Hi guys, I recently purchased a 2005 JLG 400S with F 3M 2011 Deutz (ser #1037316) and in the process of changing fluids and filters. I could not find anywhere instructions on changing engine oil and figured it would be easy but am having issues. The drain plug is on the side of the pan on the "in" side with only a small space to access and the oil drains over the thick mounting plate causing it to spread and drain all over the place. I left the plug out for about 20 minutes and checked the dipstick which showed empty. I replaced 5 quarts with Schaeffer's 5 - 40 synthetic and dipstick showed full. It ran for a few minutes and checked the dipstick again. The oil was black so I must have not drained all the oil. A few questions please: * Okay to run full synthetic? Or now what appears to be a mixture of 5+ quarts new and 1+ quart of who knows what? * Info on web says 6.3 quarts of oil, correct? * Is there an easier way to drain the engine? * There are 2 fill caps on the engine. 1 on top and 1 on the rear "in" side. Is there another reservoir to drain and fill? * Should I drain and start over since the new oil seems to be mixed with old oil? I have no idea the type of old oil in the engine. * The dipstick I have only has 1 set of hash marks. The dipstick in the operation and parts manuals show 2 sets of hash marks (1 set for cold and 1 set for hot). Do I have the wrong dipstick? Any and all help greatly appreciated!! Thank you!!
None of that bothers me at all. Maybe change the oil at less than the suggested interval if you don't like it turning black right away, that's sort of the nature of a diesel, and especially one that idles most of the time. I'd run conventional if you're not going to use the full life of the oil though. You could get a suction system to drain the oil, or park on a slant so the oil drains one way or the other. I'd watch the oil pressure, but if the dipstick looks original, then I'd trust it.
Thank you Delmer. Is good news and great to hear! Thank you for the quick response. No oil pressure gauge on the machine. There is a sending unit I guess I could connect to. Any other way to check the pressure?
You must have an idiot light somewhere? with the oil lamp icon? That's probably an on/off sender for an idiot light. you could check to see if the resistance to ground changes on that sender, or tee into that port and put a pressure gauge right there.
Probably so but I don't trust them. I will hook up a gauge. Thank you!
The engine platform unbolts and swings out of the machine enough to access the backside of the engine. Should be a 15/16" head bolt to the frame, IIRC. The oil cooler (looks like a radiator on a conventional engine) holds a good bit of oil and usually has a drain plug you can access with the engine swung out. I'm just going off of memory since we don't have any JLGs in the yard at the moment, but hope this helps.
This helps a lot, thank you! I see now in the manual that a engine swing out tray is standard and total capacity is 11 quarts with cooler holding 4.75 quarts. Was baffled by some of the hard to get to items behind the engine but this makes sense. Great info! Thank you thank you!
That's an oil cooled engine, when you do an oil change (dump the oil in the pan) you don't dump all of the oil that's in the engine because or the remaining oil in the cooling system. There's no practical way to dump all of the oil, just drain what's in the pan at recommended intervals, that's the way they're designed.
10-4. Just concerned because purchased at auction, had been sitting for a while and have no idea type and weight of oil so would like to drain as much as possible. The engine swing platform works great! Pulled it out and am able to access and clean up the mess I made. Great info - THANK YOU Marshall! Found the drain plug on the oil cooler. If drained, the issue would be refilling oil cooler since it is higher than the fill hole on the engine. I guess you have to remove one of the hoses on the cooler? Or can the engine be filled with 6.3 quarts, started and ran for a minute, shut off and add more oil? Thanks guys!
Yep, sounds like you got it. Another thing, in case you didn't know, that engine has a timing belt, Duetz recommends replacement every 2K hours. I've gone a little longer on them, but I try to go no more than 3K hours. If you don't know the history of when that belt was replaced and the machine is nearing 2K hrs you might consider getting that belt replaced. It costs a helluva lot more money if you let that belt go down.
Has 4,000 hrs. Sticker on the side states it was reconditioned by JLG in 2014. I wonder if JLG would share their service records. Will probably proceed with timing belt replacement anyway. Thank you!
Machines reconditioned by JLG are typically top notch machines in my experience, but yeah, with 4K hrs on it I think I'd replace that timing belt straightaway.
We just drain the cooler, overfill the engine, run it a minute and top off as needed. Deutz manuals say timing belt every 3k hours/5 years, definitely good to not push them out too far (have had plenty of customers that have, but I wouldn't chance it). Either need to find someone that has the tooling for Deutz engines, or spend the $$ on timing pins, belt tension gauge, and the security bit for the timing cover.
TommyJLG I posted some tips in the other thread you asked this question in. I Also just did the timing belt myself, ask away if you have questions. It’s not a difficult job but you need to do it correctly otherwise there will be repercussions.
10-4. Will spend $$ to get the necessary tools. My buddy also has a 400S with 4,000 hrs and we can share. Easier to learn and repair than hauling and waiting and return haul with chance that mechanic wasn't capable. After this current construction project is complete, we'll first pull the cover and inspect. I started a new thread for replacing timing belt. Please share any and all. Thanks guys!
you can replace the toothed belt without the timing pins just be damn sure don't move the engine pulleys when replacing the belt once its off, the belt slides carefully straight off the pulleys. Slide the new belt on and THEN replace and torque the idler pully when using an OTC belt tension gauge. I bought a belt kit with the belt and idler pulley and bolt,(Foley Engines)..successfully have done two engines so far this way easy to do if you have the mindset. You need a tamperproof torx bit set to get the lower left hand plastic cover screw out too..PITA. I have seen one of these engines with hard to believe meter documented over 14,000hrs on it with the original belt..in a remote location unserviced for years,all the "employees" did was put fuel in it..incredible statement as to the durability of that belt and engine. FWIW my engines have a 5gallon pan I just dump the oil pan contents when PMing them and replace..the little bit in the cooler and lines isnt gonna hurt anything
Jlg recommends not draining the cooler when servicing. Just the crankcase.
Hi guys, we changed the belt and was pretty dern easy. Thank you for the help (we used the pins to be safe). Have any of you had fuel flow problems with the 2011? Machine runs rough, then dies like it is out of fuel. I searched the threads and found that there is an in line fuel pump filter which could be clogged and maybe the fuel pump is out. Any advice on parts and procedures would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Was a dead bug stuck in the fuel supply line at the 90 degree plumbing bend on top of the fuel tank. Was obviously in the tank and got sucked up while in high gear and bouncing around. Hope this helps.
I have a electric lift pump suction up to my mechanical lift pump that is mounted on the engine,the electrical connector came unplugged once when we were cleaning the machine,it gave the same symptoms as you described until we found the unplugged connector for the lift pump,reconnected all was fine after about 45sec running time. Dont know where your inline fuel filter is didnt know it had one other than the stock block mounted spinon fuel filter..the mechanical lift pump is cam driven,easy to replace just unbolt the old one and install the new one connect the fuel lines and go. anyway the two oil fill caps fill the same pan,just two located for convenience depending on how/where your engine is installed so you can get to them..Isuzu is the same way with both top and side oil fill caps.FWIW
There’s also a screen under the cap of the lift pump. Take the two torch or philips screws (can’t remember which they are) off the pull the cover. The screen is under that.
Hi guys! We're back after a few more hundred hours on the machine and it is running great but leaking fuel in the filter and pump area. I'm changing lines and filters and the Bosch manual push fuel pump and cleaning the fuel screen on the fuel pump and will hopefully have some knowledge to share. Am also changing the oil and thought it'd be a good idea to drain the oil cooler/radiator in case there was any sludge buildup. Swung the engine out and drained everything fine. I have the 4 cylinder 2011 and the manual states that it could take 13 liters. I was only able to drain maybe 8 liters including pan, filter and cooler. The dipstick read between the lines so the oil was not low. Am I missing something? Also please: Can the radiator/oil cooler be refilled without pulling off the main hoses? (should have thought of that first). If so, how many liters to put into the cooler? Also, the wire came disconnected from the oil pressure sending unit and the engine died of course. Glad I wasn't up in the lift. I squeezed the blade connector with pliers to make a tighter fit and its tight now. Easy fix but the wires are brittle. Just in case the motor dies on you, check the pressure unit. Thank you!!
Your fuel filter leaking, I can just about bet why, I've dealt with that for years on those engines. I just posted a thread for the fix to that. > HeavyEquipmentForums
As for your other fuel leak, you need to check the injection pump units. On those engines each injector has a pump unit. Remove the metal cover just above the filters, two 13mm hex head screws, see if you have wet fuel on one or more injector pump units. Common problem on those engines, where the injection line connects to the pump unit, that fitting of the injection pump unit has an o-ring that seals it where it screws into the injection unit housing, very common for that o-ring to age and leak. It's an easy fix to replace that o-ring if that's what you have leaking. As for the harness wires getting brittle, yes, that's a common problem as well, gets brittle to the point of insulation falling off the wire leaving bare wires, you may notice that as well when you pull that cover off.
All GREAT info Willie, thank you! The fuel (a lot) is all around the fuel filter so that is probably it for now. I will pick up a replacement base from that supplier. Where can we pick up the o rings please? Ill wrap the wires with 3M electrical tape for now. Thank you!
Do you think its okay to just replace the amount oil removed from pan, filter and cooler into the top filler which goes into the pan?
So the fuel base is warped a good bit and was probably the culprit. I imagine it straightens up when the filter is tightened but this looks extreme. Thank you Willie! New base on the way. I thought I have a 4 cyl but counted the fuel injectors and only found 3... Manual says 6 liters with filter and 9 liters if you include the oil cooler for engine F3M 2011.
YES! That's exactly what I was referring to. I've got brand spanking new ones, OEM Deutz, straight out of the box that look warped just like that and I'm not exaggerating. Since I've started using the die cast metal base from HQ Motorservice I haven't had that problem. When I change oil on Deutz 1011/2011 engines I typically simply drain the oil pan and change filters, there's really not a significant amount of oil in the cooler. Unless it has an external radiator type oil cooler, then I'll drain that.
BTW, do you mind if I borrow your picture and add it to the thread I started about that fuel filter base?
I think I have the info on the o-rings at work, I'll check when I go back on Monday. As for the harness, if it's really bad they sell the internal engine harness at HQ Motorservice as well, I've had to replace them on two of our engines. > https://www.ebay.com/itm/153200810626
Yes, by all means please use the photo. Thank you for the harness info as well!! I have the external radiator type cooler. Do you remove one of the top hoses to fill? Holds around 3 liters. Thank you for all the great info!!
If you have an external oil cooler then there should be a fitting near the bottom to drain it. Once you get the plug removed you should be able to crack the top hose fitting to allow it to vent so the oil will flow out better. No need to fill it, that will happen when you start the engine
O-ring for the injector delivery valve is 14mm x 2mm. It's not a hard fix, just make sure you clean things well before you do the repair, don't want any dirt getting in the delivery valve port. And be gentle removing the delivery valve, it's been a while since I've done on and can't recall what's in there, maybe a spring and a ball or poppet. It's not going to fly apart, just saying be careful, don't want to drop those bits and lose them.
Hi Willie, the part is genuine Deutz! and looks super straight. Will install this weekend and share any out of the ordinary install information if there is any. Feel free to use the photos. Thank you again!
Just found this thread, great info guys! Picked up a 4” water pump recently; powered by a F 2L 2011. Found fuel pump screen very dirty, cleaned. Changed oil/ fuel filters. Running well no issues so far. Pump side is another issue, needs full rebuild…torn apart waiting for parts from Italy (Varisco).
Yes, you can run across straight ones, imagine that! LoL. But be careful, even though it's straight, don't overtighten the fuel filter, that area between the two hose barbs is a weak spot, even though they have an (inadequate) plastic brace there. If you overtighten the filter it will bend the filter housing in that spot.
great information on the Deutz engine Maint. I would like some information adjusting the backlash on the main turret. My unit is a 2013 400s running a Deutz engine. On a cursory examination it would appear the drive motor can be adjusted closer to the ring gear to remove backlash. any help would be appreciated....Jim