoops to get them fixed.
A couple things come to mind. Please note, I am not a professional mechanic, just a backyard DIY'er that surfs these forums. 1st, Yes, you have to charge the customer something for sourcing parts. As and independent mechanic, you have the best connections to find who and where to get the parts from. You gotta charge something for this. I am not certain you can charge your normal hourly rate but you have to charge something. 2nd, Getting the wrong parts, VERY FRUSTRATING! If it all possible, I try to bring the parts I need to the supplier and match them up on the counter before exchanging any $$$ Yes, I have gotten the same "sorry" treatment. What really frustrates me sometimes is the mark up some of them charge! Yes, I want to keep the locals in business, but 300% markup for chinese aftermarket parts ... come on ... Sorry, another discussion 3rd, If you get any flack from the customer/client "You charged me XXX to locate the parts!" "Yes sir I did, I learned you have an X that has a part that was outsourced to Y when they made it. So we had to contact Z dealer to supply the part. I recommend you call Z dealer and keep one of those parts in stock since I think they told me it is a common failure" Let the customer try to source the parts My famous 2 cents
Moonlite, Do you work for the same company as I do? They have US headquarters in you state. The one big kicker is they want the work done but heaven forbid if you wanted to work some OT to get job done, that's a big NO NO. They would rather hire an outside contractor at $95 an hour than pay me a third of that on OT. I'd love to see the spreadsheet they use to explain how that saves money. PS: As I have said before I have no problems with the outside contractors being hired just a problem with them coming in to do a job I or other guys I work with are well equipped to do and we are sitting home all to save paying us OT.
In the same time it took to find a part a mechanic could be working on something,finding a cure for the common cold or picking the winning lottery numbers. Its not easy to look at it this way. I worked on a machine that was going to be replaced so a cheap fix was needed. I spent 16 hour hunting for used parts and found them for scrap iron price. I thought i would sale them the parts and make $1000.00 off the parts saveing them $2000.00 and every one would be happy but before i got paid a operater had a screw up and broke it agin. I got paid for the first time and was told to get it fixed right away so i bought $3600.00 worth of new parts and they havent replaced it yet.
Well found out today they called in one of the sub contractors in to do the oil change, would love to know how much the bill is for that! Everything needed to do the job is sitting on our shelf and I sitting here all of one mile from the shop. Might have to give a little more thought into retirement. I turn 64 end of April and was planning on staying till I was 66 to get max-SS but might be time to pull the plug and move the tool box home.
The office boys probably don't want to do the paperwork of having someone back for a day with the unemployment.
Just wanted to toss in my two cents here, I hire some independents from time to time, I don't do independent mechanic work, keep this in mind when you read this. Depending on who screws up should determine who pays in my book, if the mechanic screws up he should buck up and suck it up, admit what he did and move on, people are not stupid, now that said, the customer hiring an independent is getting the work done cheaper, and to a certain extent has more control over the project so to speak, if I want to kill the job mid way through, I can and just leave it sit, if its in a dealership its not as easy to do this, a major reason why some do hire independents in the first place, they can see the project progress and see the parts put in or pay for them as he goes by providing the parts for the mechanic, either way the customer is getting the service and parts cheaper than oem no matter how you look at it. I like the idea of a price sheet up front, and to sign it, not so much as you guys look at it but that way I know what I'm going to charged and how and have something in writing. I do the same thing on my end of working for others with the machines. I have them sign a work authorization order. As for the mechanic screwing up that's pretty simple in my book eat the costs, as for parts suppliers screwing up, charge that to the customer if he told you where to get them from, but if you have a kick back on parts then you eat the screw ups, if your charging a markup, you should eat that screw up, your gaining on that transaction, thus your gain is also your loss, if you don't charge mark up prices, get a discount or kickback in any way,charge the customer, remember he's getting a discount by hiring you in the first place. I like two different rates, one for wrenching and one for looking up parts, most of the guys that work for me, have two rate scales, one during the day that they charge me for wrenching and the other when they are in their shop or house looking up parts and numbers to order stuff, usually after hours and their done for the day, but everyone does it differently. Try to treat others like you'd like to be treated, remember everyone screws up sometime, whether its your fault or someone else that makes you look badly as the result, just be honest and tell the customer what happened and hash it out, you also need to remember oem's screw up too and it all gets tacked on the customers bill in end and he's none the wiser, or so they think. If your dealing with used or aftermarket parts, I'd first determine who's in charge of getting them and also the deducted price, if your getting a mark up or a discount, you should shoulder the mistake, if the customer is paying for them outright or isn't being charged a markup or you get nothing but the wrenching, then the customer should pay for those screw ups and time involved, again in my thoughts only. I basically tell my independents, if your getting a markup or discount and making money off the parts, your shouldering the mistakes, if I'm not charged any markup's and I'm getting the parts, I pay for the time if things are wrong or am sending them to go get the stuff and its wrong that I pay for. I try to keep thing simple and plain as possible, if there's a problem, I also expect to know about it right away, not weeks or months later down the road after the bill comes or we have time to go over it. I also expect to pay for things when I tell someone to order the parts and I decide to kill the project midway through, if I didn't tell them to order them and they just went ahead and did it on their own, I don't expect to pay for those parts, its called communication and I'll admit there are days its hard to keep up with changing conditions, I also expect to have to pay the labor till I tell them to quit, either part way through or till the jobs done. On most jobs I don't know about we call them exploratory surgeries and we proceed with caution and also time, on other jobs we just go ahead and fix them no matter the problem.
randy88, I agree and you said all that pretty well..................TIO
Not sure if this would be considered screw up charges but defintly lack of knowledge. You can't charge customers for education. So how would you bill your time.? Not something you messed up just something you have never dealt with. Like an odd ball safety system.
Kshansen I am now an independent but I worked for a big green rental company for 9 yrs. no overtime but would spend money outsourcing thing we could do.
Moonlite, Very good thought. This is how it works for me. The customer calls and says I have a problem with X, I say I have never worked on X, but I have worked on lots of Y's which are probably a lot the same, I am sure I can figure it out but if I am spending to much time on it then we can stop at anytime. Now on a very specific occasion a customer had a no start problem with his 3406e in his kenworth, I spent about three hours trying to connect to his ecm with my laptop before I realized there was something wrong with my data-link, this became 3 hours of no-charge. The customer would have never known, he wasn't even around, I am honest and he knows it........TIO
DID YOU FIX THE PROBLEM? get it up & working? then charge accordingly!!! if not then you are probably going to loose on that service run.. best to talk it out with the customer. say I had a trip out sorry I wasn't able to fix the problem. maybe say how bout fuel money? etc? most customers are very understanding bout what it takes to keep a truck running down the road..
theironoracle i live about 70 miles from any kind of a dealer that has the stuff that it takes to fix alot the newer stuff. I am ask all the time to look at something that i have never worked on before. I do my best not to work on it but its almost a fight trying to get out of it. Now days there is so many different kinds of cars,trucks,tractors and equipment and allso most small companys are not brand loyal.One place i work has 11 trucks and only 2 have the same engine. I have allmost a pickup load of manuals on stuff that is no longer in use and i hate to buy any new ones because it may only be used one time.
I bill customers to do our best, not to be perfect, sometimes they pay for our "education", that goes with hiring an independent. When its something new, especially electrical and customer has no books and can't wait to get said books then they are paying my rate for my present knowledge. If we spend 8 hours and last three because we overlooked something, or end up with two guys and two trucks on job I usually cut it down to a fair deal then we both pay for the schooling. Customer has to be as fair and understand also, usually those jobs are after 5pm or on weekends when they can't wait so they are getting special service already.
Wholesalers and Parts suppliers are the reason I am not wealthy. They are too big, don't have to be competitive, and could care less. It is also getting worse, not better. Whenever I come across a good partsman I let him know, and the management too.
Another thing to keep in mind is how often r u paying to educate the dealer guys. I know I've worked with many of them that knew way less than I do about certain machines and they charge 2 to 3 times as much as I do. Just another angle to look at things...