As I go into work I keep seeing all the basic jobs are in need to be filled all with pretty good pay. I'm wondering is there just a lack of people who want to work factory and construction jobs. I thought most people would love to get paid to play in the dirt or help build a product:beatsme
People just don't want to work with their hands any more.IMO. Ambition levels are pretty low these days. Desk jobs are what it's all about for most people. Plus getting dirty in a job is definitely not in most young people minds. Jobs these days are all about recognition not about self satisfaction for completing a tough and dirty job. I'm a mechanic, and satisfied with that because I'm too old and it's too late to change. Truck Shop
Why would you work for $10 an hour when you can lay on your ass and get everything handed to you by the taxpayers (that are left) If you don't need to live fancy you can live work free pretty easy, all it takes is a total lack of morals, ethics, and conscience these days. Oh and around here there are as you say signs everywhere they're hiring, but nobody can pass the drug tests so we got record homeless and crime, and entry level and semi skilled or unskilled jobs going wanting.
Free market says that jobs go begging if there are other jobs available more desirable to the applicant. Why take a job laying in the mud under a Cat with a torch and hot metal and grease dripping on you when you can work inside an air conditioned office and get off by 5:00 for the same pay? These types of jobs also do not seem competitive, at least in this market, in the benefits and advancement areas. I will also submit that one big competitor for jobs in the labor market is the welfare state. Why work when you can lay around instead? Pay is lower but expenses are lower when you don't have to drive to work or buy new clothes so often. Men hustled harder when starvation was an option for them.
Nobody wants to do this crap, I have a couple friends with real jobs the rest think they can play in bands and trim weed for the rest of their lives and not develop any REAL skills. Good luck!
Read a little while ago in the US 50% leave job interviews when they are told they will be drug tested. Pretty sad hey
Think of it as a bird feeder. If there is magically always food in it would you leave? This up and coming generation will put this country under. If you find young help you cant tell them the easy way to to the job, they know everything and your the a hole. I already know i'm a a hole. They want to sit in the seat like the big cheese and make the "easy bucks" third day on the job. How can you run the big shovel if you cant run the little one efficiently? Do not trust the grease job, once the gun is empty the machine is good to go. Machine manufactures are making the tools more and more comfortable and simpler to operate. To the point where they run their own grade... The day is coming where we wont need them. Replaced with a machine? Someday. Our own infatuation with technology and easy everyday life will be the downfall of us. :usa
Four years ago when I had to run through a chain of doctors before I could get surgery on my lower back. While discussing my work and back issues with one doctor his reply to me was [That's what immigrants are for] I felt like rearranging his jaw. Truck Shop
Or it shows that the economy is doing well and there is an actual shortage of qualified workers for the job. If the wages for that type of work was increased, I suspect we would see folks quitting their retail and fast food jobs for it. Why pay an American worker if Congress keeps granting visa for foreign workers? In my opinion, it is the companies trying to get the maximum work for minimum pay. Howard
Define worker for me. Lol. We have a bunch of people that show up and collected a check. I think a couple people hint on the head with why work hard when you can get it for free from the government. Or the fact that it's a job for the other people
Right now I think my company has about 15 openings all form watching the machines and making sure nothing breaks to being a electrical engineer the lowest paying job is 13 dollars an hour for someone with no skill or experience.
I hate to ruin your fun of bashing the unskilled, the unmotivated, the young and inexperienced, but I think we are seeing something not seen since Bill Clinton was president...a good economy with real "wage inflation". Yes, we are entering an era where the DEMAND for qualified workers (folks who show up in the proper clothing, right frame of mind, skilled for the job at hand and ready to produce) exceeds the SUPPLY. So either wages go UP to get people to shift jobs to where they are needed or we keep wages low by bringing in folks outside the normal labor pool, like people from other countries who will work for the existing wage. This is not a political post, but an economic analysis. Some of us get confused at time between economic theory and political theory. Howard
I would beg to differ. We're in no way fully recovered from the debacle of 2008, yes there are some jobs going wanting, but the upturn is still part of that recovery and only reflects the fact that over 90 million potential workers have effectively left the work force, either voluntarily, or not. A large number of highly skilled workers exited into early retirement if they could, or a lower paying job. Now that things are possibly off life support those skilled jobs are either crying for lack of qualified workers or being filled by qualified folk moving back in from whatever lower wage schtick they could get, creating the vacuum at the lower end of the wage scale. Wages do need to go up, but corporations will move heaven, earth, and congress (hell) to prevent that from happening.
I think you might have things a tad out of order...I think CONGRESS is why wages haven't gone up! And where do you get the 90 million? that would be over one person out of four in our population. Here is the BLS data, http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm , and at 4.9% we are approaching the structural unemployment level. Howard Howard
38 out of 100 able to work Americans don't have a job, there is plenty of work around, most are used to being spoon fed from the tax payers pocket so why work? Why would a kid want to work out in the heat and dirt for $10 a hour when they can work at the restaurant on the corner for $10 a hour and be in the A/C doing a much easier job? Raising minimum wage isn't going to help anything either, $15 a hour just means we will all be paying $6 for a gallon of milk and paying more taxes. Everyone wants the $130k a year engineer or doctor job but nobody wants to move the dirt or lay the block or frame the building they work in! I know a guy who runs a factory, he said they usually go through 20 applicants just to find a guy who will last a couple months and pass a drug test. Make it so these people need to pass a daily drug test for a month before they can get on welfare, I don't need to bust my butt just to feed your drug addiction!
Not sure where you see all this great economy because it is not around many parts of the country especially with the number of people holding jobs at a all time low close to only 50%.
Yes, congress, at the bidding of their moneyed masters, are indeed why the good citizens are constantly shorn like sheep. 4.9% is the number of people currently enrolled in unemployment benefits, and in some states those signed up with the employment service as "Actively seeking" the true unemployment rate can only be estimated as of course there's no way to count people not in the system. Some estimates are over 12% actual. 90 million is the number of people that can work, but are not for one reason or another. The labor participation rate is at something like a 40 year low: http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/06/news/economy/obama-us-jobs/
ok.. just for kicks.. I would like everyone who responded to this thread to go to your local craigs list site.. Now, I KNOW that's just a small portion of job postings and more over, a lot of reputable employers don't use such a site.. BUT.. Type in> diesel< in the master search box on the left.. Click JOBS.. and check out the wages, if listed at all.. ALOT are 15.00 listings with 5+ years of experience, own tools, computer skills and a list of requirements that would make an experienced tech cringe.. Certs in trailer rebuilding, hydo rebuilding, complete engine o/h experience, electrical diagnosis, brake o/h, experience in Cat, JD, New Holland, **, Ford required.!! Throw in 200K worth of tools and you too can have a J O B for 15.00 hr in the mud, snow and heat.. and lets not forget about, MANDATORY weekend shifts and road work on the weekends.. Sorry.. got alittle off track from the original posters subject.. But seriously.. check it out..
You are correct. Top dollar for a damn good experienced tech with a handful of certs and 10 years or more experience around here is about $25 an hour, maybe a bit more if you stay a few years after hiring. This is just about EXACTLY what it was in 1980 when I started out! Off road diesel was $0.55 a gallon and a new TLB was around $40K. One ton dually was around $10K as I recall.
Yes, price inflation, but no wage inflation. This means that there are too many workers with the right skills so the positions don't have to pay much. And why does clean, easy fast food work pay the same as a mechanic? That should be the first thing we should look at. And where is Congress in all of this? Oh yea, on vacation for the last seven weeks. Howard
don't forget about the need to speak Spanish and be able to be on call 24/7 and be able to fix 20 things at once because your area is under staffed because the company's no one had the right qualifications to fill in the open spots
Oh yea, we are short staffed and underpaying due to putting all the money into executive compensation. If we are lucky, we can go to the airport or the marina on our own time and look at the jet and boat our stolen wages have bought the big bosses...All the money for training, retention and apprenticeships are now stashed overseas in a Panama based bank. Howard
Yes that raise you where promised when the project was completed well it seems you did not show up for work one day and that makes you unqualified for that raise you been waiting a year for but don't worry it went to well use got my kid a brand new truck with the money we saved who will be your future boss
after reading this I was curious and went on the company site to see how many positions were open at this time , I was surprised it seems to be a record number. 409 positions open with alot of sign on bonuses for alot of different positions all across the nation for the most part and I do believe that excludes any positions in canada as I didnt see any but I'm sure they exist also
In Savannah, Georgia, the mechanic for my personal vehicles, who has a largish, modern shop with space to work on about 30 vehicles at the time, offers his employees the potential to make over $70,000 a year without much overtime, but has a hard time keeping workers. I have known him a long time, and think that he would be a good guy to work for. Sometimes workers just think that the grass Is always greener across the street, so go from job to job chasing a will-o'-the-wisp.
Back in the early 1970's when I got started half the workers in the shop would attend at least one full weeks training class at one of the major manufactures and the company would also bring in people once or twice a year for one or two days training classes. That was back when the complete wiring diagram for a 988 Cat loader would fit easy on a half size page in the back of a parts book and be easy to read! In the last 20 years I went to one 3 day class on tires and a few half day classes that were more of a sales pitch for Cat ET or some such thing than a real class with any real hands on work. And we all know how simple the latest versions of Cat loaders and haul truck are to trouble shoot. Management thinks they are spending all kinds of money on training these days when in reality the only "training" done is the Federally mandated annual 8 hour MSHA refresher course and even that can be somewhat of a joke! And as for apprenticeships, they knew the day I was going to retire a full year in advance but the guy that was hoping to replace me doing the maintenance and repairs for a 1 million ton a year quarry was put in the shop to work with me only a couple weeks be for I left. And at that with less than a week to go I mentioned that they should get him set up with an email account and internet access, the replay was well we are not sure he is going to get the job! ***!! Now they decide they need to post the job and advertise it??? As it turned out a few months later they did let him take the job but instead of doing the job full time he only spends maybe 1/2 his time in the shop. When anything big comes up they hire in sub-contractors to do the main work with him amounting to not much more than a gopher for them. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against sub-contractors being hired when they are needed but for an operation the size of this I really think they should have at the minimum one full time mechanic to do at least the basic repairs and service work.
You sound a lot like the administration talking. We are also having trouble hiring good people and the company I work for pays very well not top of the heap but there are no lay offs and the benefits are good. Now on that note why should the owners not be well paid they are the ones who have risked everything? I will ask the same thing I have several people who have the same attitude just how much of YOUR money, time and health have you put into starting a business? Now are there some bad ones yes but not all like some try and say. Next thing the 4.9% unemployment is a joke and only a attempt to TRY and make things look better than they are. The real rate would be 4-5 times higher if they took into account the massive number of people who have just gave up looking.
You got most of it right but congress can jolly well stay on vacation for all I care. Whenever they are in session they are making more and more laws all of which have fines and punishments and restrictions attached. We need about a 50 year moratorium on new regulations of any kind. We have plenty right now, thank you very much. The only thing they need to do is repeal stuff and they need to do it broad and fast. Of course there might be temporary wage depression in diesel mechanics because about a million bureaucrats would be looking for work but we can always dream, can't we?
Where do I sign up to be a Mechanic's helper? ( Yes for $15 McWages)
Today the place i work highered another driver i am a mechanic. They had to pay him almost 2 times what i am geting because they cant find drivers. I dont know what to think about this but i do know one thing if i owned the company i work for i would sell it as fast as i could because in 3 years or less 75% of thier drivers can retire.
70,000 dollars with not much over time good lord I might not be a mechanic but I'm willing to learn a new trade
What a great position to be in...replace the expensive old guys with cheap young ones?
The current shortage of skilled labor is temporary at best. The economy from where I sit is only really hot on the coasts in sea port cities. Cross the Cascade mountains into eastern Washington state and unemployment is still 7% plus. I agree that there are plenty of people willing to go to work for decent money but there is no avenue for them to obtain the needed skills to perform at those levels. The ads on the radio are for concrete laborers, welders, hod carriers, carpenters, pipe layers roofers and so on but if you don't have any of those skills out of high school you don't get a job. Employers around here are not interested in training any one. The school systems are also to blame as college educated teachers here believe the only path to success is with a college education. If you are not on that path then they don't care where you go or what you do. I have met multiple ex armed forces service personnel that have their pick of what they want to do. The part of that issue that burns me is that we turned many of our best and brightest into hamburger through foreign wars and are now obligated to take care of them in some form for the rest of their lives. They are still smart, motivated and willing but have been robbed of their physical abilities to handle the fulfilled the needed types of work. At this moment I see an economy bought and paid for by the super rich who have set up barriers to prevent any of lesser mean from achieving entrance into the old boys clubs. You have multi national corporations shifting to other countries to avoid taxes. Look up Apple and the Irish tax scam in your news feeds. You have lots of political leaders with phony companies set up through Panama to hide wealth likely obtained through bribes, kick backs or just plain theft of tax payer money. Many of you own your own companies and pay what you can and likely pay yourselves little more than you pay your best employees. I know of people that are basically paying to be in business for themselves. Think about that when a job comes up that your company is perfectly suited to accomplish but you can't meet the minimum bonding, establish minimum liability insurance, are socked will crazy industrial insurance or are stymied by ecological regulation that only the huge company can afford. Maybe then you can wonder what Apple Corporation is going to do with that ten billion dollars in taxes they didn't pay to any government.
Not to upset anyone but really what this thread boils down to is [people this day and age can't take a breath without thinking about a dollar bill]. My dad summed it up real well years ago. [A man's success should not be judged by the amount of presidents in his wallet. If he raised a family and the children all turned out to be honest and hard workers that is true success because that's the toughest job there is and the most rewarding. Truck Shop
Don't give up yet Truck Shop . Next generation in training . The Boy's seems to be full of **** & vinegar and eager to be a part of the operation . He get's mad when I offer help taking apart the rigging , LOL ! http://www.heavytruckforums.com/showthread.php?263-Some-Holmes-750-action&p=2549&viewfull=1#post2549 Then Spiderman gets tired & sleepy in the cab after a day's work . It never ends !
Those numbers are discussed regularly on investors forums and most of the wise seem to agree that all the "official" numbers are cooked. We just can't rely on them and they are likely much worse than disclosed. The bankers want to keep their game going just a little longer before total collapse and they use every resource they have to sugar coat the picture.
You are right about most of the above. But don't wish that Apple or some other successful company paid more money to the government. Let them keep their money and let us keep ours and let the little old lady keep hers. The gov't does not need that money no matter who it comes from. Instead, undo the last 100 years of everybody shouting "there ought to be a law" about some thing or other and everyone's life will be happier. Everyone that wants to work and live in community with other people that is. Those that want to mooch or fight with their neighbors will have a tougher time.
Truck Shop, To a point you're right, but I think mass media and the super rich have let the long suffering working class and small business owners in on the dirty little secret: The wealthy are screwing us because as always they own the government. All most of us want is an even shake, a chance to raise a happy family without working ourselves to death.
My previous employer gave a 20 cent an hr raise every yr. the last yr I was there I spent $6k on tools to do my job. The truck drivers spent what ever it cost to renew their CDL. But yet we made the same per hr.
I know what ya mean Moonlite.. Lets say, after weeks of getting your courage up to ask for a raise and months of feeling neglected at work, to the point of almost quiting, you go in and ask for the BIG RAISE.. AFTER an hr or so of stating your case and getting things off your chest, you get a 1.00hr bump in pay.. That's 40.00 for the week.. after taxes thats 20.00 for the ENTIRE WEEK.. that doesn't cover a tank of fuel and a 6 pack.. Hardley seems worth the effort.. for all the anxiety that went into it.. I can remember 25 yrs ago when I got a raise that put me in a different tax bracket and I LOST MONEY.. My paycheck was less and I ended up oweing the tax man that year.. Now THATS something I'll NEVER forget..
Construction is no longer my primary job, I'm now in charge of building and grounds maintenance for a small school district. Custodians here are making $65k base salary + overtime and the benefits are unreal 3 weeks vacation and 15 sick days a year. The only skill they need is to show up. Most of them feel entitled and getting any work out of them is near impossible. New employees are great for the first year (probation period) then are burnt out from picking up everyone's slack and realize there's no reward. When there's no punishment and no reward it's very hard to motivate someone. Silly me thinks my salary is my reward. I don't know where I'm going with this but I just find it unreal and appalling.
If you lost money because of a wage raise your accountant made a big mistake. The Federal tax system was, and is still tiered now, the higher tax rate applies only to the funds earned above that higher tax percentage point. The net is normally less than expected by folks but properly accounted for it should never go backwards.
Wow, you must be doing REALLY well to be in the 50% marginal tax bracket...except the highest bracket for those earning over $300k is only 38% and social security stops collection at $118k annual income. I think you need to go relook at your 1040 form... Howard
Connecticut is a very high cost of living state due to housing and of course taxes...and the local taxes are high since they pay their municipal workers, like fire, police, and schools a living wage. Plus, many of the pensions of the workers is NOT funded by current wages, but by future taxes. Did you have a family member help get you this fluff job? Howard
The way I read the post, The Peej is as upset as everyone else in this thread about people who don't expect to have to earn what they're being paid. Either way, coming at it from the Forum Moderator's point of view, I think the quote above comes needlessly close to crossing the line of a personal attack. Let's try to avoid that...
Thanks for the support but it is true many of the employees here are a result of nepotism. Slowly we are trying to change that. After working for myself and owning my own company I do consider this a "fluff" job and am grateful that this opportunity came up.
My apologies...I grew up in Connecticut and still have many friends who live there. MY EXPERIENCE is that many of the municipal jobs are 'family' controlled...as in extended, unrelated 'Italian Families'. I was trying to ask if these jobs were "connected" but in code. Years ago, I worked at a mechanic, at a bus garage, by the waterfront, run by a 'connected' family, and you quickly found out that many of the underperformers could NOT be fired. Howard
I agree. I see it every day in my little town. There are over 120 winery's here paying minimum wage selling average priced at $50 dollar a bottle [who hit john wine]. Some weekends the privet jets number as many as twelve set setting on the tarmac at the local airport. At my shop I can see them coming and going. Average price of the cars driving around the winery's on tasting tours $80.000. And most are driving intoxicated by the end of the day, but those laws are for other people not them. A neighbor lady took a part time weekend job driving a limo around the winery's for the consummate wine-o. She quit after three months, she couldn't take the way they looked down their nose at other people. Truck Shop
Wow.... they almost closed the airport here due to lack of use and traffic, couldn't keep a carrier flying in here.. until somebody built a high class golf course on the sand.... they built a new tower and terminal at the airport to handle the private and business jets dropping in here with the "club and snub" set, lol. I feel your pain.
Like I said before I was suppose to get a raise of about 55 cents at the end of a project but because my ability to be human and get sick and miss a day after two years that I should not get that raise because all the extra work I've done all the staying late and doing that extra mile that one day takes all that time and effort away and I get no raise no nothing bright side is they got a two week notice and went under 6 months later
For the first half of my working life the company I worked for I feel treated workers like they were an asset and I would have been more than happy to suggest one get a job there. Sure it was dirty and at time a little dangerous if you did not use your head. But all levels of management would be likely to stop and say hello if they walked by where you were working. While you would not get rich working there I feel it was a living wage and considering most of the jobs did not even require a high school education that was a good thing. The last several years my dad worked at the local quarry for this company he was the working group leader, number two man in the plant! And that was with only a 8th grade education. Yes a little nepotism, help get me in the door! Then some changes came along in upper management, most due to mergers and acquisitions. Management opinions of workers change to see them as a cost and liability both to be reduced as much as possible! And overtime, that helped the workers who were in the more seasonal areas of production make up for the winter lay-off periods, it was reduced to the point of being almost non-existent. Now many of the workers who used to make a good income over the year they can qualify for food stamps or other forms of government assistance! So in effect tax payers are giving kick back to this major company that probably hides their profits over seas. So who is the real welfare queen in this country? The guys working 40 hours a week when the company sees fit or the upper management in their limos and big houses complaining about how abused they are by all these safety rules? I've got nothing against the guy who started from nothing to build a company on his own like many I see here have done or are doing right today. But when some rich kid gets a fancy degree from some college and the closest he came to moving dirt was when he put a divot in the country club golf course when teeing up on Wednesday morning decides the guy standing in a ditch with mud or worse up to his knees is making too much money and needs to be let go so he can be replaced with someone willing to work for a couple dollars less an hour that pi$$e$ me off!
Lawsuits have made employees into liabilities and for that I blame lawyers rather than managers.
To some extent I could agree with that but the other things area manager has said are much worse than that. Like the time he told people at one of the very few meetings he had with workers. That if you don't like working here there are ten guys standing outside the gate just waiting for a chance to take your job! Or, "I could train a monkey to do just about everyone of your jobs! Strange thing is when ever they were trying to hire new people the plant manager had trouble finding anyone to apply and then some would say no thanks after being taken on a tour of the quarry, Job is not of me!
Here's an eye opener: http://www.learnliberty.org/blog/th...w-income-workers-will-never-overcome-poverty/
I knew that was the case but didn't know it was that bad. The people who are earning this way know it very well, though, and rarely go over that cliff unless they are not paying attention. I know of a guy who lives humbly and won't work any overtime, if he has to work late one day he goes home early the next or takes the day off, because if he earns too much he loses welfare and he knows it.
What I try to instill to friends & family is " no one is blocking or holding anyone back " . Plenty of shovel ready dirt jobs out there , just show up & take care of the customer and move on to the next task . Takes a little while to build it up but after 25 years or so you can do a few things and take care of the people . That's who I work for .... The People The biggest " pitfall " I see lately is people who are afraid of there jobs . Can't make a simple quick decision without asking permission from someone else . Good Lord ! Act like a man & make the call good or bad . No one will respect you if you hesitate with fear . Go after it with confidence & getter done !:thumbsup
One huge problem with getting mechanics or techs if you prefer, is the complexity of evetything today. I know guys that can fix/rebuild darn near anything if they can see the problem. Throw in a computer, game over. Just because someone can use a smartphone doesn't make them smart enough to understand todays diagnostic software and use it to troubleshoot a problem that involves switches, relays, solenoids or an ecm. Might sound mean, but technology has really screwed people that aren't very smart. Face it, plenty of people out there with good work ethic that just give up, the only jobs they are smart enough to do don't pay enough to fill the car to get there. Ed
Another thing that comes to mind is how awful the computers are and always have been on this stuff. If they would program the things carefully and robustly and document things well we might have a chance. But computers are glitchy and appear to be thrown together and need constant updates especially if you buy a new model. Trouble codes are never thrown in the event of a real problem and when they do throw codes it is usually a red herring. There is no documentation of the way it is supposed to work, case in point, DPF regeneration and the like. They should be telling us what conditions allow a passive regen, when an active regen will be called for, parameters we can read in the computer, etc. Instead we get vague statements like a long high speed drive will do it or active regen MAY occur when driven slowly. How does anybody expect a mechanic who works with his hands to differentiate between a real mechanical problem leading to computer errors or the computer just acting up from bad programming? Or just plain breaking physically? These things could accomplish the same emissions and features with 1/10 the complexity and wasted CPU cycles but we've gotten resigned to the mediocrity.
Mo money.... A big amen on that brother...
I agree, and will add this: CAT and to a lesser extent other manufacturers used to do a pretty good job of completely explaining the theory of how things were supposed to work. I used to love to read transmission power flows in CAT service manuals because I learned a tremendous amount of how they worked, when working properly. There has been so much change, so quickly, and so much of it undocumented, or poorly so, that even the factory trained techs may not clearly understand how all those gizmos interact, along with the endlessly updated ECU or ECM software. If you don't know how it works, how can you diagnose it, really? The computers will only tell you what they're programmed to tell you for a given input per parameter. Lose a connection at a pin or short two unrelated wires together and it all goes out the window with no clue where to start, so they throw sensors and harnesses and computer boxes at it and then throw up their hands. Really sucks!
I apologize for contributing to the thread drift, but the main purpose of electronics on heavy equipment is planned in obsolescence. Much of the complexity is not needed for safe and environmentally clean operation. Complexity often has a motive and in this case the primary motive is to give the banker/manufacturer/dealer more control over their customers, not to give customers more control over their purchases. They seem to want to have every customer financing every piece of equipment for X number of years after which it becomes no longer feasible to keep it in operation (as soon as it's paid off). It isn't analytical genius that enables mechanics to solve electronic problems on machinery, it is memorized knowledge, memorized information, memorized procedures which in many cases are not accessible to mechanics outside of dealerships. Analytical process and logic stops at sealed modules, unless you are one of the very small percentage of techs who grinds the epoxy off the module and tests the diodes and capacitors etc to trace down the mysterious circuitry.
I guess one thing about this relating to workers tends to be the frustration factor. It is really satisfying to take a broken down machine and figure out the problem and send it on its way with confidence. Replacing thousand dollar modules and having the problem recur intermittently is a recipe for ulcers.
Birken, you nailed it. One see's a broken or worn part, it gets replaced. The cylinder doesn't leak, the sprocket doesn't slip. Replace an electronic part, one just doesn't know how long it'll be before it comes back to haunt you. Ed
Maybe a bit off topic( or not) but how is the market for self employed heavyequipment mechanics in the states, here in the Netherlands most bigger clients go to a dealership, and the smaller ones, with one or two machines are more of the diy types, with not Much in between for self employed mechanics Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
In my view a good mechanic with a service truck can easily work himself to death here with the exception of the economic slumps we see like the one that started in 2008. If it doesn't get too far down the lone wolf gets more business because owners can't afford dealer charges. The only problem with being a lone road warrior is you can only earn as much as the hours you can work, it rarely if ever turns into a larger operation.
I have a friend who is a plumber who is the same way, he can work out of a cargo van and work as many hours as he can, he is almost always 2 or 3 weeks out on work, but the problem is that to grow he then has the expense in another vehicle, tools, not to mention a good worker. I knew a guy that just got out of the rooter business that I wanted to buy from him, its not great work :shf but when someone's crap isn't flowing they aren't worried about spending money to fix it, no matter if the economy is good or bad people still need to use the bathroom
And how are foreigners looked upon by other self employers, not the Guys from south America but from across the pond Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
I would venture to say Brits and Scandinavians including Danish and Dutch more than welcome, French and German not so much maybe and Slavs and Russians have not given good impressions here. It will vary by region I think though. Just my impression of things.
I think it is the same the other way around, somehow these counteries Dont see eachother as a threat. Here in the Netherlands most of the workingclass cant stand the eastern Europe laborers, they work for lower wages, mostly produce less quality and live by lower life standards usually cannot even propper communicate with us. But for Some employers only the money counts especially their profit Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
There have always been some lazy people, but I think it's more that schools forcefully discourage young people from working in the trades. That was certainly true when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and it's true now. I was made to feel like some kind of freak for saying I wanted to be an operator when I grew up. The disapproval of teachers and other authority figures was pretty destructive to my self confidence. I am glad I didn't listen to them and followed my dreams, I am doing alright.
I will go one further. A family friend got a teaching job in the early 90's on Bainbridge Island {rich snobs** teaching what was then called power shop. There were no tools of any kind or books/manuals in the shop area just seven desks in a class room. He had two students. When he took lunch in the teacher break room he asked What's up with the wood and power shop classes. He told me one of the teachers turned and looked his way with a frown and told him under their breath. You don't realize where you are this is island of the rich, these moms and dads don't want their child's hands getting dirty so the school puts no money in that program. Truck Shop
How ridiculous? And sad! It's good for kids to learn a lot of different things to be a well rounded person. Taking shop class doesn't mean you will work as a carpenter or welder, it's just another thing to learn about. Who knows, some of them may discover a talent they didn't know they had.
That brings back some memories Buckethead . My high school teachers looked down on the trades & farming . In there high education they thought food came from the grocery store , wood products came from the lumber yard , and dirt got moved by people that didn't get the teaching job . LOL ! I was fortunate getting a part time job at 16 working for a farmer / dirt contractor . Really loved it ! Leaned a lot from him past it on to my boy . Even the foot ball coach tried to derail me ...... Gave me the lame ass speech " you should be playing on the team instead of working " . Why would I want to get ordered around to chase a ball up & down a field when I could get paid some cash after school to run farm equipment & yellow iron ? It was an easy decision . No regrets Man !
I've never been up north but where I'm at you have more getting dirty jobs then clean jobs and I'm happy about that because I had a choice of how I wanted to get dirty instead of there only being a few number of places
I grew up working a dirty job, folks had a dairy. We milked 110 of Jersey's in a nine stall barn with vacuum buckets. Two times a day seven days a week all year long. I was shoveling sh!$ at five years old. I'm 61 now and still shoveling sh!$ from the boss working as a mechanic for the last 44 years. Truck Shop
Well............not so sure electronics are all that difficult. We have to keep a lot of very new equipment up and running. Now keep in mind we are not dealers for heavy iron, we just rent it out so the manufacturers don't give us access to stuff the same as dealers. We hardly ever take any machine to a dealer and the key to that is we are trained to understand electronics. Not even by the mfr. or dealer but by a real dedicated guy who knows the stuff inside and out. A diode is a diode, a step motor is a step motor, a schematic is always a schematic you just have to know how to read it.............and make sure you check the basics. Many a tech guy lost a day because he did not bother or did not know how to check ground in the troubleshooting process. How many guys out there know how to find a weak wire in a bundle? Hey, if I can do it anybody can. Had 8 grades and HS by mail but never stopped learning this fun stuff and the guys I work with, all under 30 are incredible because they majored in learning this electronic stuff. Even at 22 years old they have no problem with big guys breathing down their necks while they patiently troubleshoot an electrical problem out on a job-site. The temptation, and the expectation is that he will start swapping out electronic parts......no-no-no that is so old school so Bubba you chill while I figure this out. Yeah you can get some knowledge by learning this stuff the hard way if you are OK w/ 40K a year. If you want 1.5 -2x that get the training. Many sources out there, we use this guy and have for a decade or so.........do a YOU TUBE search for this Dan Sullivan, Fundamental Electrical Troubleshooting
Diagnosing electrical and electronic problems are two entirely different games. A logical mind with minimal background in electricity can solve electrical problems all day long. Not so with electronics.
Just like you need the correct wrenches for nuts and bolts, you also need the correct tools to troubleshoot electrical parts and electronics, like proper test points so you don't tear up a good harness, and technical data that gives good input and output parameters for actuators, motors, and sensors. I will always visit the harness room of every plant I go to, it will give you a wonderful idea of just how they are made, the quality that goes into them and the probably failure points, with the biggest one being flex and fatigue. Howard
Providing customers with good technical data and specialized electronic test instruments to unveil the secrets contained in sealed modules is something that the manufacturer/dealer does at their own option. IOW, they can either selectively provide it only to deep-pocketed customers, charge exorbitant rates for it, provide very poor technical data, or simply not provide it. All of these amount to the same thing;planned in obsolescence and the dealer/manufacturer having more control over their customers. In my experience working on aged equipment and not spending the money to have any clout with dealers, the independent mechanic's inability to solve these electronic malfunctions often stems from the fact that the dealer/manufacturer does not want him to.
Then sometimes even the dealers for a major manufacture do not have the full story on how or why things happen. Like the problem I dealt with trying to diagnose a trouble warning that a trans. filter was plugged on a front end loader. After literally working on it for months, not full time but when ever the machine was acting up or in shop for other work. Eliminated everything right up to the module that had the warning light in it. Dealer's main tech felt that the module was the only likely thing that could be causing this problem. He suggested I try to either find a "good" used one to stick in or just replace it with new. Due to cost I could not bring myself to talk the boss in to replacing it. That ended up being the right choice as more or less by accident I stumbled on the real problem. Never could get anyone to explain how come a trans. temp. sender would cause a module to light up a "plugged filter" warning light. Maybe it was some "error" in the program of this module, but how can someone be expected to see things that deep in a system? It also did not help that this was an intermittent problem, might goes days without a warning light coming on.
We are straying way off topic, but I think it is less planned obsolescence that short sighted system optimization. We expect sensors to be cheap and easily replaced. We expect wiring harnesses to last the life of a vehicle and we expect black boxes to behavior as intended or fail in obvious ways. The black boxes are usually NOT made by the OEM, but the OEM requires performance criteria, for this input, we expect THAT output. Which means each black box needs a either a dedicated test set OR instructions on how to use a common test set. That is not available in the field, so we have to replace artificially priced modules. And if you think heavy equipment is getting complex, time to look at a modern aircraft. Howard
That sounds pretty typical. The ability to try another module off the shelf without any financial commitment is a resource that dealers have that is not available to customers. It makes the dealer mechanic look competent and the independent mechanic incompetent. The Latin words "Cui bono?" or "Who benefits?" apply to many of these scenarios. Since the dealer/manufacturer is the beneficiary of overdone complexity, I think it stands to reason that some of it likely is deliberate. If you look at the automotive industry, it's pretty obvious that planned in obsolescence is their modus operandi. The end result often reveals the original intention. We're frustrated with all the codes and electronic problems unresolved, so while we're at the dealer trying to get it fixed, we look at the new machines and drool, all the time being "helped" by the salesman. Complexity has a motive.
I love going to the dealership and drool about the new machines but then I realize I cant afford any thing new and shiny maybe used and shiny but no where near new
I just read this whole thread. I'll post on topic since I am new here and sort of outside the industry. I have two years left in the military as a airframe/ hydraulic mechanic so I have been watching the job market pretty closely in fields where my skills are transferable. There are always listings for welders, heavy equipment/ diesel mechs, hydraulic mechs, and operaters. Texas, North Dakota, the PNW, and the north east seem to have allot of jobs. I think there is a shortage in any true skilled labor field because most kids have been force fed college and student loans and a new unskilled immigrants cant just jump in and do it for half of the skilled guys. I personally see that as an advantage for someone as myself that is still young enough to retrain into similar fields.
I agree that you should do well in the private sector. When my wife retired after 21 years in the Navy we were at Omaha for a week for her mandatory "TAP" classes so they could in their words (LOL) "teach her how to live as a civilian." The instructors had no clue as to what was going on in the real world. One fellow headed up all the HVAC controls and heating systems at a large nuclear bomber base. They told him he would have to consider further schooling for a couple years to work in that field in the private sector. After my wife and I shared dinner with him and his wife he mentioned they wanted to live in Wisconsin where they both had grown up. I gave a copy of his resume to a larger Wisconsin mechanical contractor associate that I had used on a number of hospital projects, and he agreed to hire him to try him out. Within a year and a half the retired Navy fellow was running their 25 person maintainance division.
I was told my community college was just as good as a 4 year college and that I should work full time and go to school part time went in a program in my high school that got me my welding certificate plus some experience in welding and manufacturing in a job so when I did graduate I was a little ahead in work experience
Lot of outfits seems to claim to be hiring yet aren't. I applied to easily 150 positions over 4 months, of that, had 5 or 6 interviews. One saying thanks but they went with another guy with slightly more experience, one called 6+ months after the interview wanting to schedule a 2nd interview and got bona-fide pissed when zi told them I wasn't interested, already had a job and the other hired me. Oh, and 1 "hired" me, but basically fired me 2 days later, saying the position had been filled and it's only when I'd fly to the lesser 48 and check in that they hold a job. Even though they already hired me. Was sould crushing when basically a bottom choice was like, "nope"**** you Schneider trucking. Utter POS! I had to call friends and family back and say I got the job, but didn't really get the job. Oh and AmeriGas also "you're a perfect fit, we'll be in touch in a day or two with a package" Ghosted me then the manager threatened to call the cops for harassment because I called twice and left messages (2 seperate days) a week later to follow up. Acted like I was a random person and not that he was supposed to be hiring me. Was CRAZY. Can only imagine how that would have been working for someone like that!
I'm seeing the opposite. No shortage of kids coming in with resumes. We could pretty much fill a labourer/apprentice position in a day or 2. Trying to find someone with experience is the challenge.
Did you revive an old thread just to advertise your advertising?
Just a coincidence, not spam. Joe H
The bold text is a linky.
Yes, saw that. Joe H
It has nothing to do with us seeing it. It has everything to do with Google seeing it posted here.
I would assume if it was sketchy, the mods would have disabled it.
AmeriGa$$, now there is a strange company and business model. I’m not sure how they stay in operation.
That’s interesting. I’m estimating from experience that only 20% of entry level applicants can pass a UA, in Alaska. A lot of young people walking around with felonies, too.
I’ve been trying to help the neighbor kid start a pilot car business. He’s graduating HS next spring. Workplace AK would provide the flagging course for free. He’s not sure what he wants to do. Maybe leave the state and see how the pretty people live. Maybe college, maybe the **. Dude, forget that institutional indoctrination. You’ve been stuck in that prison for 12 years. Two of which got wasted during the pandemic. Two of your most valuable learning years. He could make a killing next summer just flagging, with all the projects going on. There is a shortage of pilot car providers, too. Kiddo, let’s make some money. I’ll run chaser for you when the tank biz slows down in the winter. Get some life experience, stack some paper and then figure out what direction to go.
Doug, please explain this, I don't get it. It has nothing to do with us seeing it. It has everything to do with Google seeing it posted here. Joe H
It pops in a search. Gives him traffic, exposure.
Oh! Joe H
As long as you're not high on the job nobody seems to make much of a stink over using weed around here.
Yep and all the quotes have to be edited individually to remove the link.
That whole Thanksgiving thingy got in the way..
I will make sure to remove them going forward
So, can you elaborate on what exactly the violation was? I did click on the link today before you pulled it, I figured maybe it wasn't out of line since it was still up. Looked innocent enough.
Of course not, it's Canada.
IP didn't match up coupled with dredging up an old thread to post a link 99 times out of 100 means
Appreciate you, and to see it got handled. No shock the T-day caused a delay.
I appreciate you too, CM.
It was like that before it was legal. All legalizing it did was make sure the government was able to collect taxes on it.