Felt this actually belongs elsewhere but still fits here. Several older garage owners I know, a few in Body Shop and Tow industries have been enlightening as to issues that come up. Electric cars are the new doom and gloom for them. One fella has had his own Auto service garage for close to forty five years not too far from here, placed the facility and equipment up for sale wanting to retire. Reduced the price after languishing for four months no offers to a point may just close it, lock the door and pay taxes against declining real estate value, that he notified the City and County he is in as to that. Current Garage facilities insurers will not touch coverage as to Electric Auto or Truck repairs. He found as have friends with body shops that Electric machines will require massively higher stake conditional clauses and fees, specialized equipment and for body men, Organic Paints and repair compounds. Tire shops are not excluded where Tesla sells the only available tire for their autos inside their shops. To be certified as a Repair shop, the workers will have to have Electrician Credentials, and each Certificate holder Insured by his Own Insurer as to Bodily Harm. One wrecker service was explained to remove any Tesla or Prius or Leaf as well any forth coming machines from their conventional storage lot, would be required to be sequestered from anyone else's machines for liability. Gas station owners here have notified the City they may decline to make updates as Petroleum autos wane and electrics take over, the few here are not looking to add charging stations either as Costly.
That is troubling. Let the games begin
Kinda what “they” want: force our hand and compel change.
A repair shop with towing I worked for years ago is in the same bucket. Two years ago he sold both of his 50 ton towing units. In this case he got tired of doing law enforcement tows, responding to WSP calls to tow a bagged out semi off the freeway that the owner doesn't want to repair so it's abandoned, and he is out the money for the tow plus his business is basically a junk vehicle/garbage disposal for the state. And now with the EV issue as Dave stated above he got rid of 2 other units plus is narrowing the type of work coming into the shop. He figures another 5 years and he will close it down.
Several rebuilders are closing was the last conversation we had. The demand for reman engines and trans remains high where decent cores, decent technicians and unable to adequately recoup money as no one wants to pay given expense levels so end up discounting to move aging inventories. Environmental fees are becoming untenable. Tow shop had a 750 Holmes lattice, a later model tandem hydraulic extend and a Rotator for accident recovery, All are gone, sold to a competitor as just could not manage liability insurance. Still has a couple roll backs but none bigger than pickup truck capacity on bed. Is really spooking many. Patriot Towing out of Washington MO and I-44 service out of St Clair get much of the tow work. Neither manage to retain drivers very long.
When I leave the owner plans on selling the Red, Blue and Yellow-- Super Man. Doesn't want to worry about liability or just finding someone to operate it. But on the other side of the issue the new Penske operated shop is leaving a lot to be desired by the non comment look on his face. When he had the building designed Penske was involved, well it's too short. It has no 100' bay for tractor and trailer to be serviced at one time. DUMB. A full service is taking 4 hours with no extras. We use to pull a service on both pieces at one time plus at least one axle of brakes in a total of 1.5 hrs for both with some tires thrown in. Plus he got conned into paying a flat fee for labor for each piece of equipment each month. $180 bucks per trailer just for basic grease job, if the trailer or truck doesn't make it in on time in 30 days he just ate that cost, $33,000 each month. NUTS.
Tried to forewarn. Penske is not anyone's friend.
You really got to work on your "sugar coating " That's a grim future you're painting. The politicians and alphabet mafia need to back off. Americans shouldn't have to bow to these insane mandates. I'm all for clean air, but there's better ways to achieve it.
Yah-stuff a sock in the mouth of the gas bags who created it.
DM this thread topic is probably better served in the General Industry forum as it does pertain to the HE/Trucking business overall. Moved it over there.
Thanks CM
No problem. Interesting topic on the insurance companies and electric cars. We are about to be thrust head first into unknown territory.
A friend in the towing business here has already made a separate area to hold EV's. I didn't ask if it was state/county/city or insurance mandated.
I'm just a test or two away from being certified to working on EV's, already know their systems. I seen this coming a bit back and have been digging in to get ready just in case. To diagnose today's vehicles your need to be a tech, same with semi's and with already experience in it and there is training programs online might as well divulge in it too. Times are a changing, you are either in or out there is no stopping it by yourself..
I remember years ago the statement {Get involved with computers or become a professional at raking leaves}.
Been slapping a keyboard the past 37 years, so I'm set there. BTW I did that Bendix program got my cert online from them, wow they are eating that up at my new job along with knowing ARCOM program and others they have such as Cummins INSITE. They act like I invented the wheel.
It will be until you get into it. There just too much to know and keep currant because of constant updates. Just the recall list for PacCar and Freightliner is huge, just about the time you think you've got a handle on it they make a major change. A top Freightliner mechanic I know says he has to spend X amount of hours on his own time to keep half way currant. No body has a edge in this game. But good luck on your job.
Thanks, I don't plan on having a edge, I just plan of having a finger in the pie so at anytime I can jump into the field or leave for a bit and be still relevant when I come back. Don't want to be the carburetor mechanic trying to convince a automotive repair shop for a auto tech job that I know my ***** cause I can tune a carburetor.
https://t.me/TheVoiceofReason4ya/3492 Such a great product. $75k+ and you gotta carry a generator on board for when it dies halfway into an intersection.
I personally don’t think the whole EV thing is going to take off as quick as many are hoping/portraying. Sure there will be more of them every year, but it will still be a small minority of vehicles on the road. Your just not going to change 100+ years of petroleum technology and infrastructure overnight. In my opinion EVs are still just a ‘feel good’ purchase for most, not really practical for wide scale use. I don’t know if I’d go as far as to call them a fad as one day they could be the primary mode of transportation, but I think that is decades in the future. We as a society tend to think we are further advanced then we really are. There is a whole host of environmental, manufacturing, and infrastructure related problems with EVs that no one seems to want to talk about.
Odd-didn't I start a thread called EV's in the Truck forum a while back-discussing the same stuff again.
I don't know much about EV other than it seems like a very unrealistic plan to replace combustion engines. That being said, the powers that be are pushing in that direction but I'm inclined to believe that the EV vehicle trend will be more or less skipped for hydrogen powered vehicles. I'd be learning as much as I could about them and be up front on the mechanicing of them if I were doing such things. I don't know anything about hydrogen power either, so I don't know if they are maintenance free as EV claim to be. We'll still need body shops and mechanics to do stuff like tire changes, brake jobs, etc. for quite a while. I also think there'll be holdouts to the electric revolution for years and years to come. It'll have to be very expensive to turn me away from good ol' gas or diesel.
HeavyEquipmentForums
To me there seems like a answer to alot of todays problems and it would save the user money Birth Control.
What I can see coming, is a similar system to what the UK, EU,CN and AU use, Certified Technician papers to do anything on a Machine or any function save changing a lamp bulb. Home Owners Ruled Incapable where would be fined if caught, Gets that headed in that direction the SWHTF.
I can see that happening, especially if they pull some BS like saying you don't actually "own" the vehicle when you buy it. Then they can say you're not authorized to maintain it. I'm not at all opposed to EVs, I just don't want to be forced into something which is not able to perform on the level I need it to. I certainly don't want to pay almost 1.5x the price for it either. Technology will get there but I'm not interested until it does if that makes sense.
Its headed that way because of several things . Over complicated stuff less people wanting to diy manafactures not wanting stuff to be repaired .
The commercial general liability issue DM first posted with EV's is the elephant in the room for electric vehicles. For instance when the wife and I go down to Biloxi for the weekend we take her car as the Beau Rivage has rules against parking a truck with a slip tank in the bed in the parking deck. It has to be parked in the open lot across the street. Interesting to see if this type of rule ever applies to EVs for similar reasons.
I would expect that home insurers are going to have a special rate to insure your home if there is an electric vehicle in the driveway. Something that also will need to be addressed is the recycling of EV batteries its a dangerous and toxic process. Will the EV owner pay for it or the tax payer?
Well I know some home owners insurance policies do not automatically cover golf cart chargers in the garage. One has to get a specific rider on the policy.
I'm not down with this global agenda. Climate change may or may not be real. I'm not sold on it. We have made tremendous improvements in vehicle emissions in just my lifetime. I remember waking up and seeing a grey/brown fog just hanging over Chicago. Now. It's clear as a bell on any given day. Used to be your eyes were burning from sitting in traffic, not so, now. This whole big push for EV, even aftrr witnessing so many flooded cars burst into flames down south. How about the super cold snap we had at the beginning of winter? People had their heaters cranking and didn't understand why their range dropped significantly. I'll cling to my ICEs , I'd welcome hydrogen power if they can establish a safe infrastructure to support them. LPG CNG & the like are good alternatives. Why aren't they being pursued. The idiots in power act like electricity is free and clean. They're not authorizing any new nuke plants, fining coal plants out of existence, overworking existing hydroelectric plants. These people think the wind boondoggle is our saving grace. That and solar. What about maintenance on wind mills? I hear there's quite a bit of oil in each of those generators. How long do PV panels last? Where are they made, who profits? Thanks, but no. I think gas and diesel have a long life ahead of them. Just my humble opinion
Lets not forget where most of our juice comes from
There is conflicting information on the percentage of power being used by source. This one strikes me as the most realistic. https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php It shows coal as 22% of all. There is a graph showing the percentages for renewables as well.
One other thing showing up with insurance companies is that they are getting selective on the brands of cars they will insure. Hyundai and Kia are very easy to steal so insurance companies in this state are threatening that they will decline to insure them. My question concerns whether or not insurance companies are allowed to turn down your business. There were three people responsible for starting Tesla. I was told at conference that the forth person hired at Tesla was Musk and that the first three are now gone. One of those people started a company dedicated to recycling batteries. One of the others started a different company dedicated to recycling the cars themselves. All part of the plan?
Lots of miss information on EVs whether you for or against them. Dmiller added some new things to think about. I don't think any changes in insurance or anything that puts EVs in a bad light will be "general knowledge". IE all of our premiums will just rise to cover the costs of the risks of those that choose to have EV's. There will be no Riders or "EV fees". After all your taking about industries that are regulated and licensed by our government and foreign governments. They know it's best for them not to rock the boat. The USA car culture is about to change a big way. Things that we think are not possible could easily happen. I biggest reason for thinking this is looking at today's younger generations. I got family and employees that didn't start driving until well into there 20s and the hate it on top of that. I'm not sure how accurate the information I saw was on hydrogen but the issue is fuel storage. Tank sizes make it problematic. As far as power generation is concerned look at TX. Since we have our own grid you can see what "green" energy has done to us. As if a few years ago wasn't bad enough this year we got hammered again. The true issue with our grid was a bit more clear this year though. The worst affected area is Austin. They have their own green power grid "separate" from the rest of the state. The only thing constant in life is change... like it or not.
Can state what my own insurance rep sent us in a Form Letter from MO FB, DO NOT place a EV or any form of Lithium Battery fed device inside the Home Garage. All my LiIon tool batteries or in the shop on a metal chest or on a charge rack on a metal structure. Home Owners policy will be VOIDED should a EV be placed within a Insured Structure on the property, rep reinforced the Company will cancel any and all policies where a EV is placed, Will NOT insure EVs at all..
Below is just probably a best example of true/constant renewable energy. Turbine at Lower Granite Dam on the Snake River. Weight 400 tons with 6 adjustable Kaplan blades. Once the water flows past this turbine it flows to the next and the next dams on the Snake and Columbia Rivers. The actual cost to repair one of these turbines compared to the amount of revolutions plus hydroelectric power it's generated over the years is peanuts.
Here is the best chart and it has been updated annually for over 50 years. https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2022-08/Energy_2021_United-States_0.png
What if a homeowner went nuts and installed a sprinkler/fire suppression system in his or her garage.
Already required in this state for new construction, throughout the whole house.
Amount imported and exported. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=21992
Not in this state yet, or as far as I know.
I know here in illinois, we have at least 2 coal plants within 30 miles of me that are supposed to be generating for other states out west. Never understood why.
Problem with Lithium is reactivity with Water, add water need More water to need ever more water until reaction runs out. One Car fire noted on YT took over 20,000 gal water and was still cooking.
Only issue there is Distance of Transmission, unlikely that it actually is shipped out west further than N or S Dakotas, Line losses preclude further. Used to be several 500KV DC source plants that transmitted distance but then had to be rectified and significant exchange losses.
Thanks for the explanation.
Have a old map of grid Will try digging it out.
Never seen an exclusion for charging stations in this state. So far sprinklers are only required in new commercial construction and retail spaces. Basically businesses. Was told that the wind farm to the east of Ellensburg sends all that power to California. The wind farm to the west of Ellensburg is supposed to be using that power in Washington State. I don't know where the power from the wind farms in the Columbia gorge is sent to but it is massively larger. I believe the hydropower is sent throughout four or five western states.
Most of the windfarm power on the east side is integrated into the Bonneville Power Grid. But even going way back into the 70's when I would visit any of the dams on the Columbia or Snake rivers it was a rare view to see a dam in full generation mode-all turbines in use at one time. All depended on peak power usage for time of day and time of year and which area needed it.
It is all one big grid. Whoever has power to sell puts it in when the price is right, and big utilities (users) have to buy whatever their customers are consuming, and somehow they negotiate the transportation rates through the transmission lines which are like oil pipelines in a way. A bunch of people in something like a stock market exchange make these decisions hour by hour.
Water is virtually ineffective in a lithium battery fire as are other traditional fire suppression methods. The batteries feed upon themselves and generate their own heat, they most times have to burn themselves out, about the only thing you can do is protect exposures. I'm hearing some E/V owners are being prohibited by their homeowner insurance companies from parking the vehicles in their garages.
I've been looking for more info on the disposition of power and there are no specifics given, anywhere. I was on that wind farm multiple times when it was being built and all the workers I met there said the power was to fulfill California's needs as it wasn't needed in Washington State because all the hydro power was more than enough. Maybe just talk but that talk was going on through multiple company's personnel. In following the trail I found that the wind farm is owned by a company out of Spain named EDP Renewables. Its parent company is EDP Group, Portugals largest utility company. All power generated is required to be marketed by Bonneville. I have not been able to find the scope of area where Bonneville sells power in. Bonneville did just complete an agreement with someone, apparently the buyers of their power, called TC24 which has something to do with tariffs on long distance transmission of power. The language is published on line and I'm pretty decent at deciphering government speak. In that document, I have no idea what they are talking about.
I would think any shop owner with a mouse size brain would not want any sort of Lithium Ion battery anything in his shop. And the same goes for any outfit insuring any of those shops. Lithium Ion batterys need a huge oven to store them in that is capable of the heat and fumes they generate. I wonder how GM handled those freshly fitted Li Battery's in Volts that were well known to spontaneously combust? Did they park them outside real fast after the install, and miles from the factory?
It is just open market stuff mainly. You would be surprised how many power plants sit idle most of the day and the operator in there just watching TV. Then the call comes in and he turns it on to a certain level. Smaller ones are done remotely of course. Somebody in LA called and said they needed the power and were willing to pay the generator's rate. All day every day this happens. Of course they have to also pay the bill for transmission unless they own the wires themselves. Layers on layers of agreements to that, but it is just a bunch of simple transactions. Think of the grid as a convoluted network of pipes all interconnected at various tees, manifolds, and crosses, the generators are pumping water in, and the consumers are pulling water out, all at a bunch of different points on the system. Of course they control and meter where it all flows on the network, but at base, it all flows together at once. Cal ISO is the power trading pit in this area, maybe see if you can read a little on their website, I know they have some info.
My wife worked for Pacific Power & Light for 18 years, PP&L is a division of Rocky Mountain Power. The windfarms power goes into Bonneville Grid from there it's just one big power source. The wind- mills only operate as power needed for supply to any west coast states and or British Columbia. The rural co-ops are not bound by the tariffs as are other utilities. Utilities like PP&L also bought into windfarms such as the ones in Dayton Wa. Another little fact-The power in transmission lines doesn't belong to any one local utility, you can have two sharing the same transmission lines. But if a person wants to shift their power supply in a setting where power poles and lines were installed to reach their property by one utility that utility has the right to remove those poles and lines and the customer has to have the second utility install theirs. Fact-it's happened around here. Columbia REA came in here with cheaper rates because they are not bound by the tariffs and are subsidized by the public. So businesses around here got the bright idea they would switch only to find out it was going to be a PIA. And Rocky Mountain Power is owned by none other than daddy whore bucks-Warren Buffet. Which he has to see a 7% ROI so guess what got the ax----- routine grid maintenance. So when it comes to REA's everyone who isn't connected to rural electric gets to help pay for REA.
Well there goes every shop in the U.S.. Everyone on here has posted about their wonderful 6" drive monster impacts that will spin the nuts off a T Rex. Where is everyone charging and storing those monster Ion batteries-I bet in the shop service trucks some like'm so much they probably sleep with one under their pillow. One person had a photo of them all lined up with ones on a charger right next to each other. POOF.
One of my customers has a scrap yard and just last week he told me he got a letter from his insurance company not to except or attempt to "recycle" electric vehicles.
And is likely the cause of some mysterious fires. Gosh even a watch battery makes me nervous. I will never store an Li battery in a shop. Only outside for them.
IMHO, I seriously doubt there will be a discontinuance of IC engine power. That ability to grow fuel stocks from organic materials is all too simple, refilling a tractor tank with a biodiesel to return to work almost instantaneously instead of swapping a massive battery pack or awaiting a rapid charge for an hour that may not last long enough to complete a task. All too many live Out where a battery fed machine is worthless for any real sense of reality and expense beyond means where a smaller IC will provide far longer far more secure. iIRC Brazil has their own bio fuels refiners and nearly most cars run strictly on Alcohol fuels where trucks on biodiesel.
Just saw this, removes all doubts as to my not ever going to CA for anything. Will inspect and fine any vehicle that enters regardless from what state is registered, for emissions. Have to wonder, when, not if this does not clean up the LA basin, who or what will the CARB blame next?
Boy I like to see good statistics on Brazil. It's my understanding that the government mandates E22 (that changes when in short supply) . Flex fuel vehicles are still the highest % of cars sold there with very few 100% alcohol/ethanol units being sold. I also read somewhere that 100% gasoline is band in that country.
Ev s could have another potential draw back in the big city parking garage aside from fire hazards just because of there weight if it gets to a point that 30 to 40 percent of cars in a garage are ev it could mean structure overload since ev weigh 60 percent or more of an equal size standard car
The main issue that LiOn tool batteries have is when people buy the knockoff batteries. They don’t have the charge and draw protection that the legitimate OEM batteries do. One of our mechanics who is quite forgetful ran over his impact with a dozer and the battery burst into flames but it was actually easily extinguished.
Alcohol fuels will probably always require 15% gasoline for operation in the cold. If it gets cold, the alcohol will not vaporize enough for the spark to ignite and the engine will not start. So they put a little gasoline in it. That is my understanding anyway. Some sort of electric preheat would probably work also.
Yeah. But not with a water type. Water fuels the reaction. Most elements ending in "ium" cesium, magnesium and so on react violently in water.
I remember reading about A55 gasoline or diesel fuel blended with water and emulsifiers. It was 55% water by weight and supposedly any fuel injected engine could be converted for very little money to burn it. I remember Caterpillar was involved. https://www.poweronline.com/doc/a-55-additive-technology-0001 Source: Clean Fuels The A-55 Technology allows for the emulsification of petroleum products to produce A-55 Clean Fuels, which are water- or oil-phased emulsified fuels that significantly reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and other emissions. A-55 Additive The A-55 Technology allows for the emulsification of petroleum products to produce A-55 Clean Fuels, which are water- or oil-phased emulsified fuels that significantly reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and other emissions. The A-55 Technology consists of the following: A-55 Additive is a proprietary formulation that chemically binds water and petroleum products together in stable emulsions. It combines 20-30% water with heavy fuel oils for use in boilers and large diesel engines, and water with lighter oils such as diesel fuel for use in combustion turbines and smaller diesel engines. The A-55 Additive is composed of naturally occurring surfactants that are benign to the environment. A-55 Blending Units A-55 Blending Units combine water, petroleum and the A-55 Additive through a series of pumps, shear units and mixers to create A-55 Clean Fuels. They can be located on-site at a plant or off-site at a refinery or fuel terminal to produce up to 500 barrels of finished fuel per hour. A-55 Clean Fuels A-55 Clean Fuels reduce NOx emissions in boilers by 25-70% while significantly lowering particulate emissions and visible soot and smoke. They reduce NOx emissions in combustion turbines by more than 50% and by 20-50% in diesel engines, while also lowering particulate emissions. Economic Advantages The ability of the A-55 Technology to emulsify less expensive heavier oils and the ability of the REACH Technology to facilitate combustion of those oils can create cost advantages for users of A-55 Clean Fuels. Clean Fuels, 5270 Neil Road, Reno, NV 85502-6503. Tel: 775-826-8300; Fax: 775-826-8383.
If existing gasoline and diesel became uneconomic, the research has been done to use alcohol, propane, digester gas, biodiesel, emulsified fuel, hydrogen, electricity to continue to move things from point A to B. However, existing fuels are the most economical way at the moment, and these sorts of things change gradually as the pain of status quo becomes too much to bear. There are still guys running around with 1970s and 80s carbureted V8 gas powered pig trucks here and there. It makes economic sense for their operation for whatever reason.
We started that here last year. Thankfully my house was built last year and not now. What are they doing for electricity for those pumps as most disasters come with power outages? Are they doing yearly flow tests and alarm sensors? Green energies are going to cost us dearly in the future.
Green Energy is already costing me... Each month, my power bill has a "renewable energy" line item with an associated $ amount. It pays for the solar farms in cloudy North Carolina.
Good questions and I think the answer is, pretty much nothing is required because they are private homes. Despite our rural area, we have a pretty strong water district so lots of houses are on district water so no problem there. However there is no requirement for backup power for those on wells. I am in the backup power business so if people want to be safe they should engage my services I guess.
It routinely hits -30 to -35°C where I live. I've seen a few videos of Teslas refusing to charge when battery temperatures are low. If that's a common thing then I don't know how they expect us in the north to use an EV without putting it in heated storage every night during winter.
I understood they had heated batteries, or rather water cooled batteries and water cooled motors and they are using the motors in a stalled condition to generate heat, or something like that, to keep the batteries warm enough to charge. I think all lithium batteries are not allowed to be charged below 32F so any EV mfr is going to have to come up with a heating solution if they want to use their products north of the Mason Dixon line and sometimes south of it.
Mekanik, I too, followed the work of Rudolf Gunnerman. Fascinating gentleman. I ran across an article that said Caterpillar purchased all his research and patents for A-55 and Gdiesel. Then, Rudolf rode off into the Nevada sunset.
What a joke. 24 hours to fully charge a battery at 50%. This is something they need to rectify because it simply is not practical at this point.
Can’t forget the DeWalt electric mower catching fire at the world premier intro at Equip Expo. Lol
https://www.ehs.com/2021/07/morris-...gency-planning-hazardous-chemical-management/ We had this occur year before last. Emergency services were blindsided and had no clear plan to controlling, let alone suppressing a fire of lithium. I've also heard of a scrapyard that had an EV light up. They tried everything , their fire department chose to have them dig a hole and push it in and submerge it in water. It continued to burn . I believe they buried in an effort to suffocate the flames.
Reading through this subject, I have learned so much about electricity production and distribution. More than I'd have thought. Plus the government mandates compounded by poor infrastructure. Thanks DMILLER for bringing this up. Good reading material.
IMHO this whole "green energy " thing is the biggest con job ever anyway l look at it. Here in Australia years ago each state had their own electricity generation and grid mostly coal fired. Like you fellas have said that the grid has expanded to cover the country the same has happened here. So South Australia decided to go green and build wind and solar generation which is a failure shutting down their base load coal generation. At times Queensland 3500 klms away is pumping electricity there to keep their lights on using coal. Now Queensland is shutting it's coal fired generation and at times barely has enough power for this state. Meanwhile the greenies spruk the virtues of green energy but are not outraged about the thousands of trees cleared for the establishment of green energy. Hypocrisy huh Australia has some of the largest sources of uranium in the world but is only allowed to have 3 mines and all uranium is exported. I know of a location that has uranium, water and a nearby existing power grid all close to existing industrial cities. It would be an ideal location for a nuclear power station. Also near there are plenty of worked out mines so there's places to deposit the spent uranium. Mention this to a greenie and they go from passive aggressive to a claymore mine in a blink. More Hypocrisy huh. In Brisbane in the last 3 months they have been 27 house fires, all directly related to Li batteries with **** loads of toxic fumes going into the atmosphere and nothing much is being done about it. Electric car bursting into flames on motorways jamming traffic for hours, engines running to keep people cool and yet Electric vehicles are environmentally friendly. Even more bloody Hypocrisy huh And I haven't written anything about the products used to make this green lifestyle happen but one thing is for sure. There's heaps more Hypocrisy huh.
Just a quick comment about hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is based on lies hence my opinion about a con job.
I was planning on a future vacation visit to CA myself.... Now I'll take my money elsewhere.
Actually what is really needed is for any large outfit (govmnt included) that has any sort of mineral fuel burning engines, (notice I never use the ______ist, ____crat, catch word of "fossil fuel") to be forced now to get rid of them. This means all the diesel generating plants everywhere, and all airport machinery like in alaska etc. Just imagine all nuke plants with battery back up and no diesel gensets. This needs to be, and should be done as a grand experiment to prove to anyone that thinks having power sources that do not burn a fuel, will not work. And as far as living out too far for battery's to work, I think there are plans for that as well. Yeah I'm trying to figure out how they will charge the batterys for those radar outposts in Alaska, that I saw on a tv show the other night. Or the Alaska fishing boats, and factory's. How to charge all those heavy battery's? Too dark for solar, maybe a few wind storms would help them?
Before I retired I worked for a large electric utility. They had two diesel generating stations on an island off the B.C. coast. I can't imagine the cost of supplying fuel for these. This is on the north end of the island: The four trailers have 850 megawatt generators powered by Cat 3516s. Just past the trailers is an enclosure with an EMD 12-701 running another generator. The blue building to the right has three EMD 16-701 powered gen-sets. That is V16 with 701 cubic inches per cylinder. On the south end of the island there is another generating facility with three Cat 3516 powered generators inside and three more in trailers outside and an EMD 20-701 powering a 2.5 megawatt Generator. One of the operators told me in the winter when its cold and the days are short the generators on the island can consume 25,000 litres of fuel in twenty four hours.
I see there's some electric construction equipment being built now. I often wonder if there'll be a push for electric in the equipment market. I just can't fathom how long of an extension cord you'd need to charge up all the equipment on a logging show that's operating 50 kilometers off the nearest paved road.
Some may find this over the top. My theory-I was born in 1956, the U.S. population in 1956 was 164 million. 66 years of my life has gone by and now the U.S. population is 334 million. Life in the U.S. in 1963 was very simple, low stress. I went to grade school at a small 6 room building, there were about 13 kids in my class from 1st to 6th grade. As a kid we played with what ever there was to make a game. Most parents drove at least a five year old car and they only had one car. Families ate dinner at the table, only phone in the house was hanging on the wall. Moms used clothes lines to dry the wash. Neighbors would help neighbors especially when it came to farming. You went to school snow, ice, rain or shine-schools were not shut down because of bad roads. You ate before you went to school and you ate what was on your plate period. Just a few things I remember from that time. Problem----There's too many people, too much population. Causing some real bad thinking. JMO.
And somehow, hippies thought, " what about how the kids feel? " who cares. No one gave a rat's @ss hair if we didn't like liver, kidney or god awful brussel sprouts. I mean what kinda psycho feeds a pre-teen asparagus? The point is, we were raised better. Sometimes, a kid just needs its @ss whooped. Now, kids rule the families. Kinda like us and our government. We got the tail waggin' the dog.
I remember as a kid laying on my back in the pasture with a sprig of grass sticking out of my mouth looking up and hearing sonic booms {remember those}. I found out years later the flight path of the SR 71 went right over our area for testing out of Nevada. Just a buck wheat laying in the grass.
Yes there are way too many people on the planet if they all want to live the life of those in developed countries. There is not enough food, water, fossil fuels, land to maintain everyone in the lifestyle of the average US, European or Australian citizen. The cheapest and easiest fuels to extract have been extracted, the best land has been farmed or covered with roads or suburbia, in short the cheapest and easiest options have largely been used up which is partially why there’s a bit of inflation happening. Renewables don’t solve all these problems but the the sun and the wind are infinite sources of energy so one part of the equation is at least fixed. The way these sources are utilised is in its infancy and building scale and efficiency will come quickly as there is so much money to be made in developing better tech for energy production and storage. The hyperventilation over lithium rechargeables is over the top. If you have rechargeable torch, laptop, speakers, e-bike, power tool’s anything rechargeable, it’s got lithium batteries. They’re everywhere even in various health and medical aids. Just about all these devices are safe and people are happy to have them in their homes much more than storing petrol/diesel in their lounges. And the current lithium battery tech is just one of many competing battery technologies being improved year on year. Current tech is comparable to pre Second World War engines. There is a lot of room for improvement and a lot of demand. Hydrogen and other storage technology is also in its infancy with billions being invested into reducing cost and expanding availability and usability. I do have photovoltaic solar power which has saved me thousands $$ in electricity over the past decade as well as solar hot water. But I do have a fleet of earthmoving equipment and vehicles in which all the diesel machines are mechanical injection with minimal tech and relatively easy for myself or a diesel tech to maintain or work on. I’m not keen to upgrade to current diesel tech with its complexity and myriad points of failure which requires an expensive company tech to diagnose and work on. I’d much rather see development go in better electric and storage tech than making more complicated internal combustion engines. when you understand how simple an electric motor is compared to contemporary diesel engines it’s just a no brainer.
That 25k Liters of fuel is nothing. A jet plane will drink that in way less than half that time. And that is one plane out of what 16,000 flights a day? Not sure. Also there is no EMD 701 series engines. There is though 710, yeah I can be dyslexic as well. And wow thanks for the great pictures, thats on Vancouver Island? ""((I’d much rather see development go in better electric and storage tech than making more complicated internal combustion engines. when you understand how simple an electric motor is compared to contemporary diesel engines it’s just a no brainer.)))"" It seems they don't like the idea of super efficient motors. Also it seems they don't want efficient ICE engines either, they always find something they spew out that is blamed on moving the high and low pressure areas and jet stream all over the place. It would be interesting to know which of those units (engines) goes down the most. I think there is a reason Cat bought out EMD.
I keep in contact on the power gen side here, SMRs are becoming a positive light on that line of thought. Small Modular Reactor steam plants. Fuel assemblies 1/4 of size I dealt with, 1/4 the volume in the vessel, passive safety features and 120-250mw generator capacity for each plant to be set in small groupings of two to eight where never all off at same time on 24 month fuel cycles. Colorado is looking to this to close out their dirt burners as between elevation and terrain PV not a reasonable choice nor is Wind as the eastern plains in some months winds stay well out past 40mph where turbines cannot handle. Missouri may end up with a few of those but previous employer will not be owner. Cannot do away with Base Load power stations, they are what keeps the power on grid smoothed and stable, ofherwise voltage and available wattage swings insanely, appliances and service equipment do not handle that very well. Inverters and rectifiers will not remain functional to that either, load swings are their destruction.
I like my wife's analogy of power and what the average person knows about the power grid. {When there is a power outage it all boils down to a simple Pop Tart, if that toasters doesn't work and the coffee pots don't work life as we know it just came to full stop. Phones at the call center would go nuts, 90% of those came from the affluent part of town. Just whining when's the power going to be back on. It all cooks down to a Pop Tart and that toaster better work}.
My point is we are becoming undeveloped because too many are sucking the tit dry. Our electric generating power grid/infrastructure is ancient, We stopped building major dams in early 80's so most are 80 plus years old. We are popping people out like rabbits. Developed? One good hack could shut the system down in a heart beat, then where are we, {in the dark ages}.
Wind power is not cost effective and probably never will be unless the cost of power is artificially raised high
the problem isn’t too much population. Our resources can easily handle that when it’s done right. Our problem is that the majority of the population is now completely out of touch with what it takes to make a comfortable life and these people ignorantly but proudly stand in the way of everything that is needed. a good example is farming. Our farms are insanely efficient and produce massive yields. The problem that many poor people have in America is too much to eat. When else in history has that ever been a problem for the poor? But the ignorant view our large scale agriculture as the problem and want to knock it down. Do that and tons of people in the world will starve. We live in a golden age of plenty that has never been known. Most of the opulation, particularly the big city dwellers are so ignorant as to have no idea of what it takes to deliver a full selection of fresh produce, fresh meats, and a huge variety of convenience foods to every grocery store but they sure do know that “farming is bad” Boris Yelstin visited an average American grocery store in the end years of the Soviet Union and remarked that not even the most elite in Russia had access to anything like it. He was floored.
Was just a article on Veolia, they are pretty certain the oncoming "Tsunami" of turbines cannot be dealt with as a recycle plan. Current Subsidies are drying up for construct of these and the Tax Code relief for major utilities going to 'Renewables' also running out of steam. Previous employer has four PV centers, Two in Columbia MO(Co Owned with city one in New Florence MO and one in O'Fallon MO. None of which have generated enough revenue to show as a benefit. 1.3mw O'Fallon, 1.8mw New Florence, close to 3 mw of both CoMO stations where those are relative to sun and season of year of daylight. My ex co workers still see the grid power distribution maps at work, stated the four never reach Peak Power more than 40% of the month or greater than 60% of daytime hours NONE have ever met design output. O'Fallon is ten years old, New Florence two, CoMO is closer to twelve, where it is seeing Failed Cells and failing structures already. Odd issue with PV, once site is constructed the Cells become HAZMAT once placed in service as to replacements. Failed cells have Cadmium, Iridium, Lead, Zinc, Copper, among other materials upon a Silicon plate sealed under a silica glass lens. NOT recyclable currently according to the engineers.
I get such a Laugh when those morons at the store Describe Meat as NOT animal, they do not see the slaughter so believe is Man Made. Same with finished goods as down all the canned or boxed aisles, not farm but 'Factory' produced. Blind to reality.
The pics I posted of the generators are from the island of Haida Gwaii to the north of Vancouver Island.
Dams? They want to destroy more of them, that is the number 1 cleanest and best, conventional electric power source, that most people understand.
This I retrieved from the company trash some ten years ago and was dated then Shows the basis of grid and system zone Operators Is prior to TX connection to others and prior to so many facilities closing, being remediated and few of the renewable stations
Segments for reviews
I see a copyright year of 1996 on those maps. I would be curious about how much different the transmission lines are now. I can only remember one line going in on the west side of Washington in my lifetime here. The US population growth is shown on the the Census page as gaining one birth over one death every 22 seconds. https://www.census.gov/popclock/ In my mind I see the electric supply problem as using huge production sources and then sending the power vast distances. I know it was necessary because the generating source had to be close to the fuel source. At present, the only viable future will be small nuke plants that will provide power for limited amounts of area. Think PUD ownerships and coverage areas in the ranges of a few hundred square miles. Then you have redundancy in the supply side. That is also the only way I see the rapid advance of electric transportation. As far as people getting soft from the easy way of life in first world countries, that is just the nature of the human condition. If you aren't getting better, you are getting worse. Ever wonder why native American cultures are dying out. Kids that grew up on subsistence living are just not going to stay in that life style when they are fed, dry and warm for a change. Once fed, always hungry. Going to the issues of things going backwards and they controlling everyone else, tell me how well that worked when they tried to keep people alive with vaccinations. How about trying to stop the slaughter going on with gun violence. They haven't even made a decent proposal for that yet. In essence there are no government mandates that will work unless there is a majority of population willing to go along with it.
A LOT!! Was obsolete in 2000, just four years along. Many of the Nukes as Trojan, Com Ed plants around Chicago are gone and were shuttered by then. Been several Transmission lines set for the Renewable in MO and S IA, IIRC two of the DC Lines are now gone and replaced with 600kv AC
Scary is the Four major NE US States are so dependent of Hydro Quebec, almost could hand them over to Canuckistan. Of the 104 US Nukes when I started in Electrical Power, a mere 98 remain soon to be 96 and that includes the two Newest members at Southern's Plant Vogtle site with the last competed unit as Browns Ferry. Have lost Seven greater than 650mw nukes.
Same here in California, nothing of substance has been built since the 1990s really. And now we run into the occasional power pinch on hot summer days as cannot import/generate much. They were forced to leave Diablo Canyon online for a few more years after planned shutdown.
Meh. That's only 6000 gallons per day.
Not too many people huh.. Farming and growing vast amounts-------------take the subsidy out. That's a discussion for another day/time In 1966 there were 16.5 million trucks licensed for hauling freight. Our interstates were designed in 50's/60's. The 16.5 million was total including straight truck and farm. As of 2022. 38.9 million registered for business excluding {gov and farm}. Of those 38 plus million 4.6 million are class eight, that does not include all the semi trailers which is roughly two for every tractor. 44.8 billion gallons in diesel fuel. 9.0 billion gallons in gasoline. 3.5 million truck drivers. 7.8 million working in trucking related industry. All of this on plugged freeways designed 65 years ago, and getting worse each day. As far as food--The trucking company I work for hauls mainly chemically enhanced garbage food that really isn't fit for human consumption. We also haul the totes of crap that coats those wonderful taters so it causes people to hunger for more-Flavor enhancers--Yum. A mouthful of engineered garbage. A housing development causes the next development---Storage units. So people can have a place to store all the crap they bought on there weekend shopping sprees at Walmart. Because they saw a ad for a new ION battery power Which-is-skizit that they just have to have to go with the rest of the **** they will pile in there $300 dollar a month rented storage unit. But before they head to the storage unit to store some crap {Lets stop and eat}. Are willing to stand in line all to set at a table scarfing up the fine chemically flavor enhanced garbage displayed nicely on their plate, Oh my I have room for a small piece of blueberry flavored pie. Next to pay the bill walk out standing there holding the iced mocha they had to have and take a peek at their battery powered phone in case one of their 999 FB friends left a message. All while going forward checking their stock portfolio looking for the best price point that's trending at that perfect random moment. Yeah--------------Too many people.
Suspicion is will be feeding on each other as bottom falls out. Crutches supporting it all are as old and as weak.
That is an easy fix. But it involves the dreaded "profiling", and not figuring out how to take away something else from people that never do that sort of thing.
Until you take the word of "gun" out of "gun violence", there will be no way to stop it as the people trying to stop "gun violence" dont do anything to actually stop violent crime. It's as simple as just enforcing current laws and stop the revolving door criminal education system.
DC may not be postponed as Contracts already let, moneys spent and materials ordered for the Decommission. NRC has not approved extension as PG&E pulled their request back in 2021 per Newsum's directives. No extension license it still shuts down and on schedule as that is how it works Nuke, Coal burner different story. Dare say CA is in for a ride come 2024. Unit 2 comes off end of 23, Unit 1 comes off mid 24.
https://www.oregon.gov/deq/residential/pages/heatsmart.aspx
These new wood stoves kick the crap out of the ones built 30 years ago. They hardly even produce smoke and they'll easily burn all night.
But cost double to triple and have to have the catalyst bed changed periodically. Looked into one for here. All that and no recourse on Forest Fires. Enviro nuts state FF is nowhere near as bad as fireplace or stove, However, consume more wood and debris in hours than most home stoves over life of owners.
Still much cheaper than burning gas. That's if you don't factor in your time to cut, split and stack the firewood though.
This is interesting: Company debuts ‘World’s First’ ammonia-powered big rig https://cdllife.com/2023/company-debuts-worlds-first-ammonia-powered-big-rig/ This week, Amogy Inc . reportedly demonstrated use of “historic” zero-emission ammonia technology to power a Class 8 semi truck. On January 17, 2023, Amogy announced the successful testing of “the first-ever ammonia-powered, zero-emission semi truck.” In a demonstration video shared along with the announcement, Amogy showed off a retrofitted 2018 Freightliner Cascadia used during several hours worth of testing on the campus of Stony Brook University in New York following an eight minute long fueling process. The company says that they’ll pursue full-scale testing of the ammonia-powered truck on a test track later this month. “This latest successful presentation further proves ammonia to be a viable, sustainable solution for the otherwise hard to abate heavy-duty trucking industries, which account for 23% of the total greenhouse gas emissions from transportation. Decarbonizing heavy-duty trucking has been challenging, with alternatives like battery power lacking the energy density needed to replace diesel for larger vehicles and long-distance routes with minimal downtimes. Amogy’s ammonia-to-power system can enable the industry’s transition away from diesel-powered engines and to alternative fuel-to-power technologies. Unlocking ammonia’s potential, Amogy’s proprietary technology enables the on-board cracking of ammonia into hydrogen, which is then sent directly into a fuel cell to power the vehicle. Liquid ammonia has an energy density that is approximately three times greater than compressed hydrogen and it requires significantly less energy, making it cost-effective to store and transport,” Amogy said in a news release. Amogy says that they’ve also successfully demonstrated the ammonia-powered technology in a drone and a heavy-duty tractor. The company plans to pursue strategic partnerships across the global shipping and transportation industries with hopes of significantly reducing emissions. “Beyond its incredible energy-density and liquid phase at an ambient temperature, ammonia is an optimal fuel to achieve rapid decarbonization of heavy transportations because it is available globally with existing infrastructure already in place,” said Seonghoon Woo, Chief Executive Officer at Amogy. “This achievement not only showcases Amogy’s technology as an accessible and scalable solution for trucking, it also highlights the capabilities and dedication of our outstanding team. First it was an ammonia-powered drone, then a tractor and now a truck. In the near future, we look forward to further scaling and tackling other hard-to-abate sectors, such as global shipping.” Amogy is a sustainable energy startup that was founded in 2020. The company is based in Brooklyn, New York.
Wish they'd have kept the original sound in the video instead of the music. I'm curious what an amonia powered truck sounds like. Wonder if its a completely new engine under the hood or if they modified it? I'm genuinely intrigued by this.
Hey, you guys let me know when you have this solved. I just need the final results!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/13...-a-bridge-washes-out-during-cyclone-gabrielle Green policies at work. The timber you see is unwanted timber known there as slash used to be burnt after the timber was harvested but the greenies got it stopped a number of years ago. This isn't the first time this has happened but probably the worst. Some communities still don't have road access and probably won't for some time. There are other images and videos this timber has caused to houses which will have to be demolished were in the past would have been repaired.
Can you imagine what an ammonia leak will be like? All that is needed is stick to good ole mineral fuel, and stop sucking it dry with jet and turbine engines.
Hey Tones, are you thinking that the slash is what brought the bridges down? Ammonia is common place. It's used in most of the warehouse freezers and food production plant freezers. Might be an issue if a tank on a truck is damaged in a wreck. They don't say how much would be used up per mile of travel. Article does mention that the ammonia would be broken down into hydrogen and I expect run through a fuel cell. Odd that comes out just now as I read an article in one of the iron rags talking about Cummins settling on hydrogen as the fuel of the future. The basic premise is that the base engine could still be used and only the head and induction system needed to be replaced for a retrofit.
I thought I saw that a fuel cell would be way more efficient than burning it (hydrogen) to produce power?
I think you are correct about that but I don't know if it has the through put to generate enough power to run a highway truck.
I would think to be able to bring enough hydrogen along for a trip, to burn in an engine, the fuel tank would need to be a huge cyro container. Diesel is just the safe way to go, or the much cheaper Jet fuel like airlines get.
This link tells the chemistry of ammonia. https://www.britannica.com/science/ammonia There is an incredible amount of power built into the composition of ammonia. NH3 means three atoms of hydrogen and one of nitrogen. Petroleum distillate fuels will be around for a long time yet. They will end up with the reputation of coal unless a way can be found to cut all the byproduct chemicals out of the exhaust stream.
Yes John, it definitely has done just that. There have been problems with it in the past but not to this extent. 10 years ago locals warned this would happen but what the heck would they know. Similar levels of flooding occurred in 1938 and the bridges that survived it have gone this time. Something else that makes mockery of modern "climate Science" which ever way it's looked at.
Can see the enviro nuts going berserk of N2 in Ammonia as to becoming a Oxide compound in Combustion, only getting more stupid trying to remove it creating something equivocally nastier.
What I find rather conspicuous is the 'Estimated Lifetimes of Nitrogen Oxides in general. The next statement out of the same mouths is the deterioration of NO into Nitric Acid, or the eventual stripping of N2 as the large component by Rainfall. Cannot manage to keep a Intensifying level of NO, or NO2, or N2O or any other form if is being stripped or converted into a different Compound. Math does not work that way even as they play that kind of numbers games. Estimations have been NOx/N2O can last 150 years, totally ignoring the absorption rates of materials with an affinity to it. Similar to NO2, and then are compounds expansions of as N2SO4. Why do the sciences ignore natural degeneration or compounding?
Nothing to worry about. The weather is being engineered pretty much. Just listen to LBJ's speech. And see the post in the trivia thread.