Good day... I'm about to embark on something I'm not sure about To buy a 931B and a 977L. I know the mechanic of the machines, and they've been sitting since the owner's eyesight is bad from a surgery for about 6 years or so. They are both solid machines, but I'm not a tractor guy like some of you all... with such great experience and knowledge of these machines. I rely solely on my mechanic and his knowledge/expertise. I offered $38,000US for both, and the owner was asking much more. I'll know more today if he accepts my offer or if I'm so eager to pull the trigger. I'd still have to pay to have them moved... about $500 per machine. Any words of wisdom I need to hear? Or any words I don't want to hear?! Haha. Pictures of how they sit today (yes, I know the 931 tracks need adjusting);
In my opinion, if the left side undercarriage is in the same condition as the right side then it looks as both machines undercarriages are pretty well played out. Around here 977L's in decent shape can be bought in the $20,000-$25,000 range. I don't know what 931's are worth so I can't help you on those. Between both machines you could prob spend $20-$25,000 easily just on undercarriage alone. If both machines are otherwise in good mechanical condition you would have @ $60-70,000 wrapped up in 2 machines that are 40-50 years old. You have to decide if that is acceptable for what you are wanting to use them for or not??
My rule of thumb if the owner is to lazy to bolt the covers all back on where else where they slacking at
This is why I asked... For the honest answers. But given the owners condition, there's somethings out of his control. He had a brain tumor causing near loss of vision. During an operation a Dr hit the other eyes optical nerve... He's now, nearly blind at 77. This happened 9yrs ago, so they've been sitting for quite some time. I ran both machines in the past hours, and they work. But, for the work I'd be doing the undercarriage on either would last me my lifetime. They'd really just become "ranch machines" on my 9acres. But, only 3-4 acres is workable (not flat). I have a '96 933C at my house now that I rented private party. I'm trying to buy it, but the owner is super hard to nail down. Hence how I got word of the two machines. The 933 is perfect size for my needs, as in 6hrs runtime I was able to work an unpassable rain rutted rocky switchback road that drops 400ft into a canyon on my property. Now 15' wide and passable. That road hadn't been maintained in 8yrs. In reality, I don't "need" any machinery... I just want it, and for the occasional neighbor ask for help. The 933 is in working condition but rats caused other issues. Plus, not really an erops anymore. That road/area was 5' wide and overgrown with shrubs and 3x3 rain ruts:
More pictures of the 977 and 931
Anyone know the approximate year by serial of either machine?
931B 29Y01821 DOM 3rd Sept 1985 977L 11K4920 somewhere about 1972. It's one of the first line of L models (started at 11K3919) before the 3306 engine was introduced at 11K5083.
Not sure how you come to that conclusion as I'm not saavy enough to understand... I only know what the mechanic(s) tell me (father and son - been in the business for 50yrs, with their own shop at one point). I can see the 931, and put my hands on it... the rear teeth are in great shape, the track rollers, idler, and track bushings... also in good shape. They didn't give me a percentage, but the overall knod on it's worth (to the owner) and worth to me as a homeowner. The 977 on the other hand, it's teeth are worn (I've seen way worse) and the overall undercarriage given a "40%". Bushings weren't too bad, rollers and idler in great shape. Yet, the "widow maker" spring is broken on each side at relatively the same place. Owner said it's been like that for quite awhile. He also said, he's 99% sure he knows where that right side cover is and will locate it for me. The 931 has a hard line leak on the 4in1 bucket (that I can repair myself) and I'll adjust the tracks if it ends up at my place. Plus, I need to locate the seapage around the control valves on it's right side after a good pressure washing. The 977 curl ram on the left side has a bit of a leak or seapage. I'll have the mechanic repair that too. Otherwise, it runs great and operates smoothly. After operating the equipment today... I talked in depth to the owner, and he is accepting my $38k offer for both. That related to the 931 at $16,500 and the 977 at $21,500. I honestly don't think that's a bad deal given my needs and future use and their condition. Thoughts??? Here's some more detailed pictures of what I'm talking about;
The 933C is what started all this... and, led me to even think about owning a crawler loader. Before the 931 and 977... I offered $23,500 on the 1996 933C with 2200 orig hours. ($500 is that I've already paid for transport to my home - part of the rental agreement) ... it's in rough shape overall or on the exterior, been stored outdoors (like most) but it's mostly superficial. I wrote a formal offer to the owner, and I'll be talking to him more in depth this evening. If he hems/haws over my offer or needs more time I'll be cutting ties and moving toward the 931/977. I actually sent him an offer quite sometime ago and he's super tough to get ahold of and in no hurry to pick up the machine or work out a deal for me to purchase. Kind of odd if you ask me. I get busy.... but I don't get it if your machine is at some guys house and no paperwork for a rental has been drawn up, signed, or otherwise. His wife had actually advertised it sometime ago... for $35k. My mechanic said, it's in the 20-25k range given it's condition. So my initial offer of $21,500 was raised to $23k plus $500 for transport (so $23,500) was relative to my mechanic's recommendation after he came over and operated the machine, and looked it over. Any thoughts on these pictures or my offer price? Know... we're in Southern California so everyone thinks all these things are worth more. In my opinion, they're only worth what they'll sell for. And for me, they're only worth what they'll do for me. Since I don't "need" them, I'm not ready to shell out too much for convenience. Double edged sword at this point. I'm trying to be respectable to the owners.
I guess.... only 4 pictures per post, so now I see some of my explanatory pictures are missing. 933C
AWESOME!!! Thank you!!! Great info
Anything BAD about the engine that's in this model ?? I know it's been rebuilt not too many hours ago.
The reason I said what I did was.... If you zoom into the 1st and 3rd pics from your original post, both machines are close to the end of there track adjustments and the sprocket on the 977L appear to be pretty sharp. The sprocket on the 931 appears to be pretty sharp as well but that pic is a little fuzzy. At that time I was assuming you were wanting to use them as production machines since you were dealing on both machines as a package deal. In a later post you mentioned that they were going to be used on your property. That being said they will prob last you quite awhile. The condition of the undercarriage has alot to do with the value of these older machines. I still stand behind what I previously said about them having weak undercarriages. Hopefully they work out good for you.
Yes and the rollers have rubbed the top of the pin bosses on the 931. Can't tell on the 977 because of the rock guards. If they work for you and don't eat you up on repairs don't worry about it.
Seriously doubt that 933C has only 2200 hours on the original clock. Recently replaced the ECM in my 2011 321DL and got a new tractor back with 4 hours on the clock! . Just messing with ya' but one gets the drift...
Copy that.... can't learn unless I ask, right?! The 977 teeth are worn, and not yet sharp but "sharper" than the 931 for sure. In fact, the 931 teeth are in pretty good shape actually. I'm only dealing with both machines, because I can get the buyer to give me a better deal overall. The plan is to keep the 931 longer and possibly put the 977 up for sale at a decent price. If it sells, great... then I got the 931 even cheaper. If not, I can always put it to use but maaaybe once a year on my own property. I wouldn't mind helping neighbors out with brush clearing or road/path work as we all live on 8+ acres and want pads cut or roads widened, etc. Of course... for some milk money. I talked to the 933 owner last night (finally) and he's got a job for it in the next weeks/month. Apparently he's going to be digging a big pond (and he's got other equipment, like a 100k pound excavator) but prefers the 933 for it's ease of use to zip around and clean up the jobsite. But, with that job and it's revenue he's willing to let the 933 go for a price close to or at my offer once the job is done. I'm not in a hurry, but just want to put this decision making process behind me. He even asked if I'd be willing/wanting to run the 933 on his job for him. Hmmm. It's super easy to operate, as it's joy stick control on movement and one lever for curl and bucket up/down. I operated the 933 this AM for 2hrs or so.... regrading and fixing the smoothness of my 'path' from house to canyon floor. Ya'all laugh... as, I never realized the "float" option on the bucket until about 2 weeks ago. I had already gotten the path pretty smooth and clean, but it bugged me that I knew I could get it better by floating the bucket. Boy... so much better this AM! I do notice though, you lose some power in the hydrostat trans. Sure it's easier to manuever, but I've got to power it up to get work done. Then, it's quite a bit more jerky. I'm wondering if the 931 would be smoother or more powerful at a lower RPM even though a tad lighter and a few less hp than the 933. I'm sure I could get more smoother with more stick time... but, I like running the RPM lower and going slower on rocky/hilly/slippery terrain. Thoughts? I totally understand the "weak undercarriage" comment(s). I simply thought for my needs, they'd be okay for quite some time with the 977 occassionally (once or twice a year) being put to work for say 20-40hrs on a "job". My thought now, after talking to the 933 owner (and that he may never come down to my offer price) would be to... Ask the 931/977 owner if he'd be interested in fixing the leaks on both machines, and adjusting the tracks on the 931. And making sure he's got the right side panel for the 977. Charging the batteries on both machines (as I had to jump the 931 and quick charge the 977 batts yesterday). If he did all that, I'd be more inclined to give him the $38k.
Yessir... but, I'm a bit of an overthinker. When it's not in my wheelhouse, it's when I reach out. Not sure you noticed... but I've been a member on here since 2017.... but, with only 1 or 2 posts. I read A LOT on here and love the knowledge sharing. It's amazing and very helpful. Me worry?! Hahaha.... I do... but only at time of purchase. Those worries will go out the window in an hour of time in the seat.
Kinda' what I thought too. Because of it's exterior and some other things I notice. But I don't know what it's been through as the owner is new to me. I only knew of his 933 when I went to buy some welding tank cylinders from his wife. He came out, and he was in process of rebuilding a home... and was finishing the landscaping. He had a mini X with it's hood up, a big skid steer... and, this 933. When I started asking about more stuff (he had all kinds of stuff for sale) we talked about me renting the 933. Hence the reason it's now at my house. The 931/977 owner is new to me too, but his mechanic is my mechanic. And that mechanice knows everything about those two machines as he's done the work on them the last 20yrs or more. I trust the mechanic, as he'd never steer me towards something that would be a constant problem for me. I just need to evaluate worth at this point. What's it worth to ME. I've got a 1967 Case 580CK backhoe/skiploader that does me well too. Ol'Betsy we call'er. Pull two pins, and two hydro lines and it goes from backhoe to skiploader in 30min. Love that thing.... but she sure isn't going to win any beauty pageants. It's hour meter says, 17XX or so! But of course, doesn't work and never has.
I looked for a crawler a while. I found one, make & model most familiar to me. I tried it out, it worked well. Price was at a point where I wouldn't feel cheated if I had to replace undercarriage in 1000 hours. I talked a good friend into going with me to haul it. He was THOROUGH! He ran it at half throttle 30 minutes until the engine was warm. Smoke came from the winch. No reason smoke should come from a winch. We crawled around long enough to find a hose leading to the crankcase vent. There was a lot of blowby in the pistons. Also, there is new yellow paint way up in the bowels of the machine. We found steel welded to the cast iron transmission case. I changed my mind before money changed hands, I walked away from that machine. I later talked to a man who rehabs these John Deere crawlers. He said the front crossmember supports one end of the engine. Where it bolts to the track frame commonly, bolts break. Mechanics in a hurry weld cross member to track frame. Welds aren't flexible, leads to cross member failure. With broken crossmember, transmission housing is stressed, it breaks. My advice: Be very suspicious of sellers. Take advantage of any advice you receive, investigate what they advise. Be brutal in money estimates of repair costs, then decide. I ended up with a Dresser TD7G dozer. It's the size I wanted, the features I wanted. I thought it was in perfect condition until I dug deeper. My son & I spent 4 months working the bugs out. Probably $3000. in parts. We sanded it down, cleaned it up, painted it. Mrs. B. surprised me with a factory set of decals. Put it in service. A month later a keeper bolt fell out, a pin fell out, a track damaged a blade swing cylinder. That proved a big deal, took months to find the repair part. Machinery ownership is not for the weak, faint of heart, or poor.
Of course... and I'm vigilant about a lot of things. However, in this case... knowing the mechanic, who I trust whole heartedly... makes this purchase easy. Meaning, I don't have to trust the seller... as I know his mechanic. The good... is.... all the info I've been getting from this site. Invaluable and MUCH appreciated. Agreed. Kind of like the old saying... "It's not if, it's when"
So good news (for me).... I sent the owner a message and said we have a deal IF... you repair the leaks/seaping, adjust the tracks on the 931 and cover all the costs. I also asked that he find the right side cover (cowl?) for the 977 (as he said he had it... somewhere). As well, the batteries need a good 48hr charge at minimum and thankfully are newer (8/2023). Being hes near blind, he's got to hire a driver and assistant to go anywhere. Then use the driver to look for the cowling for the 977. Total pain in the butt for him, but he's doing it. I'm appreciative. I usually don't put this out there until the equipment is on my property and the sale final... as I tend to jinx it. But, seems this is going to happen. I'll be sending him a deposit as soon as he's nailed down the repairs, found the cowl, and ready to prepare a bill of sale. I'm actually kind of excited. I can't wait to see how that 977 digs, smooths and how much dirt it can move. To think... it's 2/3rds more dirt than the 933 or 931, is just amazing. I wanted to thank all of you... and will post an update once the sale is final, and I'm operating.
Congratulations . May your ownership be troubled free and safe. Personally, I think you might have went the wrong way but am sincerely pulling for you. Generally the goal is to get newer, not older, unless those damn computers and bat crap are involved. Lol
... I don't want to afford newer.
you can get a wear template from CAT or make one and reclaim drive sprocket by welding we used to do it on d9g-h didnt even remove segments because they were welded together as working in rock all ways cam loose,clap earth lead on sprocket weld small beads starting at the tip and work up to root bit at time and as machine works weld metal will even out
Track wear is complicated. New sprockets & new rails are matched in pitch (distance between bushings) As track wears, the pitch increases. I feel 3/8" is if memory serves is considered excessive wear. As sprockets wear, there is some wear deep in the gullet, most wear is at the point of the teeth. Pitch of sprocket decreases with wear as diameter of the sprocket decreases, so does circumference. New chain, the weight of the machine holds the bushing deep in the gullet. Several teeth share the strain as they pull the machine down the track rail. Only each second gullet engages the bushings. As they wear, there is slack in the chain after the first tooth engaged, chain rides high on the teeth except the first tooth engaged. Shops once specialized in pressing pins out, rotate pins & bushings to expose a new surface to wear. They'd either put new sprockets, or build up the old. In reverse there is less weight holding the bushings in the gullet, slack chain allows more wear on the tips of the teeth.
I admire your enthusiasm to buy these old dogs and save them from the scrap yard. If disposable income comes easy and you’re happy to treat these machines as money pits,then go ahead. I have suffered from this disease in the past with debatable results,but I’ve had enjoyable moments too. Here in the UK those would have a value above scrap for sure,but your seller clearly values them much higher. Good luck with you persuading him to reseal those rams.