Hey y'all. My brother's a software guy and he wants to team up with me to build a website where you can video-chat technicians when you've got a question. It would be pretty cheap, like $10 for a 10 minute call Mostly wondering - would you use it, if we made it? I know some great technicians who want to sign up, not like the garbage you see on JustAnswer. I've always wanted to start a company, if you think it's a good idea I'm gonna go ahead and do it
How will the "mechanics" have access to all the needed manuals/part numbers etc. for every specific machine???
Great technicians don't work for cheap.
$10 minutes for a $10 minute phone call is $60 an hour without turning a wrench, that's pretty good - no?
It's a good question. I was thinking we'd buy one of each as we needed it, and once we've got one we can make it available to every tech, so as we grow we'd only need one copy of each manual
Manuals are very expensive, and most machines require multiple manuals. Without a VERY extensive library to start with, I don't see how it can be any more effective than your typical backyard mechanic advice that your older neighbor/grandpa/cousin's uncle's friend gives you.
You are going to pay the tech full rate? You aren't making any money? How are you going to be better than JustAnAnswer? They have some "great techs" as well. Dealer guys, ect What defines a "great tech"?
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums, Jack. This can be found in the Forum Rules: " A vendor of goods or services may create one introductory post or thread explaining their product or service and may answer questions about such within that thread. " Since you made a good faith effort to correct your spamming you get the benefit of the doubt. I removed the other threads to bring you into compliance. Also, it doesn't hurt that your idea has generated some discussion here, which, after all, is why we're here. Carry on...
{Mechanics}
Isn't there already similar service forums?
First of all, $10 for 10 minutes of somebody who is skilled that's not going to fly. You're under selling your service. If you could get a guy like John c. Online for about $50 to get started that would be reasonable. I'm not picking on you John. There are a whole lot of other people that are worth a couple hundred dollars an hour on the phone.
I always thought ide be a legend as one of those phone sechs operators
Yep, you could use my favorite line. " Yep, you tighten that back up and you'll be golden like a shower"
Most just go to youtube.
What I see as a problem, is that even with top notch tech advisors, often times the people your trying to help have few to minimum skill sets, not to mention the thousands of dollars in tools and electronic equipment, it takes to repair modern equipment. As well as parts and wiring diagrams out the ying yang, for every manufacturer. Not to knock your ambition, but I would be looking for a different opportunity. Only my 2 cents.
I remember at an old warehouse I used to work at my boss asked me to find 100000$ that was missing. Took me 3 hours 7 phone calls and multiple in person conversations with different co workers involved and searching the computer records. Nothing was wrong someone forgot to press a button. I’ve also had it where someone pressed the wrong button and instead of going up they went down which through the magic of technology was the difference of ordering 1 vacuum cleaner to… 9999… which the next guy up the ladder approved because he didn’t read the sheet and added it to the pile. 4 people were fired and we got exactly one vacuum. This is a bad business plan. Invest your money elsewhere. There is no connection.
Nobody listens anyway, happens all the time on here: Rookie: I think my problem is the knuffler valve. John C: No, you need to check your gidizzler pin first. Rookie: I changed my knuffler valve and it didn't fix my problem, now what do I do??????
My engine is seized on my grader, what will it take to put in a different engine? "put oil in the cylinders" Do you think there is an SAE adapter? My engine is locked up; "put oil in the cylinders, give it some time." I barred it and it is seized. "did you put some oil in the cylinders?" crickets.
To everyone that has replied, I think we've been down this ungraded road before. Remember the dreaded D-6 thread?
Software guy? A much better thing to do would be to make some real inexpensive, heavy truck and equipment scan tools, that do more than anyother that are offered now. If someone needs to know something from a manual, buying the manual is money better spent than asking someone else and paying them to thumb through a manual. Along with the tool mentioned, rather than pay people to look at manuals, just pay the dues and offer access to the manuals online, for a small fee.
A top 5 classic indeed!
Bet they didn't give you any more than your hourly rate to find them the missing $$$. My brother's boss called him on a weekend in a big panic because he had forgot about a new contract that had to be ready for Monday morning. Offered him cash to help him out. My brother worked all weekend (must ad that my brother no longer worked for the guy). Handed him the up dated contracts with negotiation points, and told him how to handle the guy. He called my brother, and said that they had agreed on the first offer, and that he would drop something off for him that evening as thanks. It was a contract with the local Arbec osb mill. They look after the warehouse. Stacking the lifts of osb as it comes out of the mill. Load the trucks that come in to get product. Truck the board to another warehouse where it is loaded on rail cars to ship. He got all the men in the operation raises, including 2 years back time. Plus the company owner got $90'000 to put in his own pocket, (he had sold the company, but the back time was his). He gave my brother $50 bucks.
Thanks, I appreciate the benefit of the doubt. Looking to get some advice on what would make this useful to everybody in the forum, so hopefully some good comes of it.
We were going to take something like a 2% rake. Because this is going to be software-based, it's not like we need to cover rents, so we can pass through most of the money to the tech - which helps attract talent. I was thinking that JustAnswer covers a lot of ground (you can get tax advice on there), and by focusing just on getting technicians, we can cast a wider net and then vet more aggressively, to only let the best on. For "great tech", I was thinking dealer tech with minimum 5 years of experience. What do you think?
This is good advice man. I don't know that we've got the hardware chops to make a scan tool, unfortunately. How about: - We buy manuals for a bunch of common units - We built a website to let you ask questions in plain english (hey what's the torque spec for X on a 2014 cat D6) and give you answers from the relevant manuals - Then sell access to that tool Does that make more sense to you as a company?
Wait just a second, isn’t that what’s happening here on HEF? Last time I checked, all the advice here is free, what would cause someone to go out there and pay for it? There isn’t much a dealer can tell you that someone here doesn’t have access to. I’ll not even go into the labor pool discussion or ask where the hell you think you’re going to find “great techs” let alone find a dealer technician with only 5 years experience that comes close to great. Most of the folks here have literally spent their lives gaining the knowledge and experience they have and are still learning from others on here daily. The whole idea of buying manuals sounds completely ludicrous to me, no way that’s feasible as there are way too many “common models” of machine. Maybe I’m alone in this opinion but I don’t see any way of this working out with the information that you’ve given. Another point to take in consideration is, all new equipment is very software based on operation strategies through ECM controllers and many things can only be done by the dealer with more and more advanced technologies going that direction. The “nuts and bolts” end of things is getting narrower every day. I definitely encourage anyone that’s interested to find their corner of the market and go after it but I’m not sure there’s anything here to be had as any big customer wouldn’t use it as they have high level dealer access and homeowner types dont pay the bills long term.
No. That one was out on its own at the top of the table and nothing remotely like it has ever been seen since. It finally quit at 68 pages IIRC. There have been one or two threads that had promise but as soon as someone posted "this has all the potential of rivalling the famous D6 thread" things seemed to fizzle out........ My 2c. YMMV.
Another great response, thanks for the feedback man. Sounds like most people think this idea is somewhere between mediocre and god-awful, which is really good to know, honestly. If we were to take this in another direction - how about if we just try to take a little friction of out mechanics' day to day? I'm thinking: - You upload or scan a version of the manuals you already own (once) - Then whenever you're working on a unit, you can talk to it in plain English ("what's the torque spec on this bolt") and it talks back, so you don't have to go click through files on a laptop with greasy hands. Do you see that one being more useful? Guys have to have manuals already, but it gets rid of gets rid of the need to buy manuals and to go find mechanics
I made 15$ an hour and fell behind on my own work haha
Well . . . dealer techs? About 10% of those guys are really any good, the rest just kind of drift along the corporate river. 5 years? That's about when the guy can be counted on to carry out low level tasks without screwing something up on a daily basis. I hate talking to computers. I suspect a lot of the guys around here would agree. I have shop rags for the greasy fingers. Grease gives the keyboard character anyway. Anybody that needs AI to tell them what to torque the bolt they are holding should probably go work for Penske of something. Reportedly the service guys go through the service with headsets with an AI voice telling them what to do next . . . lol Most of the friction in the day comes from customers, service writers, salesmen and managers. Got any solutions for that? Maybe a robot that stands guard by the toolbox and wards off the aforementioned individuals?
You will have a million or so invested in manuals. And like mentioned above, all that info is free here, and at a dealer. I would never pay to talk to a tech when I can do it for free at a dealer. And besides I have learned if I have a question most of the time no one else knows it either. Spend the $ on that cheap industrial scan tool, something that is really needed. Something that exceeds and does everything and more than what any proprietary dealer or manufacture system will do. And keep the cost of said unit under $1500. A software guru should be adept at C programming and maybe some assembly. You will need to do like China does on the systems they back engineer for their scanners. Your unit should be able to alter the operating system of the ECU's and PCM's what ever you like to call them and be easy to do and understand how and what needs changing. Then there are those master controllers like used in the Freightliner trucks that were and may still be unobtainium, CPC I think they are called. Maybe also start repairing such things, since learning the inner workings will be part of creating your new scanner. Sorry there are just so many other things that a mechanic needs other than pay to read a shop manual. Your idea is horrible and you will get no where with it. You would make more with a Taco stand in an industrial park. There are lots of join a club PDF shop manuals online now. Then there are people like me, I hate a manual on a computer, it takes forever to find stuff. The good old paper manuals easy and fast, and you don't need a battery device to see it.
Just priced a manual for Cat 336FL...... $1400.
And a large percentage of them are knock-off copies from Eastern Europe that aren't worth the money. That's why they are so cheap. From the feedback of various posters on this forum the USB manuals aren't a patch on a genuine OEM manual. There is nothing to stop anyone with a pdf manual printing it all out in paper form. At the end of the day provided the pdf manual is OEM there is no difference between the two forms regarding the information they contain.
Hard to see how this will work. I keep manuals for all my machines i find it much easier to find what i need. If its a dirty job or out in the field ill plan ahead and make copies of the pages i need on the old copier we keep in the office. If im stuck theres a ton of real information here on HEF.Either I read up the problem or discuss it on a thread.
Yes, the Western Star 3406 repair thread from a month or 2 ago was treading pretty deep into the same water but I think the OP realized that so stopped posting. Like the song, Isn't it ironic... some good advice you just didn't take. I thought it was pretty obvious a shop can't just start taking things apart and buying parts without a signed work order. As for this thread it's basically trying to emulate this forum in a pay for advice format. A bad idea that's not going to work. All the experienced guru's are already doing it for free on here.
Wait!? .............we don't get paid for this??!
Check is in the mail vetech
Jack......I need some additional options listed on your original post so I have something I can select. Such as.... 0 Scrap this idea and supply dancing girls for HEF. 0 Invite all who responded to a saloon. ALL drinks are on me! 0 Convince my brother to design us a casino slot machine with heavy equipment on the reels. 0 Build a website for heavy equipment operators and techs/mechanics that has virtual alcohol, psychologists, EMT's, and massage therapists. Use your imagination!
Now if there was a device invented that would record my phone time handing out advice to others, send them an invoice for an apropriate consulting fee and direct deposit it into my bank account. Just kidding,im always glad to help others out where i can.I apreciate the help thats been offered to me over the years,pay it forward.
How about setting it up so everyone on here gets paid for their great advice telling you and your brother not to proceed with this poorly thought out idea. It would save you a lot of money and time that could be put to better use. The other option in the poll should have been: this is a bad idea since the same thing is already available for free on the same forum you pitching your idea. The idea is basically asking if a paid version of HEF would be viable.
I have had manuals copied before, at a printing outfit, and yes that is an option. I miss the old days when the photos in manuals seemed like real photos and not a dark photo copy that shows little to nothing. The best manual I have ever seen is for a certain brand sewing machine, all photo's very sharp and detailed, in color, detailed instructions as well, didn't say remove this or that, it shows it. Makes equipment and automotive manuals look like crap.
I definitely understand the premise. I use a similar thing for routine doc visits that I just need a simple treatment or advice for but there are a couple hitches… Your independent guys likely don’t have the time with self employment demands Your dealership guys like me are forbidden from this (it’s moonlighting) DieselLaptops already has independent tech support similar to this and I have no idea about their quality. Some manufacturers already have this service. Trying to assist over the phone or video chat is horrible as well. I’ve had to help customers and it doesn’t work very well because it’s hard to relate stuff over a phone with this.
If I could build that i'd already have done it... Enough people have **** all over the "talk to a tech" idea that I won't belabor it - thanks for the feedback man. On the voice idea; is the problem with not liking the idea of talking to your computer, or just that it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist because you don't spend a lot of time looking for schematics or specs?
Look we ain’t crapping on your ideas so much as saying that they are not the way to go. The problem with an AI system is it has no idea what you are truly looking at and trying to get an answer for and the owning company will be feeding it service information that is oftentimes already hard to understand (the Engrish translations you get with cheap consumer goods also happens to an extent at higher levels). My dealer’s prime OEM is infamous for writing their manuals in strict Engineerish as well. While I’d appreciate a simpler system I also don’t trust a third party to correctly convey the information, especially given the mistakes and such I’ve seen in the parent information. As a dealer mechanic solving complex system issues I spend a lot of my time with schematics, system operation write ups, and parts diagrams. Your AI or talk to a tech ideas might sound good to you but being there in person is about the only way to truly investigate a problem and learn a system. I can tell you translating a hydraulic diagram to what’s actually on the machine is not easy and is not going to be grasped by someone miles away and is damn sure not going to be grasped by an AI system. Most of my day to day stuff is very hands on for a reason. We also often work in loud environments and trying to have phone conversations doesn’t work well. And I can tell you from trying to get anything done with my phone’s Siri and my house’s Alexa not only would I not pay for such a service if my boss told me I had to use it I’d probably quit. I have enough rage, I don’t need more. The diagnostic software idea mentioned earlier has far more merit especially if you add in an optional service to remote in. Your issues would be doing a ton of programming to crack it and then you’d most likely lack volume for sales, which is a big barrier. The reason you can buy $30 code readers for automotive is the standardized systems and the sales volume is extremely high The most in demand stuff I know has pirated copies floating around. You may also run into regulatory issues concerning emissions.
I don't like talking to computers. Siri, Alexa, the Verizon phone tree or any other chatbot. They never really have a good answer, they misunderstand you half the time, ect. I don't think Mankind is doing itself any favors with AI, but that is another topic for a different place. What JD said above is right, you aren't going to get a computer to solve complex problems. If you could I wouldn't want anything to do with it anyway.
Personally I wish computers were never invented, they have in some cases done more harm than good. Best use for them is CNC that is it.
It's good advice man, I really do appreciate it. A bunch of "this sucks" now will spare us a bunch of "this sucks" after spending time and money building something people don't want. Last thought - what if it's not complex stuff, but pretty basic info retrieval? If you're looking up "what's the torque spec", it's a single answer that doesn't require the AI to do anything fancy or make any guesses. Are there enough small questions like that to make something useful, so you don't have to find manuals, search within them, or deal with hotspots or logins?
I think most of those type of questions can be answered on here already. Less common machines can be hard finding some of that info but would rarely be needed. However being a source for hard to find info on less common or older machines (or the manufacturer is no longer around) that are still being used could be a good platform people might be willing to pay for. For example if someone had an older crawler and the undercarriage is no longer made. If you did research and could find what someone else has done to adapt more common undercarriage to keep their machine working could be really beneficial or what would work as a replacement hydraulic pump, easiest engine swap, etc.