Hey all, I purchased a backhoe per this forums advice a few years ago and it was one of my better decisions. It saved me a 30k grading/Rd. building bill Backhoe I got is still going strong. Now I'm looking at the different options on a Dozer. What I'll be using it for is grading a home site, regrading logging rds., Cutting in some new 10' wide roads on property. The homesite is undisturbed ground on a 15-20 degree slope. I just need to level it meaning I will need to remove about 3-5 ' of dirt on high side. Area is about 60' x 40'. The size and models I've been looking at are the JD 450/550 and recently the komatsu D38P. After some reading it seems the JD's are great machines but are hard to work on for a novice. I've also read that a transmission job is 10k and difficult. As far as the komatsu...I've read they are good machines that are easier to work on. The clutches are easy to access, trans is separate from engine via driveshaft and so on.( I did read that this komatsu is just a dresser...would a different model komatsu be a better choice? There is a JD 550B available with rebuilt engine(40hrs), new injector pump,new radiator, new injectors,90percent undercarriage for 15k but isn't that kinda high? Any suggestions on a serviceable machine for a novice with do it yourself abilities? I am not brand oriented. Like most everyone, I'm just looking for a reliable small dozer that is designed to be a little more user friendly. Is there such a machine or are they all designed to make owners have to take to a pro? Thanks
If that's too long of a read then in short, Thanks for advice on backhoe purchase in the past. Now, what is the best brand and model small dozer (JD 450-550 size) ? Wanting something that is more easily serviced by myself than a pro.... JD, komatsu, case...? Thanks for any advice
Cat's like D3B's have reliable transmissions and don't leave Case dozers off your list. Case are generally less expensive and have some good reviews. Look at Case 550's. Have read that JD transmissions are very expensive to fix and some parts for older machines are discontinued. You might have to up your budget a bit but the 1st thing to look at is the undercarriage. Complete undercarriage would cost $6000- $8000 depending on what all you need. That's if you change it yourself. I think buying a dozer there can be more potential problems than buying a backhoe. Make sure to take someone knowledgeable to inspect any machines you're looking at.
Thanks for the info. I'll continue gathering info and such before I make any decision. One fella told.me.to get a big track loader for about the same price 12-15k. He said he does grading with a heavy loader with no issues breaking undisturbed ground... I guess that's an idea but I like the 6 way dozer blade for cutting into a hillside.Maybe if started.a road with my hoe to create a flat then I could finish with a.loader?
It's fairly easy to start a side hill cut with a loader and for a newbe it'll make the grey matter work but you'll get it done. That experience will come in handy on other jobs.
Personally I'd be looking for a d3c or d4c maybe even a hydro drive model lots of parts available and will be worth the same money down the road as you paided for it imo. Or a d8 because why not!!!!!
D3C's and newer look to be in a higher price bracket than the OP is looking.
What's your budget?
A JD 450C is a machine small enough to transport easily, work on and repair without too much specialized equipment but big enough to do real work. The loader version is more versatile than a dozer but the dozer will do grading much better. Full disclosure, I own a 450C track loader with backhoe attachment. There is very little that it can't do given time, like a swiss army knife, it can do almost anything, but a specialized tool can do the task better and more easily.
15k. I'm looking to use a dozer for maybe a year and then sell. After my grading and trail making I'd have no need for it. I'd consider spending a little more like 18k, if it meant a quicker sale later
deere is more expensive to fix but good resale / cat good machine great resale,,,, but under carriage is the MOST important part when buying or selling a dozer
Junk machines are going for that right now.
As mentioned, There is a JD 550B available with rebuilt engine(40hrs), new injector pump,new radiator, new injectors,90percent undercarriage, no leaks, new alt., for 15k but isn't that kinda high? Also, is 550B trans same as 450 and expensive to fix 8-10k? Around here I'm seeing a lot of Cat D3B dozers in good condition 5-6k hrs for 14-20k. Are D3B's as good a choice as D3C's? That's if in good shape with good UC ....
I ran all of the above mentioned dozers doing finish work through the years. They are all good machines. Provided they have 6 way blades. I hated Komatsu's of any size. I won't derail your thread with the reasons I hated them. My all time favorite was a 450H John Deere. Great balance and easy to operate. If I were you NC, I would buy that 550 in heart-beat. 90% undercarridge would be hard to find on a lot of used dozers. The engine work done on it a big plus. Pictures would help the members to give you better advice !
Would be good to check on parts availability on the 550B. Yes, pics would be great. My former neighbor had a 555 loader I ran a little bit. It was my 1st time running a crawler. It was a nice machine and had real low hours. I think he bought it new or almost new and also had a backhoe for it. He ended up trading it in on a good used 755 loader for demolition work. I did a bunch of welding on the 755. It got abused pretty good. Have read the trannies are very expensive to fix on the 550 series so would have that checked out really good. Also who is saying the undercarriage is 90%? The only sure way to tell is by having the undercarriage measured by an undercarriage specialist. One persons 90% may be accurate or may be only 50% when it's actually measured. The Cat D3B and D3C are almost the same thing. There's also a Series II D3C but I think most of the changes from the D3B are fairly minor. The engine may have 5 more H.P. or the sheet metal or gauges are changed. The Cat's have pretty reliable transmissions. Cat is usually better for parts support.
Here's the one I'm considering. 84 JD 550B available with rebuilt engine(40 hrs.) new injector pump,new radiator, new injectors,90percent undercarriage, no leaks, new alt., for 15k
Can't see the undercarriage well enough to see if it's like new. Pads look good and rails look to be pretty thick. Would be curious to know what's going on with the air intake coming out the hood, especially with a rebuilt engine??? There's supposed to be a pre-cleaner assembly on the intake. The way it is would let water/rain in. Will the seller let you take oil samples of the transmission and other other compartments? With supposedly 90% undercarriage, rebuilt engine and other new items, it seems the price should maybe be a little higher. Just the air cleaner deal would make me suspicious about what else has been neglected. Does the seller have the engine side panels and receipts for the engine, rad, etc., and undercarriage? If you're doing anything around tree's or bush, you need the side panels. How sloppy is the blade and does it look like it's been greased on a regular basis? Replacing pins and bushings costs money too if you want to do more precise grading. It could be a decent machine but get everything looked over and checked out really good by someone experienced like a JD tech.
I just finished talking to him. I asked about filters and fluids for any other systems. He said he hasn't done anything as far as those items. Claims all look clean and machine operates as it should. He also said the belly pan was off when he got it and still is. He installed engine and didn't install pan so he could look for leaks and such for first 30-40hrs. He says some grade 5-8 bolts will work but I will need nuts that are missing from pan indentions? It has a squeaky top roller but it's included with dozer. He going to send pics of c- frame,yoke,tensioners and hrs
Has long has he owned it? Did he have the engine rebuilt or just installed it and does it have a warranty and/or paper work? If nuts need to be tacked on to mount belly pan shouldn't be a big deal but you need the belly pan(s). He sounds a little lazy. Leaks should show up pretty quick if there are any on a rebuilt engine. Did you ask if he had the side panels?
Fixing to ask about panels,air cleaner ... He's 71 and built the engine. He says all the right things about a rebuild and claims he has worked on them since the 70's. Knows all the terms and will tell you about the build for as long as you'll let him. Here are some more pics he sent
More
So he's avoiding sending you the pictures needed to see undercarriage condition. I'd question if he's doing that so you cannot see the real condition. If he's a dozer expert he knows what pictures to take. Ask him for close up pictures of the sides and underneath the chains. Also a closer picture of the sprocket.
My Komatsu D39P-1 (LGP) was a good machine, 6 way blade and two joysticks. Perkins diesel, heavy enough for good work. After I was done with it I sold it to my BIL for his ranch, he hired an operator to use it to clear lots of the under brush on his 500 acres. As a novice operator I found it easy to operate thanks to the joysticks.
Y Yep, sure seems like it. I'm going to pass on it. It takes 20 minutes for him to shut up long enough to ask a question. If I rebuilt a motor I would definitely check and or change all fluids. His last message was incoherent. "Tell those coffee cans to drip water. I didn't ask for a dust storm panels lost receipts probably gone paid cash for radiator." He was talking about y'all and any advice your giving me. Hah!
Well in todays HE market $15k is not that much, well used (read abused) skid steers from Sunbelt are going for more so you're going to have to do your homework. How far away is the JD dozer you are looking at? Might be worth the drive to see in person.
At the very least he should clean the undercarrage before taking photos of it.
1.5 hrs away. I'm done with it. I don't believe the threw away receipts story. Also no belly pan or side panels... Thanks for the advice and I'll keep looking.
Here's what I know about old JD crawlers "their mother was a farm tractor" that tractor undercarriage was probably more than 50% worn ,the track frame is welded to the hard bar ,the blade has worn thru ,looks like the cutting edges are past needing turned. Undercarriage is usually graded as a % worn with is actually a time measurement. So stating 90% good is not possible. Bob
Here are better clarity pics but still avoiding the angles a buyer would want to see...
1 more
Don't let the hour meter reading influence your buying decision. It would be a miracle for it to be accurate on a machine that old. IMHO !
Thanks, I won't. I've moved on to another. By the way is this a good condition sprocket? Most bad ones I've seen have a sharp tip. Most good have a flat tip. This one's kind of odd to me. I dunno?
That is a decent looking sprocket with a lot of life left in it. The tracks look decent in the photos. They are adjusted good and I can see a lot of adjustment left in front of the idlers. The grouser bars have a lot of height on them to.
First off the machine is a 1985 and not a 1984. It's even stamped "85". 1985 is the 1st year for the 550B's and the serial number confirms it is a 1985. A simple detail like this makes me think the owner either hasn't had the machine for very long or doesn't have much clue about what he owns. It may be a decent machine for the money being asked. It seems really odd that if he did the work on the engine, and was planning to sell the machine, he wouldn't keep the receipts. The belly pan and side panels are gone as in no where to be found? The sprockets look to be ITM and in pretty good shape. Some aftermarket sprockets come with that shape and aren't flat across the tops of the teeth. Idlers look new. The rails look fairly thick BUT it also looks like the roller flanges have been hitting on the pin bosses. Rails appear to go pretty far up into the rollers in the last pic. showing the sprocket. Possibly needs new bottom rollers. Another thing that looks odd from what I can see, is the rails may not be the same. JD rails don't have a middle support on the links and from what it looks like to me, one side has JD style rails and the other side has rails with a middle support. Would need some better close up pics. of the rails, rollers and bushings on the rails (both sides). Would be interesting to know the definition of new (90% good) undercarriage??? No receipts for the undercarriage either? As far as the hour meter, if he's claiming it's accurate, counter with it's gone around once. If it is close to actual hours the machine appears to have had a hard life. The engine shouldn't need a rebuild at 4200 hours but that could be close to when it would need new undercarriage. Might be worth a very thorough inspection by someone knowledgeable. Like CM said 15K doesn't get you much in the way of a dozer.
Rails appear to have lots of meat on them but are different. If they were replaced possibly 1st supplier only had one rail in stock? screenshot_20210719-143457-png.242566 (720×1560) (HeavyEquipmentForums screenshot_20210720-133027-png.242609 (720×1560) (HeavyEquipmentForums
So the dozer we've been talking about looks pretty good as far as pics provide? Yep my mistake. He said "85". He also said when ordering parts by the serial number that JD told him it was a 94 by the VIN. He bought it to fix about 1 yr ago. Says he's 71 and a little thorough (slow) but rebuilt it bottom to top. Also bragged about changing some rubber factory lines at injectors with all metal fittings because the rubber ones can dry rot and leak. Also said he got the higher dollar radiator,starter and installed a reman'd head. This is all over my head but just stuff he mentioned. Belly pan is there just not installed and needs nuts tacked back in the pan. Side panels are gone.... Hrs gauge doesn't seem to be right side up either. First I need to figure out what rails are I understand shoes/pads/track rollers, top roller, idler.......and that's about it.
You can get somewhat of a feel for the used equipment market by looking at sold auction prices. I've bought equipment from Ironplanet.com with no surprises, that's where I bought my Komatsu dozer. Some used equipment is selling for crazy prices but maybe you can find some older auction prices.
Psst Its pictures of two different tractors. Bob
yea but that sprocket is on a different tractor and the tracks on the original tractor are sealed tracks and the pins and bushings are better that half wore out. Bob
Rails are the track chains. If the pics. are of 2 different dozers, then I wouldn't trust much of anything the seller is telling you. I'll have to look at bigger pics on the computer and try to see if they are of different machines. It would be odd to find two very similar dozers in almost the same shape.
Stevey Wonder could of seen that. Bob
Funny how you weren't the 1st one to point any differences. It's pretty easy after something else different is pointed out. Stevie Wonder can at least spell his name right. Not sure what machine it is that has the big nut holding the sprocket on but it isn't the same machine. I doubt the OP is interested in your petty BS but regardless, he's probably smart to walk away from what ever machine that seller has. It's not a good sign when the seller sends you pics. of a different machine than you were looking at.
That sprocket looks like one for rubber tracks by the shape of the teeth. some one may have put on steel tracks. Bob
Just a heads up. All initial pics are from original dozer I was considering.... ******Last single thumbnail pic was a random sprocket I posted from a case 350. Just trying to learn what a good sprocket should look like. If I find another dozer to discuss I'll just start another thread. Thanks for everyone's help.
Thanks for clearing up the sprocket confusion, NC. Are you going to pass on the Deere ?
A friend and I plan to go take a look in person if it's available this Sunday. Friend is very knowledgeable.
You should have mentioned the last pic. was from a different machine. It had nothing to do with the JD in question. Some sprockets come flat across the tips and some don't. Just depends on who made them.
Sorry.... thought I did when I said to previous post "I won't be fooled by the hrs gauge and that I had moved on to another."....(bulldozer to be assumed.) I corrected the thread a few post above your pointing it out.
It was just confusing what machine the pic. of the sprocket was from. Sellers come in all types. There was a guy here that used to find crawler loaders (mostly smaller ones with backhoes) and claimed they were all left over from when he closed his excavating business. They were all in "premium" condition. Someone on this forum had asked about one of them and the ad seemed oddly familiar. I told him to ask the seller for the maintainence records and manuals for this premium machine he supposedly purchased new. Response was juuust a little suspect, "all the maintainence records and manuals got thrown out when the business was shut down". You kept this as your favorite machine from the fleet, knowing you would eventually sell it, but threw out all the records and manuals that would certainly help you get the most money for it. Yeah, don't think so, what else are you lying about?
Yep, some people can look you in the eye and lie.
Just respond with, I'll believe you this time but never lie again. If they ask if you're calling them a liar, say no, I said I'll believe you.
PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD AS I STARTED A NEW LESS CONFUSING ONE. THANKS
Not yelling
Thread closed at the OP's request, to eliminate confusion. Further discussion here: HeavyEquipmentForums