There has been discussion from some of you concerning officers from occupational health & safety inspecting work/project sites, finding violations etc. My question.. and this is just out of curiosity. How frequent are these inspections on your work site, and are there some of you that never see an officer? In this area its my opinion they are not as sharp as they should be. Probably could fuel a lot of debate, as in some places they are very vigilant. My next question...What are your thoughts/opinions concerning these officers and what they are required to do? To tough? Not tough enough?
they come on my jobs and look around for a little bit and leave they never gave me a hard time knock on wood. but i know if they want to they can really break balls if they want too.
I was doing a big commercial wall on a busy road when they pulled up oneday. I was kind of expecting it because of the exposure. Anyway, guy walks over, introduces himself and asks for our cards (Called a Blue Card here)...so we start getting them out and he says "no, not that crap...your business card....I need a wall built at my place"
They come here once a year. The Seafood plants bring them in. They used to very seldom go anywhere but them. Then a couple years ago a company was laying 24" ductile iron waterline. The operator had to relieve himself so he set the bucket on the side of the trench and headed for the outhouse. His tail gunners got ready for the next joint and one got out of the trench and hooked the next joint to his bucket. When the operator came back he got in his hoe, hit the throttle, yarded the bucket off the ground an spun the machine around to walk back a bit. It yanked the pipe into the trench on top of his tail gunners. One was lucky and wasn't hurt to bad. The other one was busted up bad. It broke a leg, one arm, six ribs and ruptured his spleen. They didn't think they were going to be able to save his hand it was smashed so bad. He eventually healed up but still has trouble with it. That brought them in and they went over everyone and have been back every year since. They seem to have their own pet peeves. Years ago I was running a hoe on a pipe job. I jumped in the trench and was helping the pipe layer with a connection when an osha inspector walked up to the trench. She introduced herself and asked why I didn't have a hardhat on? I told I just jumped out of my machine. She told me not to do it again or she would fine me and the company. Then she asked how long the side window had been cracked on our loader. Her pet peeve was broken glass. She fined them for everyone she found. Although He's never got to us there's an inspector they call inspector gadget. He actually puts on a toolbelt with all sorts of meters and gauges and starts to go over your shop. He usually writes everyone several thousand dollar fines. He isn't interested in helping anyone comply, He's only interested in how large a fine he can level on everyone. Its those kind of people that breed contempt for all of them. Luckily he hasn't got to us yet.
Another reason I like a family run business. No outside employees. No OSHA
Around here I believe an owner operator operation can be fined as well. Now that summer is here the tan hats are making rounds mostly busting folks without hard hats,vests,saftey glasses etc,and I do agree the ones around here make the trailer park boys look like ivy league school grads
We would be lucky to see an inspector once a year and when he does come he will look at our plant and make suggestions where we should have extra guards etc. Like he said, if he comes back in three or six months time and nothing has been done, then he might get a bit grumpy and after all, it is in our own interests. Our Mines Department funds a very good programme where they hire a private health company to come out and conduct health checks on us and our employees once every couple of years. They also employ people to come out and conduct on the job safety and hazard courses such as noise and dust suppression etc. On a lighter note, we have a quarry owned by a multi-national company not far from us and a local lad worked there as assistant manager for a few years. He then moved to one of their city quarries and from there he went to the Mines Department as an OH & S inspector. He came back to inspect the local quarry and instructed the present manager who has also worked there for a number of years, to put guards on the drives on their wetting conveyor. With that the manager turned to him and said "Well, you were the one that b***** well took them off in the first place!", which he had. Rn'R
In the UK its HSE Health & Safety Executive. Its very rare to get a visit and when they do it is more in an education and enlightenment role. Unless, as happened just a few months ago in which case they are called along with the Police, even then it seems pretty low key but they are the guys who will ultimately see you in court if that is where you are deemed to be needed But they do have purges on specific areas of the industry at different times, though even these are warned about a month or two in advance. Then God help you if your caught out. Most major sites have a safety officer and they can turn up or drive by anytime. The grief then gets fed back down the food chain depending on the error, PPE, Personal Protective Equipment, Hard hat, High Vis, Safety Boots and on this site Glasses and Gloves are a reminder of what is required but this site has a few RED cards. Working at Height without proper protection, be that in a cherry picker with no harness or not clipped on, or on a bridge deck without suitable edge protection, crossing a live traffic lane and operating an item of plant without the relevant certificate / card are all instant removal from site. I've met some real *****s but most are human and accept that we are human and all have a job to do. Them and us.
Dwan, it doesn't matter that you have only family members working. If you were only a one man band, OSHA could still enter your jobsite and write citations on whatever they found. Generally speaking, the hotter or colder it is, the less they will visit. But if you have an incedent or there is one nearby, expect to see them more frequently. The inspectors are just like the DOT fellas, treat them with respect and compliance, and it's likely they will only write a warning at worst and do some educational lecturing. Tick them off with a belligerent attitude, and you will suffer the consequences. Having repeat violations will definitely bring them around more frequently. Grader4me asked if they were not sharp enough or didn't get out on site enough? Those that do not have experience or expertise on what you are doing, can go back to the office and discuss your project with another member that does. OSHA is understaffed and always has been. Those inspectors that have been in the industry for a while, in my experience, don't miss much, but sometimes give a guy a break if they see that he's trying hard to be in compliance. Like anything else, many times it's their interpretation and judgment of the regulations in writing a citation. If you feel that they are wrong, file an appeal. Best to get in on the right side of these guys and work out a good relationship with them. It just might save your butt on your current or another project.
Several years ago, before I had any employees, I was working a Federal Contract for some dirt work. The Engineer on the job was a young smart-axx,with no field experience. I was using a tractor pulling a pan and a dozer for the job. One morning I found a red ribbon tied to the tractor door handle with a note taped to the window. The note was from the Engineer, stating that the tractor was not in OSHA compliance as it did not have seat belts. The tractor was not to be used till it was in compliance. I smiled while reading the note, and started the tractor. A few minutes later the Engineer showed up and then left the site. A short time later the Engineer came back with the Federal Contracting Officer for the job. The contracting Officer was very angry that I had ignored the note and started to work with the tractor. She ordered me to stop work as I was in violation of Federal Law while working on a Federal Contract. Every time that I tried to speak she would cut me off. I then took her note and wrote on the back OSHA 1975.3 d and handed it to her. I asked her if she was familar with OSHA regulations, she informed me she was very familar with the regulations, and that my tractor was inviolation, that the tractor was not to be used. Not trying to be a smart-axx I suggested that she re-read the regulations, as OSHA did not govern self-employed contractors. She stated that she would check my claim and send me a written answer. The red ribbon remained on the tractor for two days, then disappeared. I did not recieve her written ruling for another five days, this meant a total of seven days down time. I finished the contract with out another incident, and requested a contract change order for additional $18,200.00, for time lost while the Contracting Officer read the OSHA regulations. The Contracting Officer paid it. OSHA does not regulate self-employed a construction worker. The tractor did not have seat belts when new. I have since installed seat belts as I now have employees. Don't get me wrong, I believe in safety, I just do not like smart-axx people.
Thanks Dave, In 26 years as a owner operator I have been asked by OSHA several times if they could inspect my equipment and shop area. Every time they have asked I tell them I am a sole proprietor and have no employees. Then in return say thanks and cancel there visit. Now I am not saying they do not have authority over me but if they do they have never used it. That is why I stated earlier "No outside employees. No OSHA"
Not that I don't trust everyone :cool2 So I looked up that OSHA 1975.3 d statute. Cool. :drinkup http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24317
That is good information. I've never really gave any thought to the self employed with no employee's senerio. I'm going to look into that a little deeper up here. Makes good sense though..
I don't have any employees, except me. Since I'm incorporated and I am the employee I wonder how that works?
Your cooperation is an entity in itself and pays you as an employee therefor your corp. needs to carry WC insurance on you. I never have seen an advantage for 1 person to incorporate.
ZHKENT, Thanks for checking on the OSHA ruling, since I am from the Show-Me state, I know where you are coming from. It is my understanding that does not matter if you are a corp. or not. Only if you have any employees. I know that a partnership is treated the same. At the time of my incident I had formed a LLC. I am curious if you are a straight corp. maybe a sub chaper s, or a LLC, and why you choice? DWAN, I formed an LLC. for liability protection. I did not want to put personal assets at risk of attack should things go sideways. An LLC offers personal protection, with the added benefit of pass-through tax savings. The LLC is treated as a sole propritership for tax purposes. A straight corp. is indeed a seperate entity for tax purposes, which means for every dollar the corp earns it pays a tax, then every dollar it pays the owner in salary the owner then has to pay tax on it again. It just depends of the situation and future goals which is best. Now that the business has grown, I have employees. I have never had a visit from OSHA, but I try to be prepared. Since the business has shifted into bridge construction I figure a visit is coming. I know that I like to go home at night and I want my employees to also.
That is interesting info, thanks!
D3B Dave, My company is a straight corporation, or c-corp. My main motivation was to save on taxes. In 1988 I got nicked for an even third of gross. Dozer was depreciated, didn't have many expenses, and got hammered for 10k. I sold that dozer the next year. Now my taxes seem fairly reasonable. The only downside I've heard about is if I ever want to liquidate the corp out, especially selling it all at one time. But in our line of work I've seen a pretty much retired guy sell off a piece of equipment every now and then, probably not much tax there as the profit would of went to his pay. Would think a guy could work it like that.
Hey, our OHS guy comes once every two months, he trolls about, stops a few machines to check log book and makes sure we are always equipped with first aid kits, and fire extinguishers in every machine etc. There always is cause that's part of my job as OHC worker co-chair. We have yet to get any cites but he's pretty easy goin'.
I found out years ago here in Texas (and I guess everywhere) even as an owner operator (one man operation) if you have a processing machine of any kind (I was using a link belt scalping screen) you belong to MISHA. From then on it was scoop and load only. Haven't seen them one time after. That was about 1987:cool2
Not often enough. Even though I do pull off some "off the wall" stunts from time to time, could you imagine how much more dangerous this industry would be if there was no OSHA? Having them around or just knowing (and fearing) that they may come around helps keep people walking on the straight and narrow. I like what I do and would really like to live another day without any accidents ruining my day. OSHA helps me increase my chances of making it home after a long day or night. That way, I can wake up and do it all over again....and thats a good thing :drinkup
:iagree After reading your post I guess my first post was thrashing OHS for being a little slack in my area. They are spread quite thin throughout the province. You are right as without them safety in the work place might not be followed as good as it should. Fear of them showing up on the worksite is a good thing as employers/employees will hopefully follow the practice of "due dilligence" and work safely. Thanks for your post ROP as it was well said.
Only once has OSHA showed up on a job while I was on it. To bad for me since I had just complained the day before that the operator didn't have the trench sloped back enough. Everyone in the company though I called them. Only one of the old timers that really knew me and believed that I didn't call them would let me on his job. So I quit, good thing though got a job offer for $1/hr more and a nicer machine. Good thing OSHA ain't around me more with some of the things I've done, but I do know where to draw the line I've never got anyone hurt.
my company has had one osha violation since it was founded in 1952. I pride myself on that fact. NOT ONE SINGLE loss time work related accident. And to be honest we had the violation coming. No harness in an aerial work platform. I was there, I should have stopped him on the spot but didn't. Now if you want to talk about being spread thin. The entire state of California only has 2 workers comp investigators. MY workers comp is INSANE.
Thats exactly the point and what Pete said above. We call OHSA (Worksafe) the "Toothless Tiger" over here. They are understaffed, underfunded and often inadequatley trained or experienced. The Insurance Underwriters know this so they submit their industry premiums accordingly (and the government oversees premium charges). If OHSA was more visible, more open and more approachable then I'm sure the industry could clean up those minority morons who result, due to claims, in the 60 to 70% inflated premiums (the premiums are a direct reflection of the cost of claims). Accidents will happen and those unfortunate people involved deserve all the help they get....but there are operators out there that just go looking for trouble....and we all end up paying for it. I'd like OHSA to come out and review my operation.....and I'd like to get a discount on my workers comp for being a safe operator .....unfortunatley, the person who gets most injured in my company is me
That seems to be the way it goes sometimes. A couple years ago I got my year end report from our insuance company. We had five accidents during the past year. Four of them were one of the owners.
How do you prepare? This is a great thread. So, if you know OSHA and other regulators can appear unannounced, what sort of things must you do to survive a site inspection?
The best thing to do is do a daily checklist, and follow it to the letter. Show training records, take photos of the violations, then immediately correct the problem, and take photos the same day of the corrections. Make sure the photos have dates on them, and have them printed immediately. Be courteous, and professional. If they ask for safety plans, MSDS, etc. Make sure you have them, and present them. If they ask when you do safety inspections, respond, "Constantly" I have had OSHA inspectors on my job sites, and received a few violations. I did the above, and the fines were waived, and violations disappeared. Because I showed immediate improvement, and documented everything. Dont get caught with your pants down. While some of the regulations may seem rediculous, make an effort to follow them.
At a seminar a few years we were told osha was suppose to insp. every const. site that they drove by. At the time there was a Co. being insp. several times a day- they tried claim harrasment but could not make it stick. Osha office was only down the street
i know here theres a person with OSHA you can call and they will come out and give your company a mock inspection and give you a report on everything that needs fixed and that will give you a good chance of not getting too big of a ticket when they show up for real. i know here OSHA themselves will tell you, youre getting a ticket for something, they actually came out once and couldnt find anything wrong with the equipment or workers so they wrote a ticket for cutting a tree that touched another tree on the way down, so enless theres some other circumstance that they wont stay around to inspect (cold or snowy..happened once to us, the inspector said it was too cold and to make sure to wear out PPE and be careful) your getting a ticket in WV
The company I work for hired a retired OSHA inspector to come in and do a mock inspection. He surveyed two of the construction crews that were doing sewer pipe bursting. His report had tallied up $350000 in potential fines if that had been a real inspection. It was very educational for everyone involved, but after reading the report my opinion was that you can't perform to the letter of the law and maintain a profit, there is going to be give and take, and you have to decide how much liability you are willing to assume. I am not saying to put anyone's life at risk, I am talking about the little things that would dollar a company to death.
I'm curious as to the little things that you are refering to. If the inspector tallied up that much, then your construction crews must have had some major safety issues. When it comes to the safety of our workers there is no take. ..it's give them what's needed to be safe..Little things can turn into big things rather quickly,then people start getting hurt.
The little things included operator manuels in Spanish, lack of ear plugs, lack of dust masks, and because we work in sewer restoration, lack of a way to sanitize our equipment. We were told we had to wash all equipment down after getting the tools out of the ditch. We had to incorporate daily and weekly safety talks. Which, don't misunderstand me these are all good things made to protect our workers and I am a firm believer in safety but it was an eye-opening experience when you think you are doing everything right and find out that to the letter of the law that you have barely scratched the surface. And granted, an actual inspection would probably not go that far into detail, because the guy was being paid to find everything, not just what OSHA would observe and probably cite us on. this happened last year and if I can find a copy of the report I will try to cite more examples of what I am talking about. As far as the company goes we have been trained by a local company in trenching procedures and confined space procedures as well as competent persons training. And the inspector said we would have to replace the entire cable on one of our winches because it was the wrong size and wrong load rating-the machine was brand new from the manufacturer, who do agree with in that case.:beatsme
Misery loves company... LOL: Hi Red Bank, Good question... and I don't know the answer. I see this stuff all the time, working for different agencies of the government, in the fire fighting arena. Conflicting regulations ... It's definitely hard to deal with.... And I'm sure I just helped you a whole bunch... LOL... ... :beatsme OCR
May 23, 2001 Mr. Dino V. Gigante 45 Wanders Drive Hingham, MA 02043 Re: CPL 2-0.124 ("Multi-Employer Citation Policy"); self-employed contractors Dear Mr. Gigante: This responds to your March 8, 2001, letter to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). We have paraphrased your questions below: Question 1: Can OSHA cite a self-employed individual working on a construction site for violations of OSHA construction standards? Answer: No. If a construction worker is truly self-employed — is not an employee — and has no employees working for him or her, OSHA has no authority to require that individual to abide by OSHA construction requirements. Question 2: What can be done to address unsafe practices by a self-employed individual? Answer: Although OSHA has no authority to issue citations to a self-employed construction worker (with no employees), where a general contractor has hired that individual to work at the site, the general contractor can, by contract, require that individual to abide by the practices set out in OSHA standards. In other words, OSHA's lack of compliance authority does not restrict the general contractor from instituting workplace safety requirements on the individual by contract. Note, though, that OSHA does not have the authority to compel the individual to abide by such contract requirements. OSHA construction requirements must be met by employers where employees are exposed to a hazard created by a self-employed worker. The extent of an employer's obligations regarding hazards created by others is explained in [CPL 02-00-124 (formerly CPL 2-0.124)] ("Multi-Employer Citation Policy") ======================================== OK, so OSHA can not cite an individual working for himself. So you are working as a sub-contractor and the prime gets cited for your non-compliance. You get canned immediately and the prime pays the citation. (unless he can beat it in court or on appeal) The prime will not hire you anymore for his projects, and he lets others know that you are prone to being not in compliance. No winner here. As I mentioned before, no one can meet every standard to every inspectors satisfaction. All regulations are subject to the inspectors interpretation. On most jobs, you will be required to meet regs from several entities. Again, there is no way to satisfy every one as some conflict no matter what. Then it becomes the competing agencies job to decide who has the better jurisdiction. I've been caught in that pig pen before. Even if you are working for yourself and there is no one else involved in the job, you can still be investigated by OSHA, IF, there is an injury or death on the site that may have been caused by you or your negligence. As most people that have an individual contractor perform work for them act as their own general contractor, I'd bet some money that OSHA could and would cite them. Construction and mining safety has to become a cultural backstay of your company be it a corporation with many employees or an individual working for himself. That means everyone takes his personal safety onto himself as a personal responsibility, but also everyone else's safety working on the job as well, whether they work for the same company or someone else. It has to be drilled into everyone constantly and employees that just don't get it, have to be let go. I'm of mixed minds concerning OSHA and MSHA. I'd like to think that all contractors and miners would act responsibility and work hard to ensure the safety of man and equipment. For sure job costs would be lower. But the bad apples spoiled the barrel for all of us unfortunately and what we have today is the result, a mixed bag of regulations of which some are good and some not so good. This is big brother looking over your shoulder all the time and there is no getting away from him. Sooner or later you will get inspected by someone, it may not be OSHA. Best bet is be as prepared as you can be in all aspects of job safety.
Canada created a new bill that became law a few years back. This law requires companies to practice due dilligence at the work place. Below is why this law was created. Its a shame workers have to die to make things happen. Why was Bill C-45 (Section 217.1 in the Criminal Code) created? Bill C-45, also known as the "Westray Bill", was created as a result of the 1992 Westray coal mining disaster in Nova Scotia where 26 miners were killed after methane gas ignited causing an explosion. Despite serious safety concerns raised by employees, union officials and government inspectors at the time, the company instituted few changes. Eventually, the disaster occurred. After the accident the police and provincial government failed to secure a conviction against the company or three of its managers. A Royal Commission of Inquiry was established to investigate the disaster. In 1998, the Royal Commission made 74 recommendations. The findings of this commission (in particular recommendation 73) were the movement that led to Bill C-45.